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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:10 am

A Magnificent Speech from President Trump to the S. Korean National Assembly on the Anniversary of President Trump's Victory from the US Election on November 8, 2016

How Sweet It Is !! :trophy: :trophy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWj4diFsKAY
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tommy1808
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:21 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
A Magnificent Speech from President Trump to the S. Korean National Assembly on the Anniversary of President Trump's Victory from the US Election on November 8, 2016

How Sweet It Is !! :trophy: :trophy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWj4diFsKAY


... and yet the only question is not what Trump will achieve during the trip, but which one of his current or former staffers is behind bars when he comes back.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:45 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
A Magnificent Speech from President Trump to the S. Korean National Assembly on the Anniversary of President Trump's Victory from the US Election on November 8, 2016

How Sweet It Is !! :trophy: :trophy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWj4diFsKAY


Sometimes I think you really do mean what you say and then, nehh, that can't be, you are just trolling.

Was this Trump's speech in which he promoted his golf course? Magnificent indeed for the Trump organization. I think there is a word for meandering government business and personal business, can you help me with that?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:49 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Was this Trump's speech in which he promoted his golf course?


Speaking of Which, the 'Hire American' guy who wants to put America first recently hired 70 foreign workers for his Mar-a-Lago resort.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... 652fff66ab

It has been demonstrated by now that the Trump base is completely impervious to irony and hypocrisy, and the Trump man sure knows how to take advantage of their stupidity... He is a con man after all.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
LMP737
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:42 pm

Francoflier wrote:

Speaking of Which, the 'Hire American' guy who wants to put America first recently hired 70 foreign workers for his Mar-a-Lago resort.
.


Which you know will not be covered by Fox News, talk radio, Drudge or Breitbart. Which means his supporters will never know about it.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:56 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
A Magnificent Speech from President Trump to the S. Korean National Assembly on the Anniversary of President Trump's Victory from the US Election on November 8, 2016

If reading from a teleprompter without error counts as magnificent, then you are on to something. He did manage to stay on script for more than 30 minutes.

His best point was about the mastery of Korean women golfers (and getting a plug in for his golf course).

No formal plan for peace on the Korea peninsula or for reunification of the Korean people.

No mention of a diplomatic opening to North Korea.

He presented a good outline of the South Korean post-war recovery and economic miracle.

He rattled the saber.

Anything new? Was his audience wowed by his performance or rhetoric?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
LMP737
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:01 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
.

His best point was about the mastery of Korean women golfers (and getting a plug in for his golf course).


Can you imagine the uproar from the right if Obama had business interests while was president and went around the world plugging them?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:18 pm

LMP737 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
.

His best point was about the mastery of Korean women golfers (and getting a plug in for his golf course).


Can you imagine the uproar from the right if Obama had business interests while was president and went around the world plugging them?


But but but that was Obama.
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:55 pm

LMP737 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
.

His best point was about the mastery of Korean women golfers (and getting a plug in for his golf course).


Can you imagine the uproar from the right if Obama had business interests while was president and went around the world plugging them?

Impossible.

Mr. Obama would have proclaimed: "I didn't make that", or "I didn't build/create that". It was made/built/created by government that supplied roads, schools, regulations.

Much as I supported Mr. Obama, he lost a great deal of luster due to his foolish attitudes about the real world, and his attempts to subvert of replace laws by executive action.

But he was a class act compared to Mr. Trump. He could formulate and articulate complete and intelligible sentences.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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zckls04
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:16 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
If reading from a teleprompter without error counts as magnificent, then you are on to something. He did manage to stay on script for more than 30 minutes.


Well, you can't deny it's progress....
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:35 pm

zckls04 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
If reading from a teleprompter without error counts as magnificent, then you are on to something. He did manage to stay on script for more than 30 minutes.


Well, you can't deny it's progress....


baby steps.. :lol:

From attacking someone who uses it to successful reading from one, we have come very far in one year.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:29 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
A Magnificent Speech from President Trump to the S. Korean National Assembly on the Anniversary of President Trump's Victory from the US Election on November 8, 2016

How Sweet It Is !! :trophy: :trophy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWj4diFsKAY


... and yet the only question is not what Trump will achieve during the trip, but which one of his current or former staffers is behind bars when he comes back.

best regards
Thomas


Trump staffers behind bars ????

You never worried about the Obama and Clinton staffers who ended up behind bars in the morgue....

Woooosh..... Right over your forehead !!!!
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:34 am

WARNING *conspiracy theory from the fact-free zone* Spillover?! First, the ridiculous notion that Clinton's were behind some murders/suicides and now Obama is joining them? Come on.......
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seb146
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:48 am

Russian "diplomats" are dropping like flies but no news about that from the right. Probably can not figure out how Hillary did all those...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/de ... index.html
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tommy1808
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:19 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Trump staffers behind bars ????

You never worried about the Obama and Clinton staffers who ended up behind bars in the morgue....

Woooosh..... Right over your forehead !!!!


I am not aware of any justified suspicious for a larger conspiracy against the United States on their side, or pretty much any criminal conduct, despite 100 million US$ or so wasted onto trying to stick something to them. Compare Mueller after 5 month with the republican efforts to get Clinton over what.. 20 years?

But yeah, please keep believing that they selectively happen to forget just anything about Russian contacts or investments, going way back to Trumps "hi Putin, i am your best friend, you would love me to be President" Interview where he had a relationship with Putin, who was a great guy and world leader, as opposed to "i never met the guy" a little later....

Well, maybe they kept it to Phone Sex....

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
LMP737
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:33 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Mr. Obama would have proclaimed: "I didn't make that", or "I didn't build/create that". It was made/built/created by government that supplied roads, schools, regulations.

Much as I supported Mr. Obama, he lost a great deal of luster due to his foolish attitudes about the real world, .




You might want to do some research on the context of what he actually said regarding that.
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:49 am

LMP737 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Mr. Obama would have proclaimed: "I didn't make that", or "I didn't build/create that". It was made/built/created by government that supplied roads, schools, regulations.

Much as I supported Mr. Obama, he lost a great deal of luster due to his foolish attitudes about the real world, .


You might want to do some research on the context of what he actually said regarding that.

Quoting Mr. Obama:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/th ... 92ddf08b94

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

The context is in large measure, attitude.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:15 am

What is foolish about that? Yes, people create a business, well done, if successful, even better. But Mr. Obama is right, businesses thrive in context, business thrives in an environment which has the right tools and those tools are provided by society at large.
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tommy1808
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:07 pm

finally granting Trump protection for his brand names in China really does pay off:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... mg00000009

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
seb146
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:10 pm

The minority president believes Putin more than American intelligence

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... n=politics

I know it is "fake" because it is not on Fox "news" but I thought it needs to be put out there....
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:23 pm

No suprise there.
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LittleFokker
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
The minority president believes Putin more than American intelligence

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... n=politics

I know it is "fake" because it is not on Fox "news" but I thought it needs to be put out there....


Isn't that a textbook example of treason....trusting the word of a foreign adversary over our own nation's intelligence agencies?

If that isn't treason, what the hell is?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:06 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The minority president believes Putin more than American intelligence

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... n=politics

I know it is "fake" because it is not on Fox "news" but I thought it needs to be put out there....


Isn't that a textbook example of treason....trusting the word of a foreign adversary over our own nation's intelligence agencies?

If that isn't treason, what the hell is?



No, that isn't treason, that naive at best, but just plain stupidity I would say.
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maortega15
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:28 pm

seb146 wrote:
The minority president believes Putin more than American intelligence

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... n=politics

I know it is "fake" because it is not on Fox "news" but I thought it needs to be put out there....

seahawk would be proud. :biggrin:
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:09 am

seb146 wrote:
The minority president believes Putin more than American intelligence

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... n=politics

I know it is "fake" because it is not on Fox "news" but I thought it needs to be put out there....



What is the name of this Thread again?

Disclaimer, I cannot really call him by his title.

Imagine calling it success when Trump believes a former KGB thug over Americans who have defended this country with blood sweat and tears at times. I have nothing but contempt for this idiot who blabs and blabs and blabs while alienating his fellow Americans and insulting true Patriots like our intelligence people and true Warriors like John McCain and all who were Prisoners of War who somehow survived the horror. I'll just bet some of those True Warriors have bone spurs. :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
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salttee
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:10 am

Dutchy wrote:
No, that isn't treason, that naive at best, but just plain stupidity I would say.

When you add in the fact that Putin's election meddling was intended to help Trump, you come to the obvious fact that whatever Putin and Trump said to each other, it couldn't possibly have included Putin denying his actions, the end result is treason.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:10 am

Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
seb146
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:19 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.


There is already evidence that Russia used social media with fake reports to sway votes. People inside the tRump campaign have already been tied to Russia. Those people have already said they met with Russians because they were supposed to have dirt on Hillary. An awful lot of things are lining up against tRump and his minions.

Not to mention that he believes Putin more than our own intelligence who says that Russia meddled in our elections! Our own FBI and CIA, not to mention the security services in France, Germany, Poland, and Estonia all say Russia meddled in our election. But, yeah, Putin is so much more reliable....
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salttee
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:42 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.
There's or good ol Bob once again rushing to the defense of any tyrant, child-molester or traitor with his finely honed hair splitting. Anything to minimize the trauma or slander on any of Bob's patron saints.

BOB, this is not a court of law, here we use Websters.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:53 am

salttee wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.


There's or good ol Bob once again rushing to the defense of any tyrant, child-molester or traitor with his finely honed hair splitting. Anything to minimize the trauma or slander on any of Bob's patron saints.

BOB, this is not a court of law, here we use Websters.

Looks to me like you are going off the deep end.

I am not defending anyone.

I am defending the proper use of words.

Webster's does not trump (no pun intended) the Constitution.

Traitorous acts are defined by the Constitution, not by your whim.

As for patron saints, they may exist in your world, but not in mine.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
salttee
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:55 am

Trump has been awakened to his blunder about believing Putin.

President Donald Trump now says that he believes the US intelligence agencies' assessments that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election, but said he thinks Russian President Vladimir Putin believes Russia didn't interfere. Now he's trying to make us believe the unbelievable:

"I believe that he feels that he and Russia did not meddle in the election," Trump said at a joint news conference with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi. "I believe very much in our intelligence agencies."

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cl ... es-2017-11


He actually wants us to believe that the Russians meddled in our election but that Putin didn't know about it.

That dog won't hunt.
 
salttee
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:06 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Looks to me like you are going off the deep end.
Are you trying to challenge the dark and snowy person to a "how rude can you get" contest?
BobPatterson wrote:
I am not defending anyone.

You consistently and repeatedly minimize any accusations against any monster mentioned in this forum.
You are the ever-present defense consul for any Republican or wall street type criminal, in another thread in this forum you jumped in to defend Ray More over his child molesting.

BobPatterson wrote:
I am defending the proper use of words.
Webster's does not trump (no pun intended) the Constitution.
Traitorous acts are defined by the Constitution, not by your whim.

You are flat out wrong Bob. "Traitor" is a word in the English language.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Def%3A+ ... 8&oe=utf-8
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:33 am

salttee wrote:
Are you trying to challenge the dark and snowy person to a "how rude can you get" contest?

See post #579 for examples of rudeness.

salttee wrote:
in another thread in this forum you jumped in to defend Ray More over his child molesting.

Nope. Merely pointed out his act was not pedophilia. It was indeed child molestation (the case of the 14-year old).

salttee wrote:
"Traitor" is a word in the English language.

Yes it is. I hadn't noticed that I used the word Traitorous when I meant to use Treasonous.

Thanks for pointing out my error. I don't think the word traitor appears in the Constitution.
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salttee
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:48 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Nope. Merely pointed out his act was not pedophilia. It was indeed child molestation (the case of the 14-year old).viewforum.php?f=11

Sure Bob you're always jumping to the hair splitting to defend your flock. Always.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:28 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Isn't that a textbook example of treason....


I tend to try and stay objective in my use of words, but I think treason is the most adequate term here. And it is blatant.

A large amount of evidence has come to light (and keeps coming) indicating a clear involvement of Russia during the election with a clear goal of disrupting and influencing them. All evidence points to Russia trying to favor Trump.

The CIA agrees, the NSA agrees, the FBI agrees, every other intelligence agency in the country that has looked into it agrees.

There is evidence that many in the Trump campaign team have had dealings with Russia.
There is evidence that this very campaign team had contacts with Russian linked to the government (i.e. to Putin) during the campaign.
There is an ongoing investigation on the Trump campaign's dealings with Russia.

All of the experts knowledgeable in the field would agree that this is an attack on American democracy, a very severe one, and that it is bound to happen again if nothing is done.

Yet Trump unilaterally decides to ignore all of that evidence and to proclaim that nothing has happened, and that it is all a hoax designed to incriminate him.
During all of the repeated times he has met Putin already since last year, he has always appeared to defend Putin's position or to be conciliatory, and that visibly hasn't changed.
If he somehow wasn't involved in all of this, then he is clearly more interested in not antagonizing Putin than getting to the bottom of an issue that threatens the country.
If he (more likely) was knowledgeable of the Russian operation ongoing during the campaign, then he is trying to keep it from boiling over as it benefited him directly.
Either way, he is defending the interests of a foreign nation (along with his) at the expense of his own country, and that is treason.

Dutchy wrote:
No, that isn't treason, that naive at best, but just plain stupidity I would say.


I disagree. Trump is indeed quite stupid, but I personally don't believe for an instant that he was not informed of what the Russians were trying to achieve during the campaign. There is a high probability that it was done very indirectly, of course, and through people he could distance himself from if they were discovered (Flynn, Manafort, etc...), but there is almost no chance that the man whose signature business management style is extreme micromanaging was not at least informed of what was going on, especially since members of his own close family appeared involved.

And even if you assume that he didn't know anything at all and that he is really an ingenuous blockhead oblivious all the shady dealings happening under his feet, then there is no excuse for disregarding the loud fire warnings sounding from all US intelligence organisations and preferring to take Putin at his own words and pretending that everything is fine.

Unless you believe that, much like Trump, Putin cannot tell a lie...
:angel:
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jetmechanicdave
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:10 am

Lets try and limit the personal attacks please. I understand the sensitivity of politics, but please limit the personal attacks. Thanks guys :)
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tommy1808
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:56 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.


One may argue that meddling in the election is an act of war, one may also argue that this falls under adhering to the enemy.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:22 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
No, that isn't treason, that naive at best, but just plain stupidity I would say.


I disagree. Trump is indeed quite stupid, but I personally don't believe for an instant that he was not informed of what the Russians were trying to achieve during the campaign. There is a high probability that it was done very indirectly, of course, and through people he could distance himself from if they were discovered (Flynn, Manafort, etc...), but there is almost no chance that the man whose signature business management style is extreme micromanaging was not at least informed of what was going on, especially since members of his own close family appeared involved.

And even if you assume that he didn't know anything at all and that he is really an ingenuous blockhead oblivious all the shady dealings happening under his feet, then there is no excuse for disregarding the loud fire warnings sounding from all US intelligence organisations and preferring to take Putin at his own words and pretending that everything is fine.

Unless you believe that, much like Trump, Putin cannot tell a lie...
:angel:


I truly think that the Trump campaign didn't know everything the Russian where doing, would you tell someone who is a blattermouse like Trump and incompetent like his campaign? Some yes, but everything, no :D
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Dutchy
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:25 pm

John Oliver summed Trump's Presidency up quite nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZAPwfrtAFY

Look out for:
- delegitimizing the media
- whataboutism
- trolling

This all undermines the debate we all need to have about the issues.
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:48 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.


One may argue that meddling in the election is an act of war, one may also argue that this falls under adhering to the enemy.

Sure, one may make many arguments that will not stand up to scrutiny in a court of law.

An interesting (to me) quote from Wikipedia:

"In the 1790s, opposition political parties were new and not fully accepted. Government leaders often considered their opponents to be some sort of traitors. Historian Ron Chernow reports that Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton and President George Washington "regarded much of the criticism fired at their administration as disloyal, even treasonous, in nature." When an undeclared Quasi-War broke out with France in 1797–98, "Hamilton increasingly mistook dissent for treason and engaged in hyperbole." Furthermore, the Jeffersonian opposition party behaved the same way. After 1801, with a peaceful transition in the political party in power, the rhetoric of "treason" against political opponents diminished."

It is easy for people to hurl charges of treason against opponents. It is quite another matter to bring such charges (and sustain them) in a court of law. It has been done relatively few times in the history of the United States.

I'm currently reading a new book, a collection of speeches by the late Justice Antonin Scalia. Many of his speeches (and his court opinions) dealt with the meanings of words and legal terms. "Original intent" and "original meaning" are more important than what people wish words to mean today.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
salttee
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:14 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Sure, one may make many arguments that will not stand up to scrutiny in a court of law.

How many times do you need to be told that this is a discussion forum, not a court of law?
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:30 pm

salttee wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Sure, one may make many arguments that will not stand up to scrutiny in a court of law.

How many times do you need to be told that this is a discussion forum, not a court of law?

Perhaps as often as you make outlandish statements such as:

"You consistently and repeatedly minimize any accusations against any monster mentioned in this forum.
You are the ever-present defense consul for any Republican or wall street type criminal.............."
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Tugger
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:42 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
I'm currently reading a new book, a collection of speeches by the late Justice Antonin Scalia. Many of his speeches (and his court opinions) dealt with the meanings of words and legal terms. "Original intent" and "original meaning" are more important than what people wish words to mean today.

Not in my opinion. And I base that on two things:
1.) The fact that you cannot go back in time and actually KNOW what the use of the word ACTUALLY, ORIGINALLY was for in the document being reviewed. How often do you write something, clearly you think, only to have it misinterpreted? It happens all the time.
2.) Times are different and so the use of the word, the way the author intended it to be interpreted, the environment it was defining or responding to, may have been different if used the same today.

Were the authors using meanings they grew up with (so meanings from some 20 years prior) or the ones that were coming into play at the time the document was created? I know there are a lot of writings by the authors and their documents can be looked at for clarification but it is not 100%.

Firearms is a very simple (and very sensitive) example. What was the EXACT, SPECIFIC meaning of the word "ARMS" when it was applied in the 2nd Amendment? I am fairly positive the authors did not mean our modern firearms that we have today, so how does "original meaning" work with "original intent" and how is anyone supposed to actually prove it as a fast this many years later? The simple truth is you can't. So instead you have to define things as best you can, and while you can claim "Original" whatever, it isn't really, more accurately it is a "best guess" and how is that better than using a more current meaning? Heck at the time the US Constitution was written having a cannon was probably considered OK and it was also used for other purposes back then (communicating across long distances).

You need a definition, you need a guidepost, the thing is we often don't have one (which is why laws gets so wonky nowadays as a specific definition is sometimes included for clarity over time).

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
salttee
Posts: 1605
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:44 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
salttee wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Sure, one may make many arguments that will not stand up to scrutiny in a court of law.

How many times do you need to be told that this is a discussion forum, not a court of law?

Perhaps as often as you make outlandish statements such as:

"You consistently and repeatedly minimize any accusations against any monster mentioned in this forum.
You are the ever-present defense consul for any Republican or wall street type criminal.............."
Bob if you don't like that a subject is being discussed here, your only ethical option is to avoid the thread, not jump in and try to kill the discussion, which you do repetitively.

And please quit your endless bickering.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 pm

salttee wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
salttee wrote:
How many times do you need to be told that this is a discussion forum, not a court of law?

Perhaps as often as you make outlandish statements such as:

"You consistently and repeatedly minimize any accusations against any monster mentioned in this forum.
You are the ever-present defense consul for any Republican or wall street type criminal.............."


Bob if you don't like that a subject is being discussed here, your only ethical option is to avoid the thread, not jump in and try to kill the discussion, which you do repetitively.

And please quit your endless bickering.

I have no objection to subjects discussed in this forum (at least not those that I participate in).

I do object to and criticize false statements and misuse of terminology.

You are of course free to ignore anything I have to say.

You are also free to avoid starting a line of bickering.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
salttee
Posts: 1605
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:30 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
I have no objection to subjects discussed in this forum (at least not those that I participate in).

I do object to and criticize false statements and misuse of terminology.

You are of course free to ignore anything I have to say.

You are also free to avoid starting a line of bickering.
You repeatedly set yourself up as judge an jury of what should not be discussed here. You want to shift a discussion about Roy Moore's obvious pedophilia to a hair splitting debate about whether a 13 yo or a 14 yo is a child, leaving Roy Moore completely behind in the discussion. You want to end a discussion about Donald Trump's treasonous behavior and lead it off into a discussion of constitutional law, 18th century law at that, again leaving the subject of Donald Trump behind.

If you did it once in a while fine, but you have done it repeatedly ever since you joined this forum.
 
777222LR
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:19 am

Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:05 am

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017 ... sr-sot.cnn

The Atlantic Reporting that Don Jr. was communicating directly with Wikileaks. Just an FYI, most news agencies are reporting this, not just CNN.
 
salttee
Posts: 1605
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 am

777222LR wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/11/13/trump-jr-wikileaks-twitter-account-report-coons-tsr-sot.cnn

The Atlantic Reporting that Don Jr. was communicating directly with Wikileaks. Just an FYI, most news agencies are reporting this, not just CNN.
And Wiki leaks was in direct contact with the Russians at that time.
 
seb146
Posts: 15677
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:12 am

And in more "winning news"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-court- ... 19576.html

A judicial nominee "forgot" that he was married to the chief of staff for the nomination process. And, because this was not reported on a right wing outlet, there will be no outrage.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6817
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Re: The Success of President Donald Trump

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:24 am

BobPatterson wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Treason, under the Constitution, is narrowly defined. Collusion to meddle in an election would not, IMHO, qualify as Treason. It might if the country was in a state of war at the time.


One may argue that meddling in the election is an act of war, one may also argue that this falls under adhering to the enemy.

Sure, one may make many arguments that will not stand up to scrutiny in a court of law..


I would say in that case the laws that court works on isn´t any good at all. Treason is "the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government." the dictionary says, or "the action of betraying someone or something.".

It doesn´t say how you have to overthrow the government. Colluding with a foreign power to change the outcome of an certainly falls under that heading. If Mohammad Mossadegh had survived in Power, i do have the feeling that treason would have been tossed around in court all the freaking time, because of cooperating with the CIA.....

But i agree that the charge in court won´t be about treason, to easy to argue against it, it will be other things. I would not be surprised if the relative silence regarding the Eric Trump and Donald J. Trump Foundation is simply because Mueller has taken over that part too. If i understand correctly, foundations are governed by federal and state law, so this would be the chance to build pardon proof cases. Any kind of legally or morally questionable behavior may provide leverage for blackmail after all.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D

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