User avatar
EA CO AS
Topic Author
Posts: 13441
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:28 am

Galling, since conservatives have been warning everyone about this for years.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_n...t-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

Fair-use excerpt:

President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC News that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent.


I'm just stunned that the media is finally getting around to allowing this story to see the light of day.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:07 am

It really is ignorance when people pick and choose publishing and elevating nonsense such as this to further their own political agenda. ACA was never going to be easy, and conservatives lambaste it every step of the way. For shame.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Topic Author
Posts: 13441
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:27 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 1):
It really is ignorance when people pick and choose publishing and elevating nonsense such as this to further their own political agenda

Why is this NBC News investigative piece nonsense? Please be specific; the article has been.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13850
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:33 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
I'm just stunned that the media is finally getting around to allowing this story to see the light of day.

Ahh that same old sad narrative, 'the media' has it out for the 'poor' conservatives and only 'allows' coverage that's slanted, sigh...

Perhaps if the GOP wasn't so busy trying to tank the economy, issues like this would get more coverage...

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 1):
conservatives lambaste it every step of the way

Indeed so. Their focus all along the way has been 'how can we get rid of this' instead of 'how can we make this better'?

The reason why is politics: it's been a Democratic goal for a very long time to improve health care. Most GOPers privately admit there is a huge problem needing to be solved. Unfortunately their ideology seems to prevent them from being involved in the solution, nor even proposing alternatives.

Ironically enough the approach being used is patterned after Massachusetts's RomneyCare, yet the GOP hates it...

Like Romneycare, once Obamacare is up and running most of this stuff will be a non-issue.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Topic Author
Posts: 13441
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:43 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Obamacare is up and running most of this stuff will be a non-issue.

Misleading (at best) or outright lying (at worst) to the American people is a non-issue? Please explain that to me, as I'm unfamiliar with how this concept works.

From the aforementioned NBC News piece:

President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

It's not only turning out to not be the case, but also that the Administration knew this was untrue:

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.


Again, help me to understand how this isn't newsworthy and is, in your words, a "non-issue."
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:57 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):

I'm sure it's all Bush's fault.
Or the media is just being racist now.
We can't expect Obama to actually take any responsibility in this...
Bring back the Concorde
 
JoePatroni707
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:58 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:32 pm

This program is anything but affordable. My insurance premium went from $200 a month for just myself to well over $500 a month. I WILL opt out. I will take my chances with their "fine". It will be challenged, it will get knocked down. No once can force someone to buy something.
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:55 pm

Surprise...surrpise. Wasn't it Nancy Pelosi that said something to the effect "We just have to pass this now...we'll have time to read the details later." ? regards....jack
all best; jack
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:01 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
No once can force someone to buy something.

If you pay taxes you are already being forced to buy something.

Instead of messing around with silly insurance stuff United States should just raise taxes and offer basic healthcare coverage to everyone, of course then those rich enough are free to use private services if they want to.

That's the way it should be.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
seb146
Posts: 13928
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:07 pm

So, when private industry does something, it is Obama's fault? Private insurance could, very easily, make policies that work under ACA law. What they are doing is taking the easy way out and blaming Obama.

It is getting really tiring to see the right keep whining about how they lost and have no new ideas. They don't do anything except blame Obama for non-existent problems. They are doing this and complaining about the web site (because their own party's governors were too lazy or mean to set up their own state exchanges) instead of working on a budget or coming up with their own health care plan or coming up with immigration reform.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:23 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
I WILL opt out. I will take my chances with their "fine". It will be challenged, it will get knocked down. No once can force someone to buy something.

I'd say they're doing a pretty good job. You'll buy it the way you're supposed to, or your fine will subsidise it anyway. Either way, you're buying it.

The fine will be $95 or 1% of gross for 2014, whichever is greater. If $6000 is greater than 1% of your gross, yes, yes you should opt out.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 8):

Instead of messing around with silly insurance stuff United States should just raise taxes and offer basic healthcare coverage to everyone, of course then those rich enough are free to use private services if they want to.

I agree, but when that was brought up as an option, the caterwalling from the usual suspects was just screechy enough to be heard, and that played in nicely with the ins lobby, so here we are. It could easily have been so much better by now, but a small group had to nix that for everyone.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
So, when private industry does something, it is Obama's fault?

Correct. I heard he also eats a baby with every breakfast...



I honestly don't understand why the insurance companies would want to use this opportunity to profiteer like that. They should be aware that there is enough frustration with ACA that it will likely be overhauled to something more socially acceptable and universal within a decade or two anyway. Raising rates now will only hasten that, and with it, their demise. Go figure.
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 8626
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:24 pm

http://www.providencejournal.com/bre...up-on-r.i.s-obamacare-exchange.ece


Rhode Island has a working site. Of course we took the money and did it right it seems. Of course the know it all states did not. Imagine our figures are going up also. Too bad people in the Red States can not use our site. I'll bet plenty of them would if given the chance. Read the thread about the five worst state for women, it seems to fit here also. I maybe wrong of course.

[Edited 2013-10-29 08:29:20]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
agill
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:27 pm

[url}http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/health/for-medical-tourists-simple-math.html[/url]
Seems like american patients are charged a lot for their medical treatment.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:31 pm

Wow, the reaction from the left is mind boggling. It's not "how are we gonna fix it" it's blaming the GOP for being stubborn and not working on their bill that's turning out pretty poorly! While I agree that the GOP shouldn't have been trolls the past few years and tried to improve this bill, come on Democrats, own up to your problems!

Blame private industry all you want, the end result is still pretty crappy. Not impressed at all
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
seb146
Posts: 13928
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:48 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
It's not "how are we gonna fix it" it's blaming the GOP for being stubborn and not working on their bill that's turning out pretty poorly!

They can't work on something whey they are being attacked at the same time. They can, but they are going to be chastised for that, too! No matter what Democrats do, they lose, in the eyes of the right. If Democrats scrap the whole thing, the right will say "why did you give up? We need to have hearings!" If they change it, the right will say "why did you change the plan you love? We need to have hearings!" If they do nothing, the right will say "why are you not doing anything? We need to have hearings!" Meanwhile, the right does not do anything but hold hearings. Why doesn't the right do something instead of trying to create a "gotcha" moment?
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
They can't work on something whey they are being attacked at the same time. They can, but they are going to be chastised for that, too! No matter what Democrats do, they lose, in the eyes of the right. If Democrats scrap the whole thing, the right will say "why did you give up? We need to have hearings!" If they change it, the right will say "why did you change the plan you love? We need to have hearings!" If they do nothing, the right will say "why are you not doing anything? We need to have hearings!" Meanwhile, the right does not do anything but hold hearings. Why doesn't the right do something instead of trying to create a "gotcha" moment?

Again, wah wah Republicans did X and didn't do Y. This is still a Democrat bill, OWN IT. And you're saying that if the Democrats try and fix it they'll just be "chastised by the right?" Who cares!? Do your job Democrats, don't get your feelings hurt if the right is mean to you.

I'm not saying scrap the ACA and I'm not saying I'm happy with how the GOP has been acting, but when I clicked this thread I thought I'd see comments along the lines of "wow, yeah, this bill I supported has major flaws. What can we do to fix it?" Instead it's a complete partisan blame game.

Some of the excuses are pretty weak... 'the insurance policies don't meet the criteria' and 'well this is just the private sector's fault!' This still all goes against the promises made, would not have happened if it wasn't for the ACA, should have been predicted, and if it's a genuine surprise (which it doesn't look like it is) a fix should be started immediately. To be fair, I'm only seeing what supporters and talking heads are saying, maybe the Democrat politicians are working to fix the issue. The individual mandate has been postponed, that is owning your mistake (the mistake being the website being all messed up)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
So, when private industry does something, it is Obama's fault? Private insurance could, very easily, make policies that work under ACA law. What they are doing is taking the easy way out and blaming Obama.

They could, but let's face facts: the minimum standard requirements are going to have an impact on what they can and will offer. It could be argued that if your insurance company ends your insurance but you can get a better value-for-money but more expensive plan on the exchanges you're still coming out ahead, and I would say that the tradeoff is worth it, but it's still people not being able to keep their insurance, and it's still people having to spend more (though they'd be getting much more for it). And people don't like that, particularly when the "if you like your insurance you'll be able to keep it" line got trotted out quite a bit, and I don't blame them.

I don't think that the state of things is nearly as bad as the GOP would have us all believe, and I do think that in the long run we'll come out ahead after some tweaks to the law are made, but I'm not going to begrudge people for being irritated by the effects of the complexity of the new system.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 8):
Instead of messing around with silly insurance stuff United States should just raise taxes and offer basic healthcare coverage to everyone, of course then those rich enough are free to use private services if they want to.

That would be the most sensible solution, provided the basic coverage is really just basic. But for some reason government-run healthcare makes a lot of people angry, despite the fact that those on Medicare seem to like it a lot and don't want the government to get involved in it. Go figure.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:33 pm

Recent history always comes in handy:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/1...-helped-Republicans-save-BushCare#

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/24/2828261/hearing-post/

Yes, that's the same Joe Barton who is currently pissing all over the ACA expressing thoughts about bipartisanship and patience.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 8):
Instead of messing around with silly insurance stuff United States should just raise taxes and offer basic healthcare coverage to everyone, of course then those rich enough are free to use private services if they want to.

   We might actually have a functioning society if Republicans stopped trying to convince everyone that the government is nothing but pure evil, ruining everything it touches.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
Again, wah wah Republicans did X and didn't do Y.

Delta, I respect your general middle of the road position on most things, and you are good about providing sane, rational arguments to defend your position, but I think you tend to get lulled into the false equivalency that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in many ways. Be careful about that.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
I'm just stunned that the media is finally getting around to allowing this story to see the light of day

It's only because they already know more is going to come out so they might as well tell it before the Obama Administration says it that way they won't appear as conspiratorial.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Again, help me to understand how this isn't newsworthy and is, in your words, a "non-issue."

Just more noise to try to deflect attention from the issue at hand.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Democrats, own up to your problems!
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
This is still a Democrat bill, OWN IT

What? Surely you jest!  
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
Do your job Democrats, don't get your feelings hurt if the right is mean to you.

  

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 17):
We might actually have a functioning society if Republicans stopped trying to convince everyone that the government is nothing but pure evil, ruining everything it touches.

I can hear the "society" and their komrads in lock-step now.  
Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 17):
Be careful about that.

What? Is that supposed to be a threat?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8576
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Like Romneycare, once Obamacare is up and running most of this stuff will be a non-issue.

Keep telling yourself that.

The justification for radically overhauling health insurance was the so-called crisis of 30 million Americans without insurance. The "solution" could cause up to 10 million Americans to lose the coverage they had when roughly 80% of people were satisfied with their insurance before Obamacare. A pissed-off demographic the size of Georgia is not a non-issue.

[Edited 2013-10-29 10:44:24]
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5566
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:57 pm

This following quote is not the words of the OP. It is a quote from the article linked in the first post, and also quoted by the OP

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
....But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance.....

.....who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law.....

I wonder about using the word 'insurance' to describe the existing plans.

The standards mandated under the new law include things like:

1) The maximum payable benefits must be in excess of 60% of the total annual premiums.
2) The plan must have a wellness benefit - i.e. annual physicals
3) The plan must have an emergency room benefit
4) The plan cannot require out-of-pocket expenses above approx. $6,350 for individuals or $12,700 for families.

Many, if not most, of the healthcare plans from traditional insurers being cancelled are 'high deductible' plans. (Such as the 119,000 Blue Shield and 160,000 Kaiser Permanente policy holders notified recently that there policies do not meet minimum essential coverage cannot be renewed after Jan 1 in California).

These 'high deductible' policies really only cover major hospitalizations - and then only after the covered person has paid a lot of money - in some cases as much as $25,000. These plans are not 'insurance' in the traditional sense.

Yes, the cost to many rich yuppies will be higher. And some poorer folks will be caught in the requirement for a real value insurance policy.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 17):
Delta, I respect your general middle of the road position on most things, and you are good about providing sane, rational arguments to defend your position, but I think you tend to get lulled into the false equivalency that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in many ways. Be careful about that.

I'm actually not trying to say which side is better or worse. What I'm hearing (from some people) is that the bill is turning out the way it is because the GOP wasn't there to help fix it. Again, I'm very unimpressed with the GOP, but I just see all this as deflecting blame. There is a problem here and it wouldn't have been here if the ACA wasn't here. Maybe the insurance companies aren't acting like it was predicted... instead of blaming them, we need to face that reality and find a solution. Maybe the ACA's requirements are too high and too quick. I don't know.

When I see the ACA getting attacked unfairly, I argue and defend it, standing next to the other supporters of it. But when we see the problems it's accidentally causing and I turn around to criticize it, everyone else (seems, IMO) to be acting as apologists for it. Shout out to Mir in reply 16 though, pretty much agree with him there and his tone seems more clam then mine

As Jon Stewart said recently (severely paraphrasing it) "I like the ACA but the administration is making it so hard to defend sometimes." Again, I need to see the official reaction, I realize no one here on the board has any authority on this issue
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13850
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Misleading (at best) or outright lying (at worst) to the American people is a non-issue?

You haven't provided evidence of that. All you've provided is:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate

Given a common definition of "lie" is "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood" you haven't met that standard. Given the climate where a large group of Congressmen were willing to wreck the economy just to score political points, I'm going to need more than that.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 8):
Instead of messing around with silly insurance stuff United States should just raise taxes and offer basic healthcare coverage to everyone, of course then those rich enough are free to use private services if they want to.

That's the way it should be.

  

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 10):
I agree, but when that was brought up as an option, the caterwalling from the usual suspects was just screechy enough to be heard, and that played in nicely with the ins lobby, so here we are. It could easily have been so much better by now, but a small group had to nix that for everyone.

Indeed ACA falls far short of what many liberals would have liked to see.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
when I clicked this thread I thought I'd see comments along the lines of "wow, yeah, this bill I supported has major flaws. What can we do to fix it?" Instead it's a complete partisan blame game.

I'm surprised you'd have that expectation after the events of the last few months...
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:42 pm

Well, I would agree that some, any, transparency would (should) help the Government's cause----unless, of course, there is something to hide  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ogizes-for-healthcaregov-failures/

From the AP so hopefully they are not just telling us "lies" like the usual Fox stories.  

In any event the numbers only tell part of the initial failures.
While plenty of people who stand to gain from Obamacare are trying to sign-up-------------all the young generation that is intended to finance the Obamacare plan are NOT.
Not a good start.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:32 pm

Oh, and as for misinformation, leave it to Rangel to try to muddy the waters--------- http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ed-for-social-security-sidetracks/
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6631
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
These 'high deductible' policies really only cover major hospitalizations - and then only after the covered person has paid a lot of money - in some cases as much as $25,000. These plans are not 'insurance' in the traditional sense

You know what, that is exactly what medical insurance was some time ago...major medical. You didn't use it for a cold, you used it for appendicitis or a heart attack or a car accident.

Bottom line is that the president said:

"If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-xA3WiL2Xo

But, that isn't true, is it? In the case of these folks, upwards of 14 million people will not be able to keep the insurance they have.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
The standards mandated under the new law include things like:

So, the all-knowing, all-benevolent government knows what's best for these folks? I understand...we are all stupid and our politicians in Washington know what is best for us., I now await one of them to come and wipe my nose and ass...hopefully, in that order.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
So, when private industry does something, it is Obama's fault? Private insurance could, very easily, make policies that work under ACA law. What they are doing is taking the easy way out and blaming Obama.

Actually, they are. They are sending out cancellation notices for their current policies and telling these folks that the policies do not meet the mandates in the Democrat Party passed ACA. I suspect that most of these folks will have no problem getting insurance that meets the mandates, but they will pay more because the ACA mandates a higher level of benefits.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...amacare-makes-stunning-admission/#
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6678
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
They can't work on something whey they are being attacked at the same time. They can, but they are going to be chastised for that, too!

So the Democrats actually listen to the noise that the GOP put out and refuse to govern,hhhhmmm, that is as bad a receipe for grid lock as the Tea Party.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
No matter what Democrats do, they lose, in the eyes of the right. If Democrats scrap the whole thing, the right will say "why did you give up?

There is a problem, address it, we are told that the majority of the nation supports health care and that in the last election they went to the polls to confirm it, that was the basis of the Democrats sticking to their guns in the debt and government shutdown debacle. Now you are saying that they are listning to the Tea Party and will do nothing?

One cannot refuse to govern because of critics, especially the vocal minority, if nothing is done because the Dems are waiting for the Tea Party to get onboard those disenfranchised by the inaction will become support fodder for the Tea Party and anyone who opposes the new laws. Just because one aspect has a problem does not mean that all is bad, Americans are usually a forgiving bunch as long as you are honest with them and they see that you are working on the problem. Blaming the GOP cannot be seen as action if the shutdown and debt ceiling had no bearing on the problem.
Should we expect to see stories that the web site is not working properly because staff were off during the shutdown?
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1689
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:01 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 26):
Should we expect to see stories that the web site is not working properly because staff were off during the shutdown?

I think, (I will try to find them) there were stories out there that blamed some of the glitches on the shutdown, or rather the lack of resolved problems.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
Too bad people in the Red States can not use our site. I'll bet plenty of them would if given the chance.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...me-states-obamacare-plans/2986795/

State exchanges turn out to cost more for insurance due to lack of available options, and options are even more limited in rural areas of some states. So while the Federal exchange has problems so do the states. The state's problems seem to be more related to the bill itself.

This whole thing should not really be a surprise to anyone the ACA had a minimum mandate of coverage and many existing plans did not cover those minimums. Then in 6 months to a year there will be public outrage that ACA does not actually address the cost of healthcare and really is only an expensive insurance mandate. Obama lied and Democrats willingly passed an imperfect bill, and there is problems. Simply unpredictable!

     
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:11 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 19):
The "solution" could cause up to 10 million Americans to lose the coverage they had when roughly 80% of people were satisfied with their insurance before Obamacare.

They'll still be able to get other coverage, and in the long term I think they'll be happy with it. That's not to say that their frustration isn't valid, but it's not like they're going to become uninsured like some people are insinuating. Unless they want to be, of course.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
What I'm hearing (from some people) is that the bill is turning out the way it is because the GOP wasn't there to help fix it.

That's a stretch, but it is true that the GOP was in a good position to do some fixing of the bill and tried to can it entirely instead, and did so without putting out an alternate plan in writing that could be compared with the ACA. It is the Democrats' bill, and they're going to take most of the responsibility for the problems, but the GOP hasn't put a lot of effort into making itself part of the solution.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
There is a problem here and it wouldn't have been here if the ACA wasn't here.

But there would be other problems, and the problems we had with the healthcare system beforehand were significant.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 7610
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Galling, since conservatives have been warning everyone about this for years.

Is that so ? I was hearing things about death panels and scrapping the law and repealing it and unseat Obama and defunding it.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 25):
"If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-xA3WiL2Xo

But, that isn't true, is it? In the case of these folks, upwards of 14 million people will not be able to keep the insurance they have.

Does Obama/government have the power to force private companies to cover these people ? Can't such companies cancel the contract pretty much anytime and do it routinely as soon as you start costing them money ?

Maybe the promise was foolish, but those not liking the ACA usually are in favor of "free market, less regulations", etc.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5566
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:29 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 25):
You know what, that is exactly what medical insurance was some time ago...major medical.

I remember those days.

Which were before a simple physical exam cost more than two weeks pay. Before taking two kids in for shots cost more than dinner at the fanciest restaurant in town.

When the removal of a kid's tonsil's could be paid to the doctor and hospital in weekly payments - and the total bill was less than a week's salary.

If you can find a place with health care at those rates today, I'd agree that only Major Medical is a plausible insurance policy for ordinary people.

And I'd like to move there.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):
That's a stretch, but it is true that the GOP was in a good position to do some fixing of the bill and tried to can it entirely instead, and did so without putting out an alternate plan in writing that could be compared with the ACA. It is the Democrats' bill, and they're going to take most of the responsibility for the problems, but the GOP hasn't put a lot of effort into making itself part of the solution.

Yeah, I mean the GOP dragging their feet added to the overall problem. I'm just saying this is a major problem in the ACA and I'd rather see some solutions rather than GOP blaming. It could have been as simple as "your new insurance will be better and cheaper" (and then provide proof that it would be) but the promise was that you could keep your old insurance. We can rationalize and tiptoe around that as much as we want, but it's turning out to not be true. But like I said, you touched on all that already, I think we agree on about 95% of this

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):
But there would be other problems, and the problems we had with the healthcare system beforehand were significant.

Yes there would, not denying that. I know you're not saying this, but many do: basically covering one problem with a slightly less bad problem. It's good that we're fixing a broken system but if the fix is flawed, we still need to address it rather than settling with it because the outcome is supposedly better
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Stabilator
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:42 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:33 am

"If you like your insurance plan, you can keep you insurance plan. Period."

Love this guy  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E

Nice little montage of his repeated promise. P.S ignore the dumb, idiotic comments.

[Edited 2013-10-29 17:35:55]
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:41 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
Too bad people in the Red States can not use our site.

You've indirectly hit the nail on the head as far as the GOP's continued opposition to the ACA. The party has boxed itself into a corner where the ACA must fail at all costs. Let's assume for a moment the very real current issues are fixed in reasonable time. If the ACA then starts delivering as expected and most uninsured/underinsured find adequate coverage at prices below current levels, politicians in red states might face a backlash from their constituents angry they're denied some of the benefits of the ACA.

Opposition against the ACA isn't solely an ideological fight, it is a battle for political survival as well.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
this bill I supported has major flaws.

The implementation has major flaws, but the bill itself isn't bad at all. I don't consider it a flaw that it sets minimum standards for insurance, but in fact a necessity, especially requiring hospital coverage, since it is usually the most expensive element of healthcare anyway. It would be like having a car insurance that doesn't cover accidents...

Obviously it would have been far better if Obama had qualified his statements about keeping existing coverage to plans that fell within the bounds of the law, but at the same time, if figures I have read are correct, he was spot on for 90% of existing coverage.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
What I'm hearing (from some people) is that the bill is turning out the way it is because the GOP wasn't there to help fix it.

It isn't an entirely false argument. Often in the process of negotiating over a bill to win (some) converts from the other side, flaws are found and fixed. The GOP refused to participate so far less people than usual read the bill thoroughly and had the opportunity to fix issues before it became law. Personally though I prefer to blame the authors of the bill, that is what proof-reading is for, although I suppose that they expected some back-and-forth as well and, like the first round of any negotiation, probably included some provisions they didn't expect to see the light of day without major revision...
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 33):
It isn't an entirely false argument.

Perhaps it's not, but I would hate for it to be an excuse to settle for something. Don't really think how much blame the GOP should take really makes much of a difference when it comes with moving forward and achieving results.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 8626
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:45 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 33):
Opposition against the ACA isn't solely an ideological fight, it is a battle for political survival as well.

I agree, it is most certainly a political issue. Does anyone think the Democrats do not know the repercussions if this does not work? I think they are pretty confident in the end game, after all they are trying to stay in power also. I have to laugh about the website hoopla. It is desperation, fear that the law will work. The numbers are growing here, so I have to think that as was said, if it does work, watch out in the Red States as far as political repercussions go.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:10 am

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 17):
but I think you tend to get lulled into the false equivalency that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans in many ways. Be careful about that.

It's a convenient cop out we see a lot. It's unfortunate, but some people don't quite get that one side really can just be straight up wrong sometimes, and that in a lot of cases, the facts really aren't "somewhere in the middle" or wherever we want them to be at the moment.

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 32):

"If you like your insurance plan, you can keep you insurance plan. Period."

Why would you like a plan that doesn't meet the standard? They can't cost more than a small percentage of your income and have to cover more than they did before.

You can only call that statement a lie if you're being blatantly partisan. . .
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
Ken777
Posts: 9048
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:47 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Misleading (at best) or outright lying (at worst) to the American people is a non-issue?

Are you talking about the Democrats or the Republicans who "forgot" the challenges of Bush's Rx introduction.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy.

A 40 to 67 percent in insurance turn over by definition addresses people who leave a policy on their won, or who have been kicked off because of traditional reasons - like non payment of premiums.

That doesn't even address those sham policies that takes lawyers to get performance on paying bills.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):

Again, help me to understand how this isn't newsworthy and is, in your words, a "non-issue."

Changes in minimum standards have been know for a long time. Why is it all of a sudden an "issue"?

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
My insurance premium went from $200 a month for just myself to well over $500 a month.

What kind of policy did you have? And what are you getting? Deductible and, more importantly, co-pays?

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
No once can force someone to buy something.

Nope, you're right there. You can't be physically forced, but you can be fined. You can also get some serious bills with even a minor problem, and you can be tossed to debt collectors if you don't pay.

And you also can cost us more in insurance because of cost shifting.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 8):
Instead of messing around with silly insurance stuff United States should just raise taxes and offer basic healthcare coverage to everyone, of course then those rich enough are free to use private services if they want to

That makes too much sense, especially for the business community,

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 10):
If $6000 is greater than 1% of your gross, yes, yes you should opt out.

You're forgetting co-pays. Not smart.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
It's not "how are we gonna fix it" it's blaming the GOP for being stubborn and not working on their bill that's turning out pretty poorly

People with pre-existing conditions in their family believe it's working out pretty well. College grads with challenges finding a job are pretty appreciative of that coverage until they are 26.

The outsourced work to private companies are the parts that are turning out pretty poorly.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
come on Democrats, own up to your problems!

Not that difficult - or no more than the problems of the start of the Rx Program.

Maybe working on them like we did with W's Drug problems would help.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Blame private industry all you want, the end result is still pretty crappy

And the crap was developed under outsourcing - the GOP preference over government employees.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
No matter what Democrats do, they lose, in the eyes of the right.

The right is still having problems why they lost the 2012 Election. And the GOP is playing the same games that cost them that election.

Maybe they can bring in Sarah Palin for some help.         

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
This is still a Democrat bill, OWN IT.

Just like Bush owned the problems with his Rx program?

Give it some time - like W was given - and it will work out. If the private sector delivers on their contracts.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
Some of the excuses are pretty weak... 'the insurance policies don't meet the criteria'

Say you insurance company is XYZ Insurance. Google "lawsuits against XYZ Insurance"

Now tell me how weak setting standards is.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
well this is just the private sector's fault!'

'
The private sector can do good work - just look at Apple.  -O )

At the same time companies who got contracts on the ACA could have pulled out the profits from those contracts instead of pushing for improved performance on the work they were doing.

Quoting LittleFokker (Reply 17):
Yes, that's the same Joe Barton who is currently pissing all over the ACA expressing thoughts about bipartisanship and patience.

Election 2014 is going to be interesting. First the short down of the government (at least once by then) and the willingness to have the government default.

Now we have some really choice quotes from Banana Republicans - great found bites that can be run with their comments fro Bush's Prescription FUBARS. What a great comparison for political ads around the country.

Especially for nut jobs like Barton.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
These 'high deductible' policies really only cover major hospitalizations - and then only after the covered person has paid a lot of money - in some cases as much as $25,000. These plans are not 'insurance' in the traditional sense.

And, to be honest, that deductible is only one part - even when it is ultra high. Co-Pays can easily be a bigger killer than deductibles.

Get a medical problem like my wife and the deductible pales in comparison to the $100,000+ in co-pays.

But the deductible game is a neat one to play on younger people who believe they are free of those types of risks.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 22):
Indeed ACA falls far short of what many liberals would have liked to see.

The ACA actually falls short of what moderates would like to see. Employers are still stuck with that dead weight of nanny care impacting both their budgeting and the profitability. Move on that problem and the ACA is improved dramatically.

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 25):
You know what, that is exactly what medical insurance was some time ago...major medical. You didn't use it for a cold, you used it for appendicitis or a heart attack or a car accident.

Some time ago there was only one chemo drug for al types of confer. There was no CT Scanners. MRIs', laparoscopes, Di Vinci robots, etc.

Now we find problems faster and few people die - or at least dies as fast. People can be treated for a far lower cost. (My wife drove me into the hospital parking lot at 11 AM, went into the OR at noon to get rid of the gall bladder and we drove out of the parking to at 3 pm. Four hours instead of 3 or 4 days. And all because I didn't wait to go to the doctor.

BTW, many medical problems are allowed to get far worse because patients don't go to the doctor fast enough. A friend has a son who waited a pretty long time when he had a swollen testicle. When it started generating pain he finally went - with Stage IV cancer. Could have been a lot cheaper if he had gone faster.

Looks like there are benefits for insurance companies when their policy holders go to doctors early instead of letting the problem get worse.
 
Stabilator
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:42 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 36):
Why would you like a plan that doesn't meet the standard? They can't cost more than a small percentage of your income and have to cover more than they did before.

You can only call that statement a lie if you're being blatantly partisan. . .

Why are you skirting the issue? That is what he said. Now that is turing out not to be the case.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 31):
I'm just saying this is a major problem in the ACA and I'd rather see some solutions rather than GOP blaming.

So would I. But if the GOP is going to sit on the sidelines and do nothing but hurl insults at the law and at the Democrats, I'm going to call them out on their tactics of not doing anything meaningful about it. If they want to offer some suggestions for fixing it (i.e. not getting rid of it or postponing it), I'm all ears. But I haven't heard anything.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:28 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 42):
So would I. But if the GOP is going to sit on the sidelines and do nothing but hurl insults at the law and at the Democrats, I'm going to call them out on their tactics of not doing anything meaningful about it. If they want to offer some suggestions for fixing it (i.e. not getting rid of it or postponing it), I'm all ears. But I haven't heard anything.

Oh I totally agree. I just saw some people suggesting we sit on our hands and grumble about the GOP not doing anything. Screw it, progress without them. I do wish they'd help out though...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
seb146
Posts: 13928
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:33 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
This is still a Democrat bill, OWN IT

And we are. And we are told we are jerks for supporting a flawed web site that, we are starting to learn, was set up by a company who supported right wingers!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/stevefriess/...amacare-website-donated-heavily-to

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
And you're saying that if the Democrats try and fix it they'll just be "chastised by the right?" Who cares!? Do your job Democrats, don't get your feelings hurt if the right is mean to you.

They are doing their job. And being chastised for it! They are getting the web site fixed. The web site that crashed because right-wing legislatures in right-wing states refused to set up state run exchanges like we have in California or Kentucky.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
the bill is turning out the way it is because the GOP wasn't there to help fix it.

Because their only goal is to say "NO!" to everything that Obama and Democrats do. That is their only motive. That is all they do. That is all they have.

Quoting par13del (Reply 26):
There is a problem, address it, we are told that the majority of the nation supports health care and that in the last election they went to the polls to confirm it, that was the basis of the Democrats sticking to their guns in the debt and government shutdown debacle. Now you are saying that they are listning to the Tea Party and will do nothing?

Re-read what I said. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. The media hates Democrats. The far right hates Democrats. The far right owns the media.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):
I just saw some people suggesting we sit on our hands and grumble about the GOP not doing anything. Screw it, progress without them. I do wish they'd help out though...

Democrats are trying, and have been trying to progress without Republicans. Problem is: when ANY Republican suggests being bipartisan, tea leaders scream bloody murder and accuse the RINOs of hating America and the worst Americans ever and so forth. The only thing the tea people know is to say "NO!" to absolutely ANYTHING anyone but them comes up with.

Here is a solution: Get rid of these jerks and put in REAL politicians. Politicians we had in the 1970s and earlier. Those who understood that we are all in this together. Those who understood that there are a million shades of grey and not just "my way or the highway." 2014 can not come soon enough for us true patriots!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6678
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:16 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 33):
although I suppose that they expected some back-and-forth as well and, like the first round of any negotiation, probably included some provisions they didn't expect to see the light of day without major revision...

Something like what was done with the sequester, see how well that one worked. The GFC did create or introduce the minimum hour rule for bills in the house to be read by members, guess one expects too much of them to actually read the bills that they are voting on, wonder what the aides and other staff member do, is it something like the sitcom Yes Minister where they are the ones actually running the government and putting their thoughts and ideas into the bills?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
And we are. And we are told we are jerks for supporting a flawed web site that, we are starting to learn, was set up by a company who supported right wingers!

So sabotage.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Re-read what I said. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. The media hates Democrats. The far right hates Democrats. The far right owns the media.

I always thought that other than Fox News the Dems were the darling of the media.
However, they still have to govern in spite of who the critics are, so..........
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:40 pm

Buried in the OP's somewhat-hysterical post is this little gem:

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law

So the plans that are being cancelled are illegal ... which is why they are being cancelled.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
So, when private industry does something, it is Obama's fault? Private insurance could, very easily, make policies that work under ACA law

Precisely.

While the "you can stay on your policy" quote is a nice soundbite for the right, I think it is fair to say that Obama believed that the insurance companies would make the necessary tweaks to keep their policies from being illegal. Instead they just cancel them. That is, at best, laziness if not intellectual masturbation on the part of the insurance companies.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
seb146
Posts: 13928
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 42):
I always thought that other than Fox News the Dems were the darling of the media.
However, they still have to govern in spite of who the critics are,

It is really hard to govern when the opposition controls one chamber of Congress. Look what happened when one faction of one party decided they controlled the entire country. They shut down the government and nearly defaulted on the debt and cost us $24 billion. How can the party in control of the White House govern effectively when one faction of one party believes they are the be all and end all and they are the only ones to be appeased?

As far as "media darlings" you really should do research into who controls the media in this country. LA Times was just bought by right-wingers as was the Chicago paper, IIRC. The only "media" Democrats are darlings of is the internet because we can very easily fact check from the comfort of our computer screens.

Quoting par13del (Reply 42):
So sabotage.

I wouldn't go that far, but....
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):
Galling, since conservatives have been warning everyone about this for years.

I hate to say I told you so.....but it pretty damn well warrants it.


My mom worked for an insurance agency when that thing passed....she said that there was zero chance people would be able to keep their insurance based on the method of implementation and costs involved.


And to make this worse, Obama lied to us about this. "You can keep your current insurance" my ass.

I'm gonna have to make sure I don't have another run-in again  
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:58 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
And we are told we are jerks for supporting a flawed web site that, we are starting to learn, was set up by a company who supported right wingers!
Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
They are doing their job. And being chastised for it!
Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Because their only goal is to say "NO!" to everything that Obama and Democrats do. That is their only motive. That is all they do. That is all they have.

So? The Democrats should be able to push forward just fine despite all this.

I do think I am listening to supporters too much and not the actual people in charge. We'll have to see how they react. I'm just surprised from some of the reactions I'm seeing

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
The web site that crashed because right-wing legislatures in right-wing states refused to set up state run exchanges like we have in California or Kentucky.

Are you saying that it was a surprise that so many states didn't set up their own exchanges and the feds couldn't do anything about it?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Problem is: when ANY Republican suggests being bipartisan, tea leaders scream bloody murder and accuse the RINOs of hating America and the worst Americans ever and so forth.

That is a huge problem. Anytime anyone tries to reach across the aisle they get chastised and coined with that annoying term "RINO." Ugh
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 8626
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 45):
Quoting EA CO AS (Thread starter):Galling, since conservatives have been warning everyone about this for years.
I hate to say I told you so.....but it pretty damn well warrants it.


My mom worked for an insurance agency when that thing passed....she said that there was zero chance people would be able to keep their insurance based on the method of implementation and costs involved.


And to make this worse, Obama lied to us about this. "You can keep your current insurance" my ass.

I'm gonna have to make sure I don't have another run-in again

Lies and distortions are the policy of healthcare so far from the Republicans. Hysteria is their method of delivery. What a joke, time will tell, and 2014 is coming. We will then see what the people think of the ACA. Of course we thought that was answered by the 2012 election. We need term limits for all the fools, liars and distorters we have in DC.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9048
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
And we are told we are jerks for supporting a flawed web site that, we are starting to learn, was set up by a company who supported right wingers!

That's actually pretty funny. Just like all the quotes from Obama Hating Politicians on the ACA Disaster and just the opposite comments when it was W who had a similar disaster with the Rx program.

Right now the Banana Republicans need to increase hate levels as much as possible because the systems will be improved reasonably fast. This is a type of program that will have bump at the start by those who couldn't get insurance before and then things will slow down until the deadline for signing up hits. RomneyCare showed that pretty clearly, thee showed a major jump before the fines hit. Looking at RomneyCare we can project a need for a major increase in computing power to be in place and tested by January.
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1689
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Obama Adm Knew Millions Would Lose Health Ins!

Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:06 pm

The government passes a law and says that all those that supply oranges can only supply them if they are over 2.5 inches in diameter. People are kind of weary of law, so government says "You will still be keep buying the oranges you have been." Media reports that people will no longer be able to buy the oranges that government stated. Some people outraged that this is true and want repeal/change of law to include previous oranges. Others blame the companies that sell the oranges. Riveting story isn't it?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 48):
possible because the systems will be improved reasonably fast.

We'll see, they thought they were prepared for roll out on October 1. While they have been focusing on the logging in and enrolling portion, I'm not sure they have even begun to address that the insurance companies are getting data with massive holes and errors in it yet. Although, that is just speculation on my part, but that is one of the less publicized problems, but much more complex to solve because the government contractors need to work with the different IT and database structures of each individual company as opposed to a one size fits all fix.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 48):
his is a type of program that will have bump at the start by those who couldn't get insurance before and then things will slow down until the deadline for signing up hits.

Exactly right, it is hard to extrapolate any conclusions on anything at this point.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 47):
Lies and distortions are the policy of healthcare so far from the Republicans. Hysteria is their method of delivery. What a joke, time will tell, and 2014 is coming.

Republicans aren't the only ones that lie or create hysteria. All media and parties do it in some way or another to push their agenda. If we are honest, do you really believe that you can make viable conclusions about the ACA with a reasonable amount of data by next year? I don't, any hysteria made during campaign season about it from both sides will just be lies and rhetoric. This is because we will have to wait several years to understand many of the positive and negative affects that this bill has now that it is here.

We do know about some problems now, and it just seems to be politics as usual on both sides.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot], scbriml and 9 guests