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Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:54 pm

Hot on the heels of the gazillion investigations into Benghazi, these bright sparks are proposing this:

https://diplopundit.net/2017/01/05/sena ... lly-opens/

They are threatening to cut security funding to ALL US missions across the world, if the US embassy in Israel doesn't move to Jerusalem.
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BestWestern
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:55 pm

American politics is a very poor example of democracy to the rest of the world. Pork barrel spending and basic blackmail (like this one) is nothing short of moral corruption.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
einsteinboricua
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:37 pm

But...but...emails!
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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moo
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:21 pm

Why isn't such blatant pro-Israeli position over everything else not treated as treason in the US?

The only reason to force a move of the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem is to put the US stamp of approval on the illegal occupation of Jerusalem, and to use the security of all other embassies and missions as leverage to do so is nothing short of treason - these people are trying to force the US to legitimise another countries position. They are blatantly putting another countries interests above their own countries.
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:33 pm

moo wrote:
Why isn't such blatant pro-Israeli position over everything else not treated as treason in the US?

The only reason to force a move of the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem is to put the US stamp of approval on the illegal occupation of Jerusalem, and to use the security of all other embassies and missions as leverage to do so is nothing short of treason - these people are trying to force the US to legitimise another countries position. They are blatantly putting another countries interests above their own countries.


Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a natural consequence of Obama's recognition, via the UN vote 2 weeks ago, of the 1967 border so that West Jerusalem is now officially recognized as part of Israel and therefore the Israeli capitol. I'm sure that wasn't the effect he intended, but he never was too smart. There were good reasons for the previous policy which he threw out. By that vote (which we now know Obama engineered via other compliant countries), both Israeli and Palestinian positions are now further entrenched and intransigent. Good job...
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flyingturtle
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:46 pm

What do you think, guys?

Do 150 kilotons suffice to flatten D.C.?



:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

David
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:04 pm

moo wrote:
Why isn't such blatant pro-Israeli position over everything else not treated as treason in the US?

The only reason to force a move of the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem is to put the US stamp of approval on the illegal occupation of Jerusalem, and to use the security of all other embassies and missions as leverage to do so is nothing short of treason - these people are trying to force the US to legitimise another countries position. They are blatantly putting another countries interests above their own countries.
Exactly correct. And as long as Israel has blind US support the current leaders in Israel will not want peace in the region. They are still in expansion mode as they have been since 1948. They know that as long as they can keep things stirred up, new opportunities to snatch land will keep unfolding. They are intentionally undermining any opportunity for peace in the region.

Israel, in the form of the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), was the instigating force for the US's ill considered invasion of Iraq; and currently is the driving force to get the US into a war with Iran.

Donald Trump's plans are putting Jordan's King Abdullah into a corner with his own people.
http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/lo ... trump/746/

The hardliners in Israel would love to turn Jordan into a hostile state so that they could have an excuse to snatch off a chunk of Jordan's territory.
As long as the US keeps funding Israel, this circumstance will continue.
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moo
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:54 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
moo wrote:
Why isn't such blatant pro-Israeli position over everything else not treated as treason in the US?

The only reason to force a move of the US Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem is to put the US stamp of approval on the illegal occupation of Jerusalem, and to use the security of all other embassies and missions as leverage to do so is nothing short of treason - these people are trying to force the US to legitimise another countries position. They are blatantly putting another countries interests above their own countries.


Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a natural consequence of Obama's recognition, via the UN vote 2 weeks ago, of the 1967 border so that West Jerusalem is now officially recognized as part of Israel and therefore the Israeli capitol. I'm sure that wasn't the effect he intended, but he never was too smart. There were good reasons for the previous policy which he threw out. By that vote (which we now know Obama engineered via other compliant countries), both Israeli and Palestinian positions are now further entrenched and intransigent. Good job...


Sorry, but that isn't the outcome of the resolution - the text specifically mentions East Jerusalem alongside the Palestinian Territories precisely because when Israel occupied it in 1967 the pre-dominent population of East Jerusalem was Muslim and Christian Palestinians, hence it is regarded the same as the West Bank and the Gaza strip and other areas.

In contrast, West Jerusalem is *not* regarded the same as the other Palestinian Territories because when it was occupied in 1949 it was mainly populated by Jews (although Arabs were large land owners in West Jerusalem - land which the Knesset passed laws to steal) - and as this resolution is about Israeli occupation and activities in the occupied Palestinian Territories, there is no need to mention West Jerusalem.

Therefor, this resolution in no way changes neither the UN nor the US stance on West Jerusalem, it simply isn't referenced in this resolution, and its absence does not constitute an acceptance or normalisation by anyone.

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Pyrex
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:12 pm

I don't think any threats are needed.... if people think Trump will not do this move at his first opportunity, without anything prompting him, they are underestimating him as bad as they have been until now.
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lugie
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:00 pm

This is madness...

But who'd have thought that the exact same Republicans who have been leading a witch hunt against Hillary Clinton about Benghazi for the 8th year now think cutting security from every US embassy worldwide is a good idea to get their way?!

And they dare call liberals crybabies...
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:58 pm

lugie wrote:
This is madness...

But who'd have thought that the exact same Republicans who have been leading a witch hunt against Hillary Clinton about Benghazi for the 8th year now think cutting security from every US embassy worldwide is a good idea to get their way?!

And they dare call liberals crybabies...


Just report them for threatening national security. Then they'll get a knock on the door early in the morning for their troubles.
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:43 am

lugie wrote:
This is madness...

But who'd have thought that the exact same Republicans who have been leading a witch hunt against Hillary Clinton about Benghazi for the 8th year now think cutting security from every US embassy worldwide is a good idea to get their way?!

And they dare call liberals crybabies...
It's not about the country, it's all about the party.
 
Hillis
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:02 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a natural consequence of Obama's recognition, via the UN vote 2 weeks ago, of the 1967 border so that West Jerusalem is now officially recognized as part of Israel and therefore the Israeli capitol. I'm sure that wasn't the effect he intended, but he never was too smart. There were good reasons for the previous policy which he threw out. By that vote (which we now know Obama engineered via other compliant countries), both Israeli and Palestinian positions are now further entrenched and intransigent. Good job...


Moving the embassy to Jerusalem and cutting security will be a good way to get American Diplomats killed. But I'm sure if that happens, you won't call for dozens of investigations like we had for BENGHAZI!, and you'll find a way to exonerate the GOP.

This is just a terrorist attack waiting to happen. We now have a GOP that is in Russia's lap and cares not for American diplomatic security. That smells like treason to me.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:29 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
But...but...emails!

Yeah investigating Clinton's behaviour and corruption was such a bad thing.
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:31 pm

Hillis wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a natural consequence of Obama's recognition, via the UN vote 2 weeks ago, of the 1967 border so that West Jerusalem is now officially recognized as part of Israel and therefore the Israeli capitol. I'm sure that wasn't the effect he intended, but he never was too smart. There were good reasons for the previous policy which he threw out. By that vote (which we now know Obama engineered via other compliant countries), both Israeli and Palestinian positions are now further entrenched and intransigent. Good job...


Moving the embassy to Jerusalem and cutting security will be a good way to get American Diplomats killed. But I'm sure if that happens, you won't call for dozens of investigations like we had for BENGHAZI!, and you'll find a way to exonerate the GOP.

This is just a terrorist attack waiting to happen. We now have a GOP that is in Russia's lap and cares not for American diplomatic security. That smells like treason to me.


You don't know what treason is. Take a look at how John Kerry gave comfort to the north Vietnamese during the Vietnam war. That what's real treason is.

This is moving an embassy to the Capitol of Israel like it should have been for decades.
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:01 pm

AAPilot wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a natural consequence of Obama's recognition, via the UN vote 2 weeks ago, of the 1967 border so that West Jerusalem is now officially recognized as part of Israel and therefore the Israeli capitol. I'm sure that wasn't the effect he intended, but he never was too smart. There were good reasons for the previous policy which he threw out. By that vote (which we now know Obama engineered via other compliant countries), both Israeli and Palestinian positions are now further entrenched and intransigent. Good job...


Moving the embassy to Jerusalem and cutting security will be a good way to get American Diplomats killed. But I'm sure if that happens, you won't call for dozens of investigations like we had for BENGHAZI!, and you'll find a way to exonerate the GOP.

This is just a terrorist attack waiting to happen. We now have a GOP that is in Russia's lap and cares not for American diplomatic security. That smells like treason to me.


You don't know what treason is. Take a look at how John Kerry gave comfort to the north Vietnamese during the Vietnam war. That what's real treason is.

This is moving an embassy to the Capitol of Israel like it should have been for decades.


Can't have a capital on land which is internationally recognised as being illegally occupied...
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:03 pm

moo wrote:
Can't have a capital on land which is internationally recognised as being illegally occupied...


That was the US (and international) position until 2 weeks ago, which is why no countries kept embassies in Jerusalem even though the Israeli government and Knesset is there. This ill-considered resolution changes that. Point 3 in the text explicitly recognizes the 1967 border, where Jerusalem was already mostly in Israel (with the notable exception of the Old City and Temple Mount.), and explicitly says no changes to the 1967 border will be considered or accepted. Well guess what, that means there is nothing hindering Jerusalem's status as Capitol, as the Israeli government buildings in Jerusalem are well within the 1967 borders.

It was a stupid resolution, and now you have all the anti-israel folks sputtering, "but wait, that's not what we meant!" Hilarious on one side, sad on the other, because this makes a negotiated settlement even harder to achieve than before.
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Hillis
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:09 pm

AAPilot wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
But...but...emails!

Yeah investigating Clinton's behaviour and corruption was such a bad thing.


So you're OK investigating Trump for his conflicts of interest?
Peace
 
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moo
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:23 am

Dreadnought wrote:
moo wrote:
Can't have a capital on land which is internationally recognised as being illegally occupied...


That was the US (and international) position until 2 weeks ago, which is why no countries kept embassies in Jerusalem even though the Israeli government and Knesset is there. This ill-considered resolution changes that. Point 3 in the text explicitly recognizes the 1967 border, where Jerusalem was already mostly in Israel (with the notable exception of the Old City and Temple Mount.), and explicitly says no changes to the 1967 border will be considered or accepted. Well guess what, that means there is nothing hindering Jerusalem's status as Capitol, as the Israeli government buildings in Jerusalem are well within the 1967 borders.

It was a stupid resolution, and now you have all the anti-israel folks sputtering, "but wait, that's not what we meant!" Hilarious on one side, sad on the other, because this makes a negotiated settlement even harder to achieve than before.


Again with the stupid interpretation of the UN resolution - I refer to my previous post on that matter which shows why you are wrong.

Repeating your position doesnt make you any less wrong, Dreadnought, it just makes you look like you don't read anything which doesn't agree with you.

The UN and the US stance on West Jerusalem has not changed because of a simple omission from a UN resolution of which it was not a topic - the same resolution didn't mention the Golan Heights, because the Golan Heights was not the topic of the resolution.

The UN resolution also didn't normalise the status of the Chinese islands and the Chinese territorial claims around that area, because oddly enough they were not the topic of the resolution - just like West Jerusalem, the Golan Heights and other non-Palestine related areas.

The resolution only covered Palestinian related areas. And that doesn't change the status of other areas.

Do I need to use simpler words for you to understand?
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:27 am

I find it utterly amazing that some people cannot grasp the basic fact that you can talk about particular things in isolation without implying a brand new position on the things you aren't talking about right at that moment in time.

Does the UN and the US have to list its positions in every single topic each time it talks about a single one of them? No, because that would be ludicrous - but some people here are implying that that is exactly what has to happen to maintain those positions...
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:17 am

AAPilot wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
But...but...emails!

Yeah investigating Clinton's behaviour and corruption was such a bad thing.


It was a splendid thing to do. Now they are probably the only couple in the USA that can say that they are not just innocent because they couldn´t be proven guilty, but proven innocent after the GOP spend 6 times the annual budget of the ethics commission on investigating them and digging up nothing of any relevance.

They should have gotten billboards "100 Million taxpayer money - your money - wasted on hassling law abiding citizens."

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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:47 am

flyingturtle wrote:
What do you think, guys?

Do 150 kilotons suffice to flatten D.C.?



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Think you're overkilling it on a grand scale. Get a pair of Davy Crockett bombs... Take out who you want without leveling D.C.
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:49 am

Dreadnought wrote:

Moving the embassy to Jerusalem is a natural consequence of Obama's recognition, via the UN vote 2 weeks ago, of the 1967 border so that West Jerusalem is now officially recognized as part of Israel and therefore the Israeli capitol. I'm sure that wasn't the effect he intended, but he never was too smart. There were good reasons for the previous policy which he threw out. By that vote (which we now know Obama engineered via other compliant countries), both Israeli and Palestinian positions are now further entrenched and intransigent. Good job...


Questioning someones intelligence because they disagree with you is what is called an ad hominem attack.

The idea of relocating the US Embassy to Jerusalem has been a wet dream of the religious right for quite sometime. It's part of their little end of the world fantasy. Basically they are nothing more than a death cult.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:52 am

AAPilot wrote:
Yeah investigating Clinton's behaviour and corruption was such a bad thing.


Where were all the investigations into the Bush Administrations manipulation of intelligence that was used to launch a war that we all know now to be based on a lie? Oh, that's right the same people who were calling for investigations into Clinton could not be bothered with the death of 4000 Americans and god knows how many Iraqi's.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:58 am

AAPilot wrote:

You don't know what treason is. Take a look at how John Kerry gave comfort to the north Vietnamese during the Vietnam war. That what's real treason is.
.


Speaking out against a ruinous war based that accomplished nothing but to get Americans needlessly killed is treason? Wish more people had spoke out earlier against it. Maybe 58000 Americans and close to a million Vietnamese might still be alive.

Oh, and buy the way Kerry unlike our soon to be president actually served in that war.
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solarflyer22
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:13 am

This is basically fratricide. I am shocked that this kind of behavior is even slightly tolerable in the US. He should be impeached the moment he espouses actually threatening his own citizens.
 
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:13 am

LMP737 wrote:
Questioning someones intelligence because they disagree with you is what is called an ad hominem attack.


Forming an opinion on a man you have been observing for a decade is hardly ad hominem. Obama was touted as the smartest man ever to become president - I never saw any hint of evidence of that, and his pre-presidential history does not support this accolade either.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:18 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Obama was touted as the smartest man ever to become president - I never saw any hint of evidence of that, and his pre-presidential history does not support this accolade either.


Whereas Trump.... :rotfl:
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LMP737
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:58 am

Dreadnought wrote:

Forming an opinion on a man you have been observing for a decade is hardly ad hominem. Obama was touted as the smartest man ever to become president - I never saw any hint of evidence of that, and his pre-presidential history does not support this accolade either.


No, what you have done is from the opinion that since you don't agree with someone they are obviously less intelligent than you.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:39 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Questioning someones intelligence because they disagree with you is what is called an ad hominem attack.


Forming an opinion on a man you have been observing for a decade is hardly ad hominem. Obama was touted as the smartest man ever to become president - I never saw any hint of evidence of that, and his pre-presidential history does not support this accolade either.


Smarter is impossible to judge, how can you compare him to someone who was president centuries ago ?

Smart, well, show me someone who "graduating with a JD degree magna cum laude[93] from Harvard in 1991" and is stupid and I might reconsider.

He's not saying he's smart all the time though, as if to reassure himself, unlike someone else I can think of...
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:05 pm

Aesma wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
Smarter is impossible to judge, how can you compare him to someone who was president centuries ago ?.


you can be reasonably sure that pretty much no person from centuries ago would be considered especially intelligent by today's standards. If you talked to the founding fathers, there is a good chance that you will consider them educated, but rather stupid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
Smart, well, show me someone who "graduating with a JD degree magna cum laude[93] from Harvard in 1991" and is stupid and I might reconsider.


In the early 90s at Harvard, about a third of the whole class "graduated magna cum laude", and nearly 75% graduated "with honors". It's an easy way of making your grads look good to employers. Harvard has since cut back on that practice.

Every single person who ever became president is generally pretty damned smart, compared to most of us. The lowest estimated IQ of all the presidents was 120. But Obama certainly did not seem smarter than anyone else - in fact he has always appeared to be philosophically very incurious. Which is the mark of an ideologue by the way. he has an ideology that explains everything - why be curious about how things actually work? It just gets in the way...

tommy1808 wrote:
you can be reasonably sure that pretty much no person from centuries ago would be considered especially intelligent by today's standards. If you talked to the founding fathers, there is a good chance that you will consider them educated, but rather stupid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect


I would tend to disagree. Granted back then fewer people were educated, but those who were were probably better educated than your typical graduate today. How many people today would be able to debate Plato's Republic vs the ideas of John Locke and Reuseau and Hobbes, in Greek, Latin, or French - and actually understand the concepts rather than repeating Cliff Notes.

The basic study of foundation philosophy - which used to be covered in classes like Civics - is unknown to modern students. It is the subject that covers questions of "why are we here, where did we come from, and where are we going" are approached.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:45 pm

Dreadnought wrote:

Every single person who ever became president is generally pretty damned smart, compared to most of us.
.


Except for Obama right?
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Hillis
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:01 am

LMP737 wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:

Every single person who ever became president is generally pretty damned smart, compared to most of us.
.


Except for Obama right?


Obama is probably one of the most intelligent people ever to be President, as far as from his breadth of knowledge. He's up there with the likes in modern times of Kennedy, Nixon and Clinton. FDR was incredibly intelligent, both intellectually and politically, as were Truman and LBJ. Ike, Carter, Ford and Bush41 were not on the same level intellectually, but they all understood not only this nation but the world as a whole. Bush43 isn't a bright bulb, but Trump makes George W look like a Rhodes Scholar.

And maybe on one level, Trump is "smart". But he isn't intelligent. He's ignorant about the world; he's ignorant about how government works, and he's so self-centered that he cannot use what intelligence he might have towards anything constructive. All you have to do ls look at his Twitter wars to see how ignorant the man is.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:47 am

It'd be great to have Trump undergo an IQ test...

I bet he'd hide those results more than even his tax return.

The man can barely construct a grammatically correct sentence and has admitted himself he doesn't read. Everything in his speech, actions and behavior hint at someone with a minimal understanding of the World around him.
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:06 pm

Francoflier wrote:
It'd be great to have Trump undergo an IQ test...

I bet he'd hide those results more than even his tax return.


But he said he has a tremendous IQ! His intelligence is totally unpresidented!

(Wharton School he attended requires a minimum SAT of 1500, which correlates with an IQ between 145 and 149. But this is for freshmen; Trump transfered there as a junior. - http://www.snopes.com/donald-trumps-int ... -quotient/ )


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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:50 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
How many people today would be able to debate Plato's Republic vs the ideas of John Locke and Reuseau and Hobbes, in Greek, Latin, or French - and actually understand the concepts rather than repeating Cliff Notes.


Just about anyone i went to school with can do so in one or two of those languages, plus German and Englisch. Ok, my Latin is pretty much dead 20+ years later. Everyone in my history double credit class could actually do that even with an eye to the US and early French constitutions .......

And why have they been so good in discussion philosophy? Because that was pretty much all they had + Math. The understanding of physics, chemistry and biology the normal people have today outstrips everything the whole of mankind knew back them. They didn´t know about the facts of evolution, they didn´t even to begin something as crazy as quantum psychics and positively loathed it when the fact demonstrated it is probably true.

It is the subject that covers questions of "why are we here, where did we come from, and where are we going" are approached.


Well, since you always have concerned christian Taliban parents that will not permit discussing the real facts about those things, it has gotten a little hard to teach those things.In the real secular France students still learn that, in Germany ~half of the students opt out of Religon classes and take ethics or philosophy instead.

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Thomas
Every single person still supporting Trump would have, without a doubt, made a fine career in Hitler's SS!
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:49 am

What the US should really do is remove any consular representation in Israel.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
seb146
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:45 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Smart, well, show me someone who "graduating with a JD degree magna cum laude[93] from Harvard in 1991" and is stupid and I might reconsider.


In the early 90s at Harvard, about a third of the whole class "graduated magna cum laude", and nearly 75% graduated "with honors". It's an easy way of making your grads look good to employers. Harvard has since cut back on that practice.

Every single person who ever became president is generally pretty damned smart, compared to most of us. The lowest estimated IQ of all the presidents was 120. But Obama certainly did not seem smarter than anyone else - in fact he has always appeared to be philosophically very incurious. Which is the mark of an ideologue by the way. he has an ideology that explains everything - why be curious about how things actually work? It just gets in the way...


Which is why he was always talking with people. And listening to them. That is probably why you righties got all upset with him meeting with working class people and the "beer summit" and such. He takes an interest in all Americans, not just the ultra rich...
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Pyrex
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:59 pm

Francoflier wrote:
It'd be great to have Trump undergo an IQ test...

I bet he'd hide those results more than even his tax return.



So, like Obama's academic records, then?

Anyway, not sure how this evolved into a discussion of presidential intelligence, but the topic itself is mute, since I would be shocked in the US Embassy to Israel does not move to the country's capital, Jerusalem, within the first 100 days of the Trump administration.
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BawliBooch
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:53 am

I dont think Donald Trumpji is going to let the likes of Little Marco and the fat clown from New Jersey set the tone for US foreign policy.

After the inauguration, Donaldji is going to consult with other world leaders like Putinji, Kim Jong ji, Mugabeji & ofcourse Modiji and come out with a concrete plan of action to combat terrorism and create more jobs in America. Together they are goin to make America great again!

These pseudo-liberal testicular whiners need to take a hike (to Canada). I am sure Donaldji has a plan for US policy on Israel, and its goin to be Yuuuge!
 
BestWestern
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:59 am

The world will be fine with Donald. The countries that matter won't bow to his games.
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GDB
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:05 pm

Hate to interject on such a lively discussion but just to note that the CIA have been asked by their counterparts in Israel not to pass any intel of theirs to Trump, since they fear (or know for sure), that it will end up on Putin's desk, then possibly on to Iran, (though Russia and Iran may yet end up butting heads over their two very different objectives in Syria).
 
salttee
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:43 pm

GDB wrote:
Hate to interject on such a lively discussion but just to note that the CIA have been asked by their counterparts in Israel not to pass any intel of theirs to Trump, since they fear (or know for sure), that it will end up on Putin's desk, then possibly on to Iran, (though Russia and Iran may yet end up butting heads over their two very different objectives in Syria).
Although I believe there may well be substance to this charge, I have to as for your source.

I'm sure Britain's MI6 will be taking a step back on their information sharing with US intelligence while we have Trump in office, probably other western nations too. But that's just opinion of mine.
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:08 am

aerorobnz wrote:
What the US should really do is remove any consular representation in Israel.


It has consular representation in countries that have done far worse, why not Israel?
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:28 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
What the US should really do is remove any consular representation in Israel.


It has consular representation in countries that have done far worse, why not Israel?

close them too. No need for representation in those countries either
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:12 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
What the US should really do is remove any consular representation in Israel.


It has consular representation in countries that have done far worse, why not Israel?

close them too. No need for representation in those countries either


Why would you close embassies in countries like China which you have such huge economic ties with?
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:21 am

Just had a discussion on Facebook. I stung into a hornet's nest...

Beside the usual diversionary tactics (somebody: Palestinians openly celebrate it when a Jew is stabbed! Israelis never do that! - me: *links to a picture of Israelis rallying to support Alon Azaria, a convicted murderer* - somebody: But, but, but, Azaria got sentenced!!! - me: ...as is every Palestinian who stabs an Israel and gets apprehended).

Many people love Israel so much that their judgement is muddied, and are unable to make a logical argument.

Some people said that they can found their "Palestine" in Syria, in Jordania, or somewhere else. Funny thing is - Theodor Herzl supported founding a Jewish state in a place called "somewhere else". That is, Uganda.

And I was dumbfounded to read "The Palestinians only need to read the Torah, and then they would understand. They have no rights in Israel."

Jewish supremacy? Wasn't there a country in Europe which enforced Aryan supremacy over somebody else?

I'm frustrated. I feel helpless.



David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
salttee
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Re: Rubio/Cruz/Heller threaten to cut diplomatic security if US emb isn't moved to Jerusalem

Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:09 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Many people love Israel so much that their judgement is muddied, and are unable to make a logical argument.

That's not love, that's zealotry.
"Good genes, very good genes, Ok, very smart, the Wharton School of finance, very good, very smart."

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