salttee
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Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:39 am

That's the NYT byline for the story.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/k ... oting.html

How's the arming of America working out?

Had enough yet?
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:43 am

A tragedy again, with no end in sight. The arming of America continues unabated here, the gun shop is loaded every day in my neighborhood. How did this kid get his hands on a weapon? Carelessness, stupidity, ignorance by the parents or guardians???
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Brick
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:03 am

This sounds completely made up. The NYT article only lists 3 other incidents, one didn't even involve a firearm.

There was a shooting at a school in Italy, Texas yesterday. One today in Kentucky. Someone please tell me when and where the other 9 school shootings have been in the United States since the start of the year.
Last edited by Brick on Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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salttee
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:28 am

Here's nine. Go to the NYT for the other two.

1/23/2018 Marshall County High School, Kentucky
1/22/2018 Italy, TX Italy High School High School Attack on other persons(s) resulting in injury or death
1/20/2018 Winston-Salem, NC Wake Forest University College or University Attack on other persons(s) resulting in injury or death
1/15/2018 Marshall, TX Wiley College College or University Gun fired but no one injured
1/10/2018 Sierra Vista, AZ Coronado Elementary School Elementary School Attempted or completed suicide, with no intent to injure other person
1/10/2018 Denison, TX Grayson College Community College Gun fired but no one injured
1/10/2018 San Bernardino, CA California State University, San Bernardino College or University Gun fired but no one injured
1/4/2018 Seattle, WA New Start High School High School Gun fired but no one injured
1/3/2018 St. Johns, MI East Olive Elementary School Elementary School Attempted or completed suicide, with no intent to injure other person
 
bagoldex
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:41 am

Everyone clearly needs to pray harder.
 
Olddog
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:52 am

But Free Speech....
 
seb146
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:12 am

Well, arming teachers didn't work, so let's arm the children as well. What could go wrong with that?

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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mad99
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:22 am

bagoldex wrote:
Everyone clearly needs to pray harder.


or shooting lessons
most are missis
 
NIKV69
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:15 am

seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
bagoldex
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:17 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


Based on election results, there's a 70% chance it's going to be a couple of Trump voters burying their kids in Texas and a 73% chance of the Kentucky victims being children of Trump voters.
 
Mir
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:39 am

bagoldex wrote:

Based on election results, there's a 70% chance it's going to be a couple of Trump voters burying their kids in Texas and a 73% chance of the Kentucky victims being children of Trump voters.


And also an incredibly high chance that the people burying their children have wanted to do something about the gun violence epidemic for a while. This is not a partisan issue - gun reform has wide support nationwide, but special interests have Congress and state legislatures in their pocket and are preventing them from following through on the will of the people. We shouldn't assign motives to grieving parents in the absence of any evidence beyond where they live.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bagoldex
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:51 am

Mir wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

Based on election results, there's a 70% chance it's going to be a couple of Trump voters burying their kids in Texas and a 73% chance of the Kentucky victims being children of Trump voters.


And also an incredibly high chance that the people burying their children have wanted to do something about the gun violence epidemic for a while. This is not a partisan issue - gun reform has wide support nationwide, but special interests have Congress and state legislatures in their pocket and are preventing them from following through on the will of the people. We shouldn't assign motives to grieving parents in the absence of any evidence beyond where they live.


In those parts of the country where people cling to their guns and elect politicians who oppose the slightest regulation on gun sales, yes it is a partisan issue. I'm not saying anybody deserves to go through this but maybe they'll learn their actions have consequences when they're identifying their kid in the morgue or explaining to him that he can't go huntin' and fishin' and muddin' anymore because he had bullet sever his cervical spine at 16 years old.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:54 am

seb146 wrote:
Well, arming teachers didn't work, so let's arm the children as well. What could go wrong with that?

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


So what's your answer to it Seb? I will admit I really don't have an answer for all this insanity. I want to hear from liberals what your answer to all the gun violence is? Background checks? We have them already. Tighten up straw purchases and private sales ok I am for that. None of anything the left has proposed would have stopped any of the school shootings or the mass shootings thus far. At this point like it or not there are so many guns in the US you will never get a handle on it. I know several people that have hundreds of guns each. In the south that's the way it is. I think we need to stop trying to attack this from the gun angle and start looking at other factors. I think social media has been more to blame for a lot of this than even the guns themselves.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:58 am

We clearly must be sending more #Thotsanpreyers because it's how we help without doing anything.
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salttee
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:24 pm

stratosphere wrote:
I want to hear from liberals what your answer to all the gun violence is?
A massive reduction in the number of guns.
stratosphere wrote:
None of anything the left has proposed would have stopped any of the school shootings or the mass shootings thus far.
You're wrong.
stratosphere wrote:
At this point like it or not there are so many guns in the US you will never get a handle on it.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
stratosphere wrote:
I think we need to stop trying to attack this from the gun angle and start looking at other factors.
We have never "attacked this from the gun angle" we have only attacked this from the "debate about it" angle.
stratosphere wrote:
I think social media has been more to blame for a lot of this than even the guns themselves.
Please explain that.
That strikes me as blaming the sinking of the Titanic on the shipping news.
 
Redd
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:20 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.



Yeah but why do you feel different? It's clearly not benefiting your society more than it's doing a dis-service to it. If something doesn't work over and over and over again wouldn't you think it's time to try a new approach? Not saying get rid of the guns even but teach people how to use them, put them through psychological exams to see if they're fit to possess a tool which is ONLY meant to kill.

Don't forget that when the second amendment was written they had muskets, not much damage anyone could do with a musket. I don't think the founding fathers of the USA would've been fine with people having assault rifles and bump stocks.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


Not really. Gun reform has wide support. A powerful minority is what’s stopping any changes, but the majority of the nation now wants reform.
 
WIederling
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:35 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


This is a self fixing problem, isn't it? no bovines, no mouth and hoof dis....
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MaverickM11
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:48 pm

The NRA has to hit its annual body count and sell more guns. Looks like they're right on track #blessed
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seb146
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:48 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


Changing is not denying, no matter how you spin it.

I grew up in evangelical, very little diversity, "God Guns Gays" eastern Oregon. You righties still think that any number of children being murdered by a gun is not a high enough price but we must deny women the right to choose. You love the fetus, hate the child. We get it. You righties want something done about gun violence in Chicago but don't make any laws about guns. You mock "safe spaces" but get your knickers in a twist when anyone talks about gun laws. The tipping point is coming. Sanity will finally win. Children will finally be able to attend school without fear of being gunned down.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
ltbewr
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:07 pm

The much larger issues as to these school based shootings is bullying (including in social media) and mental illness. Add in easy access to guns, too much media including video games that encourages violence to resolve issues, poverty and economic inequality, not enough or no affordable access to health and mental health care, parents who don't care, are not good at parenting or due to work pressures cannot or won't spend time with their children, gender issues, racism, and you have a mix of issues that lead to these shooting events.
 
apodino
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


Changing is not denying, no matter how you spin it.

I grew up in evangelical, very little diversity, "God Guns Gays" eastern Oregon. You righties still think that any number of children being murdered by a gun is not a high enough price but we must deny women the right to choose. You love the fetus, hate the child. We get it. You righties want something done about gun violence in Chicago but don't make any laws about guns. You mock "safe spaces" but get your knickers in a twist when anyone talks about gun laws. The tipping point is coming. Sanity will finally win. Children will finally be able to attend school without fear of being gunned down.

I take exception with the statements about choice. Women do have the right to choose. I just believe that that choice should be made before a woman gets pregnant. Regardless of how much contraception you provide for free, if you a woman and you have sex there is always a chance you will get pregnant. The myth that is perpetrated (and what I believe the abortion debate is really about at its core) is that there is a such thing as consequence free sex. The truth is, regardless of whether or not there is a pregnancy, sex does have consequences for both people that participate in it.

I do believe in caring for the child after birth. That is why me and my wife are adopting. This way a child who was conceived will have a loving home and be cared for and be allowed to live. I support a number of organizations that help provide care for these children and help to single women who face this situation as well. To say that I dont care about the child after birth is just not true.


As for the gun issue, because the founding fathers put the second amendement into the constitution, this is not a solution that can be solved easily. Even if you put in the restrictions on gun ownership that many people advocate for (which to me actually make sense in a lot of ways), the reaility is that there would be court challenges to any such legislation, which likely end up at the supreme court. If the supreme court strikes much of this down on second amendment grounds, then what? Do you push for a constitutional amendment repealing the second amendment? While I personally dont own a gun, and quite frankly never will own a gun for reasons I wont divulge here, I can tell you that there would be a uproar in a lot of areas if this were to happen. And this is where people that live in very blue areas like the Northeast and the West Coast that have never been to other areas of the country dont realize how big a deal this is. Guns are a big deal in places like Minnesota and Wisconsin, which are two states that have big hunting cultures. These have been blue states in the past, but WI went for trump, and MN came close to turning. I also work with a lot of guys who shoot, and if take away their guns they would be furious.

I dont know what the answer is quite frankly. I honestly think the NRA needs to be part of the solution to this. They should be promoting gun safety. I dont like the fact that they are silent on these shootings. What does worry me nothing that I have seen proposed would have prevented any of the shootings that have happened. They appear to be bills that tell the people we are doing something, when in fact nothing changes. Sadly too many bills that appear to do good end up doing nothing. The Lily Ledbetter fair pay act is another example.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 pm

salttee wrote:
A massive reduction in the number of guns.


Here is same vague statement we always hear from people who feel we should be like Europe. Semi automatic guns will always be available to people with no criminal record and who pass a mental health screen. How exactly should they be reduced? If you listen to the far left here it's always taking away all guns. It's why we never get anywhere in congress.

Redd wrote:
Don't forget that when the second amendment was written they had muskets, not much damage anyone could do with a musket. I don't think the founding fathers of the USA would've been fine with people having assault rifles and bump stocks.


Hundred thousands of dead men from the civil war would disagree with you.

I agree we shouldn't have automatic weapons the problem is you and the far left want to go further and can't sign common sense regulation.

CitizenJustin wrote:
Not really. Gun reform has wide support. A powerful minority is what’s stopping any changes, but the majority of the nation now wants reform.


If that was the case it would have been done already. Those polls are horribly sampled and don't address exact bills. If there was a bill that got rid of bump stocks, automatic weapons etc it would pass. The problem is any legislation that is considered gets hijacked by the far left wing of the Dems and never goes anywhere because it would be widely unpopular in states Dems need to win generals.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
seb146
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:29 pm

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.

Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


Changing is not denying, no matter how you spin it.

I grew up in evangelical, very little diversity, "God Guns Gays" eastern Oregon. You righties still think that any number of children being murdered by a gun is not a high enough price but we must deny women the right to choose. You love the fetus, hate the child. We get it. You righties want something done about gun violence in Chicago but don't make any laws about guns. You mock "safe spaces" but get your knickers in a twist when anyone talks about gun laws. The tipping point is coming. Sanity will finally win. Children will finally be able to attend school without fear of being gunned down.

I take exception with the statements about choice. Women do have the right to choose. I just believe that that choice should be made before a woman gets pregnant. Regardless of how much contraception you provide for free, if you a woman and you have sex there is always a chance you will get pregnant. The myth that is perpetrated (and what I believe the abortion debate is really about at its core) is that there is a such thing as consequence free sex. The truth is, regardless of whether or not there is a pregnancy, sex does have consequences for both people that participate in it.

I do believe in caring for the child after birth. That is why me and my wife are adopting. This way a child who was conceived will have a loving home and be cared for and be allowed to live. I support a number of organizations that help provide care for these children and help to single women who face this situation as well. To say that I dont care about the child after birth is just not true.


As for the gun issue, because the founding fathers put the second amendement into the constitution, this is not a solution that can be solved easily. Even if you put in the restrictions on gun ownership that many people advocate for (which to me actually make sense in a lot of ways), the reaility is that there would be court challenges to any such legislation, which likely end up at the supreme court. If the supreme court strikes much of this down on second amendment grounds, then what? Do you push for a constitutional amendment repealing the second amendment? While I personally dont own a gun, and quite frankly never will own a gun for reasons I wont divulge here, I can tell you that there would be a uproar in a lot of areas if this were to happen. And this is where people that live in very blue areas like the Northeast and the West Coast that have never been to other areas of the country dont realize how big a deal this is. Guns are a big deal in places like Minnesota and Wisconsin, which are two states that have big hunting cultures. These have been blue states in the past, but WI went for trump, and MN came close to turning. I also work with a lot of guys who shoot, and if take away their guns they would be furious.

I dont know what the answer is quite frankly. I honestly think the NRA needs to be part of the solution to this. They should be promoting gun safety. I dont like the fact that they are silent on these shootings. What does worry me nothing that I have seen proposed would have prevented any of the shootings that have happened. They appear to be bills that tell the people we are doing something, when in fact nothing changes. Sadly too many bills that appear to do good end up doing nothing. The Lily Ledbetter fair pay act is another example.


This is what reasonable debate looks like. Thank you.

There does need to be some kind of gun ownership responsibility. Guns should be available to citizens for specific purposes. Not just because some people think "liberals" want to take them away. Hunting is legitimate. Self defense against an ex or family member who refuses mental health counseling, a gun would be a last resort. There are plenty of reasons people should be allowed to have guns. Just because less than .000001% of "liberals" want all guns banned does not mean all Democrats do. Democrats are not the same thing as "liberals." (looking at you NIKV)

I disagree that NRA needs to be in on gun legislation. They, IMO, are part of the problem.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
NIKV69
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:48 am

seb146 wrote:
Guns should be available to citizens for specific purposes


There you go again. It's not up to you or anyone to control or make "purposes" for our rights.

.
seb146 wrote:
Not just because some people think "liberals" want to take them away. Hunting is legitimate. Self defense against an ex or family member who refuses mental health counseling, a gun would be a last resort. There are plenty of reasons people should be allowed to have guns. Just because less than .000001% of "liberals" want all guns banned does not mean all Democrats do. Democrats are not the same thing as "liberals." (looking at you NIKV)


Sematics won't help your weak argument. The hardliners in the Democratic party want no guns in society.


seb146 wrote:
I disagree that NRA needs to be in on gun legislation. They, IMO, are part of the problem.


No they are not you are just vilifying them because they support our rights to bear arms. I agree with you that should not be involved in any gun legislation but you continue to use them as a straw man and go as far to blame them for shootings and it's totally ridiculous.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
seb146
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:38 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Guns should be available to citizens for specific purposes


There you go again. It's not up to you or anyone to control or make "purposes" for our rights.

.
seb146 wrote:
Not just because some people think "liberals" want to take them away. Hunting is legitimate. Self defense against an ex or family member who refuses mental health counseling, a gun would be a last resort. There are plenty of reasons people should be allowed to have guns. Just because less than .000001% of "liberals" want all guns banned does not mean all Democrats do. Democrats are not the same thing as "liberals." (looking at you NIKV)


Sematics won't help your weak argument. The hardliners in the Democratic party want no guns in society.


seb146 wrote:
I disagree that NRA needs to be in on gun legislation. They, IMO, are part of the problem.


No they are not you are just vilifying them because they support our rights to bear arms. I agree with you that should not be involved in any gun legislation but you continue to use them as a straw man and go as far to blame them for shootings and it's totally ridiculous.


Who are the "hard line Democrats" that want to do away with guns completely? That one time Pelosi said that one thing means ALL Democrats ALL the time?

The largest gun group did NOTHING when 20 children were gunned down in Connecticut. They continued to do NOTHING with each passing mass shooting.

Wait... they did do something: they demanded that guns be unrestricted period. Life be damned.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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DDR
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:32 am

Well one thing is clear: the status quo isn’t working. Something is going to have to be done. Little kids shouldn’t have to be worried about being murdered at school.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:37 am

DDR wrote:
Well one thing is clear: the status quo isn’t working. Something is going to have to be done. Little kids shouldn’t have to be worried about being murdered at school.


On that, we can certainly agree. If only the NRA would accept that fact, or at least admit we have a gun problem. Too Many, too easy to get.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:02 am

Quick question: is it legal for US citizens to acquire a nuclear weapon (assuming they had enough money)?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:20 am

NIKV69 wrote:
It's not up to you or anyone to control or make "purposes" for our rights.

You right is for and including "a well regulated militia." And this is why you are scared. You know that a judge(s) handed you unfettered access to guns (even though people similar decry "activist judges" that don't hue to a "strict constructionist" interpretation of the constitution), and that it will be corrected sometime in the near(ish) future.

Of course you will scream about activist judges... well maybe not you but for sure Fox and conservative talk radio or whatever has replaced it.

Guns are fine, access to guns is fine, the right to bear arms is fine, but it is because of the need for a regulated militia. SO get ready to join one. A well regulated one.....

Anywho... I am sure I will be flamed for advocating to take away your guns, butI'm not. I'm fine with you having them. Just be like my family: No one has a gun that hasn't earned it, (and if someone decides to just get one...) no one comes to the family event with a gun that hasn't demonstrated that A. they aren't an idiot with it (i.e. just bought one from Walmart and wants to bring it over to show it off); and B. that they know how to handle it and use it and actually hit something with it accurately, consistently. Now your family may be different, but that is OK because you won't be a family for long if you don't follow similar guidelines.

No government intrusion is needed, just "well regulated" family militia's or similar.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
tommy1808
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:49 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But the Second Amendment is the only one we need to enforce and protect. All the others are just filler anyway /sarcasm


Don't know what you mean but all amendments should be enforced and protected. Including the one you want to deny us of.


It is a constitution, not a suicide pakt....

if no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


.... that is great, but a very loud minority with a lot of money feels different here.

Fixed it for you. Stricter gun laws have majority support and no one is suggesting banning all guns.

Best regards
Thomas
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DDR
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:47 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Quick question: is it legal for US citizens to acquire a nuclear weapon (assuming they had enough money)?


Of course not, there is no benefit for the NRA.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:55 pm

DDR wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
Quick question: is it legal for US citizens to acquire a nuclear weapon (assuming they had enough money)?


Of course not, there is no benefit for the NRA.


I certainly hope it's not illegal, or at least not barred/restricted by the government. After all:

'the right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED'

Not allowing people to bear nuclear arms sounds an awful lot like infringing.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11494
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:55 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
.... that is great, but a very loud minority with a lot of money feels different here.

Fixed it for you. Stricter gun laws have majority support and no one is suggesting banning all guns.

Best regards
Thomas


Strict gun laws don't do anything just ask Chicago. What gun law would stop shootings (Since most are committed with guns purchased legally)

Please be specific.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
Eyad89
Posts: 314
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:30 pm

An honest question here, what makes some folks here think that building a wall is more important than guns control? I am genuinely curious about what goes in that thought process.


Which one poses a greater threat on the nation in your opinion, immigration policies or gun control?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:57 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
.... that is great, but a very loud minority with a lot of money feels different here.

Fixed it for you. Stricter gun laws have majority support and no one is suggesting banning all guns.

Best regards
Thomas


Strict gun laws don't do anything just ask Chicago.


Strict gun laws and open borders don't play well with each other, Chicago can not legislate sense into the surrounding country side.

What gun law would stop shootings (Since most are committed with guns purchased legally)

Please be specific.


Gun permit only for those that demonstrate proficiency in handling the desires weapon, the legal enviromemt on when and how they are legal to use and safe storage requirements. And automatically prosecuting death caused by failure to honour those storage requirement as manslaughter, with my limited knowledge of US law I am not sure, but constructive manslaughter sounds about right.

Since responsible persons would be in compliance in any case, effects on responsible gun owners should be neglectable. The above is basically all the difference between the objective failure the US gun laws are and the myriad of successful legal environments.

I am not aware of any studies specifically looking at open and concealed carry in term of net effect, but if negative that would need to go to.

I personally also like if people need to demonstrate an empirically sound reason to have a gun, I.e. hunting or sports, not self defence. But for the US that probably won't ever fly, and paredo style the above should be the 20% that gets you 80% of the gain.

Well, and a generation or so of patience for it to develop its full effect.

Best regards
Thomas
 
seb146
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:16 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
.... that is great, but a very loud minority with a lot of money feels different here.

Fixed it for you. Stricter gun laws have majority support and no one is suggesting banning all guns.

Best regards
Thomas


Strict gun laws don't do anything just ask Chicago. What gun law would stop shootings (Since most are committed with guns purchased legally)

Please be specific.


Strawman purchases, private party purchases, bump stocks, mental health counseling, national database, mandatory waiting periods, mandatory insurance, mandatory annual safety and use classes.

Automobiles, tobacco, and alcohol are regulated by the government and still readily available to anyone who wants them.

And stop using Chicago to say that gun laws don't work. Mass shootings take place in all fifty states, not just Chicago. Mass shootings take place in cities and states where there are lax gun laws. Just because you hate Obama and Democrats does not excuse the mass shootings in Aurora or Sandy Hook or Las Vegas or Columbine or Virginia Tech or Orlando......
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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Tugger
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
.... that is great, but a very loud minority with a lot of money feels different here.

Fixed it for you. Stricter gun laws have majority support and no one is suggesting banning all guns.

Best regards
Thomas


Strict gun laws don't do anything just ask Chicago. What gun law would stop shootings (Since most are committed with guns purchased legally)

Please be specific.

Where are you getting this from? Source? From what I have read you are totally wrong that most shooting are done with legally purchased guns. Many are not known but form what is known the max appears to be just over 10%
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... es-commit/

Additionally:
According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state. The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws.

https://www.chicagocriminallawyerblog.n ... icago.html

So that means those guns may be legally purchased but they may not be legal in Chicago or at the very least Chicago can't be faulted for a large inflow of guns from outside their control.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
NIKV69
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:15 pm

seb146 wrote:


Strawman purchases, private party purchases, bump stocks, mental health counseling, national database, mandatory waiting periods, mandatory insurance, mandatory annual safety and use classes.


None of these would have stopped Sandy Hook. He used his mothers guns which were purchased legally and within your parameters I posted above. Yes we need to get rid of bump stocks but anyone who wants to commit a mass shooting will just use an semi automatic weapon.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
apodino
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:26 pm

One thing I would like to see in this country is this. The FBI maintains the coda database, which is a massive computerized database of DNA and fingerprints. I think this could be used in firearms as well. Require every gun to be test fired and put the info on the gun including serial number into a database which also includes the lans and grooves from the test fire. This way, if a gun is used in a crime the spent bullets can be recovered and electronically matched in seconds to a particular gun. Would help law enforcement a lot in solving gun crimes, and would act as a deterrent since people know it will be harder to get away with gun crimes. Of course, the NRA is against this common sense measure.
 
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Tugger
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:51 pm

apodino wrote:
One thing I would like to see in this country is this. The FBI maintains the coda database, which is a massive computerized database of DNA and fingerprints. I think this could be used in firearms as well. Require every gun to be test fired and put the info on the gun including serial number into a database which also includes the lans and grooves from the test fire. This way, if a gun is used in a crime the spent bullets can be recovered and electronically matched in seconds to a particular gun. Would help law enforcement a lot in solving gun crimes, and would act as a deterrent since people know it will be harder to get away with gun crimes. Of course, the NRA is against this common sense measure.

This is what many NRA types are scared of and don't support. It is equivalent/similar to serialized ammo which they also oppose. It is the government having a database on you and your gun and they can come take it or you when they want.

For the gun lobby databases are a no-no. They barely tolerate what is done now (and don't support closing gun show and neighbor/family sales and transfers loopholes for background checks. Too much big gov interference intruding on their right to bear arms needed for a well regulated militia... oh wait...)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:04 pm

apodino wrote:
Require every gun to be test fired and put the info on the gun including serial number into a database which also includes the lans and grooves from the test fire.


Those change over time in a used gun and you would need to expend that to spare barrels.

This way, if a gun is used in a crime the spent bullets can be recovered and electronically matched in seconds to a particular gun.


Guns don't kill people, bullets do. Mandate bullets and powder to be mixed with nanoparticle markers to be traceable. That way you also don't need a giant federal database, police would have to run down leads, but that is what police does.

Would help law enforcement a lot in solving gun crimes, and would act as a deterrent since people know it will be harder to get away with gun crimes. Of course, the NRA is against this common sense measure.


High probability to get cought is much more effective than long sentences.

Best regards
Thomas
This signature is a safe place.
 
seb146
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:52 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Strawman purchases, private party purchases, bump stocks, mental health counseling, national database, mandatory waiting periods, mandatory insurance, mandatory annual safety and use classes.


None of these would have stopped Sandy Hook. He used his mothers guns which were purchased legally and within your parameters I posted above. Yes we need to get rid of bump stocks but anyone who wants to commit a mass shooting will just use an semi automatic weapon.


Actually, since SHE bought the guns and SHE was responsible, SHE would have been as responsible for the murders of those children because SHE did not responsibly care for her guns.

But, that one instance means we can not ever have any regulation or gun safety at all because that one instance prove nothing works.

Not even thoughts and prayers.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
Redd
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
salttee wrote:
A massive reduction in the number of guns.


Here is same vague statement we always hear from people who feel we should be like Europe. Semi automatic guns will always be available to people with no criminal record and who pass a mental health screen. How exactly should they be reduced? If you listen to the far left here it's always taking away all guns. It's why we never get anywhere in congress.

Redd wrote:
Don't forget that when the second amendment was written they had muskets, not much damage anyone could do with a musket. I don't think the founding fathers of the USA would've been fine with people having assault rifles and bump stocks.


Hundred thousands of dead men from the civil war would disagree with you.

I agree we shouldn't have automatic weapons the problem is you and the far left want to go further and can't sign common sense regulation.

CitizenJustin wrote:
Not really. Gun reform has wide support. A powerful minority is what’s stopping any changes, but the majority of the nation now wants reform.


If that was the case it would have been done already. Those polls are horribly sampled and don't address exact bills. If there was a bill that got rid of bump stocks, automatic weapons etc it would pass. The problem is any legislation that is considered gets hijacked by the far left wing of the Dems and never goes anywhere because it would be widely unpopular in states Dems need to win generals.


A 5 year old with a letter opener would be able to stop a musket-man from reloading and taking a second shot. Not a practical tool for mass shootings by a lone gunman. I'm not the far left by the way, but with mass shootings becoming the norm you have to admit there is a problem. What in your opinion should/can be done to stop this from happening in the USA? It's a discussion which needs to happen.
 
salttee
Topic Author
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:47 pm

This is just hilarious, the right wing Kentucky governor who has stated that he won't sign any legislation restricting guns calls on Americans to "wake up," recognize that school shootings are a "cultural problem,” and to look at the “root causes.”

"Wake up" and look at the root cause of school shootings!

This reminds me of the suggestion that we add lead to our water supplies so that we can get the real taste of freedom.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/27/re ... r-son.html
 
B777LRF
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Strict gun laws don't do anything just ask Chicago. What gun law would stop shootings (Since most are committed with guns purchased legally)

Please be specific.


The 'Chicago Argument' is BS of the highest order, and can only be explained by those making the argument are also suggesting, there's an interstate travel ban in the US and/or the 'border' between states are subjected to stringent entry/exit controls.

Of course it bloody well serves no purpose whatsoever banning the trade with, or carriage of, firearms in a single city, when every single person living there are free to travel less than 50 miles in order to get to place, where they can buy all the guns their bank accounts will underwrite. Putting it up as an example of how 'gun control' doesn't work, is asinine on a galactic scale.

If you want to know whether gun control works, try Australia for size. It too is a former colony, rough and rugged in its ways, with a strongly independent streak and much importance placed on the ability to stand at ones own two feet, without undue interference from the government. And whilst they don't have constitution which, in parts, have shown not to be up to the task of governing a 21st century country, they do have one but just don't look view it as a God-like manifesto. It took one single horrific act for them to decide 'we're going to do what we can, to make sure something like that doesn't happen again'. One crucially component in the measures taken, was drastic changes to gun ownership laws, which had the effect of restricting said ownership to farmers, licensed hunters and sports shooters, whilst putting a complete and total ban on anything even remotely resembling an 'automatic'. You know, like most of the civilised world does things. And, indeed, Australia has not suffered from a single mass shooting since then. Go look up the statistics if you're in any doubt but, most of all, please dispense with the 'Chicago argument' henceforth, it's ridiculously shallow.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
jetero
Posts: 1938
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:56 pm

Thoughts and prayers
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 194
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:07 am

jetero wrote:
Thoughts and prayers



https://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com
I miss the Red Tail
 
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bgm
Posts: 1453
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:00 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Another shooting another thread bashing the US and guns. If no guns in your country works for you that is great but we feel different here.


How dare you claim to speak for me and millions of other Americans who do NOT share this viewpoint.

The majority of Americans support some level of gun control.
 
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mad99
Posts: 1034
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Re: Kentucky School Shooting Is 11th of Year. It’s Jan. 23.

Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:32 am

There have been 11 US school shootings this year. Is it time to arm teachers?

From the bbc

Teachers gunning down kids looks like the way forward

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