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User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 10680
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:40 am

Tomorrow is Christmas for the downtrodden, and a most joyous Christmas to the tune of approxinately One trillion dollars for the Republican funders. Good for them, but I have to wonder about how good it will be for his redneck supporters. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 16135
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:24 pm

Quite impressed with Pence's voracious blowjob...I don't think Mother has to worry about other *women* in the room with her husband...
https://www.thedailybeast.com/my-theory ... -fulsomely
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6110
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Isn't it nice to know the true identity of the forgotten men and women?

Apparently they hang out at, and can afford the fees to be members of, Mar-A-Lago.

Oh how I hope a recording emerges of how Trump told his members how they all got a lot richer. It will make Romney's 47% gaffe seem like small change.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 7275
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:24 pm

My bet for the biggest reason why Republican's may very well lose their tax reform bet is because they will have to respond to how the changes affect federal inflows. How companies and tax experts and states as well as the public react to and create new strategies that take advantage of the changes and maximize the tax savings/reduction. I very much believe the reduction to the treasury will be larger than even Republican's can accept and they will in turn have to makes change to address the tax intake (increase taxes). This happened with Reagan's cuts as well.

The market is very effective and I cannot see how what was passed could have been vetted so well as to prevent this from happening. We will have to wait and see of course. I just figured I would put this out there. You may flame away.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9689
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:24 am

In France president Macron having liberal (in the true sense of the world) tendencies, a reduction of several taxes is also being implemented. However this is done over the 5 years of his term, for example the corporate tax will go from 33.3% to 31% in 2019, 28% in 2020, 26,5% in 2021 and 25% in 2022. Other taxes are lowered while corresponding (modest) cuts are being made in spending.

Overall it should still "favor" the rich but some taxes were clearly hurting the economy, for example capital gains taxes at more than 50%, now lowered to 30%.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8060
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Older generations that are more likely to be in the 1% :

Image


Keynesian economics was a total disaster, which is why there was a huge political change that allowed for a change in economic thinking. Stagflation proved Keynes wrong. The entire planet has slowly realized and abandoned his ideas, though not completely yet. The third world still clings to it harder than anyone else.

It's absurd to suggest things were going great until 1979.


Really? Because, according to all graphs and reports we have ever seen, things were going great until Reagan took over. The rich were getting richer, the poor were getting richer and we all were doing pretty good until Reagan took over.


That's because that economy was based on consuming savings from current and previous generations, and even future ones through debt, which feels great--while it lasts.
Fixing all of this is painful and there's no escaping it. And Reagan didn't fix it all, either. There's still a lot to fix.


And BTW, it was JIMMY CARTER who deregulated the economy. What he did is far more important than the revenue-neutral tax reform Ronald Reagan did. That and the appointment of Paul Volcker to the Fed, which Reagan reappointed. Volcker is the man credit with turning the US economy around and kicking stagflation to the curb.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 7610
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:23 pm

Tugger wrote:
My bet for the biggest reason why Republican's may very well lose their tax reform bet is because they will have to respond to how the changes affect federal inflows. How companies and tax experts and states as well as the public react to and create new strategies that take advantage of the changes and maximize the tax savings/reduction. I very much believe the reduction to the treasury will be larger than even Republican's can accept and they will in turn have to makes change to address the tax intake (increase taxes). This happened with Reagan's cuts as well.

The market is very effective and I cannot see how what was passed could have been vetted so well as to prevent this from happening. We will have to wait and see of course. I just figured I would put this out there. You may flame away.

Tugg

Unfortunately, spending cuts and or looking for ways to make Federal and Local Government spending more efficient will not be on the cards.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9498
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:28 am

Tugger wrote:
My bet for the biggest reason why Republican's may very well lose their tax reform bet is because they will have to respond to how the changes affect federal inflows. How companies and tax experts and states as well as the public react to and create new strategies that take advantage of the changes and maximize the tax savings/reduction. I very much believe the reduction to the treasury will be larger than even Republican's can accept and they will in turn have to makes change to address the tax intake (increase taxes). This happened with Reagan's cuts as well.

The market is very effective and I cannot see how what was passed could have been vetted so well as to prevent this from happening. We will have to wait and see of course. I just figured I would put this out there. You may flame away.

Tugg


There is no doubt in my mind that the GOP games will fall short of their wet dreams. Deadbeat Don went on and on about ATT giving all employers $1,000. Now after a week of bragging ATT has announced that they are laying off 2,000 employees, including a lot of technical staff.

Ryan has also started on how Medicare and Medicaid will need to be cut off at the knees because of the loss of tax revenue. hopefully that will require 60 votes in the Senate so we can be protected until after the 2018 Election.

Americans moving off of the ACA or being pushed off of Medicaid are going to have major impacts on medical inflation. Employers are going to continue lowering the impact of these increases, dumping those cost increases on the employees.

The tax cuts for the rich are not going to benefit middle class America. That will be shown in the 2018 Election.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2410
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:02 am

Ken777 wrote:

Ryan has also started on how Medicare and Medicaid will need to be cut off at the knees because of the loss of tax revenue. hopefully that will require 60 votes in the Senate so we can be protected until after the 2018 Election.

Americans moving off of the ACA or being pushed off of Medicaid are going to have major impacts on medical inflation. Employers are going to continue lowering the impact of these increases, dumping those cost increases on the employees.


As I said in a previous post, we saw a 10% increase in company healthcare costs for 2018, our provider is estimating a 40% increase in 2019, we as a company will absorb part of that, but yes, all employees will feel it in 2019.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6110
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:18 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
As I said in a previous post, we saw a 10% increase in company healthcare costs for 2018, our provider is estimating a 40% increase in 2019, we as a company will absorb part of that, but yes, all employees will feel it in 2019.

I wonder how my company will fare if this comes to fruition. I currently have a HDHP at no cost to me (the company pays for it) PLUS half of my deductible deposited into an HSA every year. One of the reasons I avoided jumping ship earlier in the year was because the company I was looking into had a joke for health insurance: their HDHP was at $60/paycheck and any HSA deposits were on an after-tax basis. Imagine if the effects of the tax plan boost the price of the cheapest plan to double...Oh and when comparing my company's plans to this other company's, my company's most expensive plan comes to just a tad above the other company's cheapest. So yeah...
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
apodino
Posts: 3233
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:15 am

Ken777 wrote:
The tax cuts for the rich are not going to benefit middle class America. That will be shown in the 2018 Election.

I will raise the BS Flag here. I am a middle class american and I stand to get a nearly $2,000 tax break in fiscal year 2018. (Yes I have read the bill and done the math.) Most people I know are going to get this benefit as well.

As for Health Care. Congress keeps addressing the wrong issue. Both Parties have tried to address insurance, when in actuality the cost of insurance goes up regardless of who is in power and what the political parties have tried to do. Obamacare didn't fix the problem. And while what we had before Obama care worked better, people were paying too much before which is what prompted people to try to act on it, even though the solution was worse than the original problem. The issue is health costs have skyrocketed out of control. And one of the reasons people are forced to buy insurance is because the insurance companies use economies of scale to negotiate lower (but still way too high) prices, and people cannot get those lower prices on their own. Turning it over to government the way a lot of countries have done isn't going to work because then the lobbyists will see to it that taxpayers get price gouged on this, and then we have major issues.

I dont know how medical costs get addressed, but addressing insurance without addressing the actual medical costs really doesnt get anything done and is nothing more than lipstick on a pig.
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
Posts: 11514
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:49 am

Ken777 wrote:


Ryan has also started on how Medicare and Medicaid will need to be cut off at the knees because of the loss of tax revenue. hopefully that will require 60 votes in the Senate so we can be protected until after the 2018 Election.



I doubt he will do anything to harm these entitlements. He made the stupid statement of putting seniors on vouchers and paid dearly. I would hope he learned his lesson.




Ken777 wrote:
Americans moving off of the ACA or being pushed off of Medicaid are going to have major impacts on medical inflation. Employers are going to continue lowering the impact of these increases, dumping those cost increases on the employees.


So what is new about that? Ever since the ACA passed it's been a nightmare for people already with health coverage.



Ken777 wrote:
The tax cuts for the rich are not going to benefit middle class America. That will be shown in the 2018 Election.


You keep saying for the rich but they weren't the only ones who got a tax cut. The rich hating class hate hasn't worked and was shown the door in the general election. I would wait to see how things go before you start handing the mid terms to the party who wants to raise taxes and put us in the box California is in.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6110
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:06 pm

apodino wrote:
Both Parties have tried to address insurance, when in actuality the cost of insurance goes up regardless of who is in power and what the political parties have tried to do. Obamacare didn't fix the problem.

I don't think anyone was under the impression that the ACA meant to immediately stop the cost of rising healthcare, especially after the mandate for the states was struck down. But I'll take a 3% increase over a 20% increase any day.

apodino wrote:
And while what we had before Obama care worked better, people were paying too much before which is what prompted people to try to act on it, even though the solution was worse than the original problem.

Then it didn't work better, or it did for you but not for everyone, which is what the ACA was trying to fix.

apodino wrote:
I dont know how medical costs get addressed, but addressing insurance without addressing the actual medical costs really doesnt get anything done and is nothing more than lipstick on a pig.

The government COULD address actual medical costs, but then the word "socialism" gets thrown around and efforts are abandoned.

An example: the epipen increases where in the span of 7 years the price had gone up over 400%. Another example: Shkreli and the Daraprim pill raised from $13.50 to $750 a pill. Any attempts to control market price are met with cries of socialism so of course this doesn't do much of anything. Alternative solution? Allow people to afford the medication by offering plans that can cover or significantly reduce the price.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8060
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:33 pm

That’s because price controls (in anything) are an epically stupid idea with a ton of historical precedence to back up that it’s a bad idea. That’s not the way to control drug prices, while maintaining sustainable supply, research and innovation.

What’s needed in drug pricing is IP rights reform. There’s too much abuse and nonsense going on, and not just in drugs, either.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 7275
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:34 pm

PPVRA wrote:
That’s because price controls (in anything) are an epically stupid idea with a ton of historical precedence to back up that it’s a bad idea. That’s not the way to control drug prices, while maintaining sustainable supply, research and innovation.

What’s needed in drug pricing is IP rights reform. There’s too much abuse and nonsense going on, and not just in drugs, either.

On this I basically fully agree. Patents are actually a drag on business and society. If granted they should be simpler and for a shorter period, say five to ten years. If you can't do something in that timeframe then you can sell, license, etc. and still be rewarded fro your success.

However I will note that "price controls" are not just governmental, industry does it all the time as well. So I would equally attack such fixing, collusion, and "controls" that industry does as well. For one example with pharmaceuticals, in the USA I would say we will not pay more for drugs than what is offered to any other country in the world (including discounts, etc.). The pharmaceutical company is then free to go from there.

Oh and another simple one that has been a pet peeve of mine for awhile now: Media (like movies etc.) and other such globally sourced and sold things. If you can sell a DVD or Blu-ray in one country for $1 then I should be allowed to buy it from that country and use it in my device here or anywhere. None of this "region specific" codes crap. You get to take advantage of making something in the lowest cost place worldwide, I get to also take advantage of the same and buy from the lowest cost.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
seb146
Posts: 15898
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:51 am

PPVRA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
PPVRA wrote:

Keynesian economics was a total disaster, which is why there was a huge political change that allowed for a change in economic thinking. Stagflation proved Keynes wrong. The entire planet has slowly realized and abandoned his ideas, though not completely yet. The third world still clings to it harder than anyone else.

It's absurd to suggest things were going great until 1979.


Really? Because, according to all graphs and reports we have ever seen, things were going great until Reagan took over. The rich were getting richer, the poor were getting richer and we all were doing pretty good until Reagan took over.


That's because that economy was based on consuming savings from current and previous generations, and even future ones through debt, which feels great--while it lasts.
Fixing all of this is painful and there's no escaping it. And Reagan didn't fix it all, either. There's still a lot to fix.


And BTW, it was JIMMY CARTER who deregulated the economy. What he did is far more important than the revenue-neutral tax reform Ronald Reagan did. That and the appointment of Paul Volcker to the Fed, which Reagan reappointed. Volcker is the man credit with turning the US economy around and kicking stagflation to the curb.


Two things about your graph prove you wrong:

Trickle Down started after 1980, AFTER Reagan was elected.
The rich were getting richer BEFORE Trickle Down
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9689
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:59 pm

We won't stop price control (of drugs) to please you, so you will get French prices or lower, it will be backdoor price control.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2410
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 am

Okay, I just found something interesting, the ACA mandate was NOT removed via the new tax bill, the fine was set at $0, a slight difference.

What will be interesting is with the numbers of people leaving the ACA compliant programs, they are going to be left with low income/high risk people only, who by law receive the highest subsidies for the insurance....So I wonder who is going to pay for those subsidies.....Oh yeah, the tax payers.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 6151
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:08 pm

You know those idiots in the Senate that voted to cut taxes, and didn't care about the revenue lost?

Well they found their calling on the spending bill.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... D=ref_fark


Intelligence is lost on the fiscal hawks.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
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