Gonzalo
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US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:28 am

The President of Venezuela will be flying from Caracas to China this weekend, but according to news agencies like AFP the US government denied permission to the flight to use any US airspace.

Maduro will not delay his trip, so the Venezuela's government is exploring alternative flight plans.


http://news.yahoo.com/us-denies-madu...html;_ylt=A2KJ3CRviTtSbVoALCTQtDMD


Putting a side all the political sides of this, what are the alternative flight plans they can use??

( This will be a looooong journey for sure       )

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einsteinboricua
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:31 am

"No one can deny airspace to a plane carrying a president on an international state visit. There is no valid argument to refuse airspace."

Actually, doesn't each country have full sovereignty over their airspace and can decide who to let through, regardless of any treaties? If what's quoted is the case, then why don't Arab counties allow Israel's president/prime minister to fly over their territory if en route to another country?
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TheCommodore
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:44 am

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
so the Venezuela's government is exploring alternative flight plans.

Very very pettie indeed !

At this rate, the US Government might have to explore alternative flight plans next time Air force 1 needs to flyover Latin American countries. That should be interesting !!

What a waste of time on the US part.  
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ikramerica
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:56 am

Why does the route need to cross US Airspace. It's a straight shot across Canada, the North Pole and on to Beijing. If there is an emergency, of course they could land in the USA. But if they need a fuel stop, why not Halifax or around there?
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WarRI1
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:01 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
Very very pettie indeed !



Remember Chavez, we do in the US.



At this rate, the US Government might have to explore alternative flight plans next time Air force 1 needs to flyover Latin American countries. That should be interesting !!



I think they may have thought about this, don't you.




What a waste of time on the US part.

How Judgmental of you. One would think you have a grudge against the US.
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Okie
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:03 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
At this rate, the US Government might have to explore alternative flight plans next time Air force 1 needs to flyover Latin American countries. That should be interesting !!

Especially Bolivia, Morales may return a favor.
That event has to be one of the most embarrassing moments in the history of US diplomatic relations.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
What a waste of time on the US part

Petty, is about the only credit you can give Obama. I guess this means Obama is going to try and prevent Maduro from attending any UN activities as well?

Okie
 
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting okie (Reply 5):
Petty, is about the only credit you can give Obama. I guess this means Obama is going to try and prevent Maduro from attending any UN activities as well?

You are letting your Anti-Obama bias lead you to supporting an enemy of your country. What kind of Conservative Super Patriot are you? Your values seem distorted by your dislike of our President.
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Okie
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:15 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
You are letting your Anti-Obama bias lead you to supporting an enemy of your country

I was unaware the US was at war with the countries of Central and South America.

Okie
 
TheCommodore
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:31 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
How Judgmental of you. One would think you have a grudge against the US.

No one is being judgmental.

The facts in the article speak for themselves !

Quoting okie (Reply 5):
That event has to be one of the most embarrassing moments in the history of US diplomatic relations.

Is seems rather so.

Quoting okie (Reply 5):
I guess this means Obama is going to try and prevent Maduro from attending any UN activities as well?

Especially when the US has just been carrying on about how ineffective the UN is, they want to try and stop members attending ?

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
I was unaware the US was at war with the countries of Central and South America.

Give them time .......   

What enemy....?

Why are you always looking at everything outside the US as being aggressive towards the US ?

[Edited 2013-09-19 19:33:35]
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photopilot
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:43 am

Good grief.... why is it that every time the USA gets on the world stage, they continue to embarrass themselves with such petty antics? Can you Americans not see that the whole world is basically laughing at you?

I hope the Venezuelans find an alternative routing, fly it, and simply ignore the laughable US decision.
 
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:58 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
You are letting your Anti-Obama bias lead you to supporting an enemy of your country. What kind of Conservative Super Patriot are you? Your values seem distorted by your dislike of our President.

When it comes to foreign policy I am a card carrying American Apologist, but this is indeed petty, and to be blunt laughably childish.

Venezuela does not pose a direct threat to the United States in any capacity. Any "dispute" relates to business interests which the last Administration blew out of proportion and the current Administration has done little to rectify.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:00 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
Venezuela does not pose a direct threat to the United States in any capacity.

You'd think so, except when it comes to black gold.
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WarRI1
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:04 am

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
I was unaware the US was at war with the countries of Central and South America.

Did I use the word war? One can have an enemy without war, or combat. Take President Obama for instance.

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:18:55]
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WarRI1
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:10 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
One would think you have a grudge against the US.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
No one is being judgmental.

Fine, How about the grudge part?
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Aesma
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:15 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 1):
"No one can deny airspace to a plane carrying a president on an international state visit. There is no valid argument to refuse airspace."

Actually, doesn't each country have full sovereignty over their airspace and can decide who to let through, regardless of any treaties? If what's quoted is the case, then why don't Arab counties allow Israel's president/prime minister to fly over their territory if en route to another country?

You can deny airspace of course, but it's a diplomatic blunder for sure, which will not help improve relations, so better avoided. Last I checked Chavez and Ahmadinejad could attend UN meetings fine, even though they mostly insulted the US during their speeches.

As for Israel, I rather thought that Israeli airplanes avoided certain airspaces preventively, while banning some airlines from their own airspace.

[Edited 2013-09-19 21:01:45]
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WarRI1
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:18 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
When it comes to foreign policy I am a card carrying American Apologist, but this is indeed petty, and to be blunt laughably childish.




I appreciate your support on other issues.




Venezuela does not pose a direct threat to the United States in any capacity. Any "dispute" relates to business interests which the last Administration blew out of proportion and the current Administration has done little to rectify.

I cannot pretend to understand what brought about this decision, we do not know all for sure. Maybe the Snowden affair again.

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:29:40]
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AR385
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:29 am

There must be alternatives. The route will be circuitious and delay his arrival by a few hours. But isn´t it a State plane? I suppose it has a big bed on it. Tough for the less important entourage though.

I agree it is a childish act by US diplomacy. Petty and serves nothing. I suppose it has to do with giving the Republicans something for the coming issues? Anyway, doing this type of thing to Venezuela might have no consequence, but then they do it to countries like Russia (remember Snowden) and the US ends up with egg on its face.

Then again it might, as almost half the population in Latina America is governed by democratically elected governments that are left leaning and more or less (at least in rethoric) embracing the "imperialist" "this is the 70s again" flag. Didn´t Dilma just cancelled a trip to the US? Sure, you may shrug off Bolivia but Brazil? Not even Nicaragua, as instability there can have bad consequences. for a whole region. Remember the Contras and that whole mess?

Maduro is not someone I like, nor would I like to be governed by such a mafia, but still, the US needs to look at the big picture and be practical.

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:37:56]

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:41:27]
 
mham001
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:53 am

I'm thinking we have not heard the whole story yet, but the knee-jerking is always interesting.

It appears he was already en route and denied entry in air. How does that work? Would they have filed a flight plan? Had it been pre-approved? Seems there are some questions that need answers before we hurt our chins.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua told media that an aircraft carrying President Nicolas Maduro was denied travel over Puerto Rico’s airspace.

President Maduro’s flight, which was en route to China, was forced to find an alternate path according to Jaua, who denounced the act as “an act of aggression.”
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10036
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:57 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
I suppose it has to do with giving the Republicans something for the coming issues?

Huh? What does this have to do with the Republicans? I'm confused by what you are saying
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AR385
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:08 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Huh? What does this have to do with the Republicans? I'm confused by what you are saying

I supposed in my very meager understanding of US politics that Obama has to be seen as tough as possible so as to limit the opposition he has on the coming negotiations in issues that are important for those who really give a crap about Maduro, who tend to be, most intense, Republicans.

I may be wrong. But I assume he cannot, at this point in time, be seen as soft on a country like Venezuela?
 
TheCommodore
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:46 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
Fine, How about the grudge part?

Did you read my reply to your question in (reply8) ?

Here it is again for you....

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
No one is being judgmental.

The facts in the article speak for themselves !
Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
As for Israel, I rather thought that Israeli airplanes avoided certain airspaces preventively, while banning some airlines from their own airspace.

Yeah well.... that's another one of those "hypocrisy" that Israel cowers behind.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
I cannot pretend to understand what brought about this decision, we do not know all for sure.

Appears self evident to most of us here

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
Maybe the Snowden affair again.

Wow, this guy really rustled some feathers in the state department for it to have such a reaction.

I think you give him way tooooo much credit, although I'm sure he happily take it from you .

[Edited 2013-09-19 21:47:42]
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MIAspotter
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:31 am

As far as I know, the US has not recognized Maduro as the legitimate president of Venezuela (neither do I) so is this the reason why?

(edit) I also remembered He usually flies a Cubana IL96 (Where´s the ACJ?) so maybe that´s another reason. He is flying on a Cuban registered airplane which I assume are banned in the US.

All in all, he put it upon himself.

As soon as he arrives into China, be ready to see a mouth foaming monkey with a microphone.

MIAspotter.

[Edited 2013-09-20 00:34:41]
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PanHAM
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:32 am

Well, the guy is hostile to the USA whenever he can and the US just ignores him. Now he complains that the US ignores his request to overfly their territory.

Still haven't seen alternatives, what does he fly anyway? An Airbus corporate jet based on the 319? Or does he require a Conviasa A340 or what else?

They can fly around the US airspace flying outside along the west coast and refuel in YVR and then again avoiding US airspace. Adds a few hours but not much. If they cannot reach PEK non stop the comrades in Wladiwostok or Pyong Yang would be glad to help out.

As to the UN GA, the US has to allow them in according to the treaty they have with the UN. But he and his delegation are confined to a very small area of Manhattan which usually is their UN Embassy and the Un building itself.
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AR385
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:36 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
An Airbus corporate jet based on the 319? Or does he require a Conviasa A340 or what else?

They have the Airbus you mention. As far as I know the Conviasa plane is gone and is sitting somewhere without its engines.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:44 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Still haven't seen alternatives, what does he fly anyway? An Airbus corporate jet based on the 319? Or does he require a Conviasa A340 or what else?
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 21):
He usually flies a Cubana IL96 (Where´s the ACJ?) so maybe that´s another reason. He is flying on a Cuban registered airplane which I assume are banned in the US.

There, I was editing my post when you posted yours, there´s the answer.

He flies the CU IL96, the Gov has an A319 ACJ but haven´t heard from it in a long while.

MIAspotter.
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PhilBy
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:47 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 1):
If what's quoted is the case, then why don't Arab counties allow Israel's president/prime minister to fly over their territory if en route to another country?

As they don't recognise the state of Israel they don't accept the president/prime minister thereof as heads of state.
 
bennett123
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:12 am

iirc, the A340 is sitting at Bordeaux.
 
PHX787
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:25 am

I dont like Obama or Maduro....but this is quite interesting
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MIAspotter
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:32 am

Ohh now Mr Evo Morales is also angry.

El gobierno boliviano alistará una demanda judicial internacional contra el presidente de Estados Unidos, Barack Obama, por delitos de lesa humanidad, anunció este jueves el presidente Evo Morales en rueda de prensa.

Morales argumentó que acusará a Obama por “el espionaje (a gobiernos y países), por las políticas de amedrentamiento e intimidación y la prohibición de sobrevuelo de territorio de Puerto Rico” al avión presidencial de Nicolás Maduro, durante el viaje que realizará este fin de semana a China.

“Quiero comunicar que, ahora, con más fuerza, vamos a preparar una demanda internacional a los tribunales para que Obama y su gobierno sean juzgados por delitos de lesa humanidad”, planteó el mandatario, un declarado adversario de las políticas de Washington.


Rough translation.

The Bolivian Government will prepare an international lawsuit against the President of the United States, Barack Obama for ¨Crimes against humanity¨ Evo Morales announced this last thursday in a press conference.

Morales says he will accuse Obama for ¨Espionage (to other countries and governments) and their policies of intimidation and for prohibiting the Venezuelan President to overfly Puerto Rican territory on his way to China.

¨I wish to say, now stronger than ever, that we will prepare an international lawsuit so that Obama and his government are brought to a judge for crimes against humanity¨ said the Bolivian president, a fervant opposer to Washington´s policies.

Obama must be really scared now...   

MIAspotter.
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PanHAM
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:45 am

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 24):
He flies the CU IL96, the Gov has an A319 ACJ but haven´t heard from it in a long while.

I remember, but not sure, that, when Chavez died the ACJ was flow to France as well. May be the plane is so sacred that no other head of state is allowed to use the personal propety of his late holiness.

Anyway, the answer is there with the Cubana Il96 , Cuba is banned and that's that. They might use it to JFK for the UN assembly but that's it.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:14 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
I appreciate your support on other issues

Thankyou, when it comes to domestic politics I'm sure that we see eye-to-eye on many issues. That said, I'm prepared to call something as I see it, and - as I said - I do so despite being a very vocal advocate for American global leadership  
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pvjin
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:35 am

As far as I know Cuban jetliners are allowed to overfly US airspace so I don't think that has anything to do with this, probably just another case of US government being pathetic as usual. Typical behaviour of a rogue state.
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tu204
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:17 am

Well the IL96 has decent range.
Anyone know if they reconfigure the cabin when it is used for government transport? Or is it still in the standard Cubana configuration?
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Pellegrine
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10036

So Puertorriqueño airspace was the issue.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3):
Why does the route need to cross US Airspace. It's a straight shot across Canada, the North Pole and on to Beijing. If there is an emergency, of course they could land in the USA. But if they need a fuel stop, why not Halifax or around there?

So looking at it, CCS-YHZ passes directly over PR, and CCS-PEK barely passes to the west according to the GC.

Not that we know his route or anything. Venezuela for sure does not have an airplane that can fly CCS-PEK nonstop. Not even sure if the Conviasa A340-211 could (don't think so). A -213 (maybe) or -213X could at low payload.
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PHX787
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:00 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 31):
Typical behaviour of a rogue state.

Man what is with you? don't just spout abject nonsense like this.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 28):
Obama must be really scared now...
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 28):
Ohh now Mr Evo Morales is also angry.

Anything that Morales spouts is just steam....I'd like to know how HE has improved the lives of Bolivians since he took over. Maybe HE himself is guilty of "crimes against humanity."
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photopilot
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:11 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 21):
I also remembered He usually flies a Cubana IL96 (Where´s the ACJ?) so maybe that´s another reason. He is flying on a Cuban registered airplane which I assume are banned in the US.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
Anyway, the answer is there with the Cubana Il96 , Cuba is banned and that's that.

Sorry guys... you're wrong.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 31):
As far as I know Cuban jetliners are allowed to overfly US airspace

Absolutely correct. Cubana has regular scheduled service to Canada from Cuba and I've flown them many times on direct routes across the USA. The US did prohibit over-flights at one time but in 1988 relaxed the prohibition to allow Cubana to cross over upstate New York on flights to Montreal and Toronto. On June 22, 1988, full over-flights were granted on routes that cross over Georgia, the western Carolinas, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and western New York. The Federal Aviation Administration said the routing avoids any sensitive military sites. This occurred after a formal complaint by Cuba to the UN's ICAO which the US knew they were going to lose.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y98/jun98/22e3.htm
 
MIAspotter
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:22 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 34):
Anything that Morales spouts is just steam....I'd like to know how HE has improved the lives of Bolivians since he took over. Maybe HE himself is guilty of "crimes against humanity."

Exactly, and included in that is the whole Chavez/Maduro/Ortega/Correa mix of radical monkeys.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 35):
Sorry guys... you're wrong.

Ohh I see, oh well, I stand corrected then   didn´t know that.

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einsteinboricua
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:31 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
Last I checked Chavez and Ahmadinejad could attend UN meetings fine, even though they mostly insulted the US during their speeches.

That's different. The US is the host nation of the UN; ergo, the US MUST allow any diplomat going to the summits into their airspace.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 33):
So looking at it, CCS-YHZ passes directly over PR, and CCS-PEK barely passes to the west according to the GC.

Indeed it does. I came up with the map last night. Apparently, on the island, many people think Earth is flat and were wondering why didn't Maduro fly west...   
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FlyingSicilian
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:48 pm

Where are you finding this story?
It says even though they did the paperwork incorrectly he was granted overflight

http://news.yahoo.com/us-denies-madu...html;_ylt=A2KJ3CRviTtSbVoALCTQtDMD

"US grants Venezuela leader permission to enter airspace"


But the United States said it had in fact granted fly-over rights.

"The US has granted permission to Venezuelan authorities to enter US airspace," deputy State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf said in an email.

Harf said that although the request was not submitted properly, US authorities worked with the Venezuelan embassy to resolve the issue.

"US authorities made an extraordinary effort to work with relevant authorities to grant overflight approval in a matter of hours," Harf said.

"As a result we were able to notify the Venezuelan authorities last night that permission was granted."
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daedaeg
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 38):
"US grants Venezuela leader permission to enter airspace"

So basically everyone's arguing over nothing. Moving right along.
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Aesma
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:39 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 21):
As far as I know, the US has not recognized Maduro as the legitimate president of Venezuela (neither do I) so is this the reason why?

So they recognize Putin, military dictator types, but not him ?
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Francoflier
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:13 pm

First four lines of the article:

"The United States said Friday it has granted access to its airspace so Venezuela's president can make a weekend trip to China, countering assertions from Caracas that permission was denied.

On Thursday Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro bristled with outrage at the "serious offense" of denying his plane rights to US airspace over the Atlantic."

(Fair excerpt or whatever)

So in short, a simple administrative error which Maduro, following right in the footsteps of his late mentor Chavez, branded to the World as an example of the unfair treatment he receives from the arrogant imperialist American regime...

So what else is new?
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:30 pm

I like this quote from Reuters:


"Awaiting Maduro's arrival in Beijing, Venezuelan Petroleum Minister Rafael Ramirez took to Twitter to complain harshly about how the president had been treated by the United States.

"Say what you like. Go to hell Yankee shits. We're free. The rest doesn't matter!" Ramirez said."


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AR385
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:37 pm

Good. I´m glad Maduro and his government will to continue to look (among a few others) as the laughing stock of Latin America. It really seemed strange the US would have bothered to engage in such petty diplomatic practices over an offical delegation overflying Puerto Rico. They might be made up of thugs, but still.

The right thing to do now is for Maduro to apologize for his rants due to the misinformation he received. That won´t happen anyway. Too bad for him.
 
Gonzalo
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:17 am

So, the Venezuela's Gov didn't sent the overflight request on due time ( one day before while should be three days ), but they are waiting for an apology from the US. Nice. I would steal the car of my neighbour, crash the thing against a wall, and then I would demand an apology from him.        

OTOH, the words from Evo Morales, are in my opinion a clear sign of the bad effects the cocaine has in the brain.

Thanks to the behavior and rhetoric of clowns like Maduro, Morales, Kirchner and Correa, half of South America is a permanent embarrassment.... I feel sorry for the poor people living under this new tendency of turning democracy into "clownocracy".

Rgds.
G.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 38):
Harf said that although the request was not submitted properly, US authorities worked with the Venezuelan embassy to resolve the issue.

That's good, if it was merely a bureaucratic and administrative misunderstanding then I retract what I said about calling the USA petty etc.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 36):
Chavez/Maduro/Ortega/Correa mix of radical monkeys

/Kirchner.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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WarRI1
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:41 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 45):
That's good, if it was merely a bureaucratic and administrative misunderstanding then I retract what I said about calling the USA petty etc.

I give you credit for that retraction, unfortunately most will not have the class to do so. It is plain to see the agenda of some, to just condemn the US. What ticks me off the most is when one is an American, and uses this mistake to advance his personal dislike for our President by agreeing with the condemnation of the US by those who love to criticize us.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
L-188
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RE: US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President

Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:27 am

I suspect this was more of a case of Venzulea intentionally trying to spark a row with the US for internal consumption rater than an actual US snub.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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