User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16659
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:49 pm

apodino wrote:
The issue is far bigger than this though. We as a society have forgotten how to love.
...
The way we are going to solve this is to start treating people with respect.

Thank you for the thoughtful (and largely non-political) post. It's certainly given me a lot to think about.

Yes, it's common sense, but it is a great message to step back and look at the big picture.

Clearly the proliferation of porn is part of the problem.

It's most visible in societies where there was little access to it, but now with smartphones it's everywhere.

Hopefully people will take the big step back and examine things, but I suspect it will take a while.

That's why the whole Weinstein thing is so big, it's getting people to take a step back and think about where things are.

Some comedian (Conan O'Brian) said now 90% of email and texts are former co-workers asking each other, "Are we cool?"...
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:51 pm

apodino wrote:
I mention the 1960's because it was during this time that Pope Paul VI came out with Humane Vitae. It was also during this time that birth control and contraception became much more mainstream as well. Pope Paul VI said to much criticism that the widespread availability of these items would cause rising infidelity, less respect for women by men in general, an increase in the divorce rate, and men and women who see each other as objects for gratification rather than individuals to love. If you look at the statistics on these issues since the 1960's, I would say these predictions have all rang true. The Moore allegations go back to the 70s, and unless you have been under a rock you have seen tons of famous men cheating on their women, or otherwise abusing women, not to mention women using their own sex to prey on vulnerable men. If we want to trace the origins of this culture, this is one area I would look into.

The sexual liberation of women was due to far more than availability of birth control methods. The increasing availability of education and jobs for women might have been more important.

Some interesting data: http://www.divorcestatistics.info/divor ... e-usa.html

Divorce Rate Statistics of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Marriages

"Various studies on US rate of divorce show significant differences when a comparison is made in 1st, 2nd and 3rd marriage breakups in America. The marriage breakup rate in America for first marriage is 41% to 50%; the rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67% and the rate in America for 3rd marriage are from 73% to 74%. Reports also say that couples with children have a slightly lower rate of breakup as compared to couples without children. This is due to the fact that being childless is one of the prime causes behind divorce in America. Also, the children of divorced parents are prone to divorcing 4 times more than the children of couples who are not divorced."

Talk about trickle-down effect.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:10 am

BobPatterson wrote:
This is due to the fact that being childless is one of the prime causes behind divorce in America. Also, the children of divorced parents are prone to divorcing 4 times more than the children of couples who are not divorced."

Talk about trickle-down effect.


That begs the question, is that good or bad? That could just be that they have learned that there is no shame in getting divorced and that there is no point maintaining a relationship that makes the people in it unhappy.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 5929
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:39 pm

I have to play Devil's advocate here: are men being given their due process?

A popup from USA Today said that NBC fired Matt Lauer for sexual harassment allegations.

While it is good optics to see a company taking action against sexual harassment allegations, it's also concerning that institutions may be too hasty to take action. The tip off was Monday night and Wednesday morning you're terminated? Even the most superficial of investigations aren't that fast. At the very least, suspension pending a full investigation would be better.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16659
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:27 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I have to play Devil's advocate here: are men being given their due process?

A popup from USA Today said that NBC fired Matt Lauer for sexual harassment allegations.

While it is good optics to see a company taking action against sexual harassment allegations, it's also concerning that institutions may be too hasty to take action. The tip off was Monday night and Wednesday morning you're terminated? Even the most superficial of investigations aren't that fast. At the very least, suspension pending a full investigation would be better.

It is a stand that is out of character for you, so devil's advocate is appropriate.

Those on the left tend to think of the common good. It's ok to hastily fire a high profile employee because it sends a message to all that sexual harassment will not be tolerated.

Those on the right tend to think of the individual. It's not ok to hastily fire a high profile employee because he has the right to due process, even if that means we send the message that sexual harassment is being tolerated.

I think we might be in the time frame where every allegation is going to be treated seriously, and it's about time.

Whether we like it or not, the rules have changed.

If we could only do the same for firearms, we'd have made a big difference in our world.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
Those on the right tend to think of the individual. It's not ok to hastily fire a high profile employee because he has the right to due process, even if that means we send the message that sexual harassment is being tolerated..


unless they give the finger to Trumps Limo.... in that case fire any time for any reason is totally fine, even if the event happend in peoples free time, ...

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 5929
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
I think we might be in the time frame where every allegation is going to be treated seriously, and it's about time.

Don't get me wrong. Allegations are serious. But what's to stop someone from crying "wolf" if it means someone you don't like gets kicked out?

I brought this up with my boss a few weeks ago. I want to know what my rights are as an employee of the company if anyone comes forth and claims I harassed them. Something could be taken out of context (as I mentioned in an earlier post); does that imply that I'm not allowed due process to defend myself because the company has to be seen taking a strong stance against sexual harassment?

Once again: I don't question someone's motives. But putting myself in someone's shoes: I'd like to know if the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" will be there or whether I'm assumed guilty immediately.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16659
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:31 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think we might be in the time frame where every allegation is going to be treated seriously, and it's about time.

Don't get me wrong. Allegations are serious. But what's to stop someone from crying "wolf" if it means someone you don't like gets kicked out?

To me it's akin to something that drives the right crazy, Affirmative Action, a big move to compensate (some suggest over-compensate, but anyone with eyes can see such overcompensation didn't change facts on the ground) for past imbalance.

So, yeah, it would be a very bad time to have someone "cry wolf" right now.

Life ain't fair. Co-lateral damage is a real thing.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:20 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think we might be in the time frame where every allegation is going to be treated seriously, and it's about time.

Don't get me wrong. Allegations are serious. But what's to stop someone from crying "wolf" if it means someone you don't like gets kicked out?

I brought this up with my boss a few weeks ago. I want to know what my rights are as an employee of the company if anyone comes forth and claims I harassed them. Something could be taken out of context (as I mentioned in an earlier post); does that imply that I'm not allowed due process to defend myself because the company has to be seen taking a strong stance against sexual harassment?

Once again: I don't question someone's motives. But putting myself in someone's shoes: I'd like to know if the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" will be there or whether I'm assumed guilty immediately.


I'd like to think that NBC had more evidence beyond one person making a claim and promptly firing him. I'm reading that he had multiple claims against him, and had more than just stories told. However, I am not in the inner workings of NBC, so I have no idea what did or did not happen.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:45 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think we might be in the time frame where every allegation is going to be treated seriously, and it's about time.

Don't get me wrong. Allegations are serious. But what's to stop someone from crying "wolf" if it means someone you don't like gets kicked out?

I brought this up with my boss a few weeks ago. I want to know what my rights are as an employee of the company if anyone comes forth and claims I harassed them. Something could be taken out of context (as I mentioned in an earlier post); does that imply that I'm not allowed due process to defend myself because the company has to be seen taking a strong stance against sexual harassment?

Once again: I don't question someone's motives. But putting myself in someone's shoes: I'd like to know if the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" will be there or whether I'm assumed guilty immediately.





Harassment … Sexism … Ageism … everything ‘Old’ is New Again.

http://citywatchla.com/index.php/import ... -new-again

if you are not a older male then you're probably safe.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:43 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
I'd like to think that NBC had more evidence beyond one person making a claim and promptly firing him. I'm reading that he had multiple claims against him, and had more than just stories told. However, I am not in the inner workings of NBC, so I have no idea what did or did not happen.

NBC said: "On Monday night, we received a detailed complaint from a colleague about inappropriate sexual behaviour in the workplace by Matt Lauer."
One complaint, singular.

NBC said it had "reason to believe this may not have been an isolated incident".
Delightfully vague. As in "I have a friend who knows someone in the back office, and she says there's no smoke without fire, and this is probably the tip of the iceberg. Besides, she's never liked the guy and always thought he was kinda creepy."
That kind of reason?

I'm not for one minute suggestion that he isn't guilty, or that other complaints will eventually surface. But right now he has been fired, and that is jumping the gun IMO.

And he has been joined by Garrison Keillor, from Minnesota Public Radio, also fired based on one individual accusation.
Both stories here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42168640
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:50 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
This is due to the fact that being childless is one of the prime causes behind divorce in America. Also, the children of divorced parents are prone to divorcing 4 times more than the children of couples who are not divorced."

Talk about trickle-down effect.


That begs the question, is that good or bad? That could just be that they have learned that there is no shame in getting divorced and that there is no point maintaining a relationship that makes the people in it unhappy.

One might wonder why the children of divorced parents haven't learned to avoid the pitfalls of bad marriages or that turn marriages sour.

".......until death do us part" is a very strong vow of commitment. Takes a lot of work to keep the commitment strong.

I've been married for 60 years. My first wife died after 14 years of marriage. We would be married still had she lived.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I have to play Devil's advocate here: are men being given their due process?

A popup from USA Today said that NBC fired Matt Lauer for sexual harassment allegations.

While it is good optics to see a company taking action against sexual harassment allegations, it's also concerning that institutions may be too hasty to take action. The tip off was Monday night and Wednesday morning you're terminated? Even the most superficial of investigations aren't that fast. At the very least, suspension pending a full investigation would be better.

I don't deny that you might be correct.

But in some cases, it is just a matter of the most recent charge being well documented, and that hesitation to act, over a period of time, is now overcome.

Perhaps we will learn more about this in the firing of Garrison Keillor, an icon if there ever was one.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/1 ... /23291893/
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:27 am

BobPatterson wrote:
One might wonder why the children of divorced parents haven't learned to avoid the pitfalls of bad marriages or that turn marriages sour.


Some may just do because personal development is divergent.

".......until death do us part" is a very strong vow of commitment. Takes a lot of work to keep the commitment strong.


Yup, it is. It should be, and you should believe it to be true when you say it and be willing to work on problems rather than throwing in the towel. But not to the point where both surrender themselves to being unhappy, or even one of them.
Some of my friends, especially my US ones have a hard time understanding that i am still good friends with my exes, the US ones even hardly understand why we still have contact, longest relationship being 15 years, but i am thinking "I love this women, i want her to be happy and if she can´t be happy with me, i´d rather have her happy with somebody else. I had my chance to make it work. Why would i toss away a great friendship on top of losing a relationship?".
Love shouldn´t be selfish after all.

I've been married for 60 years. My first wife died after 14 years of marriage. We would be married still had she lived.


I am sorry to hear that and that should be the assumption under which we enter into a marriage.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9403
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:46 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I have to play Devil's advocate here: are men being given their due process?

A popup from USA Today said that NBC fired Matt Lauer for sexual harassment allegations.

While it is good optics to see a company taking action against sexual harassment allegations, it's also concerning that institutions may be too hasty to take action. The tip off was Monday night and Wednesday morning you're terminated? Even the most superficial of investigations aren't that fast. At the very least, suspension pending a full investigation would be better.


I agree with what you're saying. It's possible that NBC was going to do that, but found overwhelming evidence in the company computer of the employee, or that the employee himself admitted to some wrongdoing and preferred a quick exit.

A few months ago a manager in my company was accused by a young woman of sexual harassment, I don't know what was going on as I work in another part of town so I saw very little of the people involved, from what I gathered they had some kind of intimate relationship that ended badly. Both ended up out of the company with a check and no legal repercussions, I know the man got an even better job at our main competitor...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:12 pm

Ann Coulter gets it right, again, with her "Sex In America Part II" article, where she skillfully parses out the difference between Liberals fake shock at a supposed verbal statement by Clarence Thomas vs. Bill Clinton's many many allegations, including the one where the governor summoned a lowly state employee to his hotel room, dropped his pants and said, “Kiss it,” in which no one in the Liberal Media were shocked by.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ca-part-2/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:56 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
including the one where the governor summoned a lowly state employee to his hotel room, dropped his pants and said, “Kiss it,” in which no one in the Liberal Media were shocked by.


Yeah, we know, in the world of the, not yet assigned an ICD code for their condition, "Trump Supporter", the morally ok thing to do is to just grab that p*ssy.

And always remember:
It is not ok to act like a dick even once, but it is ok to be a dick
It is not ok to do as a teenager may do, but it is ok to do a teenager

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9403
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:59 pm

It seems I was right, there are both lots of accusations and he admits it.

NEW YORK, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Matt Lauer apologized and said he was "soul searching" in a statement read out on NBC's "Today" show on Tuesday, a day after he was fired from his role as co-host of the popular morning show for what the network said was inappropriate sexual behavior.

"There are no words to express my sorrow and regret for the pain I have caused others by words and actions," Lauer said in the statement released to the network. "To the people I have hurt, I am truly sorry."

Lauer said that some of what he has been accused of is untrue and mischaracterized but said, "there is enough truth in these stories to make me feel embarrassed and ashamed."


Since people want to make it a "liberal vs conservative" issue, I notice most liberal men involved are admitting to wrongdoing and apologizing, while most conservative men deny it and talk about conspiracies...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
seb146
Posts: 15685
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:44 pm

You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16659
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:01 pm

seb146 wrote:

It is strange how the man has largely been given a pass by everyone.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
seb146
Posts: 15685
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:41 am

We had righties screaming about Conyers and his sexual harassment settlement, will you all be as outraged over this? My guess is no.

http://www.kgw.com/news/nation-world/co ... ce=twitter
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:01 am

seb146 wrote:
We had righties screaming about Conyers and his sexual harassment settlement, will you all be as outraged over this? My guess is no.

http://www.kgw.com/news/nation-world/co ... ce=twitter

There are no righties or lefties when it comes to penis conscience.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
User avatar
Lilienthal
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:52 pm

Revelation wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It is strange how the man has largely been given a pass by everyone.


I know right...? Contrary to Weinstein, Spacey an the like, they literally have Trump boasting about it on tape...

So i guess he's like... leading from the front..? What a great guy #MAGA
 
seb146
Posts: 15685
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:37 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
We had righties screaming about Conyers and his sexual harassment settlement, will you all be as outraged over this? My guess is no.

http://www.kgw.com/news/nation-world/co ... ce=twitter

There are no righties or lefties when it comes to penis conscience.


You can not be serious about this statement, Bob. The right is literally campaigning for a child molester to be elected to the Senate and defending the president and demanding two Democrats who have apologized be removed from office. This is totally partisan.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:31 am

seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
We had righties screaming about Conyers and his sexual harassment settlement, will you all be as outraged over this? My guess is no.

http://www.kgw.com/news/nation-world/co ... ce=twitter

There are no righties or lefties when it comes to penis conscience.


You can not be serious about this statement, Bob. The right is literally campaigning for a child molester to be elected to the Senate and defending the president and demanding two Democrats who have apologized be removed from office. This is totally partisan.

You live in a world of your own creation where all things are neatly black or white, right or left, your way or not your way.

Not all republicans, by a long shot, support Roy Moore, and many democrats oppose Franken, Conyers and others.

In any event, I was referring to the dicks without conscience. They exist in all elements of society, right and left, religious and atheist, any pairing you can think of that doesn't include gender..
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
seb146
Posts: 15685
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:33 am

BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
There are no righties or lefties when it comes to penis conscience.


You can not be serious about this statement, Bob. The right is literally campaigning for a child molester to be elected to the Senate and defending the president and demanding two Democrats who have apologized be removed from office. This is totally partisan.

You live in a world of your own creation where all things are neatly black or white, right or left, your way or not your way.

Not all republicans, by a long shot, support Roy Moore, and many democrats oppose Franken, Conyers and others.

In any event, I was referring to the dicks without conscience. They exist in all elements of society, right and left, religious and atheist, any pairing you can think of that doesn't include gender..


And there it is again: when the right gets caught, you all play the "but both sides do it!" card. I bring up how a Republican bought off his accuser with OUR money but "both sides do it" and "both sides are as bad" and all that. Whatever gets you through, Bob.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 20614
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:46 am

Last night, I went to a party with my husband. At one point, I was seated on the sofa checking a message on my phone, drink in hand, when a man old enough to be my father, someone not even remotely attractive to me, approached me quickly and aggressively and then sat down on the sofa next to me such that our bodies were in close contact. I quickly scooted away and used body language and a cold demeanor to make it clear that his advance wasn't appreciated. I also made sure my wedding ring was plainly visible. He scooched up to me again and I kept backing away. I didn't want to make a scene in someone else's party in their house out of a man who had been a mentor and friend to the host.

I explained that I was married and not on the market. A few minutes later, as I passed in front of him to go refill my glass of (very excellent) punch he put his hands around my body in a way that *nobody* who isn't in a consensual sexual relationship with me should touch me, a way that crossed a border into outright sexual assault. I squirmed away again. I'm not proud of it, but I wound up leaving the party. I should have just told him to get his creepy paws off of me, but he was a close friend of the host. I was angry and felt violated, but I couldn't tell anyone other than my husband.

This is how sexual harassment and assault begins; someone gets trapped into it and feels that protesting in that space and time will cost them dearly. So they say nothing. I, an educated, strong man, felt like I wasn't in a place to protest any louder.

As for him, he clearly felt entitled to sex with me. It's always felt that way when some creepy guy goes after me. A lot of people theorize that rapists get off on the power, and in some cases that might be true, but in most cases where I have been the target of sexual harassment or outright assault.

I'm not going to get into partisanship, but I will get into a discussion of why this happens. It isn't divorce. It isn't gay marriage or the open acceptance of homosexuality. It isn't sexual imagery in media. It isn't video games. It's men (it's almost always men) who feel entitled to sex with whomever they target. This isn't anything new. This was going on long before gay marriage and divorce and sexy media. This is about entitled men.

You aren't entitled to sex with *anyone.*
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:18 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:34 am

DocLightning wrote:
Last night, I went to a party with my husband. At one point, I was seated on the sofa checking a message on my phone, drink in hand, when a man old enough to be my father, someone not even remotely attractive to me, approached me quickly and aggressively and then sat down on the sofa next to me such that our bodies were in close contact. I quickly scooted away and used body language and a cold demeanor to make it clear that his advance wasn't appreciated. I also made sure my wedding ring was plainly visible. He scooched up to me again and I kept backing away. I didn't want to make a scene in someone else's party in their house out of a man who had been a mentor and friend to the host.

I explained that I was married and not on the market. A few minutes later, as I passed in front of him to go refill my glass of (very excellent) punch he put his hands around my body in a way that *nobody* who isn't in a consensual sexual relationship with me should touch me, a way that crossed a border into outright sexual assault. I squirmed away again. I'm not proud of it, but I wound up leaving the party. I should have just told him to get his creepy paws off of me, but he was a close friend of the host. I was angry and felt violated, but I couldn't tell anyone other than my husband.

This is how sexual harassment and assault begins; someone gets trapped into it and feels that protesting in that space and time will cost them dearly. So they say nothing. I, an educated, strong man, felt like I wasn't in a place to protest any louder.

As for him, he clearly felt entitled to sex with me. It's always felt that way when some creepy guy goes after me. A lot of people theorize that rapists get off on the power, and in some cases that might be true, but in most cases where I have been the target of sexual harassment or outright assault.

I'm not going to get into partisanship, but I will get into a discussion of why this happens. It isn't divorce. It isn't gay marriage or the open acceptance of homosexuality. It isn't sexual imagery in media. It isn't video games. It's men (it's almost always men) who feel entitled to sex with whomever they target. This isn't anything new. This was going on long before gay marriage and divorce and sexy media. This is about entitled men.

You aren't entitled to sex with *anyone.*

Thanks for posting this Doc. I'm sure it is something many of us needed to hear.

I wonder whether you might write to your host and explain what happened. Perhaps the creep (or maybe you) won't be invited to the next party. But mightn't that be a way to address the problem?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 am

There has been an (unconfirmed) report that Matt Lauer's wife has left the house in the Hamptons. Possibly even going back to her native country, The Netherlands.

I'm sure while she's away, Annette can pick up the phone and call Erin Nordegren, and have some "girl talk."
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:25 am

BobPatterson wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Last night, I went to a party with my husband. At one point, I was seated on the sofa checking a message on my phone, drink in hand, when a man old enough to be my father, someone not even remotely attractive to me, approached me quickly and aggressively and then sat down on the sofa next to me such that our bodies were in close contact. I quickly scooted away and used body language and a cold demeanor to make it clear that his advance wasn't appreciated. I also made sure my wedding ring was plainly visible. He scooched up to me again and I kept backing away. I didn't want to make a scene in someone else's party in their house out of a man who had been a mentor and friend to the host.

I explained that I was married and not on the market. A few minutes later, as I passed in front of him to go refill my glass of (very excellent) punch he put his hands around my body in a way that *nobody* who isn't in a consensual sexual relationship with me should touch me, a way that crossed a border into outright sexual assault. I squirmed away again. I'm not proud of it, but I wound up leaving the party. I should have just told him to get his creepy paws off of me, but he was a close friend of the host. I was angry and felt violated, but I couldn't tell anyone other than my husband.

This is how sexual harassment and assault begins; someone gets trapped into it and feels that protesting in that space and time will cost them dearly. So they say nothing. I, an educated, strong man, felt like I wasn't in a place to protest any louder.

As for him, he clearly felt entitled to sex with me. It's always felt that way when some creepy guy goes after me. A lot of people theorize that rapists get off on the power, and in some cases that might be true, but in most cases where I have been the target of sexual harassment or outright assault.

I'm not going to get into partisanship, but I will get into a discussion of why this happens. It isn't divorce. It isn't gay marriage or the open acceptance of homosexuality. It isn't sexual imagery in media. It isn't video games. It's men (it's almost always men) who feel entitled to sex with whomever they target. This isn't anything new. This was going on long before gay marriage and divorce and sexy media. This is about entitled men.

You aren't entitled to sex with *anyone.*

Thanks for posting this Doc. I'm sure it is something many of us needed to hear.

I wonder whether you might write to your host and explain what happened. Perhaps the creep (or maybe you) won't be invited to the next party. But mightn't that be a way to address the problem?


Doc's story was reminiscent of what happened to Terry Crews

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/adam-v ... 202605857/

https://youtu.be/8xF0r8D-OmA
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
WIederling
Posts: 4680
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:12 pm

DocLightning wrote:
This is about entitled men.

You aren't entitled to sex with *anyone.*


If you switch off the cortex everything falls back to hardwired cerebellum trigger response activities.
That goes for all sexes. What is different is the trigger response pairs. :-)

With some people the cortex seems to be mostly on a holiday even more so with some drugs added.
so their cerebellum is at the wheel. ( are they themselves really aware of what they do? )
Murphy is an optimist
 
stlgph
Posts: 9758
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Word on the street is The New York Times will be publishing, on Monday, a huge, scathing report on sexual whateverithasbecome in the Broadway industry.

Personally, I can't wait. This might cut down on the need for Christmas cards this year.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:13 pm

stlgph wrote:
Word on the street is The New York Times will be publishing, on Monday, a huge, scathing report on sexual whateverithasbecome in the Broadway industry.

Personally, I can't wait. This might cut down on the need for Christmas cards this year.


Not Broadway, but Opera....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/arts ... opera.html
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:05 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Word on the street is The New York Times will be publishing, on Monday, a huge, scathing report on sexual whateverithasbecome in the Broadway industry.

Not Broadway, but Opera....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/arts ... opera.html

Hence the old saying; it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

(I'll get my coat...) :duck:
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:22 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Word on the street is The New York Times will be publishing, on Monday, a huge, scathing report on sexual whateverithasbecome in the Broadway industry.

Not Broadway, but Opera....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/arts ... opera.html

Hence the old saying; it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

(I'll get my coat...) :duck:


Metropolitan Opera waited a year to act on accusation against conductor

NEW YORK (AP) — A big question remains after renowned conductor James Levine was suspended from the Metropolitan Opera amid accusations of sexual abuse: Why did it take so long for the company to act after it was informed by police that he had been accused of sexually abusing a teenage boy?

http://www.expressnews.com/news/crime/a ... 405199.php
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:59 pm

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/06/56883260 ... -to-resign

Rumor is getting stronger that Al Franken will resign tomorrow - he has a press conference scheduled and had a long chat with the other MN Senator, Amy Klobuchar.

Golly, it sure would be nice of the Republican Party to hold their own accountable too, but I think I'll be dead before that happens. Apparently, rules are only for those silly Democrats.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 5929
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Golly, it sure would be nice of the Republican Party to hold their own accountable too, but I think I'll be dead before that happens. Apparently, rules are only for those silly Democrats.

And that it what I hate about politics and why I can never see myself as a Republican.

Minnesota is likely going to lose its junior Senator because he has enough dignity left to resign rather than remain. Given the trend of midwestern states, I wouldn't be surprised if a Republican picks up the seat in a special election. Now, Gov. Dayton will appoint his successor who will serve until 2018 (and whoever wins then has to run for reelection in 2020), so the seat will remain blue until at least 2018, but will it remain so after?

Meanwhile, Alabama is about to elect its junior Senator and lo and behold, it's for behavior similar or worse than what Al Franken is likely to resign for.

Do people in this country even have morals anymore? One party decides to do the honorable thing and will likely be punished; the other party doesn't give AF and is rewarded.

Heads I win; tails you lose.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16659
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
One party decides to do the honorable thing and will likely be punished; the other party doesn't give AF and is rewarded.

Heads I win; tails you lose.

Kinda reminds me of the super-majority and the Senate.

One side honors rules/traditions, the other just wants to win.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 pm

Famed X-Men director Bryan Singer Sued for Allegedly Sexually Assaulting 17-Year-Old Boy

The suit claims Singer offered to take Cesar Sanchez-Guzman, who was 17 at the time, on a tour of the yacht. When they got to one of the rooms, the suit alleges Singer thrust his body on Guzman, forced him to the floor, shoved Guzman's face against his crotch and demanded he perform oral sex.

The suit claims Singer pulled out his penis, smacked Guzman in the face with it and forced it into his mouth. Guzman claims he pleaded with Singer to stop, but he kept going ... causing him to choke. The suit goes on to allege Singer then forcibly performed oral sex on Guzman. Guzman says he again pleaded with Singer to stop, to no avail. He says Singer then forcibly anally penetrated him, all while ignoring Guzman's pleas.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/bryan-sin ... acht-rape/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2702
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:05 am

#metoo and sexual harassment allegations have jumped the shark, imho. The left has made the mistake of mixing trivial crap and serious sexual harassment/assault together in the same pot and now we are about to witness the backlash.
 
seb146
Posts: 15685
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:18 am

usflyer msp wrote:
#metoo and sexual harassment allegations have jumped the shark, imho. The left has made the mistake of mixing trivial crap and serious sexual harassment/assault together in the same pot and now we are about to witness the backlash.


I don't think there will be a backlash. I think people will simply get tired of hearing about it.

What trivial crap are you talking about? I am asking honestly because I must have missed something.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 16659
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:38 am

The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:33 am

Revelation wrote:

Personally I think this is off-topic, but since you have brought this non-sexual assault case to our notice....

The way WBUR are dealing with this at least sounds like a more measured approach, until there is more conclusive evidence one way or another.

The fact that you have added it to this thread is less satisfactory.

WBUR wrote:
Yesterday, Boston University and WBUR received some allegations against Tom Ashbrook
"Some allegations" - about what?
Political bias?
Theft from the petty cash?
Fraudulent expenses claims?
Taking a dump in the CEO's private rest room?
There is nothing taking us down the sexual assault route.... yet. It may come in time, but you are jumping the gun.
Maybe you have also decided if he is guilty already? Again, you might eventually be right, but right now you are way out of order.

But thank you for bringing these unspecified allegations to our notice on this "Sexual Assault" thread. :roll:
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Sexual Assault - all of it

Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:43 pm

PBS's Tavis Smiley in the crosshairs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aqxf-UFvA4
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: L410Turbolet and 42 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos