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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:22 am

mmo wrote:
If the political parties gave one hoot, they would have no issues with another binding referendum. But as TM has said, the voters have made their chioce. Albeit on a non-binding referendum.

So if there is another vote and they vote stay, does that mean that during the re-entry phase the previous Brexiters could get another vote on leave, what would make the second vote the real choice versus the first?
So far there have been no mass demonstrations on a daily basis against Brexit, the folks fighting against the choice has been the politicians, even during the snap election more people voted for the Tory party than before, they lost seats but not because of a lower vote count, so what did that vote mean?
Maybe they got confused because both parties campaigned on respecting the results of the referendum....
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:49 pm

The EU made a nice graphic for the ones a bit slow to understand:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/m ... k-homepage

Image
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:39 am

Well it would be a perfect chart except for one minor detail, missing about 6 demarcation red lines, other than that, good job.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:07 am

Nice graphic, so May chose which Brexit you want, the ball is in their court.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:41 pm

EU, schmEU.

This news has Brexiteers wetting themselves with Christmas joy - the UK will return to blue passports rather than the EU standard maroon colour (despite the minor fact the EU never actually mandated the UK to change to maroon passports).

Never mind 'divorce bills', trade deals and future relationships, the UK gets blue passports back! Yay for us. The likes of Farage can't wait to see Johnny Foreigner cowering in fear at the sight of our mighty blue passports again. :sarcastic: :banghead:

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Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:59 pm

I just don't get that obsession with the blue. French passports were also blue and so what ?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:12 pm

scbriml wrote:
EU, schmEU.

This news has Brexiteers wetting themselves with Christmas joy - the UK will return to blue passports rather than the EU standard maroon colour (despite the minor fact the EU never actually mandated the UK to change to maroon passports).

Never mind 'divorce bills', trade deals and future relationships, the UK gets blue passports back! Yay for us. The likes of Farage can't wait to see Johnny Foreigner cowering in fear at the sight of our mighty blue passports again. :sarcastic: :banghead:

Image



Yeah! First true success for the Brexiteers! All the blue passport can enjoy queuing in the line for non-EU passports, enjoy your blue passports guys!
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:04 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Yeah! First true success for the Brexiteers! All the blue passport can enjoy queuing in the line for non-EU passports, enjoy your blue passports guys!


But there will be special "Blue UK passport" lines, surely? :liar:

Nigel Farage's Brexit checklist....
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:06 am

Nobody gives a shit about the passport colour and the idea that anyone voted for or against EU membership on the basis is absurd.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:15 am

EU countries can choose whatever colour they want for their passports. Croatia has a blue EU passport.

The difference between a blue Croatian passport and a blue UK passport will be that the Croatians can use the fast-track lanes for EU citizens only, where such fast-tracks exist.

The UK politicians may negotiate to have those fast-tracks opened for UK citizens? That's one minor issue to either settle or ignore.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:52 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Nobody gives a shit about the passport colour and the idea that anyone voted for or against EU membership on the basis is absurd.


Then you clearly haven't watched or listened to the news in the UK since this was announced. There are plenty of people who see the blue passport as a symbol of the UK as a World power and that getting it back is "sticking it to the man" in the EU. It's small-mindedness bordering on mental illness.

One man interviewed on the street claimed as soon as anyone showed their blue passport, the authorities would immediately recognise them as being from the UK. His reaction when told around 70 other countries in the World, including North Korea, also have blue passports was a stunned "Oh.... I didn't know that." :banghead:

Image

Farage reiterated his Christmas-Brexit phrase to the BBC before adding the decision was something to savour, saying “it is the first, real, tangible victory that we have had since the referendum and it something that we should all celebrate”.
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:30 am

scbriml wrote:
Farage reiterated his Christmas-Brexit phrase to the BBC before adding the decision was something to savour, saying “it is the first, real, tangible victory that we have had since the referendum and it something that we should all celebrate”.


You should celebrate everything in life, even the small ones.

But remind me again, a victory of what and whom?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:52 am

If that is all the Uk wanted, that should have been said. I am sure the EU would have find a Britsh special clause so you can have a pink passport with unicorns if you want...

If that is a victory, it makes the negotiations a bit pointless, as the Uk seems to have lost any rational thought...
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:
But remind me again, a victory of what and whom?


A victory for all the small-minded "Little Britains" who want to live in the 1950s. It simply illustrates how shallow many Brexiteers thinking is.
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:03 pm

The government has said blue passports will mean enhanced freedom for Britons, but EU officials have said they could spell travel delays and extra paperwork because of diminished travel rights post-Brexit.

Guy Verhofstadt emphasised that there was no Brussels regulation stating that EU countries’ passports had to be a certain colour. There is a legally non-binding European Council resolution from 1981 which recommends burgundy.

Verhofstadt tweeted on Saturday:

Guy Verhofstadt (@guyverhofstadt)

There is no EU legislation dictating passport colour. The UK could have had any passport colour it wanted and stay in the EU https://t.co/bkQX0T0F2Q
December 23, 2017





and

On Thursday the Home Office announced the return of the blue British passport, to a chorus of approval from Brexiter newspapers and politicians. The irony is that the UK could have had a blue passport while an EU member. EU member state Croatia currently has a blue passport, after all. In any case – the “iconic” blue passport was imposed from abroad back in 1920 – thanks to the the League of Nations.

The EU never mandated burgundy passports: it simply produced a standard format that many member states chose to use for the sake of convenience. I imagine that the then UK government assumed that nobody cared that much about the colour of passports. It’s now clear that apparently trivial symbols of national identity are very meaningful for a lot of people. We’ll never know whether, had the government reintroduced blue passports when complaints first arose, the expense and disruption of Brexit could have been avoided.

After Brexit we will still have to follow the ICAO standard and US demands if our passports are to be recognised abroad

Passports also make an interesting case study on sovereignty, the concept so dear to Brexiters. Passports illustrate the limits of sovereignty in an interconnected world. As a sovereign state after Brexit, the UK will have the right to design passports in whatever way it chooses. But other states also have sovereignty: they have the sovereign right to decide which passports they accept for entry into their territory. The modern passport, since its introduction in the early 20th century, has always been a matter for negotiation between sovereign states. Transnational institutions and superpowers have often imposed requirements on supposedly sovereign states.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:20 pm

Olddog wrote:
There is no EU legislation dictating passport colour. The UK could have had any passport colour it wanted and stay in the EU


Of course. Hence my ridiculing of those that are celebrating the change.
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:26 am

Happy New Year all :champagne:

I hope that the negotiations will be as entertaining that year :mrgreen:

And if BoJo is the new Brexit man as rumored on the guardian,I am ready for the show.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:56 am

Happy new year. :champagne: :candle: :champagne:

The year of truth for the Brexiteers, hopefully, something will be worked out which will keep the UK somewhat close to the EU.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:06 pm

Nice EU debate at the Oxford Union: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lejApTm503M
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mmo
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:40 pm

Looks as there is another fly in the ointment with respect to the "benefits" of Brexit. Ooops...forgot to mention that!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... uk-imports
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:18 pm

That should raise concerns at Airbus or BMW.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:46 pm

seahawk wrote:
That should raise concerns at Airbus or BMW.


Not for Airbus as aircraft and aircraft parts are exempt from VAT anyway. However, any car importer or manufactureer will be hit. With slightly more than 50% of the parts imported from the EU, this will mean an significant increase in capital costs. Moreover, as some supply chains involve two times importing before the end product is finalised.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:55 pm

Since VAT is a tax that is passed on to the consumer, why is this a problem?
One would assume that the Remainers would be pushing this bill in parliament as it will show up more of the 17+ million who voted leave as being out of touch.
On the Leave side, business who have been taking advantage of the Custom Unions advantages will now finally have to pay their fair share of tax like everyone else.
Unfortunately you have to read articles from multiple sources to get more of the story, the benefit I'm talking about is the delayed accounting on EU imports.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42595875
 
mmo
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:43 pm

par13del wrote:
Since VAT is a tax that is passed on to the consumer, why is this a problem?
One would assume that the Remainers would be pushing this bill in parliament as it will show up more of the 17+ million who voted leave as being out of touch.
On the Leave side, business who have been taking advantage of the Custom Unions advantages will now finally have to pay their fair share of tax like everyone else.
Unfortunately you have to read articles from multiple sources to get more of the story, the benefit I'm talking about is the delayed accounting on EU imports.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42595875


I would suggest you re-read the article. The issue is currently the VAT is paid post import. The change is the VAT will not be paid PRE IMPORT. This puts a SEVERE strain on cash flow as the goods are not even in your possession yet and you have to pay the VAT. It's not about paying or not paying your "fair share". How would you feel if you had to pay your income tax in a year prior to your earning the money. That's the change....
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Bongodog1964
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:51 pm

As a person who completes a VAT return and thus has a little knowledge of how it works, there appears to be some complete ***** being talked here. The rules are as follows:

If you import goods from the EU there is no VAT payable

Outside of the EU you pay VAT at the point of import, (Large importers don't pay immediately) When you complete your quarterly VAT return you offset this against the VAT you have charged on sales.

It does make a difference to cashflow, any company however that is brought to its knees by this is probably close to collapse anyway. It also places imports from the EU on the same footing as imports from the rest of the World, and the same footing as goods bought in the UK.

You don't pay pre import, you pay at the time, just as employees in the UK have their income tax deducted on pay day.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:29 am

What is really frightening is that this becomes "news" eighteen months after the referendum. While it should be obvious to any fairly informed voter before the referendum.

Is this an indicator of the general level of how informed the UK population is? Hope not. If that is the case, then Brexit is certainly one of the minor problems across the Channel.

But it is only a minor issue compared to many other Brexit related issues. Just more paper work, more waiting at the borders, and an increase of the credit in the bank, and everything will be just fine. If your bank won't accept that credit increase, then you are likely on the way out of business anyway.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:40 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Is this an indicator of the general level of how informed the UK population is? Hope not. If that is the case, then Brexit is certainly one of the minor problems across the Channel.


Seriously? You expect the average Joe on the street to know and understand how post-Brexit VAT on imports would work? :rotfl:

You must be real fun at the office Christmas party.
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:23 pm

If this is news 18 months in it is because the issue of Brexit is only now being addressed, all that has taken place so far is attempts by politicians and business leaders on either side of the spectrum to ensure that they put their stamp on the issue.
Related to that, has anyone really looked at and started working out the financial hit that the country will take to get the talks to shift towards trade?
The EU said the UK would pay and pay they will, where the funds are coming from has to be looked at since the EU will continue to control the bulk of the trade while expecting their payment to allow trade while not allowing increased tariffs because it will increase domestic prices to affect consumers while NHS needs more funds which have to come from somewhere, the military is in dire straits so maybe the EU Army makes more sense now, etc etc etc etc
Citizens have reasons for putting their faith and trust in politicians and civil servants to provide services, however, Brexit is put up as such a fundamental life changing item that so much of the real core issues are being hidden and not discussed. Example, we are now hearing that there will be a post created for someone to thrash out the leave with no deal position, really, after saying from day one that no deal is better than a bad deal, you are finally going to look into that AFTER making the financial commitments to the EU?
The mind boggles.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:46 pm

[b][/b]
par13del wrote:
If this is news 18 months in it is because the issue of Brexit is only now being addressed, all that has taken place so far is attempts by politicians and business leaders on either side of the spectrum to ensure that they put their stamp on the issue.
Related to that, has anyone really looked at and started working out the financial hit that the country will take to get the talks to shift towards trade?


Apparently there were some detailed studies, on a sector by sector basis. "Excruciating detail" was the word.

Response to Freedom of Information request reveals Brexit department claimed to be preparing impact assessments in November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... idnt-exist

And then there were no more.

Davis confirms there are no sectoral impact assessments on Brexit
https://www.ft.com/content/269edd91-fb2 ... 0fe6acfe02

And in the end it turns out there were, but for the most part were useless. An intern effort, at best.

MPs published 39 Brexit sectoral reports on the last day of Parliament
http://uk.businessinsider.com/governmen ... ts-2017-12

It's all very Brexit. Chest-thumping to denial to humiliation once the whole thing is out in the light.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:59 pm

We know it was not a co-ordinated effort since no one compiled all the documents etc and passed them on to the Cabinet to be a part of the policy positions that the government would take in the negotiations, (my opinion) because they never really intended to leave.
After all, if you have the option of leaving or staying, would you not also want to weigh the financial benefits of both sides versus just going on project fear and the latest value of the pound?
More and more interesting every day.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:08 pm

You should be a bit more zen and save your energy for the EU phase 2 guidelines. The real fight will start at that point.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:38 pm

Not really, the major battle has already been lost - the financial settlement - based on that foundation, a lot of things to be negotiated based on trade have core values which are tied to the financial settlement. All leverage on the UK side is gone and since the majority of them support remain, they will be holding their noses while agreeing to everything the EU puts forth in the name of fighting for the best deal, so far the graphic a few post up is telling.
Let's see how much time is wasted on the transition period and how much is heard about what takes place after the transition, the mantra being by the time that comes around we either have a new government of a new vote to remain.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:45 pm

par13del wrote:
Not really, the major battle has already been lost - the financial settlement - based on that foundation, a lot of things to be negotiated based on trade have core values which are tied to the financial settlement. All leverage on the UK side is gone and since the majority of them support remain, they will be holding their noses while agreeing to everything the EU puts forth in the name of fighting for the best deal, so far the graphic a few post up is telling.
Let's see how much time is wasted on the transition period and how much is heard about what takes place after the transition, the mantra being by the time that comes around we either have a new government of a new vote to remain.


Majority of the Brits want to remain now, UK business wants to remain, UK civil services wants to remain, the majority in the houses wants to remain, the majority within the EU wants the UK to remain and yet they are leaving, crazy world we live in.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:33 pm

The majority in the Houses, Civil Servants and Business always wanted to remain, unfortunately for them, they were not a sufficient majority to beat the 17+ million who voted to leave, now they will will see how democracy works.
 
mmo
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:58 pm

par13del wrote:
All leverage on the UK side is gone and since the majority of them support remain, they will be holding their noses while agreeing to everything the EU puts forth in the name of fighting for the best deal, so far the graphic a few post up is telling.
.


The problem is the UK never had any leverage at all. The leverage they had was like the money which was going to go to the NHS. The problem is, as I see it, the pro-brexit forces were willing to say anything to ensure they were on the winning side. I was back in the UK when I glimpsed at the "red sheet" papers and they were triumphing the return to a blue passport! If that is a measure of success, I am glad I made my exit when I did. I just feel sorry for all the people who were led down the primrose path.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:03 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Majority of the Brits want to remain now, UK business wants to remain, UK civil services wants to remain, the majority in the houses wants to remain, the majority within the EU wants the UK to remain and yet they are leaving, crazy world we live in.


So are you saying we should ignore a democratic referendum vote? :confused:

I voted to remain, but we’re leaving because that’s what the majority voted for. You don’t get a second vote because you don’t the result of the first.
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:02 am

It's amazing how people now use the "But the opinion polls have shifted to remain since the referendum" argument. There were lots of polls in favour of leave years and year before the vote yet we still had to wait until 2016 to have one.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:10 am

I suggest a referendum asking if there should be a remain referendum.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:56 am

scbriml wrote:
I voted to remain, but we’re leaving because that’s what the majority voted for. You don’t get a second vote because you don’t the result of the first.

Well you know what they say (Irish) included, if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again.
Or you could always ignore the opinion poll since it was not a legally binding referendum, good luck explaining why that is a non-starter in the UK form of democracy.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:07 am

scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Majority of the Brits want to remain now, UK business wants to remain, UK civil services wants to remain, the majority in the houses wants to remain, the majority within the EU wants the UK to remain and yet they are leaving, crazy world we live in.


So are you saying we should ignore a democratic referendum vote? :confused:

I voted to remain, but we’re leaving because that’s what the majority voted for. You don’t get a second vote because you don’t the result of the first.


no, I would say a second vote on the final agreement with remain back on the table.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:18 am

scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Majority of the Brits want to remain now, UK business wants to remain, UK civil services wants to remain, the majority in the houses wants to remain, the majority within the EU wants the UK to remain and yet they are leaving, crazy world we live in.


So are you saying we should ignore a democratic referendum vote? :confused:

I voted to remain, but we’re leaving because that’s what the majority voted for. You don’t get a second vote because you don’t the result of the first.


There will be a second referendum when the British economy starts to noticeably lag behind, is again the sick man of Europe, etc.

The UK did not join the EEC because they believed in what it meant, only because their economy was a basket case and the EFTA had been a failure.

Image
That's per capita PPP GDP UK vs an average of the original EU6 (EU5 is the same minus Luxembourg, because it skews the numers somehow).
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:57 am

The problem is that the people negotiating are from the remain camp. Farage should negotiate with the EU and Boris Johnson should be PM. They would handle the EU very differently and tell them what the UK demands.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:19 am

seahawk wrote:
The problem is that the people negotiating are from the remain camp. Farage should negotiate with the EU and Boris Johnson should be PM. They would handle the EU very differently and tell them what the UK demands.


Yes, and that would achieve what exactly for the UK? The UK has no leverage after all.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:21 am

JJJ wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Majority of the Brits want to remain now, UK business wants to remain, UK civil services wants to remain, the majority in the houses wants to remain, the majority within the EU wants the UK to remain and yet they are leaving, crazy world we live in.


So are you saying we should ignore a democratic referendum vote? :confused:

I voted to remain, but we’re leaving because that’s what the majority voted for. You don’t get a second vote because you don’t the result of the first.


There will be a second referendum when the British economy starts to noticeably lag behind, is again the sick man of Europe, etc.

The UK did not join the EEC because they believed in what it meant, only because their economy was a basket case and the EFTA had been a failure.

Image
That's per capita PPP GDP UK vs an average of the original EU6 (EU5 is the same minus Luxembourg, because it skews the numers somehow).


Could you explain the numbers on the vertical scale? I don't know what I am looking at here.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:28 am

Dutchy wrote:
seahawk wrote:
The problem is that the people negotiating are from the remain camp. Farage should negotiate with the EU and Boris Johnson should be PM. They would handle the EU very differently and tell them what the UK demands.


Yes, and that would achieve what exactly for the UK? The UK has no leverage after all.


With a real willingness to go for the hard Brexit, they might have.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:49 am

Yes, let the UK go for a hard brexit and look what happens to the services...
 
Eyad89
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Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:51 am

To be honest, I don't think everyone has the right to vote when it comes to referendums (unlike elections, where everyone should vote). Many people make their decisions based on emotions, why should their uncontrolled emotions determine my life? This is not democracy, democracy does not mean taking a vote on any matter. Some line should be drawn there on what can be decided by a public vote, and what can be decided by only a group of mentally stable, wise, intelligent, and knowledgeable individuals. At worse, let the congress/parliament make the decisions, but to let some shallow, racist vote matters when making a crucial decision that would set the direction of the whole country is just madness in my opinion.


The difference between elections and referendums is huge. In elections, you vote for a head of a state or a representative in the government. If the elected individual is unfit for any reason, then that can be easily reversed by simply waiting until his/her term ends or by removing him/her from office. Then we can start fresh again. In referendums, public make a decision that could be pretty impactful with minimal chances of reversing that decision, even if it was later proven to be unwise.

Until now, I don't get why UK has gone this way to be honest. Of course it would make sense for a lot of you, but not for me.

I was just thinking, let's assume that another referendum is done in 2030 long after the UK leaves the EU, and the result found that the majority wants to go back into EU. Would it make sense to join the EU then? why not? Is it because it is impractical to join the EU only a decade after leaving it? I thought this decision is based only on the will of the people, why are we considering the practicality of the proposal only in this case? What about the practicality of leaving the EU in the first place?
Last edited by Eyad89 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2823
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:53 am

Dutchy wrote:
JJJ wrote:
scbriml wrote:

So are you saying we should ignore a democratic referendum vote? :confused:

I voted to remain, but we’re leaving because that’s what the majority voted for. You don’t get a second vote because you don’t the result of the first.


There will be a second referendum when the British economy starts to noticeably lag behind, is again the sick man of Europe, etc.

The UK did not join the EEC because they believed in what it meant, only because their economy was a basket case and the EFTA had been a failure.

Image
That's per capita PPP GDP UK vs an average of the original EU6 (EU5 is the same minus Luxembourg, because it skews the numers somehow).


Could you explain the numbers on the vertical scale? I don't know what I am looking at here.


% difference vs the average per capita of the other countries.

The UK came out of the post-war as much as 50% richer per capita, but the continent steadily gained ground until entry into the EEC where once again successful reforms and a new market (with a bit of North Sea oil help) put them back up.

Those reforms aligned the UK economy to the continent which is what the UK wants to cut now.
 
mmo
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 am

seahawk wrote:
The problem is that the people negotiating are from the remain camp. Farage should negotiate with the EU and Boris Johnson should be PM. They would handle the EU very differently and tell them what the UK demands.


The UK never had any leverage at all! Perhaps I am wrong, but I would love to hear where you think the UK would have any leverage, especially with Boris as the PM and Farage as the negotiator! If you ever wanted two self serving politicians in power you just named the "dream team" with those two.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
JJJ
Posts: 2823
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit - EU position

Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 am

mmo wrote:
seahawk wrote:
The problem is that the people negotiating are from the remain camp. Farage should negotiate with the EU and Boris Johnson should be PM. They would handle the EU very differently and tell them what the UK demands.


The UK never had any leverage at all! Perhaps I am wrong, but I would love to hear where you think the UK would have any leverage, especially with Boris as the PM and Farage as the negotiator! If you ever wanted two self serving politicians in power you just named the "dream team" with those two.


Nigel "I will go live in the EU if Brexit is a failure" Farage and the same Boris Johnson that had backup pro-EU ideas in case remain won.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 63781.html

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