cptkrell
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Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:37 pm

A lot of controversy lately and I've heard pros from some Native American leaders and cons from other interested parties and was wondering what you folks think. Personally, I have never considered the term "redskin" to be racially derogatory, but then, I'm just an ole white guy bystander that likes to watch a good baseball game now and then. (Go Tigers).

I also wondered about the Atlanta Braves, Cleveland Indians (and Indian motorcycle for that matter). Would the Santa Fe Super Chief or Pontiac Chieftain survive in today's P.C. climate? It can be argued that some of these could be perceived as stately references, not negative in some people's minds, but it does make one (me, anyway) wonder a bit. Any points of view? best regards...jack

P.S. I hope this is not an old topic. If so, kindly point me to topic title. I checked but couldn't find any specific references.
all best; jack
 
Superfly
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:29 pm

Having the name Washington in front of their name is an insult.
Bring back the Concorde
 
doug_or
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:31 pm

Cool, thanks for clearing that up for everyone.

Quoting cptkrell (Thread starter):
I have never considered the term "redskin" to be racially derogatory, but then, I'm just an ole white guy bystander that likes to watch a good baseball game now and then. (Go Tigers).

I think the problem is that redskin is kind of racially derogatory. Can you imagine a minor league team called the El Paso Wetbacks? The Savannah Negroes? We've gotten used to Redskins as the name of an NFL team but if someone tried to name an expansion team that it would assault on good taste and decency.

[Edited 2013-10-21 11:07:13 by SA7700]
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4holer
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:56 pm

I hated when my college (Indiana Univ. of PA) changed the mascot from the Indians. (It's Indiana, PA for petes sake!)
I was against changing the name of Squaw Peak here in PHX to Piestewa Peak.. (Mostly because I don't buy the "evolved from the C word" argument, and most natives had no problem with it)

...But the Redskins gotta change that. I don't think "Indians, Braves, Chiefs" and such are offensive; they actually are a tribute to bravery, strength, etc. But "Redskins" is an insult and an ugly embarrassment to the NFL.

Change it.
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Superfly
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting 4holer (Reply 4):
I hated when my college (Indiana Univ. of PA) changed the mascot from the Indians.

I hated when Beaver College in Pennsylvania changed their name as well.
Bring back the Concorde
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 3):
Can you imagine a minor league team called the El Paso Wetbacks? The Savannah Negroes?

  

I get the concepts of brand loyalty and brand value, but plenty of teams have survived name changes before. In fact, the New Orleans NBA team is changing it's name this year from the drab "Hornets" to the equally drab "Pelicans." Granted, there was no outside pressure to change it, but they'll survive.

Let's look at it this way, for those who are Washington football fans, is a name change honestly going to change how you feel about your team? Pick a few nominees, have a fan vote, and let's get this over with.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
Superfly
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 6):
I get the concepts of brand loyalty and brand value, but plenty of teams have survived name changes before. In fact, the New Orleans NBA team is changing it's name this year from the drab "Hornets" to the equally drab "Pelicans." Granted, there was no outside pressure to change it, but they'll survive.

Agreed. Although I don't have a strong opinion on this issue. Also, teams have been changing cities and stadiums often in recent years so a name change wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 6):
Pick a few nominees, have a fan vote, and let's get this over with.

Leeches
Bloodsuckers
Albatross
Bureaucrats
Parasites

All the above suit Washington very well.

[Edited 2013-10-20 10:28:16]
Bring back the Concorde
 
andz
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:32 pm

There is a chain of steak restaurants here in South Africa that sort of has American Indian (is that the PC term?) themed décor. Apparently a few years ago some American patrons at one of the restaurants kicked up a stink because the restrooms were labelled Squaws and Braves.

https://www.spur.co.za/
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cptkrell
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Leeches
Bloodsuckers
Albatross
Bureaucrats
Parasites

All the above suit Washington very well.

Well said, 'Fly.

I wish I could claim this as my original, but can't. I just got off the phone with a good buddy and he suggested that Washington just keep the "Redskins" as their official name but change the graphics to a picture of a potato. Boom! No problem!. best regards...jack
all best; jack
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
No.

End of discussion.

   This.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 3):
I think the problem is that redskin is kind of racially derogatory.

Quite frankly unless you're Native American, your opinion is irrelevant. The fact remains that poll after poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Native Americans do NOT find the team name offensive.

[Edited 2013-10-20 11:14:07]
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flymia
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:15 pm

I say no. It has not been a big problem until the last few years. This country and the world is becoming too PC and everyone wants everything to please everyone. That is not the way the world works. Unless a large amount of Native Americans are offended by it I don't see a big problem. From what I have seen Native American communities are not protesting the name. I may be wrong. Anyone care to share examples of them demanding the name change please let me know.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 4):
Indians,

From what I have read there is more dislike from Native Americans to this name than Redskins. The mascot is also offensive if the Redskins name is. It is a big Red "Indian" face with a feather.
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LittleFokker
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):
The fact remains that poll after poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Native Americans do NOT find the team name offensive

You mean this poll?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...e-is-offensive-to-native-americans

What about this one?


http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...ing-offensive-redskins-name-151498

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):
Quite frankly unless your Native American, your opinion is irrelevant.

What if I, as a white person, think the word "nigger" is generally an offensive word, no matter what the context is. Does that make my opinion irrelevant?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:32 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 13):
You mean this poll?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...e-is-offensive-to-native-americans

What about this one?

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...ing-offensive-redskins-name-151498

The premise of those polls is IF Native Americans find the term offensive. The fact is, Native Americans do not. I would absolutely support a name change if it was considered offensive by Native Americans. See reply 10.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 13):
Does that make my opinion irrelevant?

First, I would say you are arguing apples and oranges since few people would think redskin has anywhere near the meaning as nigger. Second, yes, your opinion, mine, and anyone else who isn't black is generally irrelevant as the word is not directed at us.
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doug_or
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:39 pm

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):
Quite frankly unless you're Native American, your opinion is irrelevant. The fact remains that poll after poll shows that an overwhelming majority of Native Americans do NOT find the team name offensive.

If you had [real] Native American co-workers would you refer to them as a redskins to their face?
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Jetsgo
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:50 pm

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 15):
If you had [real] Native American co-workers would you refer to them as a redskins to their face?

That depends. Is he one of the 9/10 who couldn't care less?

If a majority Native Americans found the term offensive, or hell even close to half, I'd support a name change. Until then, this is nothing but over the top apologist PC rhetoric.
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IADCA
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:53 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Leeches
Bloodsuckers
Albatross
Bureaucrats
Parasites

All the above suit Washington very well.

Fly, I think you're an interesting guy and post interesting things, but most people here don't work for the government, especially Congress. We're regular people and would rather not be insulted. That's like saying people should refer to Thailand's national soccer team as the Ladyboys because that's a stereotype of the inhabitants.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
I hated when Beaver College in Pennsylvania changed their name as well.

This. Especially since it was a women's school.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 3):
if someone tried to name an expansion team that it would assault on good taste and decency.

This, to me, is the strongest argument. But I do find it distateful that this issue has just come to the fore as a manufactured issue by some politicians.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:54 pm

Yes. They should become the DC Redskins.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:24 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Thread starter):
that likes to watch a good baseball game now and then. (Go Tigers)

Um, you're a few hours late for that.  
Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
No.

End of discussion.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Having the name Washington in front of their name is an insult.

  

Quoting IADCA (Reply 17):
Fly, I think you're an interesting guy and post interesting things, but most people here don't work for the government, especially Congress. We're regular people and would rather not be insulted. That's like saying people should refer to Thailand's national soccer team as the Ladyboys because that's a stereotype of the inhabitants.

He was insulting politicians, not "regular people".
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NOLAWildcat
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:29 pm

I've been visiting this site for over a decade now and finally decided to sign up as a forum member. I find it ironic that my first post on A.net is not about aviation, but as a football fan, I find this debate to be an interesting commentary on American society.

I am a Saints fan and don't particularly care about the end result of the Redskins' naming controversy. I won't hold a grudge against the NFL or the powers that be if the name is changed. But I am a bit conflicted about the nature of the debate over the Redskins' name. On one hand, I can see why the name could be perceived as objectionable, and I respect the opinions of those who hold the view that the name should be changed. In my opinion, the name is tasteless, and I certainly would not propose the name Redskins as the name of an expansion team. On the other hand, I see the current debate on the team name as a media-driven brouhaha kicked up by the PC-police over an issue that's not particularly important in the long run. It's another example of the media's propensity to trump up every potential controversy into a matter of life or death for the sake of ratings and filling a 24-hour news cycle. The stubborn part of me wants Dan Snyder to keep the name simply to make the point that it's his team and the name is his to change (and believe me, I'm no fan of Snyder).

However, if polls find that a sizable percentage of Native Americans object to the name, it would probably be a good idea for Snyder to change the name solely for PR reasons--after all this sort of controversy is bad for business, and Snyder has certainly shown himself to be much more effective at making money off the team than putting a quality product on the field. It may even be possible to keep the Native American imagery associated with the team if Snyder can reach a deal with a local tribe regarding a new name and logo similar to that which Florida State has reached with the Seminole Tribe of Florida. Otherwise, there are plenty of other routes the organization could go with a new name--"Redtails" is a favorite of mine given the imagery and the demographics of DC (plus the late 60's-early 70's Redskins' uniforms could be used with minor tweaks).

My point is that the team's name will ultimately be changed not because the name is objectionable, but because the media-manufactured frenzy over the name has radicalized both sides of the argument to the extent that Snyder (either on his own, or through pressure exerted by Tsar Goodell) will be forced to change it simply to remove the threat of bad PR from the organization and the league. The whole issue is another example of how the media's transition to sensationalistic reporting in the world of the 24 hour news cycle has eliminated the presentation of moderate viewpoints and rational discussion in much of the public sphere. Assuming the current media firestorm over the name continues to simmer (even at a lower level) over the next couple of years, I expect to see a gradual de-emphasis on the name and an eventual change within 5 years.
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flymia
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 13):
You mean this poll?

Those polls are all fine and dandy but they didnt poll Native Americans themselves. I couldn't care less what people in Washington D.C. wanted. D.C. the PC capital of the world. Until a majority of Native Americans want the name change there is no reason to change it.
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Okie
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 20):
I've been visiting this site for over a decade now and finally decided to sign up as a forum member. I find it ironic that my first post on A.net is not about aviation, but as a football fan, I find this debate to be an interesting commentary on American society

Welcome

I have to agree with your analogy. I might add that with all the additional sources of media they have had to add additional sensationalism to try and get market share.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Having the name Washington in front of their name is an insult.

I have to agree on that one Superfly the fine folks in the state of Washington should be insulted.
They should be call the District of Columbia Redskins and fix the Nationals while they are at it.  

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ltbewr
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 20):
My point is that the team's name will ultimately be changed not because the name is objectionable, but because the media-manufactured frenzy over the name has radicalized both sides of the argument to the extent that Snyder (either on his own, or through pressure exerted by Tsar Goodell) will be forced to change it simply to remove the threat of bad PR from the organization and the league.


Consider that Washington, DC is the national capital and strongly enforces against other forms or discriminatory and objectionable brand names and the like so continuing the 'Redskins' is kind of a contradiction. I wouldn't be surprised that the name will be changed in the next 5-10 years and they may do it gradually. A first step
would be to phase out the use of the 'Indian Head' logo, to something else, then the name itself. One problem would be some way to keep the copyright, trademark and 'trade dress' of their Redskins current team name, logos and identifications from others illegally making and selling products after a change. Similar names of other sports teams and logos, like the Cleveland Indians, especially their offensive, cartoonish 'Chief Wahoo' logo should also make transitions to new names and logos.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:21 am

Quoting NOLAWildcat (Reply 20):
I've been visiting this site for over a decade now and finally decided to sign up as a forum member.

Welcome to the site!

You know I never found myself really all that concerned with this subject until I came to the University of North Dakota. We were called the "Fighting Sioux" until the NCAA in it's infinite wisdom decided it was offensive to Native Americans. One of my closest friends grew up on the Standing Rock Reservation and was appalled when they took the name away. He mentioned how Native children don't have a lot of positive figures to look up to, but the kids wanted to be a part of the University because it represented them. I remember him saying how he couldn't figure out how a University such as ours that explained in the beginning of every game what being a "Fighting Sioux" meant in such a respectful manner was forced to get rid of a name when the Seminoles could keep their name, and on the pro side of things you had the Redskins and the stereotypical Indians logo.

I think we have to sit down and look at these things. Do the Redskins have respectful showings during or before the games? Or do they have an Indian in a stereotypical headdress running down the field on a horse? I have no Native blood in me, so there I can't say first hand it is disrespectful, but from the outside looking in I would certainly say it is. I think if they want the debate to go away they have to go out themselves and change it. The NFL forcing them to change it is not a good thing to do. I remember the first hockey game after it was announced they would penalize us for keeping the name a chant that included the words "(Use your imagination) the N-C-A-A." The team has to move to change itself if there is serious debate about it. You don't want angry fans because it doesn't go away. This is our second full year of being just "North Dakota" and you still have angry fans and the Sioux chants are louder than ever. The Red Skins should make themselves out as an example of how to handle things.
Pat
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Maverick623
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:34 am

Personally, I really don't care what they call themselves... I am not a fan of the NFL team based in DC. Which leads me to this point:

Quoting flymia (Reply 21):
I couldn't care less what people in Washington D.C. wanted. D.C. the PC capital of the world. Until a majority of Native Americans want the name change there is no reason to change it.

It should be the opinions of the fans of the team that are held in higher regard. If they don't like the name, I support them in changing it. If they do, I support them in keeping it.


Also, I don't care because I am personally not offended by mere words or terms.
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WarRI1
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:50 am

Quoting maverick623 (Reply 25):
Also, I don't care because I am personally not offended by mere words or terms.

Every year it is something else. What is next? This PC is overwhelming us. I think the owners should have the last say. Now if this was a union issue, I certainly would not agree with the owners   
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vikkyvik
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:55 am

What about us actual Indians? Can we be offended by the Cleveland Indians??

I don't have a red face, dammit!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Having the name Washington in front of their name is an insult.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Leeches
Bloodsuckers
Albatross
Bureaucrats
Parasites

All the above suit Washington very well.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
The only Bears in Chicago in 2013 hang out in bathhouses which has nothing to do with the football team mascot.

My lord 'Fly, you are on a roll in this thread.   
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EA CO AS
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:28 am

Quoting 4holer (Reply 4):
I was against changing the name of Squaw Peak here in PHX to Piestewa Peak..

As was I, primarily because then-Gov. Janet Napolitano violated the law to do so; federal law required a 5 year waiting period from the time of someone's death to the time you could posthumously name a landmark after them specifically to avoid the knee-jerk, reactionary re-naming that took place here.

Of course 90% of the people I know still call it Squaw Peak, myself included.
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PHX787
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:34 am

Should they be forced to, like some on the left are suggesting? No.

They're a private organization. If they want to change, that's their call...or the NFL Commish's call.
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baguy
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:15 am

A similar example is a well known brand of cheese hear in Australia, Coon.

Now for many, that's an extremely offensive word, yet it still exists as a major brand.

BAguy
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:50 am

I've heard that the name Red Tails--the nickname given to perhaps one of the most famous USAAF combat units in World War II, the 332nd Fighter Group (composed of African-American pilots)--as a replacement name for Redskins.

I think Redskins owner Daniel Snyder is open to the change if the NFL league offices is willing to help defray much the cost of the name change--a cost that could run possibly as high as US$100 million.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting 4holer (Reply 4):
I hated when my college (Indiana Univ. of PA) changed the mascot from the Indians. (It's Indiana, PA for petes sake!)

Also a fellow IUP gradutate here...don't have much contact to IUP anymore so I missed all this. When did this take place and what do they call themselves now?
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casinterest
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:32 pm

I think they should change the name. When they moved the baseball team in from Montreal, they didn't keep "expos"
They might as well find something more agreeable. They should name them the Washington Partisan's. When the WH is controlled by a Republican, they wear Red. When the white house is controlled by the Democrats, they wear blue. When government shuts down, they wear yellow.
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WestJet747
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:44 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 26):
I think the owners should have the last say.

Must be a cold day in hell, WarRI1...I actually agree with you 100% on this one! At the end of the day, we should let the owners decide whether they keep the name or not, and it will be up to the market to decide whether the name is acceptable or not. If people are genuinely offended by the name/logo and find it offensive, it's up to those people to not support the franchise by giving them their business, or at the least voice their concern and convince others. Nobody, other than maybe the NFL's board or the Commissioner if stipulated in their contract, should be forcing the team to change their name.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Having the name Washington in front of their name is an insult.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Leeches
Bloodsuckers
Albatross
Bureaucrats
Parasites

All the above suit Washington very well.

Tell us how you really feel  
Quoting doug_Or (Reply 15):
If you had [real] Native American co-workers would you refer to them as a redskins to their face?

That would depend. I have a friend from Jordan who jokes about Muslim extremism more than anybody. Him and his cousin often jokingly refer to themselves as terrorists. My non-Muslim friends and I join in and it's all for laughs. There of course would be many, many Muslims who would be terribly offended by these jokes, but that's why we keep them to situations where there is no chance of offending anyone within earshot.

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 10):
Quite frankly unless you're Native American, your opinion is irrelevant.

And I guess because we're discussing an American football team that only Americans can have a relevant opinion?  
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 31):
like some on the left are suggesting?

This isn't even close to being a left vs. right issue. In fact, this morning on the radio they were quoting an extremely conservative commentator in the US supporting the name change.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 24):
We were called the "Fighting Sioux" until the NCAA in it's infinite wisdom decided it was offensive to Native Americans.

One of the more obnoxious decisions from the NCAA. UND was fairly tasteful in their use of the name (I was also a big fan of the logo). The real kicker is the whole "no name" thing. That part of the decision makes absolutely no sense.
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4holer
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:04 pm

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 34):
Also a fellow IUP gradutate here...don't have much contact to IUP anymore so I missed all this. When did this take place and what do they call themselves now?

I really have no contact either, haven't been back since the day of my last final in 1989, so I had to look it up myself, but they changed to the Crimson Hawks in 2006-7... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUP_Crimson_Hawks
Edit: corrected date after reading the whole wiki page...

[Edited 2013-10-21 10:06:30]
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WarRI1
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 26):I think the owners should have the last say.Must be a cold day in hell, WarRI1...I actually agree with you 100% on this one!

Ok. That reply gave me a real chuckle. I agree with you 100% also.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting andz (Reply 8):
few years ago some American patrons at one of the restaurants kicked up a stink because the restrooms were labelled Squaws and Braves

They were probably from the same PC brigade that recently threw a tantrum over a Dunkin Donuts ad in THAILAND and who obviously make living out of being "professionally offended" by literally everything.

The Dunkin' Donuts franchise in Thailand launched a campaign earlier this month for its new "Charcoal Donut" featuring the image, which is reminiscent of 19th and early 20th century American stereotypes for black people that are now considered offensive symbols of a racist era.
...
Human Rights Watch said it was shocked to see an American brand name running an advertising campaign that would draw "howls of outrage" if released in the United States.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...in-donuts-racist-ad_n_3842680.html

Except that the ad campaign ran in Thailand and I am nearly certain most Thais are not aware of nor really care about "American stereotypes for black people" whatever they are. I am not sure either.
At the same time, people like this clown (certain Phil Robertson from HRW Asia), who decided that Thais should be offended, are literally a gift from heaven for corporations like DD. Imagine the $$$ they saved on marketing for this new product thanks to free advertising Mr. Robertson arranged in the media. I only hope DD were grateful enough and sent him a box of free donuts. Preferrably plain ones, so he did not get offended again.

As a sidenote: It's probably a sign of things improving considerably in terms of human rights issues in Asia if NGOs like HRW have enough time to worry about "racist" donuts.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:51 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 36):
They were probably from the same PC brigade that recently threw a tantrum over a Dunkin Donuts ad in THAILAND and who obviously make living out of being "professionally offended" by literally everything.

Right now a lot of westerners are up & arms over the popularity of Hitler Fried Chicken.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 36):
if NGOs like HRW have enough time to worry about "racist" donuts.

Gosh it is time to kick those people out already!
Same for the UN.
Bring back the Concorde
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):
I say no. It has not been a big problem until the last few years. This country and the world is becoming too PC and everyone wants everything to please everyone.

The last few years? It's been a lot more than that, try since the 1960s. I remember in the early 90s, the Atlanta Braves were targeted by the American Indian Movement over the team name as well as the "Tomahawk Chop" motion and chant fans started to do around that time (stolen from FSU). This coincided with the club's emergence as one of the top teams in the NL, although there had been complaints in the past when the team had a mascot Chief Noc-A-Homa (which was also the name of the mascot in the team logo). Not too long ago, Braves got chastised for a rumored baseball cap design that would have featured the Braves logo from the 70s and 80s featuring a "screaming Indian". They've been putting similar pressure on the Cleveland Indians in addition to the Washington Redskins. There's also been the recent NCAA ruling that pretty much barred all Native American team names (Florida State and Central Michigan have been able to retain their team names as they have tribal approval for them. The University Of North Dakota was forced to dropped their longtime nickname because they couldn't get both Sioux nations in the state to approve the continued use of the name. Meanwhile, their teams are currently do not have a nickname, but the Fighting Sioux imagery lives on within Ralph Engelstad Arena, as thousands of the logo were placed all over the arena, making it difficult and time consuming to remove them all.

The Redskins name is politically incorrect in today's society and matter what is done, the end result will not be popular. What's interesting is that the Redskins franchise originated in Boston in 1932 as the Boston Braves (they played at Braves Field, where the Boston Braves MLB team played), moved to Fenway Park in 1933 and changed the name to the Redskins at that time. If the team had stayed with the Braves name, the controversy would be a bit muted.

Rename the team after the fictional Washington D.C. team from the movie "The Replacements", the Washington Sentinels.    What's interesting is that the Washington Senators trademark is listed as being owned by the Washington Nationals, which is interesting seeing as they opted to use the Nationals name instead of the Senators name (A prior copyright on the name was owned by the Texas Rangers during the years George W. Bush was one of the owners.). Would changing the name to the Washington Warriors be any less offensive?

I wonder if there's similar controversy in Canada over the Edmonton Eskimos name?
 
solarflyer22
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:39 am

I guess I don't understand why it became an issue all of a sudden after the supreme court essentially decided that the owner won. The media has jumped on this and pushed the story hard but the owner has flatly said no and the judicial process is complete. Its like Obamacare, you lost, its over. I don't really respect all the pundits that jumped in by refusing to use the team name. This is a bit like gay marriage in the sense that everyone suddenly piled onto the bandwagon.

If the native americans are ok with it, the owner and local fans are ok with it, then keep it. I'd make a $1million donation to native american tribes for college scholarships, thank them and close the matter out.

Having said that, the league can still force a change and I suspect that will eventually happen. Do the naysayers to the name also want the logo and icon to change as well as "Hail to the Redskins" the theme song? If the name is racist is not the logo and the song? Don't you have to change them all then?

It seems to me that if you renamed it to the Hogs (the old name for the OL) that might be the next best name. Hail To The Hogs? lol
 
Okie
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:06 am

I guess we will be in trouble in Oklahoma soon.

Coronado in 1541 gave the area the name derived the Choctaw Indian language from the inhabitants.

Okla= people
humma= red

Land of the red people.

So far the only dilemma has been which direction the huge bronze Indian statue on top of the State Capital Dome should be facing.

Okie
 
Superfly
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:58 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 38):
If the native americans are ok with it, the owner and local fans are ok with it, then keep it. I'd make a $1million donation to native american tribes for college scholarships, thank them and close the matter out.

  
I haven't heard Senator Elizabeth Warren complaining about it either.
Bring back the Concorde
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:12 pm

It's up to the owner and the fans. If the fans stop coming because of the name then change it otherwise this PC crap has gone too far. There are more pressing issues than the name of a football team. Next, the PC hipsters/lawyers will want White Cloud to be dropped from the Proctor and Gamble line of fine ass whipes (toilet paper)   
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
4holer
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RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:24 am

They should change their name to the Foreskins.
I've already been calling them that for years anyway...
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting 4holer (Reply 42):

So have I!

This whole PC thing has gone on steroids. If it wasn't so ridiculous it would be funny. I have to hand it to my generation the Baby Boomers for getting this hot mess started. If you want to change the name of the Redskins, Braves and other teams, then hell, we might as well take this PC garbage into the Twilight Zone. Here are some of my nominations for PC change and the scary thing is some hipster designer coffee drinking egg head lawyer will jump on the bandwagon and spend time and money to change these names.

1. Wandering Jew (plant)
2. Black Russian and White Russian (drinks)
3. White Cloud Toilet Paper
4. All references to United "Mainliners" will be illegal association with shooting up smack
5. Sheryl Crow will have to change her surname because birds that don't like her music could be offended.
6. Mr. Clean -Bald men wearing earrings who like dirt are offended.
7. Virgin-Atlantic, Galactic, America, Records, communications evoke sexual innuendos
8. Aer Lingus- Obvious sexual double entendre
9. Big Bang Theory (actual theory and TV show) Sexual references
10. Diver Dan (Old Black and White TV Kids show) Sexual reference again!
11. Bozo the Clown-Offensive to lawyers, Wall Street Banksters and politicians
12. Douche (products) see number 11
13. Pop Tarts-Offensive to scantily clad jailbait girls
14. Spam (mystery skanky meat product) Offensive to hard working souls who send out junk e-mail
15. Wild Cats (team name) Domestic felines could take umbrage. I'll have to ask my cat if she's offended by associating kitties with being wild.

I think you got my drift where this could go. Washington already had it's basketball team's name changed from Bullets to Wizards. They still lose. Oh well!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
victrola
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:16 pm

Does anyone think that we may soon have Americans of Scandinavian ancestry protesting about the Minnesota Vikings?
 
victrola
Posts: 715
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:42 pm

How about the "Fighting Irish"? That certainly perpetuates a negative stereotype.
 
us330
Posts: 3407
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:04 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Having the name Washington in front of their name is an insult

At the very least, it's geographically ignorant! Call em the Landover Lame-ducks instead (they don't do anything on the field anyway!)

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 22):
You know I never found myself really all that concerned with this subject until I came to the University of North Dakota. We were called the "Fighting Sioux" until the NCAA in it's infinite wisdom decided it was offensive to Native Americans.

The NCAA didn't decide that it was offensive--it deferred to the tribes. It told North Dakota that they couldn't use the name unless both Sioux tribes in North Dakota approved of its usage, and both haven't approved yet.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...t-north-dakota-fighting-sioux-name

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 22):
I remember him saying how he couldn't figure out how a University such as ours that explained in the beginning of every game what being a "Fighting Sioux" meant in such a respectful manner was forced to get rid of a name when the Seminoles could keep their name

Florida State keeps the Seminole name because the Seminole band in Florida explicitly supports and approves of the university.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/sp...ges-florida-state-has-harmony.html

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 38):
I guess I don't understand why it became an issue all of a sudden after the supreme court essentially decided that the owner won

They decided that the owner won because of the statute of limitations. It did not rule on the offensiveness of "Redskins." A SCOTUS ruling, however, does not prevent groups or individuals from using public pressure to get the team to change it's name.

This is one of the more interesting reads on the topic of why the name is controversial:
http://deadspin.com/redskins-a-nativ...-debating-an-inglorious-1445909360
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18831
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:40 pm

Quoting victrola (Reply 44):
Does anyone think that we may soon have Americans of Scandinavian ancestry protesting about the Minnesota Vikings?

If the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League were being established today, they'd almost certainly have a different name. "Eskimo" is now a derogatory term in Canada, unlike the U.S. "Eskimo" hasn't been used in Canada for years to describe the ethnic group in the Arctic regions. "Inuit" is now the preferred term in Canada.

Related recent news item re the Edmonton Eskimos name:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...dmonton+Eskimos/8967574/story.html

http://www.myclients.ca/webedit/customers/sawmill/images/eskimos/EdmontonEskimo.jpg

[Edited 2013-10-25 15:47:24]
 
zippyjet
Posts: 5077
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:10 pm

Where are the PC weenies in regard to Eskimo Pie the ice cream concoction? Some folks especially some hot strippers think Eskimoes went into the making of Eskimo Pie.   
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Should Washington Redskins Change Name?

Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:12 am

Sports broadcaster and commentator Bob Costas did a follow up on a radio show this past week on his SNF comments about the Redskins name. One of his follow up points is that in several dictionaries, the term 'redskin' includes definitions that it sometimes is an offensive term.
In Western movies of the 1940's to early 1960's, the term redskin was often used as a term to describe Native Americans (Indians) in usually a very negative way.
So lets think about it from those perspectives as to the use of the team name 'Redskins' with the NFL team.

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