salttee
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The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:04 pm

We hear plenty from the knuckle draggers in this forum, here's the New Yorker POV.

What made the Emperor Nero tick, Suetonius writes in “Lives of the Caesars,” was “a longing for immortality and undying fame, though it was ill-regulated.” Many Romans were convinced that Nero was mentally unbalanced and that he had burned much of the imperial capital to the ground just to make room for the construction of the Domus Aurea, a gold-leaf-and-marble palace that stretched from the Palatine to the Esquiline Hill. At enormous venues around the city, he is said to have sung, danced, and played the water organ for many hours—but not before ordering the gates locked to insure that the house would remain full until after the final encore. Driven half mad by Nero’s antics, Romans feigned death or shimmied over the walls with ropes to escape.

Chaotic, corrupt, incurious, infantile, grandiose, and obsessed with gaudy real estate, Donald Trump is of a Neronic temperament..........................................

................He is unfit to hold any public office, much less the highest in the land. This is not merely an orthodoxy of the opposition; his panicked courtiers have been leaking word of it from his first weeks in office. The President of the United States has become a leading security threat to the United States.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... Q4MDExMQS2
 
Kiwirob
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:10 pm

He’s having his physical on wednesday, the results will be published, this should be fun.
 
NIKV69
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:43 pm

What people are failing to understand is all of this is just propaganda. You want him out then get a better bunch of candidates than Warren and Harris and get behind Cuomo. He is is in the white house for the next 3 years.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:19 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
What people are failing to understand is all of this is just propaganda. You want him out then get a better bunch of candidates than Warren and Harris and get behind Cuomo. He is is in the white house for the next 3 years.


Trump will be in the white house for the next 3 years, and the GOP will dread every second of it. His policies will yield the downfall of the dollar;. He is unfit for the job, because he has no original ideas other than to spend and borrow, and then look for a bailout.
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Airstud
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:49 am

NIKV69 wrote:
What people are failing to understand is all of this is just propaganda. You want him out then get a better bunch of candidates than Warren and Harris and get behind Cuomo. He is is in the white house for the next 3 years.


He is is?
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jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:59 am

Airstud wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
What people are failing to understand is all of this is just propaganda. You want him out then get a better bunch of candidates than Warren and Harris and get behind Cuomo. He is is in the white house for the next 3 years.


He is is?



All of what is propaganda exactly?
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:41 am

I think you will not like the next 7 years of Trump awesomeness.
 
NIKV69
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:27 am

casinterest wrote:
Trump will be in the white house for the next 3 years, and the GOP will dread every second of it. His policies will yield the downfall of the dollar;. He is unfit for the job, because he has no original ideas other than to spend and borrow, and then look for a bailout.


Actually you just described the liberal mantra. Trump is for fiscal responsibility and encouraging business to thrive. I don't think the economy will be as bad as you think it will be in 3 years. It;s doing ok last 12 months.

Airstud wrote:

He is is?


Yes if you really believe the Dems idea that he is going to be removed from office I have some cheap swamp land in Florida for sale.

jetero wrote:

All of what is propaganda exactly?


That he is going to somehow removed from office because the party that can't handle his victory is telling us on a daily basis that he isn't mentally stable and or how he colluded with Russia.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
salttee
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:35 am

NIKV69 wrote:
That he is going to somehow removed from office because the party that can't handle his victory is telling us on a daily basis that he isn't mentally stable and or how he colluded with Russia.
It's not surprising that you don't know the difference between reasoned opinion and propaganda. And you obviously don't.
 
KLDC10
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:47 am

salttee wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
That he is going to somehow removed from office because the party that can't handle his victory is telling us on a daily basis that he isn't mentally stable and or how he colluded with Russia.
It's not surprising that you don't know the difference between reasoned opinion and propaganda. And you obviously don't.


"Reasoned opinion"?! How about "frothing vitriol"? Because that's all I see coming out of the mouth of the mainstream media and that libelous scoundrel Wolff.
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Ozair
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:53 am

salttee wrote:
We hear plenty from the knuckle draggers in this forum, here's the New Yorker POV.

I don't get the "unfit to serve" comments. While Trump probably isn't a nice guy and not particularly good for the US last I looked there is no test one has to take to be deemed fit for political office.

There are only three requirements, the first is to be, now, a natural born citizen of the US, second to be over 35 years of age, and third, get enough people to vote for you that you beat the guy, or gal, competing against you...

In Trump's case, when your opposition candidate has the second highest unfavourable rating in US political history (after yourself), then its no surprise he can get elected. The Dems simply need to come up with some better candidates and start the process again in a year and a half.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:54 am

Ozair wrote:
salttee wrote:
We hear plenty from the knuckle draggers in this forum, here's the New Yorker POV.

I don't get the "unfit to serve" comments. While Trump probably isn't a nice guy and not particularly good for the US last I looked there is no test one has to take to be deemed fit for political office.

There are only three requirements, the first is to be, now, a natural born citizen of the US, second to be over 35 years of age, and third, get enough people to vote for you that you beat the guy, or gal, competing against you...

In Trump's case, when your opposition candidate has the second highest unfavourable rating in US political history (after yourself), then its no surprise he can get elected. The Dems simply need to come up with some better candidates and start the process again in a year and a half.


And as far as I gather, be fit in the eyes of the parliament, if enough parliamentarians feel, for whatever reason, he is unfit he might be removed from office.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Ozair
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 am

Dutchy wrote:

And as far as I gather, be fit in the eyes of the parliament, if enough parliamentarians feel, for whatever reason, he is unfit he might be removed from office.

It's not even that easy. The only process is via impeachment, which has never been the reason for the removal of a US President and is contingent on,

At the federal level, Article Two of the United States Constitution states in Section 4 that "The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors

Treason and bribery will be difficult to prove. Beyond that I can't see the US Senate conducting an impeachment before midterms and then after that Trump has every chance of being lame duck so it won't matter. I honestly doubt he will run in 2020, there is nothing left for him to prove.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:31 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
He’s having his physical on wednesday, the results will be published, this should be fun.

$20 it will be doctored to say that he's fine, the fittest president ever, even fitter than BEFORE he ran for office (though the beer belly does not lie).

Ozair wrote:
salttee wrote:
We hear plenty from the knuckle draggers in this forum, here's the New Yorker POV.

I don't get the "unfit to serve" comments. While Trump probably isn't a nice guy and not particularly good for the US last I looked there is no test one has to take to be deemed fit for political office.
By this comment, the guy could actually start following through with threats to kill people and continue firing and reshuffling officials, and you'd still say he shouldn't be removed. The "unfit to serve" comment stems from the fact that he needs instant gratification at the moment. Conservatives called Obama self-absorbed, but I never saw Reid or Pelosi hold a press conference and worship him the way Ryan, McConnell, and Hatch praised Trump after the tax reform passed ("exquisite leadership"?...really?). The lashing out against opponents, the censoring of people that don't agree with you, the constant battle with the media (but having explicit exceptions)...this is not someone who is in their right state of mind. People called Obama the n-word several times, the GOP opposed everything he did, and Fox News made a big deal of every breath he took, yet you can never say that Obama took to social media to shut those people down, threaten Fox News by revoking their license, and certain go ahead and use bullying tactics against his political opponents (Cryin' Boehner and Turtle McConnell, for example).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Flighty
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:38 pm

A nypost article put forward a thesis that this "impeachment porn" actually violates readers' dignity, by promising them a cheap thrill but not delivering anything of lasting value. Such as NYT articles about Mueller's purported "actions" based not on insiders, but on outsider analysis and speculation.

Whatever you think of Trump, one bright side has been that many journalists have been given an introductory education in the actual first principles of real journalism.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:21 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump will be in the white house for the next 3 years, and the GOP will dread every second of it. His policies will yield the downfall of the dollar;. He is unfit for the job, because he has no original ideas other than to spend and borrow, and then look for a bailout.


Actually you just described the liberal mantra. Trump is for fiscal responsibility and encouraging business to thrive. I don't think the economy will be as bad as you think it will be in 3 years. It;s doing ok last 12 months.
ecause the party that can't handle his victory is telling us on a daily basis that he isn't mentally stable and or how he colluded with Russia.


His Staff did collude with the Russians, and his business interests at the very least are at the beck and call of the Russians. He has no mental stability or Morality. He trades in wives like old cars, and then lets other people raise his kids. The economy will be fine in the short run with the bump to spending, but when the deficit hawks start to scream about the deficit, and the rest of the world stops buying our debt, we will be in for nothing but inflation and depression. Trump will have the US running Trillion dollar budget deficits within 2 years.
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jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:55 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
He is is?


Yes if you really believe the Dems idea that he is going to be removed from office I have some cheap swamp land in Florida for sale.


Who said that Nikky V? "He is is?" becomes in your head, "I believe the Dems idea that he is going to be removed from office?"

There are plenty of Democrats, including myself, who don't think he's going to be impeached.

Do you think people can have legitimate concerns about Trump based solely upon our own observations of his incoherent behavior and tweets? The fact that it is reported on in books and in newspapers is subsidiary.

Yet the chorus seems to be some derivation of "Suck it--he won," "He's the greatest president ever," "Hillary is the real criminal," or "This is some grand conspiracy." I guess, like I'm not surprised by the Fire and Fury book because of my own observations, I also shouldn't be surprised by the complete inability to reason of Bozo's yes-men supporters.

At this point, I'd much rather have Pence in office. You do realize that people who are arguing for his removal are fully cognizant that means 99% of his administration would be sticking around? This isn't a game, "I've got some cheap swamp land in Florida to sell you," Nikky V. (BTW, great job on completely screwing up the entire meaning of the idiom. Isn't all swamp land in Florida cheap?)

NIVV69 wrote:

All of what is propaganda exactly?


That he is going to somehow removed from office because the party that can't handle his victory is telling us on a daily basis that he isn't mentally stable and or how he colluded with Russia.


Ah, more evidence that you have voices in your head too because I just can't track that back to anything anyone has said in this thread.

All of this at the end of the day is really attributable to the Democrats' inability to cope with losing the election. Nothing else to see here.

Stop projecting you guys' dementia on to us. We know you guys think that way, but that doesn't mean any of us "libtards" do.
 
jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:02 pm

seahawk wrote:
I think you will not like the next 7 years of Trump awesomeness.


There he goes again, "Mr I Have No Opinion, I Just Find It Interesting, and I'm Speaking from the Perspective of How I Feel a Trump Supporter Would Speak."

I thought you were going to change your tune, seahawk.
 
jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:04 pm

Flighty wrote:
A nypost article put forward a thesis that this "impeachment porn" actually violates readers' dignity, by promising them a cheap thrill but not delivering anything of lasting value. Such as NYT articles about Mueller's purported "actions" based not on insiders, but on outsider analysis and speculation.


Yeah, one of the traditional forms of reporting (i.e., "outsider analysis and speculation") is a "violation of readers' dignity."

Spare us the sanctimony.

And stay tuned--it ain't over yet, no matter what Bozo wants to believe.
 
jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:07 pm

Ozair wrote:
I don't get the "unfit to serve" comments.


What a bizarre comment.

Do you not remember that Bozo himself raised the issue with Hillary?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 56?lang=en
Last edited by jetero on Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:16 pm

jetero wrote:
seahawk wrote:
I think you will not like the next 7 years of Trump awesomeness.


There he goes again, "Mr I Have No Opinion, I Just Find It Interesting, and I'm Speaking from the Perspective of How I Feel a Trump Supporter Would Speak."

I thought you were going to change your tune, seahawk.


Considering the current economic outlook it is likely that the next downturn will only happen after the next election. And with a booming economy Trump has the money to satisfy his voters. In the end, as one great American president said, "It is the economy, stupid." Or to put it differently, if the economy does well even a stupid president can stay in office.

With that in mind, I am expecting a second term of Trump.
 
jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:19 pm

seahawk wrote:
Considering the current economic outlook it is likely that the next downturn will only happen after the next election.


Um OK. That's definitely not a stretch.

seahawk wrote:
Considering the current economic outlook it is likely that the next downturn will only happen after the next election. And with a booming economy Trump has the money to satisfy his voters. In the end, as one great American president said, "It is the economy, stupid." Or to put it differently, if the economy does well even a stupid president can stay in office.

With that in mind, I am expecting a second term of Trump.


Not sure what any of the above has to do with anything I said.

Is this seahawkese for finally admitting you're a Satisfied Trumpist?
 
incitatus
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:36 pm

seahawk wrote:
I think you will not like the next 7 years of Trump awesomeness.


If you were one of those women he grabbed by you know what, would you still think Trump awesomeness exists?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:07 pm

jetero wrote:

Not sure what any of the above has to do with anything I said.

Is this seahawkese for finally admitting you're a Satisfied Trumpist?


That is saying that in a booming economy every moron had a good chance to be re-elected. He will probably even get the money to built his stupid wall and his supporters will be ecstatic. Therefore and because of all the winning going on, I am expecting 7 more years of awesome twitter winning.

incitatus wrote:
seahawk wrote:
I think you will not like the next 7 years of Trump awesomeness.


If you were one of those women he grabbed by you know what, would you still think Trump awesomeness exists?


Do you believe his voters care about any women he grabbed?
 
Ozair
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:19 pm

jetero wrote:

What a bizarre comment.

Do you not remember that Bozo himself raised the issue with Hillary?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 56?lang=en

What does what Trump talking about Hilary in a twitter conversation have anything to do with being unfit? I would say the same thing about Hillary if she had become President, the whole unfit statement is stupid. There is no metric other than committing a crime that allows a sitting president to be removed from office. The people of the US, after they voted him in, cannot suddenly say we don't like you anymore and you can leave (other than revolution) except where the law has been broken and even that isn't the American people deciding but a small subset of elected officials who are all biased.

einsteinboricua wrote:
By this comment, the guy could actually start following through with threats to kill people and continue firing and reshuffling officials, and you'd still say he shouldn't be removed. The "unfit to serve" comment stems from the fact that he needs instant gratification at the moment. Conservatives called Obama self-absorbed, but I never saw Reid or Pelosi hold a press conference and worship him the way Ryan, McConnell, and Hatch praised Trump after the tax reform passed ("exquisite leadership"?...really?). The lashing out against opponents, the censoring of people that don't agree with you, the constant battle with the media (but having explicit exceptions)...this is not someone who is in their right state of mind. People called Obama the n-word several times, the GOP opposed everything he did, and Fox News made a big deal of every breath he took, yet you can never say that Obama took to social media to shut those people down, threaten Fox News by revoking their license, and certain go ahead and use bullying tactics against his political opponents (Cryin' Boehner and Turtle McConnell, for example).

None of the things you have mentioned would meet the clearly specified criteria for removal from office.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:23 pm

seahawk wrote:
Do you believe his voters care about any women he grabbed?


I know that nobody has to justify who he did vote for, and for which reasons.

But democracy is a tad more complicated than Trump supporters want to believe.

When every voter only cares for oneself, democracy can lead to genocides just as well as any dictatorship. "Why should I care for Jews? I'm not a Jew, and they can go to hell." is not any different than "Why should I care about women?"

To vote for people like Trump should be unthinkable for any educated person.

It is the duty of every honest and honorable citizen to resist buffoons like Trump, and to resist their policies.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
seb146
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:23 pm

Flighty wrote:
A nypost article put forward a thesis that this "impeachment porn" actually violates readers' dignity, by promising them a cheap thrill but not delivering anything of lasting value. Such as NYT articles about Mueller's purported "actions" based not on insiders, but on outsider analysis and speculation.

Whatever you think of Trump, one bright side has been that many journalists have been given an introductory education in the actual first principles of real journalism.


Unfortunately, if real journalists report what is going on inside the White House, they are called "fake news" and the right wing Trumpettes believe that over the actual reporting.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:26 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump will be in the white house for the next 3 years, and the GOP will dread every second of it. His policies will yield the downfall of the dollar;. He is unfit for the job, because he has no original ideas other than to spend and borrow, and then look for a bailout.


Actually you just described the liberal mantra. Trump is for fiscal responsibility and encouraging business to thrive. I don't think the economy will be as bad as you think it will be in 3 years. It;s doing ok last 12 months.


The only thing he has been able to accomplish are executive orders rolling back Obama's executive orders. The one piece of legislation that actually got through Congress and onto his desk will add trillions of dollars to the deficit. But, since the CBO reported that, it is fake....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:36 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

Trump is for fiscal responsibility


What kind of crack are you smoking, Sir? I want some, too...

It's actually a conservative mantra to call for fiscal responsibility when they are NOT in power, but as soon as they're in government, they absolutely love to cut taxes and raise the debt.

Reagan? Check.

Bush the Greater? Check.

Bush the Lesser? Check.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
NIKV69
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:42 pm

salttee wrote:
It's not surprising that you don't know the difference between reasoned opinion and propaganda. And you obviously don't.


I do and it's apparent you don't. Having an opinion is fine, when you keep reciting it every half hour to achieve a political goal then it is propaganda. If you want to deny CNN and MSNBC is doing this fine but it's pure fantasy.

seb146 wrote:

The only thing he has been able to accomplish are executive orders rolling back Obama's executive orders. The one piece of legislation that actually got through Congress and onto his desk will add trillions of dollars to the deficit.


I am not sure Collins would have voted for this if your doomsday claim had any validity but whatever you say.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:56 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Trump is for fiscal responsibility and encouraging business to thrive.


Yup, Trump's tax bill will go down with tens of millions of Dollars, the tax bill for his kids with billions and he encourages his own businesses to thrive..... :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:32 pm

The cynicism here amazes me. We really have sunk so, so low in such a short period of time.

Exhibit A:

incitatus wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If you were one of those women he grabbed by you know what, would you still think Trump awesomeness exists?


Do you believe his voters care about any women he grabbed?


Que sera, sera, then, I guess.

Exhibit B:

Ozair wrote:
the whole unfit statement is stupid.


Implication: Might as well not bother considering the President of the United States' mental state since the specifics are not addressed by the Constitution.

(Incidentally, Oz, is anyone, anywhere in this thread, saying, "Oh well, we know we voted you in, but we don't like you anymore, so you have to leave.")

Exhibit C:

NIKV69 wrote:
Having an opinion is fine, when you keep reciting it every half hour to achieve a political goal then it is propaganda. If you want to deny CNN and MSNBC is doing this fine but it's pure fantasy.


24-hour news organizations reporting on a new book that calls into question the President's mental fitness that just became available 48 hours ago, then reporting on the President's own response and that of his surrogates, then reporting on that of Bannon's apology, which BTW, also wasn't a retraction, is "propaganda" and "pure fantasy."

Jesus, after his taking credit for no commercial aviation fatalities this past week, I'd think at least some peoples' eyes on this site would open up enough to at least consider the possibility that the man is completely bonkers.
 
Ozair
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:58 pm

jetero wrote:

Ozair wrote:
the whole unfit statement is stupid.


Implication: Might as well not bother considering the President of the United States' mental state since the specifics are not addressed by the Constitution.

I don't see a change in his mental state from before and after the election, he has demonstrated a reasonably consistent brand of crazy!

jetero wrote:
(Incidentally, Oz, is anyone, anywhere in this thread, saying, "Oh well, we know we voted you in, but we don't like you anymore, so you have to leave.")

No, the thread is about someone being deemed unfit to hold office but not liking how one performs the office is not sufficient grounds for deeming them unfit.
How about we define what the term unfit actually means?

By definition,

unfit
ʌnˈfɪt/
adjective
1.
(of a thing) not of the necessary quality or standard to meet a particular purpose.
"the land is unfit for food crops"
synonyms: unsuitable for, unsuited to, inappropriate to, ill-suited to, ill-adapted to, unequipped for, inadequate for, unprepared for, unfitted for, not designed for, ineligible for, unworthy of; More
2.
(of a person) not in good physical condition, typically as a result of failure to take regular exercise.
"the increase in the number of unfit and overweight children is alarming"
synonyms: unhealthy, out of condition, out of shape, in poor condition, in poor shape, flabby, debilitated, weak, infirm, decrepit
"unfit and overweight children"
verbarchaic
3.
make (something or someone) unsuitable; disqualify.
"making women printers will only unfit them for the paramount duties of female society"

Well we have already established that number one is currently graded by Article Two of the US Constitution, a birth requirement and an age limit. Number two may be the case but hasn’t been proven while number three is essentially void as a President can only be deemed unfit based on number one.
 
jetero
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:16 pm

Ozair wrote:
I don't see a change in his mental state from before and after the election, he has demonstrated a reasonably consistent brand of crazy!


Well no disagreement there. None of what has been reported surprises me.

Ozair wrote:
No, the thread is about someone being deemed unfit to hold office but not liking how one performs the office is not sufficient grounds for deeming them unfit.


Oz, this is not a question of style--this is a question of the mental stability of the President of the United States.

Ozair wrote:
How about we define what the term unfit actually means?

By definition,

unfit
ʌnˈfɪt/
adjective
1.
(of a thing) not of the necessary quality or standard to meet a particular purpose.
"the land is unfit for food crops"
synonyms: unsuitable for, unsuited to, inappropriate to, ill-suited to, ill-adapted to, unequipped for, inadequate for, unprepared for, unfitted for, not designed for, ineligible for, unworthy of; More
2.
(of a person) not in good physical condition, typically as a result of failure to take regular exercise.
"the increase in the number of unfit and overweight children is alarming"
synonyms: unhealthy, out of condition, out of shape, in poor condition, in poor shape, flabby, debilitated, weak, infirm, decrepit
"unfit and overweight children"
verbarchaic
3.
make (something or someone) unsuitable; disqualify.
"making women printers will only unfit them for the paramount duties of female society"

Well we have already established that number one is currently graded by Article Two of the US Constitution, a birth requirement and an age limit. Number two may be the case but hasn’t been proven while number three is essentially void as a President can only be deemed unfit based on number one.


Please tell me where on this thread anyone besides you is bringing up the Constitution, or proposing that he be removed on any constitutional basis.

We are saying that there is reason to believe that the President of the United States is mentally unhinged. To those of us who believe so, hopefully it's not a stretch for you to understand that we would like (1) his mental acuity and functioning to be independently assessed; (2) if such assessment does confirm our suspicion, that he would voluntarily resign; or (3) despite any political bias, responsible government officials would try to persuade him to resign, or, if you want to bring the Constitution into it, exercise the powers outlined in Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. I know we have zero reason to expect that people would behave as such, which, in and of itself, is probably the most disturbing thing to fall out of the events of the past year.

The idea that the President of the United States may be mentally unfit might be worthy of discussion is not "stupid," as you nonchalantly claim it is. I can't even believe the importance of such a discussion is even being questioned.
 
Ozair
Posts: 2535
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:47 pm

jetero wrote:
Please tell me where on this thread anyone besides you is bringing up the Constitution, or proposing that he be removed on any constitutional basis.

I took issue with the claims on being unfit. The conclusion of that talk is removal from office and the only way to involuntarily remove a sitting President from office is via the Constitution.

jetero wrote:
We are saying that there is reason to believe that the President of the United States is mentally unhinged. To those of us who believe so, hopefully it's not a stretch for you to understand that we would like (1) his mental acuity and functioning to be independently assessed; (2) if such assessment does confirm our suspicion, that he would voluntarily resign; or (3) despite any political bias, responsible government officials would try to persuade him to resign, or, if you want to bring the Constitution into it, exercise the powers outlined in Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. I know we have zero reason to expect that people would behave as such, which, in and of itself, is probably the most disturbing thing to fall out of the events of the past year.

The idea that the President of the United States may be mentally unfit might be worthy of discussion is not "stupid," as you nonchalantly claim it is. I can't even believe the importance of such a discussion is even being questioned.

You can talk about the President being mentally unfit, but given his pattern of behaviour has not changed from before the election to post the election, I don’t see how there are grounds for that claim to be taken as valid or a mental assessment made. There were enough scandals and issues, and in his public life in general, before the election to show the character and mental state of Trump and he does not appear to have deviated from that since entering office.

I also don't consider Section 4 of the 25th Amendment valid in this instance. Trump has bullied people and probably made some terrible decisions but overall the US Government continues to function, frankly probably no worse than it has for the last fifteen years.
 
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cpd
Posts: 5402
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Having an opinion is fine, when you keep reciting it every half hour to achieve a political goal then it is propaganda. If you want to deny CNN and MSNBC is doing this fine but it's pure fantasy.


You'd better start challenging Rupert Murdoch because some of his right wing news outlets have also been spewing anti-Trump propaganda too, very consistently in recent weeks.
 
jetero
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:14 am

Ozair wrote:
jetero wrote:
We are saying that there is reason to believe that the President of the United States is mentally unhinged. To those of us who believe so, hopefully it's not a stretch for you to understand that we would like (1) his mental acuity and functioning to be independently assessed; (2) if such assessment does confirm our suspicion, that he would voluntarily resign; or (3) despite any political bias, responsible government officials would try to persuade him to resign, or, if you want to bring the Constitution into it, exercise the powers outlined in Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. I know we have zero reason to expect that people would behave as such, which, in and of itself, is probably the most disturbing thing to fall out of the events of the past year.

The idea that the President of the United States may be mentally unfit might be worthy of discussion is not "stupid," as you nonchalantly claim it is. I can't even believe the importance of such a discussion is even being questioned.


You can talk about the President being mentally unfit, but given his pattern of behaviour has not changed from before the election to post the election, I don’t see how there are grounds for that claim to be taken as valid or a mental assessment made. There were enough scandals and issues, and in his public life in general, before the election to show the character and mental state of Trump and he does not appear to have deviated from that since entering office.

I also don't consider Section 4 of the 25th Amendment valid in this instance. Trump has bullied people and probably made some terrible decisions but overall the US Government continues to function, frankly probably no worse than it has for the last fifteen years.


So to be clear, are you arguing:

1) He isn't mentally unfit (in your opinion)?

or

2) If he is, so what, we all knew it to begin with--caveat emptor?
 
Ozair
Posts: 2535
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:42 am

jetero wrote:

So to be clear, are you arguing:

1) He isn't mentally unfit (in your opinion)?

or

2) If he is, so what, we all knew it to begin with--caveat emptor?


1) I don't know. To make that determination you need to have a baseline. Do you want to measure his mental stability against himself ten/twenty/thirty years ago, against a society norm, something else? Would set a hell of a precedent... At some point that mental assessment process may become discriminatory given nothing currently precludes a crazed serial killer from becoming the President of the US except for his birth nation and age. Past criminal history has no bearing (it almost certainly makes you an unviable candidate though). Yes how he performs once in Office can impact his suitability but I expect that requires a more significant issue than twitter rants, bullying and throwing down the toys in disgust.

2) To a certain extent. Nothing has changed with him before the election to today as far as his public attitude and demeanour.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 7837
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:56 am

seahawk wrote:
Considering the current economic outlook it is likely that the next downturn will only happen after the next election. And with a booming economy Trump has the money to satisfy his voters. In the end, as one great American president said, "It is the economy, stupid." Or to put it differently, if the economy does well even a stupid president can stay in office.

With that in mind, I am expecting a second term of Trump.


Except for 1 thing....a Dem wave in 2018 will make it more tolerable
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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EstherLouise
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:01 am

Kiwirob wrote:
He’s having his physical on wednesday, the results will be published, this should be fun.


The White House doctor will discover the cause of his erratic behavior. He'll find that the President is suffering from a severe case of phimosis (look it up if you have to) and it's constricting the blood flow to his brain.
712 722 732 734 737 738 741 742 744 752 762 772 A310 DC91 DC93 DC94 DC1030 DC1040 F100 MD82 MD83
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13339
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:02 am

There are several ways of being rid of Trump as President. Death from natural causes. Impeachment where convicted by the Senate. Resignation as Nixon did during the first step of the Impeachment process or for health reasons. Medical or mental disability where the 25th Amendment can be invoked. He chooses not to run in 2020, loses in the primary or loses in the General Election. Of course one other is unmentionable.
Yes, there is suggestions of possible mental unfitness of Trump as Presidential, many of us have strong desires for him to leave office ASAP but he was legally elected under our laws and to undo it is extremely difficult. Besides, if he is no longer President during his term VP Pence, who may be worse in his political and social beliefs would be President.
It also would have been better if the Democrats didn't put up Hillary Clinton, if the didn't play up GLTBQ rights more than the need for good paying jobs, didn't have a history of supporting job destroying trade laws, had actually helped working and middle class families and individuals financially ruined in the 2008 Crash instead of Wall Street, and HRC wasn't so tainted by scandal herself and campaigned smarter and better.
There may be other possibilities that may limit or partially neuter Trump. A major economic downturn, not unlikely as we have a serious 'bubble' economy. Attacking Iran or North Korea. A major terror attack in the USA he could effectively encourage by his belligerent behaviors or actions. Mueller tying him directly with digital, paper, audio or video evidence meeting with Russian Oligarchs or government officials or his finances finally connected to extortion by them. Somehow decades of his and his corporate tax returns get released to the public (we need a new WIkileaks bad). The best hope is to somehow get a Democratic Party House and Senate majority so can limit the damage Trump is doing or peruse Impeachment proceedings.
 
salttee
Topic Author
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:06 am

ltbewr wrote:
and HRC wasn't so tainted by scandal herself

Hillary hasn't been tainted by scandal, she has been tainted by accusations of scandal.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13339
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:11 am

salttee wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
and HRC wasn't so tainted by scandal herself

Hillary hasn't been tainted by scandal, she has been tainted by accusations of scandal.

True, but even if not 'guilty' of scandal, it still sticks to you and to her and kept up as 'true' by her haters.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11726
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am

salttee wrote:
Hillary hasn't been tainted by scandal, she has been tainted by accusations of scandal.


Private email server was not just an accusation in fact it contributed greatly to her crushing defeat.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
jetero
Posts: 3233
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:03 am

NIKV69 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Hillary hasn't been tainted by scandal, she has been tainted by accusations of scandal.


Private email server was not just an accusation in fact it contributed greatly to her crushing defeat.


Come now, Nikky V, you're letting her off way too easy. She also colluded with the Russians, murdered Seth Rich (along with many others), torpedoed Bernie, and roasted the Libyan ambassador. And that certainly isn't "propaganda" to which you seem to be so sensitive.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 6707
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Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:54 am

727LOVER wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Considering the current economic outlook it is likely that the next downturn will only happen after the next election. And with a booming economy Trump has the money to satisfy his voters. In the end, as one great American president said, "It is the economy, stupid." Or to put it differently, if the economy does well even a stupid president can stay in office.

With that in mind, I am expecting a second term of Trump.


Except for 1 thing....a Dem wave in 2018 will make it more tolerable


Or maybe even work to his advantage, if the economy shows signs of weakening before the next election and he can blame the Democrats for it. And considering the support he is seeing from large co-operations (bonus payments just in time for the tax break) it could turn out to be very hard to remove him before he did his second term.

jetero wrote:
The cynicism here amazes me. We really have sunk so, so low in such a short period of time.

Exhibit A:

incitatus wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If you were one of those women he grabbed by you know what, would you still think Trump awesomeness exists?


Do you believe his voters care about any women he grabbed?


Que sera, sera, then, I guess.


Cynicism no, that is basic democracy. Democracy depends on which topics are important to which group of voters. And I dare say that the grabbing of women is not high on the list of his supporters. This is as hard to understand as the fact that people have not turned away from him after reading his tweets.
 
seb146
Posts: 16971
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:17 am

NIKV69 wrote:
salttee wrote:
Hillary hasn't been tainted by scandal, she has been tainted by accusations of scandal.


Private email server was not just an accusation in fact it contributed greatly to her crushing defeat.


Because you righties and right wing media insisted there was a huge scandal behind it. There was not but you all insisted it was something.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 16971
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:42 am

NIKV69 wrote:
salttee wrote:
It's not surprising that you don't know the difference between reasoned opinion and propaganda. And you obviously don't.


I do and it's apparent you don't. Having an opinion is fine, when you keep reciting it every half hour to achieve a political goal then it is propaganda. If you want to deny CNN and MSNBC is doing this fine but it's pure fantasy.

seb146 wrote:

The only thing he has been able to accomplish are executive orders rolling back Obama's executive orders. The one piece of legislation that actually got through Congress and onto his desk will add trillions of dollars to the deficit.


I am not sure Collins would have voted for this if your doomsday claim had any validity but whatever you say.


Since there is a litmus test and "party before country" mindset among Republicans, she had to. Also, here is your "fiscally responsible" leader

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/08/house-t ... n-cbo.html

But, CBO is fake, so...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3886
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:08 am

seahawk wrote:
And considering the support he is seeing from large co-operations (bonus payments just in time for the tax break) it could turn out to be very hard to remove him before he did his second term.

I don't think the one-off bonuses are going to buy as much good will as you seem to think. Employees would much rather forgo the bonus and get a pay raise... Isn't it what Gary Cohn promised after all?
MAGag
 
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seahawk
Posts: 6707
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: The Increasing Unfitness of Donald Trump

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:31 am

blueflyer wrote:
seahawk wrote:
And considering the support he is seeing from large co-operations (bonus payments just in time for the tax break) it could turn out to be very hard to remove him before he did his second term.

I don't think the one-off bonuses are going to buy as much good will as you seem to think. Employees would much rather forgo the bonus and get a pay raise... Isn't it what Gary Cohn promised after all?


Human psychology works differently. You will have more positive memories of me giving you 1000$ once a year, than of me giving you 100$ each months. And more importantly the one time bonus payment will be more strongly connected to the tax cuts in the mind of his supporters this way. With the additional bonus that the form of it forms no basis for an ongoing entitlement in the future.

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