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alberchico
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Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:29 am

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/15...ant-2022-world-cup-mistake?cc=5901

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/f...2022-but-what-about-discrimination

Man is this guy some piece of work. Now that the English FA and other leagues have made their position clear it will be interesting to see how FIFA pressures them to change their mind on the tournament schedule.
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srbmod
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:47 am

Considering that traditionally the World Cup has been held during the off-season of the majority of leagues in the world (MLS is one of the few leagues whose season is scheduled during that time.), it would create issues in the vast majority of leagues since they follow the traditional Fall-Spring schedule. Some of the European leagues are the most popular leagues in the world and the UEFA Champions League is a widely watched competition as well. Leagues are not going to want to lose their best players for the better part of a month for the World Cup, nor would leagues want to have to compete with the World Cup for viewers. These leagues would be unlikely to shut down for a month either, as they would either have to extend the length of the season or try to squeeze in those lost matches into what can be a pretty tight schedule for some clubs.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:26 am

The video answers that concerns by saying that countries in equatorial regions should not be at a disadvantage because of weather, and that Europe is not the centre of the world's football anymore.

While that might be true, I don't see how it applies to Qatar. It's hardly a big football nation to start with, and, let's be frank here, the only reason they got to host the thing in the first place is the insane amounts of money they made rain on FIFA's heads...

There is no more reason to host a football championship in the middle of a scorching desert than there is hosting an F1 GP there. No fans, no history, just a desperate need for attention.

And in this case, it's more than political. There are also a lot of economic interests in major European championships during that season, and I can see FIFA being under a lot of fire from clubs, state coaches who won't be able to get their players, broadcast networks who will have to choose between a championship and a World Cup happening at the same time, sponsors, etc.

Serves the FIFA right.
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:59 am

I was gob-smacked when Qatar was awarded the WC. The very concept of playing top-level, competitive football in 40-45C is simply insane. There are many other unanswered questions relating to the fans as well. I have spent a fair bit of time in Qatar and it isn't anywhere as 'relaxed' as Dubai or Oman. I can imagine a lot of issues with large groups of fans who've had more than a drink or two.

What astonishes me is that this issue wasn't dealt with as part of Qatar's bid and the voting process.

All I wish is that FIFA's voting for awarding WCs was totally transparent with each round of voting televised so we can see who is voting for whom. There's every reason to do it and no reason not to. Meanwhile, I need to take my unicorn out for some fairy water.
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
The video answers that concerns by saying that countries in equatorial regions should not be at a disadvantage because of weather, and that Europe is not the centre of the world's football anymore.

It might not be politically correct in the new World order, but the fact is that Europe is the centre of World football in terms of the best players and where all the TV money is centred on. 19 out of the 20 ruchest teams are European, almost all the best paid players play in a small number of European leagues (UK, Germany, Spain, Italy & France) and its where the global audiences are. In sport money matters and if the sponsors will get what they want.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

That's better than having a defiant bladder in the WC
Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
The video answers that concerns by saying that countries in equatorial regions should not be at a disadvantage because of weather, and that Europe is not the centre of the world's football anymore.

Ok then let's have the WC in Siberia next time! We wouldn't want to discriminate against those Northern native people who love football so much!

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
While that might be true, I don't see how it applies to Qatar. It's hardly a big football nation to start with, and, let's be frank here, the only reason they got to host the thing in the first place is the insane amounts of money they made rain on FIFA's heads...

  

It's such a transparent money grab...

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
I have spent a fair bit of time in Qatar and it isn't anywhere as 'relaxed' as Dubai or Oman. I can imagine a lot of issues with large groups of fans who've had more than a drink or two.

I thought Qatar was also having a touch of popular rebellion against the royals, no? Add to that this influx of infidels and the spam could really hit the fan!
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oly720man
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:52 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
spam could really hit the fan

Can you get halal spam?


Anyway, looking over the bones of this, the original plan was to have air conditioned stadia, but then that was shelved

Qatar’s winning bid to stage the World Cup was partly based on the assurance that it would build high-tech air-conditioned stadia to keep temperatures at manageable levels.

But this plan has now been dismissed by the architect tasked with building one of the most important arenas.
John Barrow of Populous, the company which is designing the Sports City stadium in the capital Doha, says that air-conditioning on such a scale is ‘notoriously unsustainable.’

‘We are doing away with all the air conditioning kit that is going to cost a fortune to run,’ Mr Barrow has told delegates at the International Football Arena conference in Zurich.

‘I think you can be more clever.

‘It is about air movement, moisture in the air and it is about the temperature at the right time of day.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...onditioned-stadiums-dismissed.html


So....... once they win the bid, all the air-con is too expensive to run. Hmmmm.
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Mir
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:06 pm

A wonderful quote from Blatter:

"If we maintain, rigidly, the status quo, then a FIFA World Cup can never be played in countries that are south of the equator or indeed near the equator."

Umm, where was the last World Cup played? And where is the next World Cup going to be played? And has Sepp Blatter looked at a map recently? And does he realize that Qatar is not even south of the Tropic of Cancer, never mind the Equator?

Quoting oly720man (Reply 6):
So....... once they win the bid, all the air-con is too expensive to run. Hmmmm.

Did anyone really not see that one coming?  

-Mir
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Aesma
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:31 pm

Too expensive and Qatar don't mix.

I'd say it's technically very complicated, since the stadium is wide open. You can't blow ice cold air either or people will get sick.
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srbmod
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:43 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
All I wish is that FIFA's voting for awarding WCs was totally transparent with each round of voting televised so we can see who is voting for whom. There's every reason to do it and no reason not to. Meanwhile, I need to take my unicorn out for some fairy water.

The rumors and speculation of Qatar "buying" the 2022 World Cup started as soon as it was announced and will continue to do so even after the 2022 World Cup. FIFA should look at the IOC bidding scandal back in the late 90s that led to 10 members of the IOC being expelled, 10 more being sanctioned, and Salt Lake City's organizing committee for the 2002 Winter Olympics had a major housecleaning. It also gave the impression that the Olympics were being awarded to the bid that bribed the IOC the best (Something some people seem to thing was the case when Atlanta was awarded the 1996 Summer Olympics.). Qatar is not exactly a hotbed for international sports and them being awarded the 2022 World Cup would be like somewhere like Iceland or Madagascar being awarded them.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
Considering that traditionally the World Cup has been held during the off-season of the majority of leagues in the world (MLS is one of the few leagues whose season is scheduled during that time.)

Majority is a dangerous world because it can imply more than it should. In this case, you might be right, but barely, as South American leagues and several African leagues play during the Northern summer months. I find Blatter's concerns for non-European countries laughable at best as I think he cares more about his ego and can't bring himself to admit he created a gigantic mess.

His comment about the cup being "awarded to a nation that really, really wants to host it, a nation that has the financial means to do it without neglecting other societal obligations" shows just how out-of-touch he is. Which of the upcoming World Cups fits these criteria exactly?
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romeobravo
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:13 pm

The major footballing nations should boycott it and hold their own tournament.

The whole thing is an absolute farce and the weather is just a small part of it. No offense to anyone from Qatar but Qatar is a small plastic little sandpit with only a million odd people. It has laws and culture that are absolutely 100% not compliant with the behaviour exhibited at football tournaments by the fans. Finally, it has absolutely no footballing significance whatsoever currently being ranked 111th and having never qualified for a WC. I struggle to think of a country less suited to holding a world cup....In fact, you don't even need to investigate into bribery, you can conclude it from process of elimination.

Blatter should be impeached.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:34 am

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 11):
The major footballing nations should boycott it and hold their own tournament.

Or maybe send a "B" team of players pieced together from the reserve squads.... International players that play in Major League Soccer would likely not be affected by a January World Cup since MLS would be in their off-season at that time (unless those players are playing elsewhere on loan during the MLS off-season.)
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:18 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
I was gob-smacked when Qatar was awarded the WC. The very concept of playing top-level, competitive football in 40-45C is simply insane. There are many other unanswered questions relating to the fans as well. I have spent a fair bit of time in Qatar and it isn't anywhere as 'relaxed' as Dubai or Oman. I can imagine a lot of issues with large groups of fans who've had more than a drink or two.

My thoughts entirely. Between the climate making on-field play challenging, and culture and law making off-field play challenging, not to mention that the whole of Qatar can fit in your back pocket, means that this was an illogical decision from the second it was entirely.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
"If we maintain, rigidly, the status quo, then a FIFA World Cup can never be played in countries that are south of the equator or indeed near the equator."

But "maintain, rigidity, the status quo" wasn't the alternative to Qatar  

If the bids were Germany, Italy and Qatar, then sure, let's break the status quo and expand the reach of the game.

But, ignoring Japan and Korea who co-hosted in 2002, the other bids were USA and Australia. Both have a more accommodating climate than Qatar, can actually put on a good show and have a real "tour" around the country, and will be more welcoming to visitors.

More than anything else, Australia (and New Zealand) and USA (and Canada) are infant soccer markets, where the game has relatively little exposure and following. It would therefore be good for the game to have exposure to new markets so that potential new fans can get swept up in the World Cup "fever"

I think FIFA seriously dropped the ball on this one.
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:38 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
I think FIFA seriously dropped the ball on this one.

I think they're laughing all the way to the bank...
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
But, ignoring Japan and Korea who co-hosted in 2002, the other bids were USA and Australia. Both have a more accommodating climate than Qatar, can actually put on a good show and have a real "tour" around the country, and will be more welcoming to visitors.

No, Australia's south of the equator, it could never host a major summer sporting event.

-Mir
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SA7700
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:42 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
No, Australia's south of the equator, it could never host a major summer sporting event

With all due respect, what is your point? South Africa hosted during the Northern Hemisphere summer and did a pretty good job in doing so. The next SWC will also be in the Southern Hemisphere (Brazil).

Although not peak Southern Hemisphere summer (September), Sydney hosted the 2000 Summer Olympic Games and did an excellent job in doing so - in fact the best in years.

Thanks and take care,

SA7700
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:04 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 10):
Qatar is not exactly a hotbed for international sports and them being awarded the 2022 World Cup would be like somewhere like Iceland or Madagascar being awarded them.

Assuming that, no matter which country was hosting this, 90% (or 99% for the olympics) of the participants and spectators are non-native it makes sense thast the country most able to host this is the one with the best international transport links (unlike Iceland or Madagascar). Go A380!!!
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:17 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
it could never host a major summer sporting event

I assume that was a joke?

As said, the last one and next one are in the Southern Hemisphere, not to mention we have also hosted the Rugby World Cup and Olympics in our winter/spring.
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 16):

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
No, Australia's south of the equator, it could never host a major summer sporting event

With all due respect, what is your point? South Africa hosted during the Northern Hemisphere summer and did a pretty good job in doing so. The next SWC will also be in the Southern Hemisphere (Brazil).

I believe Mir is saying that sarcastically, referencing:

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):

A wonderful quote from Blatter:

"If we maintain, rigidly, the status quo, then a FIFA World Cup can never be played in countries that are south of the equator or indeed near the equator."

If major footballing bodies start threatening to boycott the WC, and sponsors start threatening FIFA, and they drop Qatar, how much time would they need to go through a new set of candidates and a new bid? Or would they just award the WC to a back-up nation, that has most the infrastructure already with no bidding?

I hope everything gets sorted fast. I do enjoy the WC, however, I do not want it conflicting with the great European leagues and Champions League.

-CXfirst
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:23 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 19):

Hopefully they would save the cost of re-bidding and just give it to the USA. They came second to Qatar in the original bid, and have the infrastructure to host it tomorrow
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:32 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
"If we maintain, rigidly, the status quo, then a FIFA World Cup can never be played in countries that are south of the equator or indeed near the equator."

What a moron.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Umm, where was the last World Cup played? And where is the next World Cup going to be played? And has Sepp Blatter looked at a map recently? And does he realize that Qatar is not even south of the Tropic of Cancer, never mind the Equator?

He's a jerk and playing on emotion. Even playing in an Equatorial country would be more hospitable than Qatar.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
You can't blow ice cold air either or people will get sick.

That's not true.
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:57 am

I am surprised that Qatar claims they don't have the money or technology to air condition the stadiums. We have enclosed major facilities in far south locations like Houston, New Orleans, Dallas, San Antonio, and two in Phoenix.

The World Cup already had its first indoor game in 1994 in the Pontiac Silverdome near Detroit.
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N1120A
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:25 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 22):

Not only would it need to be indoors, but they have to make grass work.
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:38 am

Didnt China bid? Its Asia's turn and where else than China should it be?

My secret dream is otherwise a combined Malaysia/Thailand bid. Imagine 200.000 supporters descend on Bangkok. There wouldn't be a single sane football supporter that would miss the enormous party that would be. And the Thais/Malaysians are football crazy. I can watch more games on tele there than in Europe.

I wanted Australia to get it. With Australia's demography having changed so much over the last 20 years it would have meant football overtaking the two other codes and being the most supported sport in Aussie. It would have been all us recent immigrants, Europeans and East Asians that would have seen to that.

In China Basketball competes with Football. Sending the worlds biggest sporting event to china would be massive and very good for the sport itself.

The US, nah it was held their in 1994 and most fans were very disappointed with the stadiums, the locations and the distances. They should not be allowed to host another WC until they sort proper football stadiums in good locations. And yes those locations need fan-friendly infrastructure around them. Not a huge parking place.
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SA7700
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:25 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 24):
Didnt China bid? Its Asia's turn and where else than China should it be?

How could it be Asia's turn when the continental rotation policy was abolished in October 2007?   That being said I would have supported Australia or the USA's bid to host the 2022 SWC, instead of Qatar.

Regards and take care,

SA7700
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srbmod
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Not only would it need to be indoors, but they have to make grass work.

They could always build stadiums along the lines of University Of Phoenix Stadium in the US, Veltins-Arena in Germany (which hosted 5 matches during the 2006 World Cup), the Sapporo Dome in Japan (which will be one of the soccer venues for the 2020 Olympics) and hosted 3 matches during the 2002 World Cup) and Gelredome in the Netherlands and have the pitch on a movable platform.

When the US hosted the 1994 World Cup, putting a grass pitch in a domed stadium was still a new thing. Here in Atlanta, the Georgia Dome has hosted several international friendlies (as well as recently hosting two quarterfinal matches of the 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup) on a grass surface laid on top of the stadium's artificial FieldTurf.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:39 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 24):
The US, nah it was held their in 1994 and most fans were very disappointed with the stadiums, the locations and the distances. They should not be allowed to host another WC until they sort proper football stadiums in good locations. And yes those locations need fan-friendly infrastructure around them. Not a huge parking place.
And yes I was there...

What do you mean by good locations? They're not going to build brand new, WC specific stadiums in the middle of the city now to satisfy some ridiculous demand. And there are plenty of new stadiums in the US that have been built since 1994 that can be adapted for WC games. And what fan-friendly infrastructure do you need around them? The main stadium in the last WC was built on a dirt field in the middle of nowhere, while the other stadium in Joburg was in the middle of the ghetto, with fans being shuttled from the park and ride locations under police escort. Any WC in the US would be significantly better than that.
And yes I was there...
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:02 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):
Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 22):
We have enclosed major facilities in far south locations like Houston, New Orleans, Dallas, San Antonio, and two in Phoenix.

The World Cup already had its first indoor game in 1994 in the Pontiac Silverdome near Detroit.

I think the challenges aren't exactly the same.
Putting a lid on a stadium has been done, but doing so in a scorching desert while avoiding to turn it into a giant easy-bake oven is a different matter. The temperature differential would be much greater than anything done in temperate latitudes.

They could always play in the evening, after sunset.
Of course that would pretty much mean losing the entire Asian viewership...
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srbmod
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:41 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 28):
I think the challenges aren't exactly the same.
Putting a lid on a stadium has been done, but doing so in a scorching desert while avoiding to turn it into a giant easy-bake oven is a different matter. The temperature differential would be much greater than anything done in temperate latitudes.

Phoenix, Arizona is in a desert region. The average high in Phoenix during the summer months is well over 100F, which is close to the average highs during the same time of the year in Doha. There are two domed stadiums in the Phoenix area (one is used by the baseball team and the other by their NFL team) and both of them get used during the heat of the summer months.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:54 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 29):
Quoting francoflier (Reply 28):
I think the challenges aren't exactly the same.
Putting a lid on a stadium has been done, but doing so in a scorching desert while avoiding to turn it into a giant easy-bake oven is a different matter. The temperature differential would be much greater than anything done in temperate latitudes.

Phoenix, Arizona is in a desert region. The average high in Phoenix during the summer months is well over 100F, which is close to the average highs during the same time of the year in Doha. There are two domed stadiums in the Phoenix area (one is used by the baseball team and the other by their NFL team) and both of them get used during the heat of the summer months.

I would also add in that University of Phoenix Stadium roof is Birdair fabric and Chase Field is a steel roof. Also, the Adventuredome theme park at Circus Circus in Las Vegas is a huge glass dome and they are able to keep that cool during the summer.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 29):
Phoenix, Arizona is in a desert region. The average high in Phoenix during the summer months is well over 100F, which is close to the average highs during the same time of the year in Doha.

A comparison with Phoenix isn't appropriate, Houston would be closer. Qatar may be near a desert, but it is surrounded in three directions by the Persian Gulf. Phoenix's average high humidity in the summer is around 30%, Doha's is around 80%, and on top of that, it is actually hotter longer than Phoenix!

Doha doesn't cool off in the summer, even at night. Between June and September, there is a near 100% probability of the temperature being in the 85+ range at any given time day or night. At its hottest, Phoenix reaches an 80% probability during July and August.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
They came second to Qatar in the original bid, and have the infrastructure to host it tomorrow

What FIFA would need to do is give do-or-die deadlines to hosting countries a year or two in advance of the tournament, but most countries would push back, claiming that it is unfair to demand that they be ready so far ahead and that they have ample time to fix any shortcoming.

The result is that, unless the conditions are really catastrophic, by the time FIFA runs out of patience, it is too late to move the tournament anyway. Look at Brazil, they're clearly not ready and have already admitted some of the promised infrastructure improvements will not be ready for the 2014 cup, but a year out is already too little time to find another host country.

It's not just about having the right number of stadiums with the right capacity and the right grass, it's practice facilities for the teams, hotels, media centers, transportation, etc...

No country in the world has the idle infrastructure ready to be put to use to host a World Cup in a pinch.
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blueflyer
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:11 pm

If Dubai can have indoor skiing all year long, Doha can have air-conditioned indoor stadiums without any problem whatsoever, still has plenty of time to either build them from scratch or remodel existing facilities, and certainly isn't concerned about the cost.

The conclusion is that if FIFA is talking about changing the dates of the tournament rather than building indoor stadiums, it is because FIFA really does not like indoor stadiums, even though they have been used on a few occasions before.

Why that is, I do not know, but FIFA has a long-standing preference for open-roof facilities.
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Marcus
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:59 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 31):
No country in the world has the idle infrastructure ready to be put to use to host a World Cup in a pinch.

I think the US and a few European countries already have the needed insfrastructure for a WC, they would have to work with the sports leagues already using those facilities but the stadiums are definetly there.
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:02 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 24):
The US, nah it was held their in 1994 and most fans were very disappointed with the stadiums, the locations and the distances. They should not be allowed to host another WC until they sort proper football stadiums in good locations. And yes those locations need fan-friendly infrastructure around them. Not a huge parking place.
And yes I was there...

Yeah, I guess they were disappointed so much that the '94 WC was the most attended in history. While I will admit that some of the facilities were not exactly first rate it did not stop the fans from coming.

And since that World Cup, over 20 new NFL stadiums have been built most of which are easily capable of hosting footie matches with capacities in excess of 70K, most notably Jerry's Place in Arlington and the New Meadowlands.

And yes, I was there too (Dallas and Orlando)
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:05 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 34):
While I will admit that some of the facilities were not exactly first rate it did not stop the fans from coming.

Exactly. Facilities are only a part of the equation. Even if stadiums aren't the best ever, fans only spend a relatively tiny amount of time in them, compared to the time they spend being basically tourists in the host country.
Most world cup spectators make the WC a reason to go and have a nice holiday in a faraway destination.
And there is a lot more to do and see in the US (or many other places) that in Qatar and its one city...

I expect a lot of these fans to be turning around in circles for weeks between the games they plan on watching.
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scbriml
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:28 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 28):
They could always play in the evening, after sunset.

I've arrived at Doha in July at 1am and the temperature is still well over 30C.
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CXfirst
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:20 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 28):
They could always play in the evening, after sunset.

It's not just the game itself. One of the great things about WC, is the fan zones before and after games, and throughout the tournament. 40+ degrees for fans will also be problematic, and totally kill off the pre-game atmosphere.

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romeobravo
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:58 am

Can you imagine being hungover in 40 degree heat?   
 
bill142
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:31 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
I think FIFA seriously dropped the ball on this one.

FFA dropped the ball by playing it above board. Doesn't help you have meglomanics like Andrew Demetriou who aren't willing to cooperate.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
Hopefully they would save the cost of re-bidding and just give it to the USA. They came second to Qatar in the original bid, and have the infrastructure to host it tomorrow

They should let 2022 bid again, at FIFAs expense, instead of giving it to 2nd place. In my biased opinion, Australia is the better choice.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:53 am

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 38):
Can you imagine being hungover in 40 degree heat?

Don´t worry. You won´t get any drinks anyway. And better not be pished, I´m quite sure that the police of Qatar will take offense. After all Qatar is still a quite conservative Muslim country, supporting the Muslim Brothers in the Middle East (who are the Muslim equivalent of ultraconservative Catholics).

Jan
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MillwallSean
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:33 pm

What i dont understand is how does Blatter plan to handle Israel qualifying?
Israeli clubs have decent support, all from the ultra socialist of hapoel Tel Aviv and their hammer and sickle tifos to the ultranationalists of Beitar Jerusalem that would descend upon Doha. Arriving in Star of David coloured ElAl and Israir charters. Hilarious sights. Israel has proper football fans too and they know how to create atmospheres and drink.

And how about 200.000 or so European fans that consume on average 14 lagers ie beers a day (figures from the WC in Germany)

This cant take place in Qatar, everyone knows and understands this, but the FIFA was bribed and somehow the people cant rectify their mistake. As long as Blatter is on his post this will continue.

I hope Blatter is gone in time for this WC to be moved.

Quoting TIA (Reply 27):
What do you mean by good locations? They're not going to build brand new, WC specific stadiums in the middle of the city now to satisfy some ridiculous demand. And there are plenty of new stadiums in the US that have been built since 1994 that can be adapted for WC games. And what fan-friendly infrastructure do you need around them? The main stadium in the last WC was built on a dirt field in the middle of nowhere, while the other stadium in Joburg was in the middle of the ghetto, with fans being shuttled from the park and ride locations under police escort. Any WC in the US would be significantly better than that.
And yes I was there...

The problem with the US is that they build stadiums that cater to another type of spectator than what ordinary football fans want. We dont want a stadium surrounded by enormous parkingspace (where seriously people sit in sunchairs and BBQ!!!) and no public transport. We dont want a stadium where there is a trillion of different fastfood is available and where million of food sales people run down the aisles in the middle of the game. Thats not football, thats entertainment. the US stadiums just dont fit with football they fit with gridiron and American gridiron supporters and surprise surprise the stadoiums are built for gridiron teams and supporters. tTese supporters like to see a play then wait 3 minutes before next play. In the meantime they can chew on sausage, drink waterd down lager and eat some popcorn all while they watch cheerleaders show nice bodies and entertainment on giant screens. Compare that with football supporters that want to stand up, sing and support their team.
US stadiums are 100% opposite to what football is about and it caters to an audience that doesnt have anything in common with football supporters.

I found the WC in South Africa awesome. the people there were all into it (the blacks at least) and the entire country spoke football, football and football. Sure the vuvuzuelas were a pain in the arse but thats African football support and it belonged there.
is police escort to or from a stadium something we fans arent used to or see as strange?  
Youre not a football fan attending to many games I take it...

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 34):
Yeah, I guess they were disappointed so much that the '94 WC was the most attended in history. While I will admit that some of the facilities were not exactly first rate it did not stop the fans from coming.

Oki so you werent there so i can understand you didnt see or feel what was missing. the WC was a plastic WC. Soulless. People came to be entertained. these werent football fans these were spctators that took ina game, ate candy and enjoyed themselves rather than the football. The ones that wanted to be entertained and not the true football fans the ones that create atmospheres and make football the unique sport it is. The fans that will show at another WC in the US are the same ones. That in itself should be enough to ensure we never see another WC in the USA.
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romeobravo
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:08 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 40):
Don´t worry. You won´t get any drinks anyway. And better not be pished, I´m quite sure that the police of Qatar will take offense.

I thought they were going to relax that laws for the tournament?

It'll be the final nail in the coffin if they don't. Football fans like to drink in vast quantities. It's just what they do.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 11):
Finally, it has absolutely no footballing significance whatsoever currently being ranked 111th and having never qualified for a WC.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that just because a country is "insignificant" in a particular discipline ought to mean that that country shouldn't host a tournament for that discipline.

While I am likewise concerned as to how Qatar even won the 2022 WC bid, its place in the FIFA rankings should be irrelevant to its capability to host the tournament. Otherwise, we'd only see the WC in countries with "hardcore" football, and the more football will be centralized in those countries to the detriment of countries trying to develop their football (like mine).
 
romeobravo
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 43):
I'm sorry, but I don't think that just because a country is "insignificant" in a particular discipline ought to mean that that country shouldn't host a tournament for that discipline.

Obviously i am not saying that. However, it should be a factor.
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:36 pm

Qatar could turn out to be a disaster, and who knows what will happen between now and then.

Some would say that the USA to host in 2022 would be bad. I disagree. Several stadiums could be used that are in urban areas, for example Baltimore, Philadelphia, Seattle are outdoor stadiums in or close to and accessible to mass transit and areas of entertainment, restaurants, etc. . MetLIfe in New Jersey has heavy rail service and will have a shopping mall/entertainment center adjacent to it. Some large college football stadiums could be used. Timing of the WC events in late July-early August would mean minimum interference with our NFL and College football.

My idea for the USA would be early rounds around the USA, in the LA area, Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Miami and NY/NJ. Intermediate rounds would be concentrated in the eastern USA so game times would be good for EU and Americas, especially in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Charlotte (NC), Washington, DC (especially if a new stadium within the city gets done), NY/NJ, Miami. The Cup final match would be at MetLIfe in NJ (which will host the 2013 NFL Super Bowl, first time in a undomed winter weather location).
 
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting Marcus (Reply 33):
I think the US and a few European countries already have the needed insfrastructure for a WC, they would have to work with the sports leagues already using those facilities but the stadiums are definetly there.

Many of the larger stadiums in the US that could host matches are not even in use during the time of the World Cup, as the NFL doesn't start playing preseason games until early August. Currently only two MLS teams in the US share a stadium with an NFL team (New England and Seattle) and those two venues were among the list of candidate venues for the 2022 World Cup had it been awarded to the US. Only two venues from the 1994 World Cup were among the candidate venues had the 2022 World Cup been awarded to the US. In the cases of Washington, Boston and NYC, new stadiums had been built and replaced the previous venues (Although RFK Stadium still is in use, but only by D.C. United of the MLS.). Detroit, Chicago and Orlando hosted matches in 1994, but did not make the final cut for candidate venues in the US bid (Detroit's venue was a new venue, Chicago's was a heavily renovated one and Orlando's venue is not up to par with newer facilites.).

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 41):
Oki so you werent there so i can understand you didnt see or feel what was missing. the WC was a plastic WC. Soulless. People came to be entertained. these werent football fans these were spctators that took ina game, ate candy and enjoyed themselves rather than the football. The ones that wanted to be entertained and not the true football fans the ones that create atmospheres and make football the unique sport it is. The fans that will show at another WC in the US are the same ones. That in itself should be enough to ensure we never see another WC in the USA.

Things have come a long way since 1994. In 1994, the highest level pro league in the US was at best the equivalent of a Second Division league. MLS came along a few years later and struggled (mainly because they were playing in stadiums designed for American football and now the majority of teams play in smaller venues designed for the game), but has found its' feet and in some markets, there is a passionate fan base that rivals many clubs in the major pro leagues in Europe and South America (Every MLS team has multiple supporters clubs and some are extremely passionate about their teams and the game.). The Seattle Sounders average over 38,000 fans every home match and some matches they draw 50,000+ (They recently drew a team record 67,385, Clint Dempsey's home debut after being acquired from Spurs.). Even national team matches have become raucous affairs as supporter groups like Sam's Army and The American Outlaws attend matches in large numbers. At the 2010 World Cup in Germany, there were over 8000 members of Sam's Army in the stands for the match against England. During the 2002 World Cup, 2000 members of Sam's Army gathered at RFK Stadium to watch the US-Germany match on TV.

There's a growing passion for the game in the US (as well as Canada, as there are three Canadian teams in the MLS) and the MLS plans to have 24 teams by 2020. They've already announced a second team for the New York City market, New York City FC (which starts play in 2015 and will play at a soccer specific stadium in Queens) and there are plans to add an additional 4 clubs after that. Here are the likely markets for those four new clubs:

Miami. This is pretty much a done deal, as David Beckham's contract when he signed with the L.A. Galaxy included a provision that he could buy an MLS expansion club for any market except NYC. South Florida did have an MLS club in the early days of the league, but the league folded it along with the club in Tampa.

Atlanta. Largest TV market in the US without an MLS team. This team is likely to be owned by the owner of the Atlanta Falcons and would play at the new Falcons stadium, slated to open in 2017 (While the stadium has yet to break ground, Arthur Blank officially made his pitch publicly for an MLS team and suggested the stadium could open in time for the 2017 MLS season.

Minnesota. Has long been on the short-list of possible cities and the MLS has talked with the owner of the NFL Vikings, who said he would be interested if the Vikings got a new stadium (which is slated to open in the Fall of 2016). So perhaps Atlanta and Minnesota come in for the 2017 MLS season.

The fourth club is the wild card, as places like St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, San Antonio, Sacramento, Detroit, Orlando and Ottawa have parties interested in an MLS team. I'm thinking St. Louis or Detroit are the more likely cities for that fourth MLS club.

Now some market may end up with a team that currently exists, as the Houston Dynamo came to the MLS as a relocation of the San Jose Earthquakes (who rejoined MLS as an expansion club in 2008). Chivas USA's name has come about in sale and relocation rumors, as there have been rumors (denied by MLS) of the franchise being revoked and put up for sale to the highest bidder.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 35):
I expect a lot of these fans to be turning around in circles for weeks between the games they plan on watching

I expect the big winner from the games to be Dubai.

Oh the irony...

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 38):
Can you imagine being hungover in 40 degree heat?

WORSE. FEELING. EVER.

The hangover is compounded by chronic dehydration meaning that all you want to do is die. And yes, I'm speaking from experience.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
N1120A
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):

Oh sure. Chase Field in Phoenix has a permanent grass field, as does Miller Park in Milwaukee. Both of those are retractable roofs. I don't see why the Qatari's can't do that, if they are legitimately holding a World Cup.
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BHMNONREV
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RE: Sepp Blatter Defiant On Qatar WC

Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:49 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 41):
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 34):
Yeah, I guess they were disappointed so much that the '94 WC was the most attended in history. While I will admit that some of the facilities were not exactly first rate it did not stop the fans from coming.

Oki so you werent there so i can understand you didnt see or feel what was missing. the WC was a plastic WC. Soulless. People came to be entertained. these werent football fans these were spctators that took ina game, ate candy and enjoyed themselves rather than the football. The ones that wanted to be entertained and not the true football fans the ones that create atmospheres and make football the unique sport it is. The fans that will show at another WC in the US are the same ones. That in itself should be enough to ensure we never see another WC in the USA.

Yeah, I was there as I stated in my previous post. And while I found Orlando a bit lacking in the passion I thought the Brazil-Netherlands match in Dallas was completely over the top. And there was nothing plastic about it, with plenty of US fanatics amongst the Brazilians and the Dutch fans. So I don't know where your "weren't football fans" came from..

Quoting srbmod (Reply 46):
Things have come a long way since 1994. In 1994, the highest level pro league in the US was at best the equivalent of a Second Division league. MLS came along a few years later and struggled (mainly because they were playing in stadiums designed for American football and now the majority of teams play in smaller venues designed for the game), but has found its' feet and in some markets, there is a passionate fan base that rivals many clubs in the major pro leagues in Europe and South America (Every MLS team has multiple supporters clubs and some are extremely passionate about their teams and the game.). The Seattle Sounders average over 38,000 fans every home match and some matches they draw 50,000+ (They recently drew a team record 67,385, Clint Dempsey's home debut after being acquired from Spurs.). Even national team matches have become raucous affairs as supporter groups like Sam's Army and The American Outlaws attend matches in large numbers. At the 2010 World Cup in Germany, there were over 8000 members of Sam's Army in the stands for the match against England. During the 2002 World Cup, 2000 members of Sam's Army gathered at RFK Stadium to watch the US-Germany match on TV.

Thank you. 'Nuff said..

Quoting srbmod (Reply 46):
The fourth club is the wild card, as places like St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, San Antonio, Sacramento, Detroit, Orlando and Ottawa have parties interested in an MLS team. I'm thinking St. Louis or Detroit are the more likely cities for that fourth MLS club.

St. Louis recently hosted two friendlies, Man City vs Chelsea at Busch Stadium and Real Madrid vs Inter Milan at the Edward Jones Dome. The MC-Chelsea match sold out (almost 50,000) in hours (and the event organizers said they could have sold 80,000 tickets has a larger venue been available), while RM-IM had over 55,000 at the Dome. And St. Louis does not even have an MLS team. But there is no doubt they will at some point, I think it all depends on Mr. Kroenke and his stadium plans for the Rams.

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