727LOVER
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Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:50 pm

LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Russia’s Olympic team has been barred from the 2018 Winter Games in Pyeongchang, South Korea. The country’s government officials are forbidden to attend, its flag will not be displayed at the opening ceremony and its anthem will not sound.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/05/spor ... mpics.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International/rus ... d=51582308

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WarRI1
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:06 am

Good, they are and always have been cheaters. I hope you know who stays out of it.
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LittleFokker
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:32 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Good, they are and always have been cheaters. I hope you know who stays out of it.


A story combining Russia and sports? No chance in hell he keeps his mouth shut. I'm surprised he doesn't already have a "Fake News" tweet out already proclaiming the IOC's investigation a total disaster and fraud.
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salttee
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:48 am

LittleFokker wrote:
I'm surprised he doesn't already have a "Fake News" tweet out already proclaiming the IOC's investigation a total disaster and fraud.
He's probably awaiting instructions from Putin.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:49 am

I guess Putin and his oligarch friends didn't give large enough bribes to IOC officials :twisted:
I suspect Russia will appeal this, likely going nowhere.
I do feel sorry for those athletes who are clean, worked hard for the Olympics and can't participate for themselves and nation that supported them. Some will be allowed to compete in the IOC deal but no national team officials will be allowed, in outfits without reference to Russia and if win a medal, not under Russia, or a Russia flag and no Russian National Anthem. Let's face it too, many other countries including the USA, has cheating athletes but that Russia was so bad in recent past Olympics they had to be cracked down on.
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:59 am

ltbewr wrote:
I guess Putin and his oligarch friends didn't give large enough bribes to IOC officials :twisted:
I suspect Russia will appeal this, likely going nowhere.
I do feel sorry for those athletes who are clean, worked hard for the Olympics and can't participate for themselves and nation that supported them. Some will be allowed to compete in the IOC deal but no national team officials will be allowed, in outfits without reference to Russia and if win a medal, not under Russia, or a Russia flag and no Russian National Anthem. Let's face it too, many other countries including the USA, has cheating athletes but that Russia was so bad in recent past Olympics they had to be cracked down on.


There was no bribes - this whole thing is well over-bloated. All that was there in essence - a small dirty deeds by 2-3 corrupted officials, one of whom ran away later (perhaps seeing his reputation shattering and perhaps even investigation closing in) and became the "informer". Deeds such as sales of doping bundled with cover-up services. It's impossible to tell if really any athletes used those services, and what impact did that have. These dudes had their proceedings against them. Latest Schmid's report denied that high-ranking Russian state officials were covering this fun stuff up or even aware of such "schemes". Main question is - where was WADA back in Sochi?

All these "re-tests" and medal shuffle years later doesn't really have any credibility. What's the value of a medal if an athlete didn't win it, but instead got it at some later point some political way? Same comes about the medal, when your perhaps strongest competitor wasn't competing for non-sports-related reasons. Also - "Putin and his oligarch friends" for the past 15 years did a lot to popularize this Olympic movement - investing into athlete training, facilities, promotion inside the country, huge investments into Sochi Olympics last but not least. Now Russian TV, expectedly, won't translate these games, which is a HUGE loss to the sponsors and advertisement - it's a 150 million country, and Olympics there really are #1 international competition. Now in Russian society the value of Olympics, their medals, reputation overall is shattered considerably. Will Russians re-gain interest to Olympics again? Will they even want to send there their strongest athletes? Will the state want to again invest into it? It's hard to know. Other countries are asking the same questions too. Olympics aren't the only international sports event, and over time sports fans will know - while this can be a bigger budget event, the best athletes can be found elsewhere. So - a huge blow to the Olympic movement.
 
tu204
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:55 am

ltbewr wrote:
I guess Putin and his oligarch friends didn't give large enough bribes to IOC officials :twisted:
I suspect Russia will appeal this, likely going nowhere.
I do feel sorry for those athletes who are clean, worked hard for the Olympics and can't participate for themselves and nation that supported them. Some will be allowed to compete in the IOC deal but no national team officials will be allowed, in outfits without reference to Russia and if win a medal, not under Russia, or a Russia flag and no Russian National Anthem. Let's face it too, many other countries including the USA, has cheating athletes but that Russia was so bad in recent past Olympics they had to be cracked down on.


I would be very surpised if any Russian athletes participate. It will be a full boycott by Russia. Including the entire KHL. The league has stated that they will ban all their players from participating - Russian and foreigners.
So there will be no Team Russia, no players from the NHL or KHL. Feel sorry for anyone who bought tickets in advance to watch Olympics hockey.

Keeping sports out of politics? Yeah...right.
Last edited by tu204 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B777LRF
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:58 am

Great, now let's see what FIFA does about the 2018 World Cup. Would be a tad problematic excluding Russia from that event, as they're the host. And this is FIFA, probably the only sporting organisation more corrupt than IOC.
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bgm
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 am

tu204 wrote:
Keeping sports out of politics? Yeah...right.


Keeping drugs out of sports is what the Russians couldn't fully comprehend, hence why they're banned.
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scbriml
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:44 am

tu204 wrote:
Keeping sports out of politics? Yeah...right.


Except this is about keeping state-sponsored cheating out of sports. Or did you miss that? :sarcastic:

It's a real shame that FIFA can't grow a pair like the IOC finally seem to have managed.
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:23 am

anrec80 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I guess Putin and his oligarch friends didn't give large enough bribes to IOC officials :twisted:
I suspect Russia will appeal this, likely going nowhere.
I do feel sorry for those athletes who are clean, worked hard for the Olympics and can't participate for themselves and nation that supported them. Some will be allowed to compete in the IOC deal but no national team officials will be allowed, in outfits without reference to Russia and if win a medal, not under Russia, or a Russia flag and no Russian National Anthem. Let's face it too, many other countries including the USA, has cheating athletes but that Russia was so bad in recent past Olympics they had to be cracked down on.


There was no bribes - this whole thing is well over-bloated. All that was there in essence - a small dirty deeds by 2-3 corrupted officials, one of whom ran away later (perhaps seeing his reputation shattering and perhaps even investigation closing in) and became the "informer". Deeds such as sales of doping bundled with cover-up services. It's impossible to tell if really any athletes used those services, and what impact did that have. These dudes had their proceedings against them. Latest Schmid's report denied that high-ranking Russian state officials were covering this fun stuff up or even aware of such "schemes". Main question is - where was WADA back in Sochi?

All these "re-tests" and medal shuffle years later doesn't really have any credibility. What's the value of a medal if an athlete didn't win it, but instead got it at some later point some political way? Same comes about the medal, when your perhaps strongest competitor wasn't competing for non-sports-related reasons. Also - "Putin and his oligarch friends" for the past 15 years did a lot to popularize this Olympic movement - investing into athlete training, facilities, promotion inside the country, huge investments into Sochi Olympics last but not least. Now Russian TV, expectedly, won't translate these games, which is a HUGE loss to the sponsors and advertisement - it's a 150 million country, and Olympics there really are #1 international competition. Now in Russian society the value of Olympics, their medals, reputation overall is shattered considerably. Will Russians re-gain interest to Olympics again? Will they even want to send there their strongest athletes? Will the state want to again invest into it? It's hard to know. Other countries are asking the same questions too. Olympics aren't the only international sports event, and over time sports fans will know - while this can be a bigger budget event, the best athletes can be found elsewhere. So - a huge blow to the Olympic movement.


Kuddos for defending the indefensible. Russian Olympic committee is banned because of a systemic program, not 2/3 officials you try to blame. How much of the 51bn project was corruption?

And hilariosly, we have photo evidence
Image

As far as the medals goes, same happened in bike racing, Tour the France, Armstrong was stripped of all his victories because of doping.

Yes, a 150million country with a gnp of Italy, and the rest of the world, 7,45bn, doesn't want to return to the days of USSR/DDR with state-run doping programs. They weren't there in Rio. they will not be there in South Korea, so get your act together so you will be there in the 2020 Olympics.
If athletes are clean, so checked by another doping agency which is proofed to be not corrupted, they are welcome to compete, just like any other athletes.

Russia's problem it is for Russia to solve, you cannot blame anyone else.
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 am

B777LRF wrote:
Great, now let's see what FIFA does about the 2018 World Cup. Would be a tad problematic excluding Russia from that event, as they're the host. And this is FIFA, probably the only sporting organisation more corrupt than IOC.


The Dutch and the Italians are leading here, they decided not to compete next year :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:28 am

tu204 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I guess Putin and his oligarch friends didn't give large enough bribes to IOC officials :twisted:
I suspect Russia will appeal this, likely going nowhere.
I do feel sorry for those athletes who are clean, worked hard for the Olympics and can't participate for themselves and nation that supported them. Some will be allowed to compete in the IOC deal but no national team officials will be allowed, in outfits without reference to Russia and if win a medal, not under Russia, or a Russia flag and no Russian National Anthem. Let's face it too, many other countries including the USA, has cheating athletes but that Russia was so bad in recent past Olympics they had to be cracked down on.


I would be very surpised if any Russian athletes participate. It will be a full boycott by Russia. Including the entire KHL. The league has stated that they will ban all their players from participating - Russian and foreigners.
So there will be no Team Russia, no players from the NHL or KHL. Feel sorry for anyone who bought tickets in advance to watch Olympics hockey.

Keeping sports out of politics? Yeah...right.


No, Russia is boycotted, and if the Russian authorities decide that no Russian can be part of it, although they qualified themselves and are checked by reliable doping agency, then it is up to the Russian authorities, they can't blame anyone else for it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:13 am

The 2018 Winter Olympics are not going to be seen as competitive without the Russians but there will be other issues that will be more important with them.
The 2018 games are being held in South Korea, only about 40-50 miles from the North Korean border at a time of hostile acts by NK with their missile launches and nuke bomb developments.
Although the Sochi 2014 games were corrupted to obscene levels as to the site and of the Russian team, I wouldn't doubt there is plenty of corruption in South Korea in the construction of facilities and operations of the games there.
We are seeing the possible affects of global climate change limiting the number of sites for Winter Olympics as well as a deeper reluctance of many countries to hold them due to corruption and costs issues.
We have seen how the NHL and Russian top pro hockey leagues will not release players to do so for their National teams and I suspect a growing number of athletes in the top and most paid professional levels of their sports while they might like an Olympic medal, they are more concerned with not getting hurt and lose income.
Another issue not discussed and will affect the Olympic games and especially the WInter games long term is the coverage and money from the USA broadcaster NBC. NBC overpaid for broadcast rights. Many hate that they are the only source for coverage in the USA and are blocked from accessing other country's coverage that may be much better and live and limited from using your computer or phone streaming to do so. That their coverage is set up so they make you stay up to midnight to see the most wanted events. You have to watch too many commercials so NBC can pay for them. Too many stories of athletes rather than of the events. Almost exclusive targeted coverage of USA athletes. NBC also has major scandals around it, including the recent firing of Matt Lauer for his sexual abuses of women including when he covered several past Olympics and executives who failed to deal with it earlier. I don't think people care as much about Winter sports as much as not into them as much in the past, they are into other programing so NBC will likely see a sharp decline in viewer numbers.
I suspect we may see future Winter Olympics become less watched, with fewer athletes, reduced coverage by TV and other media around the world, costs including for security keep out many bidders, changing international economics, the corruption, drug abuses and climate change affecting possible sites or interest in holding them. Maybe the time will come when the Winter - and even the Summer - Olympics will be far less important and of interest to the public and fade into the background of interest.
 
WIederling
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:25 am

This is rather amusing in context of US "sportspeople" getting the same or similar doping administered.
Only it is cloaked as "medically neccessary medication".
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/dopin ... 23934.html
use google translate

Interesting to see how far people that have no concept of "limited" competition go to "win". hollow.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:46 pm

We may see something like...
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Derico
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:58 pm

It's too late now to stop WC 2018 from happening. All that FIFA could do is make the event's focus be Fair Play, both in terms of doping and intolerance/discrimination in sport, things in which Russia is in the stone age.

But so is Europe in general, the racism seen in all major 5 leagues is appalling and sanctions are long overdue, but nothing happens. And can't forget Salt Lake City. So for all the talk about Sochi and Pyengchang and corruption, I have never seen any evidence that proves Western European or North American olympic structures are so much cleaner. Doping by American athletes who have been stripped of medals afterwards abounds. And ultimately the point is not state sponsored or not, some will tell me those doping cases were individual choices but that is an excuse. They are representing a country and the country should suffer fallout. At the very least it shows incompetence in monitoring from those committees.

But yes, Russia had to be banned. They had gotten out of control in flaunting international laws.
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tu204
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:29 pm

The arguments about cheating by Russia would have much more weight if it wasn't for those pesky little hackers that hacked USADA and leaked info around the time of Rio 2016 that a significant portion of the US Olympic team was on somekind or other banned substance, eh? Or those poor Norwegian skiiers or biathletes, suffering from Athsma? :D

Plus here is no concrete evidence. Hearsay and some reports based on my hearsay. And awesome timing too! The last scandal was a couple of months before Rio, and this obe a couple of months before Pyongchang, awesome timing. Pathetic.

Undoubtably I partially hold Russian Sports and Foreign Affairs officials at fault. In particularly for not anticipating bullshit like this after all the signs were there.

Af far as the IOC goes, as I previously said, they screwed themselves. The Olympics have been blown into a huge cash cow and this scandal, Russian athletes boycotting games plus all Russian broadcasters declining to cover this to be farce of games will mayve wake up the IOC if the damage will not be too great for them to recover.
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tu204
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:32 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Great, now let's see what FIFA does about the 2018 World Cup. Would be a tad problematic excluding Russia from that event, as they're the host. And this is FIFA, probably the only sporting organisation more corrupt than IOC.


This I kind of wish for to save the embarassment that any Euro/World Cup is for Team Russia.

Why so much money is spent on football, especially when Russian Football is so pathetic is beyond me.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Tugger
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:33 pm

tu204 wrote:
I would be very surpised if any Russian athletes participate. It will be a full boycott by Russia. Including the entire KHL. The league has stated that they will ban all their players from participating - Russian and foreigners.
So there will be no Team Russia, no players from the NHL or KHL. Feel sorry for anyone who bought tickets in advance to watch Olympics hockey.

It appears your President Putin thinks differently:
"Without a doubt, will not announce any obstacles, we won’t stop our Olympians from taking part, if someone wants to take part in a personal capacity,” Putin was cited as saying by the Interfax news agency.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/putin-s ... pics-59841

More of his statement:
This is very important for them," he added. "Based on these considerations, of course, we will not forbid anything to anyone, block anything, making any impossible conditions for participation."


Of course it will remain to be seen what the athletes themselves do. The public and personal impact will determine that. It will be interesting to see what does happen. I do hope Russian's participate, I am confident that the ROC can get things set straight.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:45 pm

The next step is to discredit the Olympic movement.
Athletes from the United States to forgive the doping and drugs, give the baton to cross without rivals, and otherwise push through them in the first place, the jury is constantly trying to help athletes from the United States, putting them higher scores than deserved.
At the same time Russian athletes suspended because of the presence in their samples Meldonium, which at the time of taking these samples were not prohibited. Or unconfirmed testimony.
It is not related neither to the honor nor to the laws - just admit it already that now the IOC is a tool designed to diminish the rating of Russia.
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:55 pm

terrible Russian tennis player using doping
Image

great American tennis player, has never used doping:
Image

As if to confuse them.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:13 pm

WIederling wrote:
This is rather amusing in context of US "sportspeople" getting the same or similar doping administered.
Only it is cloaked as "medically neccessary medication".
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/dopin ... 23934.html
use google translate

Interesting to see how far people that have no concept of "limited" competition go to "win". hollow.


So you are digging up an article from 2016, unrelated to this.
- athletes asked for permission, Therapeutic Use Exemption

Russian athletes were in a doping program and the authorities build a hole in the wall in order to help them cheat the doping test they were conducting and the FSB helped. Classic whataboutism. Russia very bad, individual American athletes a bit bad. It is not the same.

Do you have an opinion on Russian athletes and their controlling agencies cheating which resulted in an Olympic ban?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Scorpius wrote:
The next step is to discredit the Olympic movement.
Athletes from the United States to forgive the doping and drugs, give the baton to cross without rivals, and otherwise push through them in the first place, the jury is constantly trying to help athletes from the United States, putting them higher scores than deserved.
At the same time Russian athletes suspended because of the presence in their samples Meldonium, which at the time of taking these samples were not prohibited. Or unconfirmed testimony.
It is not related neither to the honor nor to the laws - just admit it already that now the IOC is a tool designed to diminish the rating of Russia.

Quite the inferiority complex you have there.

You should not worry so. Russia is a great country, with a lot of wonderful people, it is the fools that lead and advise and guide the ROC that that are the problem.

So don't despair, your fear of Russia's failings and inferiority are misguided.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:17 pm

Tugger wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
The next step is to discredit the Olympic movement.
Athletes from the United States to forgive the doping and drugs, give the baton to cross without rivals, and otherwise push through them in the first place, the jury is constantly trying to help athletes from the United States, putting them higher scores than deserved.
At the same time Russian athletes suspended because of the presence in their samples Meldonium, which at the time of taking these samples were not prohibited. Or unconfirmed testimony.
It is not related neither to the honor nor to the laws - just admit it already that now the IOC is a tool designed to diminish the rating of Russia.

Quite the inferiority complex you have there.

You should not worry so. Russia is a great country, with a lot of wonderful people, it is the fools that lead and advise and guide the ROC that that are the problem.

So don't despair, your fear of Russia's failings and inferiority are misguided.

Tugg

I have no such fear, do not worry. I see the injustice and the lies, which is placed in the Western mass-media, and only Express their attitude to it.
This and famous for the Western countries - they are utterly false, and they cannot be trusted, because they constantly deceive, deceit achieving their goals and receiving the benefits for themselves. This is a misguided policy, and as a result all mankind have to solve problems created by the Western governments.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:35 pm

Scorpius wrote:
terrible Russian tennis player using doping
Image

great American tennis player, has never used doping:
Image

As if to confuse them.


Serena uses a lot of banned substances which she has medical exemptions for.

How many Russian winter athletes have been pinged for doping, not many, certainly not as many as the summer athletes. I’m also waiting on the IOC and WADA to have a through investigation of Norway cross country programme, the dominance of Norway in this sport doesn’t sit right with me, considering there are other surrounding nations with similar winters and also passionate about the sport.
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

So you are digging up an article from 2016, unrelated to this.
- athletes asked for permission, Therapeutic Use Exemption

Russian athletes were in a doping program and the authorities build a hole in the wall in order to help them cheat the doping test they were conducting and the FSB helped. Classic whataboutism. Russia very bad, individual American athletes a bit bad. It is not the same.

Do you have an opinion on Russian athletes and their controlling agencies cheating which resulted in an Olympic ban?

- athletes asked for permission, Therapeutic Use Exemption

If you have health problems - what are you doing at the Olympics? Participate in the Paralympic games. Oh, come on - you know perfectly well that it's all bullshit. Just some athletes take "the correct dope", but for others the same doping declared "wrong". It's called "double standards".


Still defending the indefencible I see.

What double standards? Russian athletes could do and do the same, so same circumstances, same rules.

Perhaps you are now ready to answer the outstanding question, where do you get your information from?

The information I draw from many sources: the Internet, the testimony of witnesses who are my acquaintances, official documents.
This is not the first time when the Americans can't win the honest way, they go for any, even the most vile actions. The IOC decision was based on unsubstantiated accusations, which in any court would not be accepted. And it's also not the first time already.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:52 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
How many Russian winter athletes have been pinged for doping, not many, certainly not as many as the summer athletes. I’m also waiting on the IOC and WADA to have a through investigation of Norway cross country programme, the dominance of Norway in this sport doesn’t sit right with me, considering there are other surrounding nations with similar winters and also passionate about the sport.


In December 2014, German public broadcaster ARD aired a documentary which made wide-ranging allegations that Russia organized a state-run doping program which supplied their athletes with performance-enhancing drugs.[33] In November 2015, Russia's track and field team was provisionally suspended by the IAAF.[34]

In May 2016, The New York Times published allegations by the former director of Russia's anti-doping laboratory, Grigory Rodchenkov, that a conspiracy of corrupt anti-doping officials, FSB intelligence agents, and compliant Russian athletes used banned substances to gain an unfair advantage during the Games.[35] Rodchenkov stated that the FSB tampered with over 100 urine samples as part of a cover-up, and that a third of the Russian medals won at Sochi were the result of doping.[35][36][37][38]

In December 2016, The New York Times reported that senior Russian officials carried out one of the biggest conspiracies in sports history — a far-reaching doping operation that implicated scores of Russian athletes and tainted not just the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi but also the entire Olympic movement. It was confirmed that a lab director tampered with urine samples at the Olympics and provided cocktails of performance-enhancing drugs, corrupting some of the world’s most prestigious competitions. Members of the Federal Security Service (a successor to the K.G.B.) broke into sample bottles holding urine. In addition, a deputy sports minister for years ordered cover-ups of top athletes’ use of banned substances. Anna Antseliovich, the acting director general of Russia’s national antidoping agency characterized Russia's cheating program as an "institutional conspiracy.”[39] She later confirmed that her words were "taken out of context" and "distorted".[40] However, Russia continued to deny any involvement of the state.[41]

In December, 2016, following the release of the McLaren report on Russian doping at the Sochi Olympics, the International Olympic Committee announced the initiation of an investigation of 28 Russian athletes at the Sochi Olympic Games. La Gazzetta dello Sport reported the names of 17 athletes, of whom 15 are among the 28 under investigation.[42][43] The Russian team potentially could be stripped of up to 12 Olympic medals.

Three ladies artistic skaters were named as being under investigation. They are Adelina Sotnikova, the singles gold medalist, as well as pairs skaters Tatiana Volosozhar and Ksenia Stolbova. Volosozhar and Stolbova won gold and silver medals, respectively, in pairs skating. Both also won gold medals in the team event, which also puts the other eight team medalists at risk of losing their golds.

Six skiers were suspended from competition on the basis of the McLaren report: Evgeniy Belov, Alexander Legkov, Alexey Petukhov, Maxim Vylegzhanin, Yulia Ivanova, and Yevgeniya Shapovalova. Legkov won a gold medal, and Vylegzhanin won three silver medals.

The International Biathlon Union suspended two biathletes who were in the Sochi games: Olga Vilukhina and Yana Romanova, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport. Vilukhina won silver in sprint, and both women were on a relay team that won the silver medal.

The International Bobsleigh and Skeleton Federation suspended four skeleton sliders. They are among the six athletes on the skeleton team: Nikita Tregubov, Alexander Tretyakov, Elena Nikitina, Maria Orlova, and Olga Potylitsina. Tretyakov won a gold medal, and Nikitina won a bronze.


Rodchenkov: Up to a 1/3 of the Russian medals won are a result of doping.

Indeed not many Rob..........

Norway? It doesn't sit right to you? Why do you bring this to the table? No reason to, you have no evidence, only your feeling, compare this to massive evidence which resulted in a ban of a nation. So this is also whataboutism, a popular method of the Russian defenders on this forum and popular methode back in the CCCP days. You have me puzzled though, you sugest to be a New Zealander, but I noticed you acting like a Russian, passionate defending the undefensable.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:02 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Perhaps you are now ready to answer the outstanding question, where do you get your information from?

The information I draw from many sources: the Internet, the testimony of witnesses who are my acquaintances, official documents.

"the Internet" --> By your own account, you do not speak English, so can I presume most of your "internet" sources will consist of Russian sites?
"testimony of witnesses who are my acquaintances" --> anecdotical evidence is the lowest form of evidence, so that doesn't count and with world events the chances of someone who you know, knows all the ins and outs are slim at best
"official documents" --> Russian documents?

Ok, now I know why you have such a destorted version of the world.

Scorpius wrote:
This is not the first time when the Americans can't win the honest way, they go for any, even the most vile actions. The IOC decision was based on unsubstantiated accusations, which in any court would not be accepted. And it's also not the first time already.


Based on what information do you make this statement? Big statements takes big evidence.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 pm

Scorpius wrote:
terrible Russian tennis player using doping
Image

great American tennis player, has never used doping:
Image

As if to confuse them.


Our girls dont attend for a singing contest :-)
( GDR coach on why his swimmer girls were hairy, had a back like a bull and could have sung in a bass choire. :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:08 am

Kiwirob wrote:
How many Russian winter athletes have been pinged for doping, not many, certainly not as many as the summer athletes. I’m also waiting on the IOC and WADA to have a through investigation of Norway cross country programme, the dominance of Norway in this sport doesn’t sit right with me, considering there are other surrounding nations with similar winters and also passionate about the sport.


How many? Not that many which was the whole point of the systematic program to dope Russian Athletes. It only works if they aren't successfully found. You'd have thought the Russians would have learned their lesson from the Cold War when the Eastern Block regularly, and systematically, cheated. Unfortunately for them drug testing technology has moved on and you can't just drill holes through walls and swap samples without getting caught. This action from the IOC is long overdue and let it be a warning to all.

As for the Russians not broadcasting or participating in it, from the IOC's point of view the $$$'s Russia provides are insignificant anyway. So banning Russia for doping is good for the perception of the IOC as a body that won't tolerate this sort of thing anymore. If only FIFA had any semblance of integrity so they could do the same....
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10928
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:42 pm

Bostrom wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I live in Norway, have done for the last 11 years, I’ve always thought there was something not right about a tiny nation dominating cross country skiing, it doesn’t fit. A lot of Norwegians also have doubts about it as well. Joy gauge was found guilty of doping last season and banned from this games, all the Norwegian skiers as asthmatic and use drugs to control it, off don’t you think?


The Netherlands have dominated speed skating for decates and most come rom Friesland - pop. 500.000 - so what is your point, or are you sugesting that the Dutch speedskaters are on doping as well because it is your feeling that that is impossible?


If you live in Norway you must realize how popular cross country skiing is in the country, there are tracks everywhere and most children learn how to ski. So it's not strange that there are a lot of good Norwegian skiers. But they have to follow the rules as well, if you follow Norwegian media you must have learned about what has happened to Therese Johaug. There would probably be more Dutch skiers in the olympics if more Dutch children were exposed to cross country skiing. But skating seems to be more popular.

And a lot of success in one sport will make it more popular, in a sort of a positive feedback loop. Like the Dutch skaters probably.


It’s a popular sport amongst older people, at last the last few years snow days at my kids school hardly any kids turn up with skis, my wife has said when she was a kid everyone else skied to school everyday they could in during winter.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5309
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:23 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I live in Norway, have done for the last 11 years, I’ve always thought there was something not right about a tiny nation dominating cross country skiing, it doesn’t fit. A lot of Norwegians also have doubts about it as well. Joy gauge was found guilty of doping last season and banned from this games, all the Norwegian skiers as asthmatic and use drugs to control it, off don’t you think?


The logic in that statement is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. Maybe they do well because it's NORWAY! Using your logic maybe someone should look into Jamaica doing so well in track and field. I mean how could such a tiny country, smaller the Norway. accomplish such a feat? Maybe you should call Russia Today and have them look into it.

Kiwirob wrote:
My interest in Russia is due to my job and that I know dozens of Russians, they are good people who are unfairly treated by people like you, the media and the West in general. I bet you’ve never been to Russia.


Oh boo hoo. I feel for the Russian people but not for the made up reasons you give. In their recent history they had the opportunity to move away from thousands of years of czars and dictators. Unfortunately that didn't happen and what they have now is another president for for life and all his oligarch buddies.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 158
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I live in Norway, have done for the last 11 years, I’ve always thought there was something not right about a tiny nation dominating cross country skiing, it doesn’t fit. A lot of Norwegians also have doubts about it as well. Joy gauge was found guilty of doping last season and banned from this games, all the Norwegian skiers as asthmatic and use drugs to control it, off don’t you think?


The logic in that statement is so flawed I don't even know where to begin. Maybe they do well because it's NORWAY! Using your logic maybe someone should look into Jamaica doing so well in track and field. I mean how could such a tiny country, smaller the Norway. accomplish such a feat? Maybe you should call Russia Today and have them look into it.

Kiwirob wrote:
My interest in Russia is due to my job and that I know dozens of Russians, they are good people who are unfairly treated by people like you, the media and the West in general. I bet you’ve never been to Russia.


Oh boo hoo. I feel for the Russian people but not for the made up reasons you give. In their recent history they had the opportunity to move away from thousands of years of czars and dictators. Unfortunately that didn't happen and what they have now is another president for for life and all his oligarch buddies.

The British, Norwegians,Spaniards and Swedes still obey the monarchs. This is the question "Unfortunately that didn't happen."
But for some reason they love to teach Russian, which is already more than a hundred years don't obey anyone - freedom and democracy.
And Europeans love to talk about love Russian dictatorship, at that time, as throughout Europe are occupying US bases.
As soon as you remember a favorite "argument" of Western politicians about the "slave mentality of Russian"?
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3247
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:00 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I know I’d hate waking up as an Australian!


Well if you did at least people would know where you're from........And since 15% of the population of New Zealand lives in Australia, according to 2013 data, a significant number of your countrymen would disagree.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 4057
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Could you please show me were I unfairly treated Russians - note Russians, not Putin, not oligarchs, not the Kremlin but Russians -. And please show us where the media has treated Russians unfairly? And please show us were the west, in general, has treated Russians unfairly?


I don't need to, your post are inflamitory and anti Russia every chance you get.


Check, noted you don't want to answer.

Fine you claim to be from New Zealand and live in Norway. Fine. Don't get why you defend the Kremlin like that but it is a free country, so you may. And as for name calling: sign of frustration and violation of the forum rules so I leave that with you.[/quote]

And you claim to be Dutch. I don't defend the Kremlin or Putin, what I defend is Crimea, I know may Crimean’s, I've been there many times, Crimea is not like any other part of Ukraine, Crimea is very Russian, when you hear the stories from Russian Crimean’s you can understand why they want to be part of Russia. The story that I've heard many times is "I went to bed as a Soviet/Russia citizen and woke up the following day as a Ukrainian, I was never given the choice and when we did get to make the choice we voted overwhelmingly to leave, each and every time!" They got what they wanted, I think it’s time we put the argument to bed and left them alone. How would you feel if overnight you were woke up as Belgium citizen without being given the choice, that’s what happened to these people. I know I’d hate waking up as an Australian![/quote]

No, you consequently take the Russian side. In this thread a lot of whataboutism and distractions. This thread isn't about Crimea, so leave it in the thread where it belongs.

As for being Belgium the next morning: then "we" can go to the World Cup, go devils! (will be an honorary Belgium in the summer of 2018),
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 378
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:01 am

LMP737 wrote:
Oh boo hoo. I feel for the Russian people but not for the made up reasons you give. In their recent history they had the opportunity to move away from thousands of years of czars and dictators. Unfortunately that didn't happen and what they have now is another president for for life and all his oligarch buddies.

Except that Russians consider themselves fortunate to have such leader. So do many Germans BTW. In addition, they had a period when they didn't have any "czars" or "dictators" - infamous 1990s. They will never be forgotten by Russians, and they truly hope something like this will never return.
Last edited by anrec80 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
anrec80
Posts: 378
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:11 am

Dutchy wrote:
The Netherlands: dimismale 12th (Full democracy)
America: 21th (Flawed democracies)
Russia: 134th (Authoritarian regimes)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

So you live in an authoritarian regime according to this list. Don't attack the messenger, attack the methods used and come with an alternative of an - according to you - an unbiased list where Russia is much better positioned. Or continue to live in your dream world where Russia is number one, both are fine by me.

See a trend here? Where is Russia positioned in each and every list and where is western Europe? I wish the best for ordinary Russians and wish they could live in a free and fair society. Hopefully you will devotate as much energy towards that goal as you do to defend the indefencable like you are doing here.


Why can't you just let people live the way they want to live in their country, without labeling their state, its institutions, leadership (or, as you put it, "regime"). Ordinary Russians are perfectly happy with the political system of their country, and with their leadership. Speaking of "free and fair" - you may not see their society as such, but they are nonetheless happy with it the way it is. Why add these labels? And - they are also more than happy with degree of freedom they have.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 7051
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:28 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Netherlands: dimismale 12th (Full democracy)
America: 21th (Flawed democracies)
Russia: 134th (Authoritarian regimes)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

So you live in an authoritarian regime according to this list. Don't attack the messenger, attack the methods used and come with an alternative of an - according to you - an unbiased list where Russia is much better positioned. Or continue to live in your dream world where Russia is number one, both are fine by me.

See a trend here? Where is Russia positioned in each and every list and where is western Europe? I wish the best for ordinary Russians and wish they could live in a free and fair society. Hopefully you will devotate as much energy towards that goal as you do to defend the indefencable like you are doing here.


Why can't you just let people live the way they want to live in their country, without labeling their state, its institutions, leadership (or, as you put it, "regime"). Ordinary Russians are perfectly happy with the political system of their country, and with their leadership. Speaking of "free and fair" - you may not see their society as such, but they are nonetheless happy with it the way it is. Why add these labels? And - they are also more than happy with degree of freedom they have.

I swear, between you and Scorpius and Tu204 and others the level of laughable comments in these threads is quite enjoyable. The inability to.... oh never mind, just the mindset displayed is quite impressive and enjoyable. It would be concerning in some small way but that there is no effect, no ability to, makes it enjoyable rather than anything else.

I especially enjoy how you say "they", "them", "Russians" (and "ordinary Russians" is especially a hoot, they must be just like "True Scots" :rotfl: ) and don't identify personally with any of it. Just telling others how other people feel, how they absolutely honestly feel because you.... well its not you, but you are apparently sure of it for "them". Every single one of "them".

Ahh well, enjoy your holidays, your liberties, your sports (I'm sorry their sports and liberties... the holidays... those should be yours at least). Please keep posting for my enjoyment. I wish you well.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4057
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:14 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Netherlands: dimismale 12th (Full democracy)
America: 21th (Flawed democracies)
Russia: 134th (Authoritarian regimes)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

So you live in an authoritarian regime according to this list. Don't attack the messenger, attack the methods used and come with an alternative of an - according to you - an unbiased list where Russia is much better positioned. Or continue to live in your dream world where Russia is number one, both are fine by me.

See a trend here? Where is Russia positioned in each and every list and where is western Europe? I wish the best for ordinary Russians and wish they could live in a free and fair society. Hopefully you will devotate as much energy towards that goal as you do to defend the indefencable like you are doing here.


Why can't you just let people live the way they want to live in their country, without labeling their state, its institutions, leadership (or, as you put it, "regime"). Ordinary Russians are perfectly happy with the political system of their country, and with their leadership. Speaking of "free and fair" - you may not see their society as such, but they are nonetheless happy with it the way it is. Why add these labels? And - they are also more than happy with degree of freedom they have.


You claim all kind of things how ordinary Russian think and feel. Point being: how do you know, how does anyone know? How can we trust your word for it?

You have claimed all kind of things, but each and every time there is some international research which contradicts it. These labels are a result of research and offer a way to compare countries.

If you say ordinary Russians want to live their lives under an authoritarian regime with fewer rights, not under the rule of law, corruption, a high difference between the upper classes and ordinary citizens, no free press etc. etc. fine. But accept these things here and say Russians want to live like that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:06 am

Dutchy wrote:
If you say ordinary Russians want to live their lives under an authoritarian regime with fewer rights, not under the rule of law, corruption, a high difference between the upper classes and ordinary citizens, no free press etc. etc. fine. But accept these things here and say Russians want to live like that.


I am not saying anything about how ordinary Russians want to live their lives. What I am saying - they should decide for themselves how to live. Instead of recognizing this basic right of theirs, you continue to label their country and leadership elected by them, and teach that they have it wrong. This is what the whole West is doing for the past 3 decades - of course they will keep rejecting this.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:33 am

anrec80 wrote:
I am not saying anything about how ordinary Russians want to live their lives.


yes, you do, continuously.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LMP737
Posts: 5309
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:18 pm

Scorpius wrote:
The British, Norwegians,Spaniards and Swedes still obey the monarchs.


That's probably news to the British, Norwegians, Spaniards and Sweeds.

Scorpius wrote:
And Europeans love to talk about love Russian dictatorship, at that time, as throughout Europe are occupying US bases.


Oh they're occupying bases now? Were those bases ever used to put down popular uprisings like the Soviet bases were in 1956 and 1968? Reality is they were there to keep guys like Joe V. Stalin at bay. And lot of those "occupying" bases have been closed the past thirty years. Because that's what occupying countries do. LOL.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:38 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
The British, Norwegians,Spaniards and Swedes still obey the monarchs.


That's probably news to the British, Norwegians, Spaniards and Sweeds.

Scorpius wrote:
And Europeans love to talk about love Russian dictatorship, at that time, as throughout Europe are occupying US bases.


Oh they're occupying bases now? Were those bases ever used to put down popular uprisings like the Soviet bases were in 1956 and 1968? Reality is they were there to keep guys like Joe V. Stalin at bay. And lot of those "occupying" bases have been closed the past thirty years. Because that's what occupying countries do. LOL.



Oh, it is undoubtedly a huge achievement - the United States closed some occupation base in Europe. LOL. Freedom and independence is almost upon us. Well, at least you admitted what is needed in Europe to a NATO base to threaten Russia, not to protect.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4057
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:42 pm

Scorpius wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
The British, Norwegians,Spaniards and Swedes still obey the monarchs.


That's probably news to the British, Norwegians, Spaniards and Sweeds.

Scorpius wrote:
And Europeans love to talk about love Russian dictatorship, at that time, as throughout Europe are occupying US bases.


Oh they're occupying bases now? Were those bases ever used to put down popular uprisings like the Soviet bases were in 1956 and 1968? Reality is they were there to keep guys like Joe V. Stalin at bay. And lot of those "occupying" bases have been closed the past thirty years. Because that's what occupying countries do. LOL.



Oh, it is undoubtedly a huge achievement - the United States closed some occupation base in Europe. LOL. Freedom and independence is almost upon us. Well, at least you admitted what is needed in Europe to a NATO base to threaten Russia, not to protect.


Google has gone haywire again, don't understand what you are trying to say.

The US does a terrible job with his occupation of the EU, the EU members are quite critical of the US and there still isn't a trade agreement with the US because the EU wasn't going to bend over. Com'on why say these silly things?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Redd
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:03 pm

anrec80 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Oh boo hoo. I feel for the Russian people but not for the made up reasons you give. In their recent history they had the opportunity to move away from thousands of years of czars and dictators. Unfortunately that didn't happen and what they have now is another president for for life and all his oligarch buddies.

Except that Russians consider themselves fortunate to have such leader. So do many Germans BTW. In addition, they had a period when they didn't have any "czars" or "dictators" - infamous 1990s. They will never be forgotten by Russians, and they truly hope something like this will never return.



Every post Soviet member country had the same situation in the 90's and some well into the 2000's. Having another dictator isn't something which is necessary to equal prosperity.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6642
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:39 am

If somebody has forgotten, then this thread was about IOC rules and their enforcement:

- Individual athletes using illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Countries supporting systematic illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Individual athletes, who have proved clean, and who qualified, may participate, even when citizens of a banned country.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13008
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:56 am

prebennorholm wrote:
If somebody has forgotten, then this thread was about IOC rules and their enforcement:

- Individual athletes using illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Countries supporting systematic illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Individual athletes, who have proved clean, and who qualified, may participate, even when citizens of a banned country.


Thank you.
There is no doubt there are political issues with the ban of an official Russian team at the Winter Olympics in February but it had to be done. Yes, the IOC is a bunch of hacks, but they also know the value of their 'property' is deeply affected by a belief that many athletes are abusing drugs and other methods to cheat and win for their country and themselves. The documented extent of the cheating being done with official support by the political leaders of Russia was so blatant and far beyond sanity it had to be stopped or destroy the Olympics.
What is really important is the need to protect the athletes health from themselves or abuses by their coaches and political leaders. For far too many is is an ability to make big bucks or get preferred treatment from your government comes with winning a medal. It is not good to win a medal but the crap taken or told to take to get there causes unusual diseases, cancers, affects their sexual hormones, unable to father or birth children, ruins their general health, inflicts terrible pain, has psychological affects or makes them die far younger than normal. This is why Russia is being so severely punished - to protect the athletes and assure literally a fair playing field for participants.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:07 pm

ltbewr wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
If somebody has forgotten, then this thread was about IOC rules and their enforcement:

- Individual athletes using illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Countries supporting systematic illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Individual athletes, who have proved clean, and who qualified, may participate, even when citizens of a banned country.


Thank you.
There is no doubt there are political issues with the ban of an official Russian team at the Winter Olympics in February but it had to be done. Yes, the IOC is a bunch of hacks, but they also know the value of their 'property' is deeply affected by a belief that many athletes are abusing drugs and other methods to cheat and win for their country and themselves. The documented extent of the cheating being done with official support by the political leaders of Russia was so blatant and far beyond sanity it had to be stopped or destroy the Olympics.
What is really important is the need to protect the athletes health from themselves or abuses by their coaches and political leaders. For far too many is is an ability to make big bucks or get preferred treatment from your government comes with winning a medal. It is not good to win a medal but the crap taken or told to take to get there causes unusual diseases, cancers, affects their sexual hormones, unable to father or birth children, ruins their general health, inflicts terrible pain, has psychological affects or makes them die far younger than normal. This is why Russia is being so severely punished - to protect the athletes and assure literally a fair playing field for participants.


Then why not punish the United States or Norway? They have almost all athletes use doping. Only here it is for some reason called "doping allowed". The situation with the prohibition of participation of the Russian team - it's just clearing the field for the Americans. There is not no law, no justice. I, like many of my friends seem to think that the Olympic movement should be boycotted by Russia in the future - we have no confidence in the IOC or any other Olympic officials. For me personally, the Olympics has died - there is no struggle, there is no justice. And the West once again showed that never plays fair.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4057
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia banned from Winter Olympics 2018

Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Scorpius wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
If somebody has forgotten, then this thread was about IOC rules and their enforcement:

- Individual athletes using illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Countries supporting systematic illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Individual athletes, who have proved clean, and who qualified, may participate, even when citizens of a banned country.


Thank you.
There is no doubt there are political issues with the ban of an official Russian team at the Winter Olympics in February but it had to be done. Yes, the IOC is a bunch of hacks, but they also know the value of their 'property' is deeply affected by a belief that many athletes are abusing drugs and other methods to cheat and win for their country and themselves. The documented extent of the cheating being done with official support by the political leaders of Russia was so blatant and far beyond sanity it had to be stopped or destroy the Olympics.
What is really important is the need to protect the athletes health from themselves or abuses by their coaches and political leaders. For far too many is is an ability to make big bucks or get preferred treatment from your government comes with winning a medal. It is not good to win a medal but the crap taken or told to take to get there causes unusual diseases, cancers, affects their sexual hormones, unable to father or birth children, ruins their general health, inflicts terrible pain, has psychological affects or makes them die far younger than normal. This is why Russia is being so severely punished - to protect the athletes and assure literally a fair playing field for participants.


Then why not punish the United States or Norway? They have almost all athletes use doping. Only here it is for some reason called "doping allowed". The situation with the prohibition of participation of the Russian team - it's just clearing the field for the Americans. There is not no law, no justice. I, like many of my friends seem to think that the Olympic movement should be boycotted by Russia in the future - we have no confidence in the IOC or any other Olympic officials. For me personally, the Olympics has died - there is no struggle, there is no justice. And the West once again showed that never plays fair.


Boehoe everybody is against Russia, Calimero effect.

Simple law, simple punishment:
- Individual athletes using illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Countries supporting systematic illegal drugs are banned, when they get caught.
- Individual athletes, who have proved clean, and who qualified, may participate, even when citizens of a banned country.

Justice served. Russia has been caught and is wrong and you will never accept that.

Fine, don't watch the Olympics, fine, Russia never send any of your athletes to compete. I don't care. The rest of the world will continue to enjoy the Olympics and the Russia is welcome to come back if they have their affairs in order.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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