User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5529
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:10 am

As of December 21, 2017, the Federal Highway Administration has officially rescinded its interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs):
https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/mutcd_news.htm

Apparently, the reason for rescinding the interim approval was due to the device being patented, and the MUTCD does not allow the inclusion of patented traffic control devices.

For those who were wondering what I am talking about:
Image

These will no longer be allowed for new installations in the United States. Considering these have become so commonplace, I wonder what alternatives will cities use? I know one MUTCD-approved alternative is to put flashing LEDs in the border of the sign, but they don't flash as rapidly as RRFBs. In-Road Warning Lights are another alternative.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 11910
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:52 am

I have never seen one, and by what we have here, they are sorely needed for Pedestrians at crosswalks. Every community has something different it seems.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2291
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:21 am

I've used these multiple times in the Twin Cities with mixed results. On one hand they flash rapidly and most motorists see them and yield to me, on the other hand there are also motorists who are either not paying attention or don't want to add 5 seconds to their trip yielding to me.

The problem with these is that on busy roads there isn't a guarantee everyone will stop, and if traffic is going 35+ miles per hour it's hard to judge if drivers are slowing down or not. That was the case for me on a 4-lane road where traffic is going 40 miles per hour. The lights began flashing and everyone was slowing down so I began to go, but I could see a pickup truck that didn't look like it was slowing down. Sure enough he had to slam on the brakes and I gave him hell for it.

As much as motorists, especially American motorists, want to cut as much travel time as possible, I think it's best that regular traffic lights are installed at crosswalks. That way pedestrians know how much time they have to cross and the light is red which has better success at stopping motorists than yellow or flashing yellow. That or grade-separate the crosswalks, but of course that costs more money. For these upgrades I'm thinking of roads where the speed limit is at least 30 miles per hour and its at least a 3-lane (2 travel lanes, 1 turn lane) or 4-lane road.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5529
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:16 am

af773atmsp wrote:
As much as motorists, especially American motorists, want to cut as much travel time as possible, I think it's best that regular traffic lights are installed at crosswalks. That way pedestrians know how much time they have to cross and the light is red which has better success at stopping motorists than yellow or flashing yellow. That or grade-separate the crosswalks, but of course that costs more money. For these upgrades I'm thinking of roads where the speed limit is at least 30 miles per hour and its at least a 3-lane (2 travel lanes, 1 turn lane) or 4-lane road.


One alternative to regular traffic lights for pedestrians are HAWK beacons, which have two red lights on top and a yellow light on the bottom. In the normal state when the pedestrian signal is in the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon is dark. When a pedestrian activates the HAWK beacon by pressing the walk button, the HAWK beacon goes into a flashing yellow phase. After the solid yellow phase, when the pedestrian signal goes into the Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes into a double solid red phase, where all vehicular traffic must stop. When the pedestrian signal goes into the Flashing Don't Walk phase, the double red lights on the HAWK beacon starts to flash alternatingly, where vehicular traffic must stop and then proceed if clear. Once the pedestrian signal again goes into the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes dark again.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
seb146
Posts: 18035
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:38 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
As much as motorists, especially American motorists, want to cut as much travel time as possible, I think it's best that regular traffic lights are installed at crosswalks. That way pedestrians know how much time they have to cross and the light is red which has better success at stopping motorists than yellow or flashing yellow. That or grade-separate the crosswalks, but of course that costs more money. For these upgrades I'm thinking of roads where the speed limit is at least 30 miles per hour and its at least a 3-lane (2 travel lanes, 1 turn lane) or 4-lane road.


One alternative to regular traffic lights for pedestrians are HAWK beacons, which have two red lights on top and a yellow light on the bottom. In the normal state when the pedestrian signal is in the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon is dark. When a pedestrian activates the HAWK beacon by pressing the walk button, the HAWK beacon goes into a flashing yellow phase. After the solid yellow phase, when the pedestrian signal goes into the Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes into a double solid red phase, where all vehicular traffic must stop. When the pedestrian signal goes into the Flashing Don't Walk phase, the double red lights on the HAWK beacon starts to flash alternatingly, where vehicular traffic must stop and then proceed if clear. Once the pedestrian signal again goes into the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes dark again.


They have HAWK beacons in Crescent City CA. They took me by surprise the first time I saw them. The RRFBs did too. Getting rid of all of these safety measures is just another downsizing of big government. And if people get killed, oh, well. They should have looked where they were going, right? I am sorry but you can not call yourself the part of the people and the party of life then try to stop life and people at every turn.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2291
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:00 am

seb146 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
As much as motorists, especially American motorists, want to cut as much travel time as possible, I think it's best that regular traffic lights are installed at crosswalks. That way pedestrians know how much time they have to cross and the light is red which has better success at stopping motorists than yellow or flashing yellow. That or grade-separate the crosswalks, but of course that costs more money. For these upgrades I'm thinking of roads where the speed limit is at least 30 miles per hour and its at least a 3-lane (2 travel lanes, 1 turn lane) or 4-lane road.


One alternative to regular traffic lights for pedestrians are HAWK beacons, which have two red lights on top and a yellow light on the bottom. In the normal state when the pedestrian signal is in the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon is dark. When a pedestrian activates the HAWK beacon by pressing the walk button, the HAWK beacon goes into a flashing yellow phase. After the solid yellow phase, when the pedestrian signal goes into the Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes into a double solid red phase, where all vehicular traffic must stop. When the pedestrian signal goes into the Flashing Don't Walk phase, the double red lights on the HAWK beacon starts to flash alternatingly, where vehicular traffic must stop and then proceed if clear. Once the pedestrian signal again goes into the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes dark again.


They have HAWK beacons in Crescent City CA. They took me by surprise the first time I saw them. The RRFBs did too. Getting rid of all of these safety measures is just another downsizing of big government. And if people get killed, oh, well. They should have looked where they were going, right? I am sorry but you can not call yourself the part of the people and the party of life then try to stop life and people at every turn.


Okay seb, let's see if you can make it across a road without any signage or signals, traffic going 40 miles per hour, and a 4-lane road. If you get killed, as you said, oh well!

Just a month ago an older woman was killed in my part of town trying to cross a busy road with only a yellow crosswalk sign to warn drivers. Nobody, and I mean nobody, pays attention to a simple crosswalk sign on that road, and even if one motorist stops you still need the other three lanes to stop. But to you seb it's "oh well!", shit happens! Put yourself in her shoes.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8999
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:08 am

THAT can be patented?

Gee, I know where the real scandal is...

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15970
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:37 am

Are they available in pink?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:42 pm

scbriml wrote:
Are they available in pink?


yellow only ( you could ask for red?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pb5a31Ymeo
:-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
johns624
Posts: 1810
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:14 pm

Real 'Muricans don't (can't) walk anywhere. They have cars...
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5529
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:16 pm

scbriml wrote:
Are they available in pink?


For the lights, they are only available in amber. However, for the sign it is available either in yellow, fluorescent yellow, or fluorescent yellow-green.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
seb146
Posts: 18035
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:58 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
seb146 wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:

One alternative to regular traffic lights for pedestrians are HAWK beacons, which have two red lights on top and a yellow light on the bottom. In the normal state when the pedestrian signal is in the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon is dark. When a pedestrian activates the HAWK beacon by pressing the walk button, the HAWK beacon goes into a flashing yellow phase. After the solid yellow phase, when the pedestrian signal goes into the Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes into a double solid red phase, where all vehicular traffic must stop. When the pedestrian signal goes into the Flashing Don't Walk phase, the double red lights on the HAWK beacon starts to flash alternatingly, where vehicular traffic must stop and then proceed if clear. Once the pedestrian signal again goes into the solid Don't Walk phase, the HAWK beacon goes dark again.


They have HAWK beacons in Crescent City CA. They took me by surprise the first time I saw them. The RRFBs did too. Getting rid of all of these safety measures is just another downsizing of big government. And if people get killed, oh, well. They should have looked where they were going, right? I am sorry but you can not call yourself the part of the people and the party of life then try to stop life and people at every turn.


Okay seb, let's see if you can make it across a road without any signage or signals, traffic going 40 miles per hour, and a 4-lane road. If you get killed, as you said, oh well!

Just a month ago an older woman was killed in my part of town trying to cross a busy road with only a yellow crosswalk sign to warn drivers. Nobody, and I mean nobody, pays attention to a simple crosswalk sign on that road, and even if one motorist stops you still need the other three lanes to stop. But to you seb it's "oh well!", shit happens! Put yourself in her shoes.


Yes, I know. I was pointing out the absurdity of the right wing "get rid of government at all levels" argument. Crosswalks are just one of many regulations that government oversees. These HAWK beacons and RRFBs would help reduce pedestrian fatalities. But, it is too much big gub'mint for the right, it looks like.

Sarcasm does not translate into the written word very well.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5529
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
seb146 wrote:

They have HAWK beacons in Crescent City CA. They took me by surprise the first time I saw them. The RRFBs did too. Getting rid of all of these safety measures is just another downsizing of big government. And if people get killed, oh, well. They should have looked where they were going, right? I am sorry but you can not call yourself the part of the people and the party of life then try to stop life and people at every turn.


Okay seb, let's see if you can make it across a road without any signage or signals, traffic going 40 miles per hour, and a 4-lane road. If you get killed, as you said, oh well!

Just a month ago an older woman was killed in my part of town trying to cross a busy road with only a yellow crosswalk sign to warn drivers. Nobody, and I mean nobody, pays attention to a simple crosswalk sign on that road, and even if one motorist stops you still need the other three lanes to stop. But to you seb it's "oh well!", shit happens! Put yourself in her shoes.


Yes, I know. I was pointing out the absurdity of the right wing "get rid of government at all levels" argument. Crosswalks are just one of many regulations that government oversees. These HAWK beacons and RRFBs would help reduce pedestrian fatalities. But, it is too much big gub'mint for the right, it looks like.

Sarcasm does not translate into the written word very well.


HAWK beacons are still allowed and are not patented. They are in fact incorporated in the 2009 MUTCD. RRFBs on the other hand were granted an interim approval in 2008 and were not incorporated in the 2009 MUTCD. They were pretty much set to be incorporated in the next edition of the MUTCD until the patent was discovered, thus the interim approval was revoked.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2291
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
seb146 wrote:

They have HAWK beacons in Crescent City CA. They took me by surprise the first time I saw them. The RRFBs did too. Getting rid of all of these safety measures is just another downsizing of big government. And if people get killed, oh, well. They should have looked where they were going, right? I am sorry but you can not call yourself the part of the people and the party of life then try to stop life and people at every turn.


Okay seb, let's see if you can make it across a road without any signage or signals, traffic going 40 miles per hour, and a 4-lane road. If you get killed, as you said, oh well!

Just a month ago an older woman was killed in my part of town trying to cross a busy road with only a yellow crosswalk sign to warn drivers. Nobody, and I mean nobody, pays attention to a simple crosswalk sign on that road, and even if one motorist stops you still need the other three lanes to stop. But to you seb it's "oh well!", shit happens! Put yourself in her shoes.


Yes, I know. I was pointing out the absurdity of the right wing "get rid of government at all levels" argument. Crosswalks are just one of many regulations that government oversees. These HAWK beacons and RRFBs would help reduce pedestrian fatalities. But, it is too much big gub'mint for the right, it looks like.

Sarcasm does not translate into the written word very well.


My apologies. It's sad when I can't tell if people are being serious or sarcastic with those statements.

There was an article in the local paper in which a reader asked if they can legally hit a pedestrian if they're jaywalking. I wanted to slam my head into a wall.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9657
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:11 pm

Instead of spending millions on alternatives why not offer the Patent holder $1 million for unrestricted/unlimited installations around the country & territories/. Saves money and avoids future costs. Give the holder 10 days to decide and go on to other things if they say No.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5529
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:16 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Instead of spending millions on alternatives why not offer the Patent holder $1 million for unrestricted/unlimited installations around the country & territories/. Saves money and avoids future costs. Give the holder 10 days to decide and go on to other things if they say No.


That would require a change in federal laws to allow the inclusion of patented traffic control devices in the MUTCD.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 6960
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:27 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Instead of spending millions on alternatives why not offer the Patent holder $1 million for unrestricted/unlimited installations around the country & territories/. Saves money and avoids future costs. Give the holder 10 days to decide and go on to other things if they say No.


It seems to me the patent holder bought themselves out of a lot of money by patenting the product. Unless they weren't manufacturing it. )

Here I have seen stop signs with solar power led lights on the periphery. (Good for 4 way stops), but not sure if they are patented.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10431
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:30 am

Stupid question but what's wrong with red lights ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Topic Author
Posts: 5529
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:14 am

casinterest wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Instead of spending millions on alternatives why not offer the Patent holder $1 million for unrestricted/unlimited installations around the country & territories/. Saves money and avoids future costs. Give the holder 10 days to decide and go on to other things if they say No.


It seems to me the patent holder bought themselves out of a lot of money by patenting the product. Unless they weren't manufacturing it. )

Here I have seen stop signs with solar power led lights on the periphery. (Good for 4 way stops), but not sure if they are patented.


Nope, those are not patented and are incorporated in the MUTCD. There are also pedestrian signs with amber LEDs in the border as well, which is in fact one of the alternatives that the FHWA is promoting after the interim approval for RRFBs was rescinded.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
seb146
Posts: 18035
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:59 am

Aesma wrote:
Stupid question but what's wrong with red lights ?


Not everyone abides by red lights. Pedestrians, bicyclists, motorists...

I hate the Santa Rosa Junior College police. They have almost zero oversight by We The People of Sonoma County. I got a ticket for parking in an administration space 7 minutes early. Another student, with student stickers, was parked in the same lot, two spaces over and got no ticket. I told the SRJC administration that I wanted to fight the ticket. They told me to pay the fine and I would have my opportunity to plead my case. I got a letter saying, essentially, you have been found guilty. We are keeping the fine. I spoke to no one in a tribunal setting or anything. They decided, without hearing anything I had to say, I was guilty. However, the only thing good campus police do is patrol the crossings on the boulevard. That is the only good thing they do. Otherwise, they are worthless.

Sorry for the rant. And, yes, I am suggesting there be a separate patrol and higher tickets for these kinds of illegal crossings. Both by autos and by pedestrians.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Federal Highway Administration rescinds interim approval for Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons (RRFBs)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:51 am

af773atmsp wrote:
There was an article in the local paper in which a reader asked if they can legally hit a pedestrian if they're jaywalking. I wanted to slam my head into a wall.


Doesn't "stand your ground" and the doctrine of "your car is your moving ground" work towards that objective?

Shooting a minor who was fingering your wiper blades was deemed OK on "feeling endangered and stand your ground" doctrine.
Running over a jaywalker would fit just right into that view.
Murphy is an optimist

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: salttee and 53 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos