salttee
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Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:33 am

This documentary episode is dated Nov 1st, but I've been looking for its release for a month and I haven't seen it until today.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... e/#video-2

It tells the story of the Russian meddling in the 2016 election in detail.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:15 am

salttee wrote:
This documentary episode is dated Nov 1st, but I've been looking for its release for a month and I haven't seen it until today.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... e/#video-2

It tells the story of the Russian meddling in the 2016 election in detail.


All fake news of course, in the Alternate Universe of Fox News and the Republicans. Russia, a sworn enemy of the US for decades and and decades and now Trumps buddy. Trump is obviously a man who would sell us down the river to salve his ego and to boost his net worth. I consider the damage from Trumps actions, treasonous.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
WIederling
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:27 pm

salttee wrote:
This documentary episode is dated Nov 1st, but I've been looking for its release for a month and I haven't seen it until today.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... e/#video-2

It tells the story of the Russian meddling in the 2016 election in detail.


Didn't meet the deadline due to still lacking in inventing episodes?

Fake News.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:35 am

Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:21 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
salttee wrote:
This documentary episode is dated Nov 1st, but I've been looking for its release for a month and I haven't seen it until today.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... e/#video-2

It tells the story of the Russian meddling in the 2016 election in detail.


All fake news of course, in the Alternate Universe of Fox News and the Republicans. Russia, a sworn enemy of the US for decades and and decades and now Trumps buddy. Trump is obviously a man who would sell us down the river to salve his ego and to boost his net worth. I consider the damage from Trumps actions, treasonous.


What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:29 pm

tu204 wrote:
What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
PayaLebar
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:14 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I consider the damage from Trumps actions, treasonous.


I consider all US Presidents who are in bed with the Evil Kingdom (Swordy Arabia) as treasonous towards mankind. And I am not an American!
 
salttee
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:36 am

tu204 wrote:
the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

That is an out and out lie.
 
seb146
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:12 am

tu204 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
salttee wrote:
This documentary episode is dated Nov 1st, but I've been looking for its release for a month and I haven't seen it until today.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... e/#video-2

It tells the story of the Russian meddling in the 2016 election in detail.


All fake news of course, in the Alternate Universe of Fox News and the Republicans. Russia, a sworn enemy of the US for decades and and decades and now Trumps buddy. Trump is obviously a man who would sell us down the river to salve his ego and to boost his net worth. I consider the damage from Trumps actions, treasonous.


What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Prove it.

And, anyway, how does it make it right that Russia interfered in our elections?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:43 am

seb146 wrote:

Prove it.

And, anyway, how does it make it right that Russia interfered in our elections?


It doesn’t make it right but karma is a bitch, I think we are still waiting on cast iron proof that Russia did anything.

Its fun watching the US self destruct, it’s like Norwegian slow tv, it takes a while to get it but it all unfolds in front of you in real time.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:08 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Its fun watching the US self destruct, it’s like Norwegian slow tv.


Why is this fun for you?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:32 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.

You decide now is whether Russia is not interesting to anyone and is insignificant in political terms, whether Russia chooses who will be President in the United States.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:39 am

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.

You decide now is whether Russia is not interesting to anyone and is insignificant in political terms, whether Russia chooses who will be President in the United States.


Not going to pick a fight with you on Christmas, have a great Christmas and a wonderful 2018.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:14 am

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.

You decide now is whether Russia is not interesting to anyone and is insignificant in political terms, whether Russia chooses who will be President in the United States.


Not going to pick a fight with you on Christmas, have a great Christmas and a wonderful 2018.


Merry Christmas!
I wish you in the new year all the best!
 
WIederling
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:35 am

salttee wrote:
tu204 wrote:
the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

That is an out and out lie.


There is really enough proof around.
Even lots of self implicating stuff like released US government docs.

Nothing to be said about having some misguided opinions, but ..
Murphy is an optimist
 
mmo
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:51 am

WIederling wrote:
salttee wrote:
tu204 wrote:
the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

That is an out and out lie.


There is really enough proof around.
Even lots of self implicating stuff like released US government docs.

Nothing to be said about having some misguided opinions, but ..


Go ahead, I'm listening.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:12 pm

WIederling wrote:
salttee wrote:
tu204 wrote:
the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

That is an out and out lie.


There is really enough proof around.
Even lots of self implicating stuff like released US government docs.

Nothing to be said about having some misguided opinions, but ..


I habe the feeling for that you have to go back to the Church committee and such distant past, or support for right wing terrorists playing left wing terrorists in Europe, also long time ago.

Best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe place.
 
salttee
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:36 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
I have the feeling for that you have to go back to the Church committee and such distant past, or support for right wing terrorists playing left wing terrorists in Europe, also long time ago.
Even going back to the cold war era won't come close to supporting TU's nonsensical premise.
In the cold war era the US (the west) advocated diplomatically in probably half the governments in the world, but did not directly interfere in elections anywhere that I can think of; "pretty much every country in the world" is pure hyperbole.
 
WIederling
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:54 pm

salttee wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
I have the feeling for that you have to go back to the Church committee and such distant past, or support for right wing terrorists playing left wing terrorists in Europe, also long time ago.
Even going back to the cold war era won't come close to supporting TU's nonsensical premise.
In the cold war era the US (the west) advocated diplomatically in probably half the governments in the world, but did not directly interfere in elections anywhere that I can think of; "pretty much every country in the world" is pure hyperbole.


good start, have some reading fun:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_e ... tervention

only well known cases.
Murphy is an optimist
 
salttee
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:16 pm

WIederling your link is to "Foreign intervention", not "US intervention".

You should also read the text in the article. Chile in 1970 is not "pretty much every country in the world" and Chile in 1970 is the only case that stands out for the US having a direct part in an election. Diplomatic efforts and funneling money are done by everyone, even corporations and private parties, so the other eight or so cases where the US is named don't support TU's premise anyway.
 
seb146
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:55 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Prove it.

And, anyway, how does it make it right that Russia interfered in our elections?


It doesn’t make it right but karma is a bitch, I think we are still waiting on cast iron proof that Russia did anything.

Its fun watching the US self destruct, it’s like Norwegian slow tv, it takes a while to get it but it all unfolds in front of you in real time.


Social media sites have already admitted they ran fake Russian backed stories.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-russia- ... nline-ads/

And there is still zero proof that the United States did the exact same thing with all the other countries. We have backed deadly leaders and groups through military and financial backing like Qadaffi and Hussein and Noriega and Taliban. But, election hacking? Where is the proof?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
tu204
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:20 pm

Sorry, I was quick in writting that post and made a mistake.

I meant to say that what's the big deal with Russia interfering in the electoral process (an internal affair), when the US has interfered in the internal affairs of pretty much half the world.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Tugger
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:38 pm

tu204 wrote:
Sorry, I was quick in writting that post and made a mistake.

I meant to say that what's the big deal with Russia interfering in the electoral process (an internal affair), when the US has interfered in the internal affairs of pretty much half the world.

Shouldn't you also highlight that you are also correcting that you were wrong to state "pretty much every country", now bringing it down to "pretty much half". Also a dubious, not true claim but at least you are trying.

I would think one could state that the USA "interfered" about the same as Russia did in its previous form as the organizing and controlling director-state of the USSR (yes, of course, not the same entity... ). The battle for influence was truly global.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:53 pm

seb146 wrote:

Social media sites have already admitted they ran fake Russian backed stories.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-russia- ... nline-ads/

And there is still zero proof that the United States did the exact same thing with all the other countries. We have backed deadly leaders and groups through military and financial backing like Qadaffi and Hussein and Noriega and Taliban. But, election hacking? Where is the proof?


What world are you living in?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... -elections

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/th ... 5d5ed382bd

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-interf ... 45/5601481
 
seb146
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:34 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Social media sites have already admitted they ran fake Russian backed stories.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-russia- ... nline-ads/

And there is still zero proof that the United States did the exact same thing with all the other countries. We have backed deadly leaders and groups through military and financial backing like Qadaffi and Hussein and Noriega and Taliban. But, election hacking? Where is the proof?


What world are you living in?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... -elections

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/th ... 5d5ed382bd

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-interf ... 45/5601481


Thank you for doing research for someone else. At least you posted links. Finally.

I find it interetsting that the first link has an interview with someone from factcheck.org. You righties get your knickers in a twist whenever someone posts from factcheck.org against the tRumpster. Just sayin'
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:47 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Social media sites have already admitted they ran fake Russian backed stories.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-russia- ... nline-ads/

And there is still zero proof that the United States did the exact same thing with all the other countries. We have backed deadly leaders and groups through military and financial backing like Qadaffi and Hussein and Noriega and Taliban. But, election hacking? Where is the proof?


What world are you living in?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... -elections

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/th ... 5d5ed382bd

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-interf ... 45/5601481


https://www.globalresearch.ca is a well known pro-Russian or propaganda site. Not objective at all, it says a lot that you come up with this site.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:55 am

seb146 wrote:

Thank you for doing research for someone else. At least you posted links. Finally.

I find it interetsting that the first link has an interview with someone from factcheck.org. You righties get your knickers in a twist whenever someone posts from factcheck.org against the tRumpster. Just sayin'


Wow I’m a righty? Never thought I would be called right wing by an American, in Norway I am but I think that makes me a solid left (except I’m anti immigration and pro capitol punishment) by US standards, being a fan of govt funded health, education, social welfare and gun control.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:58 am

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Social media sites have already admitted they ran fake Russian backed stories.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-russia- ... nline-ads/

And there is still zero proof that the United States did the exact same thing with all the other countries. We have backed deadly leaders and groups through military and financial backing like Qadaffi and Hussein and Noriega and Taliban. But, election hacking? Where is the proof?


What world are you living in?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... -elections

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/th ... 5d5ed382bd

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-interf ... 45/5601481


https://www.globalresearch.ca is a well known pro-Russian or propaganda site. Not objective at all, it says a lot that you come up with this site.


I googled US intervention in foreign election, I picked the first three sites, there were dozens more, you could do the same, what they all say regardless of there political affiliations is the US has been neck deep in election manipulation for decades, as they say karma will bite you one the arse one day.
 
seb146
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:14 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:


https://www.globalresearch.ca is a well known pro-Russian or propaganda site. Not objective at all, it says a lot that you come up with this site.


I googled US intervention in foreign election, I picked the first three sites, there were dozens more, you could do the same, what they all say regardless of there political affiliations is the US has been neck deep in election manipulation for decades, as they say karma will bite you one the arse one day.


So you admit that all you righties crying about Russia not having anything to do with election manipulation is bollux. You admit that it is okay and probably just for Russia to have interfered with our elections as they did. So you admit that they did. So stop complaining that American FBI and CIA are investigating and trying to figure out how and why Russia did since you admit they did. Yes, it was bad what America did to other countries. Everyone knows that. You righties saying that "tRump is great" is not helping. We all know this is bad. This does not "make America great again" by admitting Russia hacked American elections. Having Russia rule us? How? How is that good?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
seb146
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:21 am

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Thank you for doing research for someone else. At least you posted links. Finally.

I find it interetsting that the first link has an interview with someone from factcheck.org. You righties get your knickers in a twist whenever someone posts from factcheck.org against the tRumpster. Just sayin'


Wow I’m a righty? Never thought I would be called right wing by an American, in Norway I am but I think that makes me a solid left (except I’m anti immigration and pro capitol punishment) by US standards, being a fan of govt funded health, education, social welfare and gun control.


The constant cheering for "Republicans" and tRump makes you a rightie. Being against LGBTQ and minority and female equality makes you a rightie. Demanding tax breaks and cash for the rich because it will "trickle down" makes you a rightie. You hate the middle class and workers. You only love the rich. You are not one but you buy into the notion that the rich will give you everything. Like housing and health care and food and cars and money. You honestly believe that because you are a rightie. Party before country. Blonde hair, blue eye, English speaking Jesus before country and Constitution. A rightie. You hate America if it involves Natives and women and Blacks and LGBTQ and Muslims. America, according to you righties, belongs ONLY to white, English only, Christian men and women who support that idea. No one but no one else.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:24 am

tu204 wrote:
Sorry, I was quick in writting that post and made a mistake.

I meant to say that what's the big deal with Russia interfering in the electoral process (an internal affair), when the US has interfered in the internal affairs of pretty much half the world.


Ok we are down from most of the world to pretty much half the world, could you please provide a reliable source where the US has interfered in pretty much half the world, there are 192 countries, so that means 96 countries.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:27 am

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.

You decide now is whether Russia is not interesting to anyone and is insignificant in political terms, whether Russia chooses who will be President in the United States.


That is making it personal, no I don't decide, just reality, have an objectively look at what Russia can do in the world.

And again, you don't say anything about what you quote.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:48 am

seb146 wrote:
The constant cheering for "Republicans" and tRump makes you a rightie. Being against LGBTQ and minority and female equality makes you a rightie. Demanding tax breaks and cash for the rich because it will "trickle down" makes you a rightie. You hate the middle class and workers. You only love the rich. You are not one but you buy into the notion that the rich will give you everything. Like housing and health care and food and cars and money. You honestly believe that because you are a rightie. Party before country. Blonde hair, blue eye, English speaking Jesus before country and Constitution. A rightie. You hate America if it involves Natives and women and Blacks and LGBTQ and Muslims. America, according to you righties, belongs ONLY to white, English only, Christian men and women who support that idea. No one but no one else.


You will never find a post from me cheering for republicans or Trump. You’ll never find a post from me demanding tax breaks for the rich. You’ll also find I support native rights above most others, native Americans and Polynesians have been well and truely fucked over by US govts since day one.

I am so far from being religious anyone who actually me would be laughing there arses off. It’s hard to hate the middle class when I’m firmly in it, imo the middle class are the backbone of any society, destroying it like what’s happening in the US is a big mistake which will have repercussions for generations.

You don’t have a clue about me, whereas you are a poor, unhappy, gay, black man with a massive chip on his shoulder, you’re responsible for your own life choices but clearly haven’t made good ones, from reading your posts over many years your life has been one failure after the next.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:56 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

https://www.globalresearch.ca is a well known pro-Russian or propaganda site. Not objective at all, it says a lot that you come up with this site.


I googled US intervention in foreign election, I picked the first three sites, there were dozens more, you could do the same, what they all say regardless of there political affiliations is the US has been neck deep in election manipulation for decades, as they say karma will bite you one the arse one day.


So you admit that all you righties crying about Russia not having anything to do with election manipulation is bollux. You admit that it is okay and probably just for Russia to have interfered with our elections as they did. So you admit that they did. So stop complaining that American FBI and CIA are investigating and trying to figure out how and why Russia did since you admit they did. Yes, it was bad what America did to other countries. Everyone knows that. You righties saying that "tRump is great" is not helping. We all know this is bad. This does not "make America great again" by admitting Russia hacked American elections. Having Russia rule us? How? How is that good?


Point out a post where I have complained about the fbi and cia investigating election interference. Of course the Russians may have interfered, but you forget I’m not American your problems are your problems, so long as they don’t interfere in my life I’m happy sitting on the fence throwing stones every now and again.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:18 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Point out a post where I have complained about the fbi and cia investigating election interference. Of course the Russians may have interfered, but you forget I’m not American your problems are your problems, so long as they don’t interfere in my life I’m happy sitting on the fence throwing stones every now and again.


You don't care what happens as long as it doesn't affect you? Why do you defend Russia on this forum?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:26 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Point out a post where I have complained about the fbi and cia investigating election interference. Of course the Russians may have interfered, but you forget I’m not American your problems are your problems, so long as they don’t interfere in my life I’m happy sitting on the fence throwing stones every now and again.


You don't care what happens as long as it doesn't affect you? Why do you defend Russia on this forum?


Because Russia hasn’t done anything that affects me, you and just about anyone else I know. And people like you have an axe to grind for what reason I don’t know, sometimes it’s worth defending them against folks like you and seb, besides I know a lot of Russians and I like almost all of them.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:58 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Point out a post where I have complained about the fbi and cia investigating election interference. Of course the Russians may have interfered, but you forget I’m not American your problems are your problems, so long as they don’t interfere in my life I’m happy sitting on the fence throwing stones every now and again.


You don't care what happens as long as it doesn't affect you? Why do you defend Russia on this forum?


Because Russia hasn’t done anything that affects me, you and just about anyone else I know. And people like you have an axe to grind for what reason I don’t know, sometimes it’s worth defending them against folks like you and seb, besides I know a lot of Russians and I like almost all of them.


Don't have an axe to grind. But I like the world to be at peace and Putin's Russia is disturbing that in a big way. As for Russians, I generally like people, so I generally like Russians, from a person to person perspective, what Putin is doing is another matter, I clearly distinguish between the two.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 5012
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Don't have an axe to grind. But I like the world to be at peace and Putin's Russia is disturbing that in a big way.


Sure. War is Peace.

signed 1984, greetings of the season.
Murphy is an optimist
 
seb146
Posts: 15773
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:53 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The constant cheering for "Republicans" and tRump makes you a rightie. Being against LGBTQ and minority and female equality makes you a rightie. Demanding tax breaks and cash for the rich because it will "trickle down" makes you a rightie. You hate the middle class and workers. You only love the rich. You are not one but you buy into the notion that the rich will give you everything. Like housing and health care and food and cars and money. You honestly believe that because you are a rightie. Party before country. Blonde hair, blue eye, English speaking Jesus before country and Constitution. A rightie. You hate America if it involves Natives and women and Blacks and LGBTQ and Muslims. America, according to you righties, belongs ONLY to white, English only, Christian men and women who support that idea. No one but no one else.


You will never find a post from me cheering for republicans or Trump. You’ll never find a post from me demanding tax breaks for the rich. You’ll also find I support native rights above most others, native Americans and Polynesians have been well and truely fucked over by US govts since day one.

I am so far from being religious anyone who actually me would be laughing there arses off. It’s hard to hate the middle class when I’m firmly in it, imo the middle class are the backbone of any society, destroying it like what’s happening in the US is a big mistake which will have repercussions for generations.

You don’t have a clue about me, whereas you are a poor, unhappy, gay, black man with a massive chip on his shoulder, you’re responsible for your own life choices but clearly haven’t made good ones, from reading your posts over many years your life has been one failure after the next.


wow.

You know nothing about me.

First off, I am a middle aged white Christian man.
Second, you have supported and defended the Republican party and tRump every chance you get. Party before country.
Third, yes, the middle class is the backbone of this great nation. Why you have supported and defended tax hikes for us is beyond me.
Lastly, the United States is your ally. That Russia can hack our elections says they can hack anyone's elections. Even yours. If you love your country, you should be demanding investigations of Russian interference. I have provided links to reports that social media, bolstered by Fox "news" has helped Russia. This should outrage every one of us. But it does not.

I have read your posts over the years. You clearly have no clue what goes on day to day in the United States or in your own country. You just push buttons because party before country. That is the sad failure. People like you actually think you matter to your own party.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:48 pm

WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Don't have an axe to grind. But I like the world to be at peace and Putin's Russia is disturbing that in a big way.


Sure. War is Peace.

signed 1984, greetings of the season.


Again selective quoting and framing, troll behavior.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Route66
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 pm

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:25 pm

It would be disingenuous to claim the US has not attempted to influence the internal affairs of other countries, and will continue to do so - including their political processes. What would you call Syria, if not an attempt to overthrow the government? What was Libya? Iraq? This makes this Russian thing seem a bit overblown and this thread highly amusing.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10976
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:00 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The constant cheering for "Republicans" and tRump makes you a rightie. Being against LGBTQ and minority and female equality makes you a rightie. Demanding tax breaks and cash for the rich because it will "trickle down" makes you a rightie. You hate the middle class and workers. You only love the rich. You are not one but you buy into the notion that the rich will give you everything. Like housing and health care and food and cars and money. You honestly believe that because you are a rightie. Party before country. Blonde hair, blue eye, English speaking Jesus before country and Constitution. A rightie. You hate America if it involves Natives and women and Blacks and LGBTQ and Muslims. America, according to you righties, belongs ONLY to white, English only, Christian men and women who support that idea. No one but no one else.


You will never find a post from me cheering for republicans or Trump. You’ll never find a post from me demanding tax breaks for the rich. You’ll also find I support native rights above most others, native Americans and Polynesians have been well and truely fucked over by US govts since day one.

I am so far from being religious anyone who actually me would be laughing there arses off. It’s hard to hate the middle class when I’m firmly in it, imo the middle class are the backbone of any society, destroying it like what’s happening in the US is a big mistake which will have repercussions for generations.

You don’t have a clue about me, whereas you are a poor, unhappy, gay, black man with a massive chip on his shoulder, you’re responsible for your own life choices but clearly haven’t made good ones, from reading your posts over many years your life has been one failure after the next.


wow.

You know nothing about me.

First off, I am a middle aged white Christian man.
Second, you have supported and defended the Republican party and tRump every chance you get. Party before country.
Third, yes, the middle class is the backbone of this great nation. Why you have supported and defended tax hikes for us is beyond me.
Lastly, the United States is your ally. That Russia can hack our elections says they can hack anyone's elections. Even yours. If you love your country, you should be demanding investigations of Russian interference. I have provided links to reports that social media, bolstered by Fox "news" has helped Russia. This should outrage every one of us. But it does not.

I have read your posts over the years. You clearly have no clue what goes on day to day in the United States or in your own country. You just push buttons because party before country. That is the sad failure. People like you actually think you matter to your own party.


I see you can’t find a post or series of posts where I have supported Trump, Republicans, Christians, or quoted Fox News. I despise Christians btw.

I’d be far more concerned with the US interfering in my home country or in Norway, and we already know the US played dirty with Norway over the F-35 purchase.

America can’t be trusted, especially with the numpty in charge today, which also means imo Americans can’t be trusted if they make this kind of choice as there leader.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.

You decide now is whether Russia is not interesting to anyone and is insignificant in political terms, whether Russia chooses who will be President in the United States.


That is making it personal, no I don't decide, just reality, have an objectively look at what Russia can do in the world.

And again, you don't say anything about what you quote.


The reality is that Russia is one of the leading countries in the world, no matter how hard Western propaganda to imagine it otherwise.
There are very many things and processes in the world that will crumble, if we eliminate Russian participation.
60% of the titanium for Boeing and Airbus range comes from Russia. Some cargoes can move only Russian An-124.
Only Russian icebreaker fleet can operate effectively in the Arctic ocean.
Without Russia it would be impossible to the construction and operation of the ISS, and since 2011 in Russia, no one can deliver astronauts into space.
Almost half of smartphones produced in the world have components from synthetic sapphire, produced in Russia.
And how much electricity is produced constructed by Russian nuclear power plant?
The second place on arms export, the first place in the export of wheat, and what will happen if Europe will disappear in the Russian oil and gas?
And this list goes on and on - on the Russian economy, the power and influence firmly tied too a lot of connections around the world.

And the funny thing about this is that instead of having to use these unique advantages of Russia to stabilize the situation in the world, Western politicians are struggling to prevent the strengthening of Russian influence and circulation of the geopolitical structure of the world to a multipolar scheme.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:04 pm

Sure Russia is rich in natural materials. And has indeed some useful contributions to the world. Nevertheless, the main export product is oil. And the world needs to get rid of burning fossil fuels (and nuclear power plants). And arms export, not something to be proud of.

What will happen to Russia if they can't sell oil and gas anymore? And isn't Russia as depended on European money in exchange for the oil and gas? That argument goes two ways, my Russian friend.

ISS, Russia has delivered some useful components indeed, but so do all the other nations participating in this, so not unique for Russia.

But calling it a leading nation is a bit of a stretch. Many nations produce something more or less unique. Russia isn't that special what you seem to think.

Russia is a nation which depends on as much, if not more, to the rest of the world, so come and join us instead of being a pariah.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
salttee
Topic Author
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:37 am

Scorpius wrote:
The reality is that Russia is one of the leading countries in the world, no matter how hard Western propaganda to imagine it otherwise.
Another reality is that in the west, for the most part, nobody gives a shit about Russia one way or another. If you want to see yourselves as a "leading nation", fine - go for it, but why raise the subject with us?
Scorpius wrote:
There are very many things and processes in the world that will crumble, if we eliminate Russian participation.
Nobody expects to see you crumble, but if you do, we will get by somehow.
Scorpius wrote:
60% of the titanium for Boeing and Airbus range comes from Russia. Some cargoes can move only Russian An-124.
Only Russian icebreaker fleet can operate effectively in the Arctic ocean.
Without Russia it would be impossible to the construction and operation of the ISS, and since 2011 in Russia, no one can deliver astronauts into space.
Almost half of smartphones produced in the world have components from synthetic sapphire, produced in Russia.
And how much electricity is produced constructed by Russian nuclear power plant?
The second place on arms export, the first place in the export of wheat, and what will happen if Europe will disappear in the Russian oil and gas?
And this list goes on and on - on the Russian economy, the power and influence firmly tied too a lot of connections around the world.
Here, so that you don't have to google it, I'll give you a link:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penis%20envy
I give you that link because that's how that particular Russian fixation comes across to everyone else and you should be aware of that fact.


Scorpius wrote:
And the funny thing about this is that instead of having to use these unique advantages of Russia to stabilize the situation in the world, Western politicians are struggling to prevent the strengthening of Russian influence and circulation of the geopolitical structure of the world to a multipolar scheme.
The problem is that "strengthening of Russian influence" has come down to rattling sabers and invading other countries.

Not good.
 
User avatar
BawliBooch
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:27 am

seb146 wrote:
And there is still zero proof that the United States did the exact same thing with all the other countries. We have backed deadly leaders and groups through military and financial backing like Qadaffi and Hussein and Noriega and Taliban. But, election hacking? Where is the proof?


Hmm. isnt backing military coups to bring about regime change in countries also interference? And both America & Soviet Union have made/unmade political leaders in other countries. Our neighbor Pakistan for example: its amazing how often West Point/Leavenworth educated officers from the Pakistan Army not only succeeded in overthrowing democratically elected leaders deemed too inconvenient to the US, but consolidating their power post the coup. Iskander Mirza talking too much socialism? Get Ayub Khan to stage a coup (1958). Bhutto getting too cosy with the Soviets and building a nuclear bomb? Get US trained boy Zia to overthrow and execute him(1977). The world is still paying for Zia's elevation as Pakistan President because it was in his regime that terrorism became an instrument of state policy. Nawaz Sharif acting too big for his boots? Get our boy Musharraf to bring him down! Pakistan is but one example. There are a dozen others - Saddam was an American buddy for 3 decades till he moved against Kuwait. Gadaffi was an American friend until he decided to trade in Gold/Euro's instead of dollars. And who bought Gen.Batista to power again?

Hacking elections is a relatively modern technique and a sophisticated one. Must hand it to the Russians to pulling off this one.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
anrec80
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:00 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.


Well, can’t really show exactly 70%, but there certainly are bright examples. Beginning with Russia in 2011 (Mar 2012 election), where Joe Biden said to Putin that he shouldn’t run, Hillary Clinton met all the Russian opposition. Putin ran, won and started to order up legislature (similar to FARA). Screams “Assad must go” (even though it’s not their business), Ghaddafi with “loss of legitimacy”. Last but not least Ukraine in Feb 2014, with Biden’s call to Yanukovich “it’s over”. These are only the examples we know of. There are more I am sure.
 
anrec80
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:07 am

Dutchy wrote:
What will happen to Russia if they can't sell oil and gas anymore? And isn't Russia as depended on European money in exchange for the oil and gas? That argument goes two ways, my Russian friend.


What will happen to Russia? Nothing will happen to Russia, and the way their economy handled oil price drop is reassuring. They used to spend oil money as well to buy agricultural products from EU, and now, thanks to rubble drop and sanctions, kicked you out of their internal market, and also became major exporter of food, depriving EU and USA of the market share. You can try to do even more sanctions, but then don’t get surprised if Airbus and Siemens lose half of their market share.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:17 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
What will happen to Russia if they can't sell oil and gas anymore? And isn't Russia as depended on European money in exchange for the oil and gas? That argument goes two ways, my Russian friend.


What will happen to Russia? Nothing will happen to Russia, and the way their economy handled oil price drop is reassuring. They used to spend oil money as well to buy agricultural products from EU, and now, thanks to rubble drop and sanctions, kicked you out of their internal market, and also became major exporter of food, depriving EU and USA of the market share. You can try to do even more sanctions, but then don’t get surprised if Airbus and Siemens lose half of their market share.


Sanctions were imposed by Putin, not the EU, Russia isn't that important economy. So where do you gt that Airbus and Siemens will lose half their market share, half of what? Half of the market in Russia, well small market anyway. And what will Russia's airlines get if they don't get an Airbus? A Boeing? But how do you rhyme that with your statement?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4369
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Putin's revenge part II

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:22 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
What is so bad about Russia interfering in the US elections? Afterall, the United States has interfered in the electoral process of pretty much every country in the world.

Justice is a bitch, ain't it?


Please show us how they interfered in let's say 70% of the countries in the world, otherwise, you are lying yet again for your country.

And more important: two wrongs don't make it right, something you should have learned in kindergarten. And this was absolutely the next level.


Well, can’t really show exactly 70%, but there certainly are bright examples. Beginning with Russia in 2011 (Mar 2012 election), where Joe Biden said to Putin that he shouldn’t run, Hillary Clinton met all the Russian opposition. Putin ran, won and started to order up legislature (similar to FARA). Screams “Assad must go” (even though it’s not their business), Ghaddafi with “loss of legitimacy”. Last but not least Ukraine in Feb 2014, with Biden’s call to Yanukovich “it’s over”. These are only the examples we know of. There are more I am sure.


So meddling is making a statement? Wow, so you suggest Russians are influenced en mass by a statement by then vice-President of the US. That is just funny. Come on you can do better than that. So 4 countries or about 2% of the world countries (a bit of the 70% or the vast majority don't you think) and even very bad examples indeed.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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