GDB
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... st-cartoon

Says it all.

As to the level of 'support' here for Trump, put it this way, a state visit has been repeatedly postponed and downgraded, even before this (and a poor woman in England unconnected to politics, called Teresa May has been flooded with nonsense as the Grand Orange Wizard of The White House initially responded to the wrong Mrs May).

Or look up the tiny Britain First Party and see how many votes they got, they are not likely to get more as they've been prevented from standing again for failing to pay a fine, I think for some kind of electoral misconduct. The grand sum of £25. Yes, huge support they've got.
The VP of this party has convictions for and is facing more for racially aggravated intimidation.

Polls show around 75-80% of the UK have no confidence in Trump as a leader.
May herself might be too weak to properly rebuke the fool but some members of her own Cabinet are not, much less other Conservatives and of course, opposition MP's. Even Trump's buddy Nigel Farage thought he'd messed up, though probably for different reasons;
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ter-attack

Basically he's about as welcome here as a turd in a hot tub.
Last edited by GDB on Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Flighty
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:23 pm

Britain voted for Brexit. Do you have any more questions?
 
GDB
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:29 pm

Flighty wrote:
Britain voted for Brexit. Do you have any more questions?


Even a majority of Brexit voters are no fans of Trump, though polls are showing a small but steady eroding of support for our own act of stupidity last year. As it becomes more apparent they were sold a bunch of lies and more to the point, starts to impact on them in their daily lives. Not by a lot but slowly - plus demographics too, the most keen Leave voters being older.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:32 pm

Tugger wrote:
. And Trump plays along as the happy minstrel playing what ever tune or part he must to entertain/keep his audience. That is where I am thinking the problem may be.

Tugg


I don't think he is playing. He may once have been smart, but it is plain obvious that his mind is deteriorating and already pretty far down that road. The inability to string a coherent sentence together, the frequent pauses to find words, the obsessive single issue focus when talking.... He just needs to open his mouth for 30 seconds and it is perfectly clear that there is some degenerative disease at work. At his age his vocabulary should still be increasing and not shrink to that of a elementary school child with even worse grammar.

Steve Bannon is on record that he wants to destroy the government. Supporting Trump may have been the easiest way to accomplish just that, with an idiot at the helm, incompetence will simply implode the federal government.
That is probably why he supported him. Other did support him because idiots usually don't care much about being somewhat bi-partisan, and will fill each appointment with someone to their liking, other just did so because he will not notice how they rebuild the US into a theocracy. Or simply to piss "elites" in politics off. With a two party system there isn't really a way to protest-vote otherwise.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:56 pm

Flighty wrote:
Britain voted for Brexit. Do you have any more questions?


Indeed. As did Britain First.

I find our Brexiteer friends don't like being seen as British Trumpets. I take it you view them as such? I suppose Americans know more about what a Trumper looks like than I do, so I see no reason to disagree with you if you think they are.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:35 pm

stratosphere wrote:

IQ exam to vote I agree and all the Hillary voters are the first ones who need to be tested...


I believe that Hilary fans would do far better than Trump fans. The first description of Trump's base is "no college degree".

Tbe real issue though is the need for IQ testing and a psych eval for people wanting to RUN for a national office. Trump might get lucky on the IQ as I'm sure it is over 100, but that psych eval would be brutal for him.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:09 am

Ken777 wrote:
Trump might get lucky on the IQ as I'm sure it is over 100,


I honestly wouldn't be so sure.

He displays a severe lack of coherent speech ability. He has the vocabulary and loquacity of a grade schooler.
He seems to be easily swayed by anybody who manages to get his attention, to the point of seemingly constantly flip flopping on many issues.
He shows little sign of understanding any of the issues or bills being discussed and proposed. He never talked about any of the details or concrete workings of the healthcare bill or the currently proposed tax bill, other than the usual and repetitive superlatives he likes to use. He never delves into any of the issues at hand, and prefers to always divert the conversation towards vague and incomprehensible topics.
World leaders seem to easily outsmart him to the point of getting pretty much whatever they want from him when meeting him (Xi Xinping is a good example).
Another dead giveaway is his constant need to positively affirm how smart he is, often unprompted. There's your sign of inferiority complex and resulting need to overcompensate right there...
The man is quite obviously completely out of his depth in his current position.

The only thing I'll credit Trump with is being a good con artist. His whole life has revolved around trying to abuse people's good faith, innocence or gullibility to his own advantage. Becoming POTUS is the greatest con he's ever pulled.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:25 am

BobPatterson wrote:
keesje wrote:
I'm for an IQ exam before you are allowed to vote.


I do think there should be a test which must be taken and passed in English. Native born Americans should be required to take it to qualify and register to vote. Same test as for citizenship. Can you read and understand the Constitution?

No language other than English. If you cannot read, understand and discuss, in English, current political events, you should not be registered to vote.


In a way I agree, but then this country has a history of "Literacy Tests are pretty effective. in some southern studies designed to keep blacks from voting, Having a black who was denied the same quality of an education as a white reading and explaining a page from Shakespeare and then discussing what they read?
 
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keesje
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:14 am

Wouldn't a simple language / background / political independent IQ check be possible ? You don't want to stear a vote. In interviews, talking to people it becomes clear many have no idea what they vote for. They go for one liners & smiling faces, learn "them" a lesson.

The media proves extremely powerful. Buying air time, boosting half truths, creating perceptions, false aquisations, foreign power players, repeating/liking/sharing non-sense has significant influence. A large part of the populations is taken for a ride & votes.

Image

Vigilantly accusing others of what you are doing yourself, proves a very effective defense (fake news).

Leaving the public with the perceptions everyone is a crook.

That's one up, if in reality you are really the only crook. You "neutralized" the situation..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:17 am

Will there be Benghazi Style investigation after investigation if an US embassy gets attacked and people get killed?

State Dept. Warned That Trump’s Anti-Muslim Tweets Could Endanger Embassies: Report


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/st ... b8ea20b0d1

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:06 pm

To me Trump reminds me of the Baldrick character from 'Blackadder'.

Trump is a moron, with just enough brains to be dangerous. He is uncouth, has the self-control of a toddler, he is openly racist, sexist, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant to a extreme level. He has no understanding of government or his place in it. He is a phony, greedy, incompetent, who shouldn't be allowed out in public. He wouldn't qualify to run a McDonalds franchise or even take orders at the counter at one. As a previous poster noted in part he is putting this country at grave risk of a terror attack on our soil or at a embassy. I wish Twitter had enough guts to terminate his private account on TOS violations including his anti-Islamic postings.

He must be shunned and disrespected by all good people, world leaders should not allow him into their countries, removed from office by Impeachment or the 25th Amendment or hopefully drop dead of a heart attack or stoke as soon as possible before he ruins this country. And those are the ways I would describe him without obscenities.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:05 pm

ltbewr wrote:
To me Trump reminds me of the Baldrick character from 'Blackadder'.

Trump is a moron, with just enough brains to be dangerous. He is uncouth, has the self-control of a toddler, he is openly racist, sexist, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant to a extreme level. He has no understanding of government or his place in it. He is a phony, greedy, incompetent, who shouldn't be allowed out in public. He wouldn't qualify to run a McDonalds franchise or even take orders at the counter at one. As a previous poster noted in part he is putting this country at grave risk of a terror attack on our soil or at a embassy. I wish Twitter had enough guts to terminate his private account on TOS violations including his anti-Islamic postings.

He must be shunned and disrespected by all good people, world leaders should not allow him into their countries, removed from office by Impeachment or the 25th Amendment or hopefully drop dead of a heart attack or stoke as soon as possible before he ruins this country. And those are the ways I would describe him without obscenities.


* clapping *
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Jetty
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:07 pm

There would have been dozens of valid videos available for the POTUS to make his point, and yet he manages to find a video of a pointless assault in The Netherlands not committed by a Muslim. Quite an accomplishment as Muslims here are known for their violent crime perpetuated by their belief that unbelievers don't have to be treated with respect.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:24 pm

Jetty wrote:
There would have been dozens of valid videos available for the POTUS to make his point, and yet he manages to find a video of a pointless assault in The Netherlands not committed by a Muslim. Quite an accomplishment as Muslims here are known for their violent crime perpetuated by their belief that unbelievers don't have to be treated with respect.


That is racist and shows you don't know what is going on in the Netherlands. Let me guess a PVV voter?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Jetty
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:37 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Jetty wrote:
There would have been dozens of valid videos available for the POTUS to make his point, and yet he manages to find a video of a pointless assault in The Netherlands not committed by a Muslim. Quite an accomplishment as Muslims here are known for their violent crime perpetuated by their belief that unbelievers don't have to be treated with respect.


That is racist and shows you don't know what is going on in the Netherlands. Let me guess a PVV voter?

If it's racist then please tell me since when the Muslim race exists.:liar: I know very well what's going on in The Netherlands as I'm Dutch. Are you really denying that Muslims are vastly overrepresented when it comes to violent crime compared to the general population as well as non-Muslim migrants? Will provide proof if that's the case.

Oh, I vote FvD. :veryhappy:
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:45 pm

Jetty wrote:
If it's racist then please tell me since when the Muslim race exists.


Humans don´t have races, it can only be used allegorical, so that is just as wrong or right as any use of racism regarding human beings.

Will provide proof if that's the case.:


So, you came to the conclusion that Muslims are more violent than non-Muslims without data? Interesting....

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:58 pm

Jetty wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Jetty wrote:
There would have been dozens of valid videos available for the POTUS to make his point, and yet he manages to find a video of a pointless assault in The Netherlands not committed by a Muslim. Quite an accomplishment as Muslims here are known for their violent crime perpetuated by their belief that unbelievers don't have to be treated with respect.


That is racist and shows you don't know what is going on in the Netherlands. Let me guess a PVV voter?

If it's racist then please tell me since when the Muslim race exists.:liar: I know very well what's going on in The Netherlands as I'm Dutch. Are you really denying that Muslims are vastly overrepresented when it comes to violent crime compared to the general population as well as non-Muslim migrants? Will provide proof if that's the case.

Oh, I vote FvD. :veryhappy:


FvD = PVV lite, so that fits well.

According to Dutch justice system, you are a racist if you discriminate against Muslims. So do you know what's going on in The Netherlands? Are Muslims vastly overrepresented? Or are people from Marroccan and/or Turkish descent? See the difference there?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Jetty
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:07 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Humans don´t have races, it can only be used allegorical, so that is just as wrong or right as any use of racism regarding human beings.

All true, but racism does rely on the perception of different human races. And as even no perception exists of there being a Muslim race it hasn't got anything to do with racism. That's true for me as well: I judge Muslims because of what they choose to believe, not because the way they look.

So, you came to the conclusion that Muslims are more violent than non-Muslims without data? Interesting....

Of course not, but it's pretty pointless to provide sources proving generally known facts. Even knowing his point of view I doubt Dutchy denies this being true (he might somehow deny the relation though).
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:22 pm

Jetty wrote:
I judge Muslims because of what they choose to believe, not because the way they look.


But do you? "over een kam scheren" is something which happens to pop up into my mind. So in your mind, Muslims can be judged because what they believe, not what they actually do? And Muslims aren't monolith like you are suggesting, just see what is happening in the ME. And one Muslim isn't the other, some do bad things - do they even believe in Islam? and thus are Muslims? - some are more upstanding citizens than you.

I judge people by their actions, not because what they happened to believe.

Jetty wrote:
Of course not, but it's pretty pointless to provide sources proving generally known facts. Even knowing his point of view I doubt Dutchy denies this being true (he might somehow deny the relation though).


To prove a causal link, you need to correct for all other circumstances, I doubt there is such a causal link, scientifically proven of course. But please provide a peer-reviewed sturdy which underlines your point.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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OA412
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:45 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Will there be Benghazi Style investigation after investigation if an US embassy gets attacked and people get killed?
State Dept. Warned That Trump’s Anti-Muslim Tweets Could Endanger Embassies: Report

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/st ... b8ea20b0d1


I've said it before and I'll say it again, his Twitter account presents a clear and present danger to the safety and security of the United States. Meanwhile, Twitter is sitting around with its thumb up its butt...

ltbewr wrote:
To me Trump reminds me of the Baldrick character from 'Blackadder'.

Trump is a moron, with just enough brains to be dangerous. He is uncouth, has the self-control of a toddler, he is openly racist, sexist, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant to a extreme level. He has no understanding of government or his place in it. He is a phony, greedy, incompetent, who shouldn't be allowed out in public. He wouldn't qualify to run a McDonalds franchise or even take orders at the counter at one. As a previous poster noted in part he is putting this country at grave risk of a terror attack on our soil or at a embassy. I wish Twitter had enough guts to terminate his private account on TOS violations including his anti-Islamic postings.

He must be shunned and disrespected by all good people, world leaders should not allow him into their countries, removed from office by Impeachment or the 25th Amendment or hopefully drop dead of a heart attack or stoke as soon as possible before he ruins this country. And those are the ways I would describe him without obscenities.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: All of this!
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WIederling
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:05 pm

Flighty wrote:
Britain voted for Brexit. Do you have any more questions?


The majority probably based on lies and misrepresentations and just plain uninformednes.

I do wonder how a repeat vote would fare.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:13 pm

OA412 wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, his Twitter account presents a clear and present danger to the safety and security of the United States. Meanwhile, Twitter is sitting around with its thumb up its butt...


endanger safety and security of the USA?

That is a longstanding endeavor and the (uniformed but patriotic) masses have been clapping their approval all the time.

What Trump changed is no longer trying to appear polite and instead going with a heavy fly swatter after the steaming piles.
Brown sprinkles all over the global place.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Jetty
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:19 pm

Dutchy wrote:
According to Dutch justice system, you are a racist if you discriminate against Muslims.

False. Discrimination based on (perceived) race and religion are named separately in Dutch law, and thus not considered to be the same. http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0001854/2 ... Artikel137

So do you know what's going on in The Netherlands? Are Muslims vastly overrepresented? Or are people from Marroccan and/or Turkish descent? See the difference there?

I see the difference, but it's true for both. Muslims from other countries (Somalia, Afghanistan i.e.) are also vastly overrepresented.

Dutchy wrote:
But do you? "over een kam scheren" is something which happens to pop up into my mind. So in your mind, Muslims can be judged because what they believe, not what they actually do? And Muslims aren't monolith like you are suggesting, just see what is happening in the ME. And one Muslim isn't the other, some do bad things - do they even believe in Islam? and thus are Muslims? - some are more upstanding citizens than you.

I judge people by their actions, not because what they happened to believe.

Sure, there is difference. But all Muslims have in common that they chose to belief the Quran (someone who doesn't isn't a Muslim), the content of which I find so appalling that to me it says something about a person if he/she is OK with it. Contrary to what you seem to imply religion isn't distributed randomly, every person has a choice what to believe.

Jetty wrote:
To prove a causal link, you need to correct for all other circumstances, I doubt there is such a causal link, scientifically proven of course. But please provide a peer-reviewed sturdy which underlines your point.

I said a could prove the fact, not the causal link. That hasn't been scientifically proven, neither has it been disproven. The causal link is my point of view, shared by many others though. Here's a very good explanation by a Dutch immigrant: https://www.volkskrant.nl/magazine/-gan ... ~a3689940/
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:34 pm

Jetty wrote:
Of course not, but it's pretty pointless to provide sources proving generally known facts.


You know, this forum has rules, you may want to read them. If you make a claim, you have to provide a source for your claim. Claiming that it is a well known fact doesn't cut it. Especially when it is not well known, apparently, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So, where is your evidence for

a) that Muslims are more violent and
b) in case that they are, show that they are because they are Muslims, and not just because they happen to live in an certain geographical area, i.e. you have to demonstrate that your claim is true for all Muslims, regardless of where they live or grew up.

Otherwise your "hypothesis" is proven wrong.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:40 pm

Jetty wrote:
Sure, there is difference. But all Muslims have in common that they chose to belief the Quran (someone who doesn't isn't a Muslim), the content of which I find so appalling that to me it says something about a person if he/she is OK with it.


But I guess people believing in the "Let's celebrate genocide, rape, child murder and whatever else is bad" old testament are not equally despicable for you?

Contrary to what you seem to imply religion isn't distributed randomly, every person has a choice what to believe.


The number of children just happening to have the same belief as their parents would indicate that there is much less a matter of choice than to who gets to fill your head with lies first.
You chose what and if you believe about as much as you pick who you fall in love with.

Best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:12 pm

Jetty wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
According to Dutch justice system, you are a racist if you discriminate against Muslims.

False. Discrimination based on (perceived) race and religion are named separately in Dutch law, and thus not considered to be the same. http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0001854/2 ... Artikel137


Jet, if you are more comfortable with it, it is discrimination.

Although take a look at: 5.4.2 for the interpretation of "ras" with this article and racism: https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... 2016:15014

Jetty wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
But do you? "over een kam scheren" is something which happens to pop up into my mind. So in your mind, Muslims can be judged because what they believe, not what they actually do? And Muslims aren't monolith like you are suggesting, just see what is happening in the ME. And one Muslim isn't the other, some do bad things - do they even believe in Islam? and thus are Muslims? - some are more upstanding citizens than you.

I judge people by their actions, not because what they happened to believe.

Sure, there is difference. But all Muslims have in common that they chose to belief the Quran (someone who doesn't isn't a Muslim), the content of which I find so appalling that to me it says something about a person if he/she is OK with it. Contrary to what you seem to imply religion isn't distributed randomly, every person has a choice what to believe.

The content of the Quaran? Did you read it all and did you compare it to the Bible? Yes, every person has a choice to believe or not. Sure. But what is your point? My point being, it isn't distributed randomly and it is more widespread in lower social classes, where crime is more abundant and there are cultural influences, not being Islam perse,

Jetty wrote:
To prove a causal link, you need to correct for all other circumstances, I doubt there is such a causal link, scientifically proven of course. But please provide a peer-reviewed sturdy which underlines your point.

I said a could prove the fact, not the causal link. That hasn't been scientifically proven, neither has it been disproven. The causal link is my point of view, shared by many others though. Here's a very good explanation by a Dutch immigrant: https://www.volkskrant.nl/magazine/-gan ... ~a3689940/[/quote]

Causal link is your point of view? That is dangerous: opinion (point of view) mixing with a fact (causal link). That's why I object to this kind of statements. It doesn't help any debate and will only cause more division in our society and isn't a solution to the problem of criminal behavior of this group. So do you want to actually do something about this or only shouting about a fake solution?

From your own link (opinion and not a scientific article): "De synthese tussen criminaliteit, straatleven en de islamitische religie is een uniek Europees probleem, schrijft psycholoog Timon Dias."
If it is a uniquely European problem, it can't be a problem with the Islam itself. And that is exactly my point.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:08 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
keesje wrote:
I'm for an IQ exam before you are allowed to vote.

One can have a relatively high IQ while having no knowledge about the issues being voted on.

Back in the 70s and 80s I knew some otherwise intelligent old-timers who were still voting against Herbert Hoover. "Just show me who the democrats are."

I do think there should be a test which must be taken and passed in English. Native born Americans should be required to take it to qualify and register to vote. Same test as for citizenship. Can you read and understand the Constitution?

No language other than English. If you cannot read, understand and discuss, in English, current political events, you should not be registered to vote.


Why not just allow only property owners to vote, and none of those pesky women or coloureds.
 
LMP737
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:11 pm

ER757 wrote:
I envision President Pence before Trump's first term is scheduled to end


Pence scares me almost as much as Trump does.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:26 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Pence scares me almost as much as Trump does.

At least we know where Pence stands. With Trump, you can't do much of anything. He'll tell you one thing today and switch sides tomorrow.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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ER757
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:45 pm

LMP737 wrote:
ER757 wrote:
I envision President Pence before Trump's first term is scheduled to end


Pence scares me almost as much as Trump does.

At least he's an adult. Having a petulant 7 year old with the nuclear codes scares me a whole lot more than a evangelical zealot.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:21 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Of course not, but it's pretty pointless to provide sources proving generally known facts.


You know, this forum has rules, you may want to read them. If you make a claim, you have to provide a source for your claim. Claiming that it is a well known fact doesn't cut it. Especially when it is not well known, apparently, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So, where is your evidence for

a) that Muslims are more violent and
b) in case that they are, show that they are because they are Muslims, and not just because they happen to live in an certain geographical area, i.e. you have to demonstrate that your claim is true for all Muslims, regardless of where they live or grew up.

Otherwise your "hypothesis" is proven wrong.

Best regards
Thomas


Well you know what Muslims are not doing a whole lot to help their cause. The majority of them are not really willing to condemn the acts of the radicals that are causing havoc around the globe. This to me means they somewhat are ok with whats going on. As for the middle east I still cannot wrap my head around you liberals who call out everyone who offends you especially Christians ( I am an atheist by the way) but these ME countries that suppress women and kill gays you are all silent and even defend them that baffles me. I lost 2 friends at the World Trade Center during 9/11 forgive me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for any Muslims.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5309
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:38 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
At least we know where Pence stands


Yes, that's what scares me
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5309
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:58 am

stratosphere wrote:

Well you know what Muslims are not doing a whole lot to help their cause. The majority of them are not really willing to condemn the acts of the radicals that are causing havoc around the globe.


When was the last time someone asked a middle class white male to condemn the actions of a mass shoter in the US solely because they were a middle class white male?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:10 am

stratosphere wrote:
Well you know what Muslims are not doing a whole lot to help their cause. The majority of them are not really willing to condemn the acts of the radicals that are causing havoc around the globe. This to me means they somewhat are ok with whats going on. As for the middle east I still cannot wrap my head around you liberals who call out everyone who offends you especially Christians ( I am an atheist by the way) but these ME countries that suppress women and kill gays you are all silent and even defend them that baffles me. I lost 2 friends at the World Trade Center during 9/11 forgive me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for any Muslims.


I feel you cannot blame each and every Muslim for the deeds of a couple of extremists. The same as with Christians not condemning Christians extremist etc. etc.

The ME is a mess with a lot of nasty regimes.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15964
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:09 am

LMP737 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Well you know what Muslims are not doing a whole lot to help their cause. The majority of them are not really willing to condemn the acts of the radicals that are causing havoc around the globe.


When was the last time someone asked a middle class white male to condemn the actions of a mass shoter in the US solely because they were a middle class white male?

:checkmark: :checkmark: Or evangelicals to disavow a fellow evangelical pedophile. Whoops just kidding they vote them into office.

Dutchy wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
Well you know what Muslims are not doing a whole lot to help their cause. The majority of them are not really willing to condemn the acts of the radicals that are causing havoc around the globe. This to me means they somewhat are ok with whats going on. As for the middle east I still cannot wrap my head around you liberals who call out everyone who offends you especially Christians ( I am an atheist by the way) but these ME countries that suppress women and kill gays you are all silent and even defend them that baffles me. I lost 2 friends at the World Trade Center during 9/11 forgive me if I don't have a lot of sympathy for any Muslims.


I feel you cannot blame each and every Muslim for the deeds of a couple of extremists. The same as with Christians not condemning Christians extremist etc. etc.

The ME is a mess with a lot of nasty regimes.

:checkmark: How many civilians do you think the US has killed in the Middle East just in the last year? "The drone bombings shall continue until you improve your attitude"
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Jetty
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:05 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
You know, this forum has rules, you may want to read them. If you make a claim, you have to provide a source for your claim. Claiming that it is a well known fact doesn't cut it. Especially when it is not well known, apparently, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Please link me to the rule you're referring to as I can't find it. It is a well known fact in The Netherlands, and I was replying to Dutchy who doesn't even deny this if you read careful, he just denies the relation.

So, where is your evidence for

a) that Muslims are more violent and
b) in case that they are, show that they are because they are Muslims, and not just because they happen to live in an certain geographical area, i.e. you have to demonstrate that your claim is true for all Muslims, regardless of where they live or grew up.

a) Over 60% of Muslims in The Netherlands is Moroccan or Turkish. Over 95% over Moroccan and Turkish people in The Netherlands are Muslim. Turkish people are committing 3 times more crime than native Dutch people, Moroccans 7 times more. Other people from Muslim countries are also far more Criminal, i.e. Somalians 6 times more, Iraqis and Iranians 4 times more. https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/achtergrond/20 ... minaliteit

b) I don't have to prove this at all. I said that the relation between crime and Muslims is that they disrespect non-believers. This causes them to commit more crime in Western countries where they live among non-believers, but obviously doesn't apply to Muslim countries.

tommy1808 wrote:
But I guess people believing in the "Let's celebrate genocide, rape, child murder and whatever else is bad" old testament are not equally despicable for you?

I don't like any religion and think all are bad, this doesn't mean there isn't a difference between them though. The worst ones are the Abrahamic religions and among them Islam is most evil. So Islam is the worst of the worst. Mohammed ordered the killing of many people, of how many did Jesus?

The number of children just happening to have the same belief as their parents would indicate that there is much less a matter of choice than to who gets to fill your head with lies first.
You chose what and if you believe about as much as you pick who you fall in love with.

That indicates it's a tough decision to leave the religion of your parents, not that there isn't a choice. There are upstanding children with Islamic parents who denounce Islam, even in countries as Saudi-Arabia.
 
Jetty
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:19 pm

Jetty wrote:
The content of the Quaran? Did you read it all and did you compare it to the Bible? Yes, every person has a choice to believe or not. Sure. But what is your point?

My point is that it's fair to judge people based on the choices they make. Hence I would never intentionally discriminate based on skin-color etc., but I have no problem with finding someone who approves of Mohammed less upstanding than someone who denounces his evil ideas.

Jetty wrote:
It doesn't help any debate and will only cause more division in our society and isn't a solution to the problem of criminal behavior of this group. So do you want to actually do something about this or only shouting about a fake solution?

A start of a solution is to recognize the problem.

From your own link (opinion and not a scientific article): "De synthese tussen criminaliteit, straatleven en de islamitische religie is een uniek Europees probleem, schrijft psycholoog Timon Dias."
If it is a uniquely European problem, it can't be a problem with the Islam itself. And that is exactly my point.

Yes it can, I said that Islam causes a problem when Muslims are among non-believers. That happens in Europe, obviously not in Muslim-countries. Other non-Muslim countries with a large Muslim minority experience big issues with Muslims as well (Russia, China, India, Burma, The Philippines).
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:11 am

Jetty wrote:
Please link me to the rule you're referring to as I can't find it. It is a well known fact in The Netherlands, and I was replying to Dutchy who doesn't even deny this if you read careful, he just denies the relation.


It is pretty much at the very beginning of the forum rules: "When stating facts, statistics or newsworthy bulletins, please be sure to include an HTML link or reference to a publication. If you are merely providing an opinion, please MENTION THIS in your post. It is each member's responsibility to avoid arguments based on rumors or misinformation."

You find the link to the forum rules as a quick link at the bottom of the page. Claiming "it is a well known fact", which it isn´t, isn´t a source.

a) Over 60% of Muslims in The Netherlands is Moroccan or Turkish. Over 95% over Moroccan and Turkish people in The Netherlands are Muslim. Turkish people are committing 3 times more crime than native Dutch people, Moroccans 7 times more. Other people from Muslim countries are also far more Criminal, i.e. Somalians 6 times more, Iraqis and Iranians 4 times more. https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/achtergrond/20 ... minaliteit


So you have no evidence supporting your claim this has anything to do with religion.

b) I don't have to prove this at all. I said that the relation between crime and Muslims is that they disrespect non-believers. This causes them to commit more crime in Western countries where they live among non-believers, but obviously doesn't apply to Muslim countries.


You still have to proof that this is because they are Muslims, that little piece of data you provided rather seems to indicate religion has nothing to do with it.

I don't like any religion and think all are bad, this doesn't mean there isn't a difference between them though. The worst ones are the Abrahamic religions and among them Islam is most evil. So Islam is the worst of the worst. Mohammed ordered the killing of many people, of how many did Jesus?


While i agree, all religion is nonsense and evil, Jesus probably just didn´t kill people because there where not enough people around to quench his blood thirst. After all, in revelation he says that he will put about 7 Trillion people in an enormous wine press to fill a sea of blood.
And since Jesus and God are the same, he killed millions before his really bad weekend on earth. Unless of course you want to claim that the Quaran is historical and the bible is made up non-sense. Which would be weird, since the historicity of Muhammed isn´t really better attested than Jesus´s, and there is no evidence for him walking earth or otherwise existing.
.
best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D
 
User avatar
BobPatterson
Posts: 3381
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Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:31 am

Jetty wrote:
a) Over 60% of Muslims in The Netherlands is Moroccan or Turkish. Over 95% over Moroccan and Turkish people in The Netherlands are Muslim. Turkish people are committing 3 times more crime than native Dutch people, Moroccans 7 times more. Other people from Muslim countries are also far more Criminal, i.e. Somalians 6 times more, Iraqis and Iranians 4 times more. https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/achtergrond/20 ... minaliteit

Perhaps if the Netherlands and other countries applied some elements of Sharia law to Muslim criminals (amputation of a hand) the crime rate would go down.

I wonder whether there is any truth to be found here: http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-europe.html
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Trump Retweets Anti-Muslim Videos

Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:55 am

BobPatterson wrote:
I wonder whether there is any truth to be found here: http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-europe.html


Can´t gurantee for other nations, but for Germany it is total bullshit. That the Sharia Police is englisch, and not Sharia Polizei, is pretty much a dead giveaway that they made it for international consumption. Sven Lau, the leader of that bunch, even said that a Sharia Police never existed, it was pretty much a flash mob. They also didn´t even try to enforce Sharia law in the streets, they approached people that seemed like they may be Muslim to tell them that gambling and drinking are not allowed in their religion. They did so in front of casinos, bars and dance clubs. While an obvious PR stunt, they didn´t do any more or less than the "The End is near, repent!" crowd.
You can go to an Sharia Court for arbitration if both parties should chose to, no one has the right to tell you what arbitration you can or can´t use, and German judges will quote the Quran occasionally, to assess if the marriage was legal in the country where it was done, if that country is under sharia law. Just like they may cite US law when considering the legality of US marriage. There also wasn´t a judge saying "Beating your wife is ok, because the Quran says so", suck it up and go home to your husband, she "only" ruled that she has lived in that Marriage with her Muslim husband, that does believe in Sharia Law, and it therefore doesn´t offer sufficient ground to shorten the one year of separation required before a marriage gets divorced further, which is already the abbreviated version for a non-consensual divorce, if your partner doesn´t want to divorce you, you usually have to wait three years. Under the same circumstances a German wife would get the same ruling, just with other cultural references. They already lived separated.

best regards
Thomas
NIKV69 wrote:
The race is over. Moore has over 50% of the vote with just about half the votes in. Jones can't overcome that. McConnell has 10am meeting tomorrow so they can get this guy removed. At least the seat stays Republican. That is the important thing.
:D

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