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Mortyman
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NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:13 pm

NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel

• Secret deal places no legal limits on use of data by Israelis
• Only official US government communications protected
• Agency insists it complies with rules governing privacy

Read more here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ans-personal-data-israel-documents


Wonder what comes Next ...
 
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LAXintl
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:24 pm

Meh.... I say so what.

Life goes on.


p.s. - let them share with Canada, UK, an other allies also imo.

[Edited 2013-09-11 13:26:20]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AA7295
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:40 pm

If it prevents a terrorist attack.... who cares.
 
lewis
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:35 pm

I thought Israel was actively spying on the US and its other allies. NSA sharing that info is just redundant.
 
seb146
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:59 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 2):
If it prevents a terrorist attack.... who cares.

I do. I write inane e-mails of no interest to any intelligence agency. But, they are private and personal documents. If I were in constant contact with people in Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, I could understand. But, if I am just writing to my mom, the government should not know that.

That is the whole issue "liberals" had with NSA and illegal wiretaps since NSA and Patriot Act were passed.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
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LAXintl
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:05 am

Don't worry about your inane emails. They wont even get past the electronic filters.

Anyhow, much of the data mining is not about the content of the message, but building connecting webs of who communicates with who and looking out for changes in patterns.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Klaus
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:12 am

It's getting sort of difficult to come up with any new conspiracy theories about the NSA which haven't already been confirmed or which don't turn out to be true within the week...!   

What a blundering tumble into the bright light of day for "No Such Agency" of bygone days...!   
 
AA7295
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):

I do. I write inane e-mails of no interest to any intelligence agency. But, they are private and personal documents. If I were in constant contact with people in Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, I could understand. But, if I am just writing to my mom, the government should not know that.

That is the whole issue "liberals" had with NSA and illegal wiretaps since NSA and Patriot Act were passed.

Are you the kind of person that when you hear "NSA is reading your emails" you think a human is reading them? If so, you're wrong. It's just a computer. Think of how many BILLIONS of emails, phone calls, SMS messages etc are sent each day. Nope, the NSA does not have the staff to read those.

And if you were worried about a computer reading your email, well, don't use Electronic Mail.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:23 am

Well I guess I'm in the minority but considering I email friends overseas in the Middle East and have worked in the region, I am frankly outraged. To turn over any US Citizens data to of all places Israel, without any warrant or even probable cause, is frankly appalling. As if there was any doubt who wears the pants in this relationship.
 
seb146
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:39 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 7):
Are you the kind of person that when you hear "NSA is reading your emails" you think a human is reading them? If so, you're wrong. It's just a computer. Think of how many BILLIONS of emails, phone calls, SMS messages etc are sent each day. Nope, the NSA does not have the staff to read those.

And they are just thrown out, right? Well, not exactly as we know from what Edward Snowden told us. And how long has that been going on? According to some, since Obama took office. But, look closer. This has been going on since NSA was established.

I don't care if they delete all of my e-mails from their database. They should never have had them in the first place! The only e-mails they should have that I am involved with are the one coming from that bloody Nigerian prince.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
AA7295
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:06 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
And they are just thrown out, right? Well, not exactly as we know from what Edward Snowden told us. And how long has that been going on? According to some, since Obama took office. But, look closer. This has been going on since NSA was established.

I don't care if they delete all of my e-mails from their database. They should never have had them in the first place! The only e-mails they should have that I am involved with are the one coming from that bloody Nigerian prince.

And what if Edward Snowden had claimed that China has strategically placed 10 nuclear warheads in 10 major cities in America? Would you believe him? Let's not forget that everything he has said are "allegations" and if you look closely, the NSA and the White House has strategically and intentionally not confirmed or denied anything. All they have said is there are "types" of programs similar to what has been claimed.
 
Acheron
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:16 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Anyhow, much of the data mining is not about the content of the message, but building connecting webs of who communicates with who and looking out for changes in patterns.

Ah, the "metadata" excuse which is actually quite a load of BS.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:24 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 7):
And if you were worried about a computer reading your email, well, don't use Electronic Mail.

That really is a very old fashioned way of thinking.

Emails are private, just as letters are private. And just because you send letters through a postal service, doesn't give them the right to steam open and snoop your mail !

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 8):
To turn over any US Citizens data to of all places Israel, without any warrant or even probable cause, is frankly appalling.

It is quite strange there is not much uproar about this yet in America, what with all the rights and protections etc.... ?

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 8):
As if there was any doubt who wears the pants in this relationship.

Has there ever been ?


Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
They should never have had them in the first place!

  

As we all know by now, this is the price you all pay, WE all pay for pushing our values.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:31 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):
That is the whole issue "liberals" had with NSA and illegal wiretaps since NSA and Patriot Act were passed.

Not quite. The bill had 1 Nay vote when created in the Senate and 67 in the House. Reauthorized by a democratically controlled Senate and signed by a democrat and liberal president. They had an issue with illegal wiretaps when they were under Bush. But even the liberal administration is doing it. I guess it is do as I say and not as I do?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Don't worry about your inane emails. They wont even get past the electronic filters.

The thing on my end is, I don't care if it is read by a computer or by a person. I don't think they have a right to my information. I have nothing to hide at all. I'm a pretty open book. But it is the principle that they can grab whatever piece of my information that they want at any time is what concerns me. That isn't protecting me, that is intruding into my life.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 10):
And what if Edward Snowden had claimed that China has strategically placed 10 nuclear warheads in 10 major cities in America? Would you believe him? Let's not forget that everything he has said are "allegations" and if you look closely, the NSA and the White House has strategically and intentionally not confirmed or denied anything. All they have said is there are "types" of programs similar to what has been claimed.

   I agree for the most part. I think people believe he has a whole lot more than he actually has. Now I believe a lot of what he has said. But far from all of it. It just seems too convenient to me that a low level person like himself could be savvy enough to get all this information. But I think the White House has to navigate this cautiously. The silence could come back to bite them, or it could be genius.

I don't think it is a surprise that we are sharing it with an ally. The people who hate America for the most part hate Israel as well. It only seems logical to share intel. Now I don't agree with how they acquired this intel. I think it is alarming they are intruding into our lives like how they are. But if they have it they might as well use it to do something to protect people.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
flymia
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:50 am

If you don't want your conversation being read or possibly read you have an option. Mail it. Well actually internationally it might be read because other countries can do what they wish.

But guys when it comes to email even if there was no NSA the emails are not yours anyway. They belong to the email companies and your Internet providers. There is no right to privacy in an email because its not something you own to begin with. Just like there is no right to privacy with a bank account statement, an airline ticket or utility bill. That information in those documents or emails are already given to third persons or companies. Unless there is a confidentiality agreement between you and that other person or entity like an attorney, doctor and some states accountants you have no expectation to right a privacy. See the case of U.S. v. Miller.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Flighty
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 10):

And what if Edward Snowden had claimed that China has strategically placed 10 nuclear warheads in 10 major cities in America? Would you believe him?

So far, Snowden is essentially the most credible man in the world.
 
blueflyer
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 13):
Now I believe a lot of what he has said. But far from all of it.

The Guardian, the Washington Post, The New York Times, ProPublica, etc... do not blindly disseminate what Snowden gives them. They check and re-check, sometimes over a period of months, then give the administration the possibility to comment and/or convince them not to publish the information collected. Asides from the revelations over the NSA's encryption breaking efforts, the NYT also had an article relating how they came under heavy pressure not to report on this issue at all.

It pains me to admit that as one who was glad Obama won each of his two presidential elections, I believe Snowden over him. Why? Because every time Obama promises our privacy and constitutional rights are protected, the NSA's efforts are limited, etc... a story comes out a few weeks or month later making him a liar, unless someone knows how the rights of US citizens are being protected when raw data is being handed over to a foreign country?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
It's getting sort of difficult to come up with any new conspiracy theories

No kidding. If Obama says tomorrow black UN helicopters don't exist, I'm gonna start looking for them in the sky.
Democracy 2016: 3 million California votes < 100,000 Midwest votes.
 
seb146
Posts: 14343
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RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 10):
Let's not forget that everything he has said are "allegations" and if you look closely, the NSA and the White House has strategically and intentionally not confirmed or denied anything. All they have said is there are "types" of programs similar to what has been claimed.

So? I still want to feel secure in my documents. Even my inane e-mails and Facebook posts. I get that there are key words and phrases the government is looking for, but I doubt my aunt talking about her tomatoes qualifies.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 13):
The bill had 1 Nay vote when created in the Senate and 67 in the House. Reauthorized by a democratically controlled Senate and signed by a democrat and liberal president. They had an issue with illegal wiretaps when they were under Bush. But even the liberal administration is doing it. I guess it is do as I say and not as I do?

And there was much debate when it was reauthorized. And, I suspect, if the Democrats are elected to the majority, much of the bite will be taken out of it.

BTW, could you show some respect and capitalize the name of the party? Thanks.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
jetblueguy22
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: NSA Share Raw Intel. Incl. Americans' Data W ...

Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:54 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 16):
The Guardian, the Washington Post, The New York Times, ProPublica, etc... do not blindly disseminate what Snowden gives them. They check and re-check, sometimes over a period of months, then give the administration the possibility to comment and/or convince them not to publish the information collected. Asides from the revelations over the NSA's encryption breaking efforts, the NYT also had an article relating how they came under heavy pressure not to report on this issue at all.

I'm sure they fact check when they report on the programs themselves and state what Snowden has revealed as fact. But Snowden could say something and they write a story on what he said without fact checking. So they may not be releasing false information but Snowden is. Now I'm not saying he has released false information. I'm just saying he's in a position to where he could release something that is completely false and people would believe it, because he has been spot on to this point.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
And there was much debate when it was reauthorized. And, I suspect, if the Democrats are elected to the majority, much of the bite will be taken out of it.

There may have been debates about it, but clearly not many votes in the Nay. Actions speak louder than words. The Democrats won't take a bite out of the bill. Obama is defending the NSA action which was allowed through the Patriot Act. They may restrict it slightly. But they aren't going back.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
BTW, could you show some respect and capitalize the name of the party? Thanks.

  I'll be more careful next time..
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club

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