LJ
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:32 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
It is a fascinating document. Estimated GDP impact of the different scenarios:
EEA: -0.6% to -2.6%
FTA: -3.1% to -6.6%
WTO: -5% to - 10.3%


What's more interesting is that the forecast from UK based research firms is more optemistic than those of non-UK researchers.

Olddog wrote:
To add to my previous post I can't edit anymore : https://capx.co/the-brexit-blueprint-th ... to-follow/

With that, the Eu can easily predict the next moves from TM.


Thanks for the link. The Dutch fishermen will be pleased to read that capx advises to give away the seas to the EU.

https://capx.co/the-catch-in-taking-bac ... h-fishing/
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 pm

LJ wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
It is a fascinating document. Estimated GDP impact of the different scenarios:
EEA: -0.6% to -2.6%
FTA: -3.1% to -6.6%
WTO: -5% to - 10.3%


What's more interesting is that the forecast from UK based research firms is more optemistic than those of non-UK researchers.


Logic dictates that this will hurt the UK economy, the only question is how much. Saying anything else is naive.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:52 pm

But plenty of people will keep denying it.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:23 pm

So it seems that the EU is a bit tired with the no solution trick from the UK:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-talks-irish-border-tusk-varadkar-northern-ireland-uk-solution-dup-a8246216.html

The EU has thrown down an ultimatum to Theresa May in Brexit talks, warning that it will not open discussions about trade or other issues until the Irish border question is solved.

Speaking in Dublin alongside the Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, European Council President Donald Tusk said talks would be a case of “Ireland first” and that “the risk of destabilising the fragile peace process must be avoided at all costs”.

“We know today that the UK Government rejects a customs and regulatory border down the Irish Sea, the EU single market, and the customs union,” the Mr Tusk said.

EU rejects Theresa May’s Brexit trade plan

“While we must respect this position, we also expect the UK to propose a specific and realistic solution to avoid a hard border.

“As long as the UK doesn’t present such a solution, it is very difficult to imagine substantive progress in Brexit negotiations.

“If in London someone assumes that the negotiations will deal with other issues first before the Irish issue, my response would be: Ireland first.”


At what is a bit strange is the silence in the main press:

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86794

We know today that the UK government rejects: "a customs and regulatory border down the Irish Sea" said European Council president Donald Tusk. He was speaking in Dublin after meeting with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar to discuss Ireland's concerns on several important issues ahead of the European Council in two weeks.

And it wasn't only the "wet border" that the UK rejects. That takes in the EU's Single Market and the customs union – a position Tusk says must be respected. On the other hand, the EU expects the UK to propose "a specific and realistic solution to avoid a hard border". And as long as the UK doesn't present such a solution, said Mr Tusk, "it is very difficult to imagine substantive progress in Brexit negotiations".

Then we got the bombshell: "If in London someone assumes that the negotiations will deal with other issues first, before moving to the Irish issue, my response would be: Ireland first".

If that represents the official policy of the European Union, then we have to take it that the negotiations are frozen. They will remain so until the UK comes up with a solution that will avoid a hard border in Ireland. That is how the Independent sees it, reporting that the EU "has thrown down an ultimatum to Theresa May".

Oddly enough, The Times - once the "paper of record" – hadn't picked this up at the time of writing. But the Daily Mail had managed to tear itself away from poisoned Russians long enough to notice. This paper had it that Donald Tusk had warned that all 27 EU nations "are united in their determination to secure a deal for Ireland before trade talks".

As one might expect, the BBC has also picked it up, with its website headlining: "Brexit: 'Ireland first,' says Tusk after Varadkar meeting". It also quotes Tusk elaborating the EU's position. "Since my last visit here in Dublin", Tusk said, "I have spoken to virtually every EU leader, and every one of them – without exception – declared, just like Prime Minister Bettel did yesterday, that among their priorities are: protecting the peace process, and avoiding a hard border".

He then uttered what could be taken as a battle-cry: "The EU stands by Ireland. This is a matter between the EU27 and UK, not Ireland and the UK".

This is both unequivocal and damning. And it wasn't even the full extent of what Tusk had to say, in what was actually quite a short statement. On his way to declaring solidarity with Ireland, Tusk referred to Hammond's speech from yesterday.


Wonder whar will happen at the next European meeting.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:45 pm

The British government is fully aware of the catch 22 they have maneuvred themselves in with all of their self imposed red lines, yet it equally knows there is a Parliamentary majority in the making to remain in custom union with the EU which -together with the CTA- would solve the Irish border issue, so my bet is TM is quietly hoping the UK government will be defeated on this issue in Parliament soon, after which she can be fullfilling both the referendum result as well as living up to any decision by the British Parliament by just negotiating a soft Brexit and all the hard Brexiteers will have to suck it up because it is due to a cross party decision by the Parliament which they wanted to see regain its full sovereignty.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:47 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
The British government is fully aware of the catch 22 they have maneuvred themselves in with all of their self imposed red lines, yet it equally knows there is a Parliamentary majority in the making to remain in custom union with the EU which -together with the CTA- would solve the Irish border issue, so my bet is TM is quietly hoping the UK government will be defeated on this issue in Parliament soon, after which she can be fullfilling both the referendum result as well as living up to any decision by the British Parliament by just negotiating a soft Brexit and all the hard Brexiteers will have to suck it up because it is due to a cross party decision by the Parliament which they wanted to see regain its full sovereignty.

if only.

The Labour Party and opposition in general would support that if it became the default position as the alternative is obscene. A hard Brexit crippling everybody.

The MayBot needs to grow a pair (well figuratively anyway) and stick the Hard Brexiteers on the back benches. They are literally the same Bastards that brought John Major down in 1997. Very few faces have changed and they are equally as rabid. David Davis and Squeaky Liam the Nimrod Murderer need shoving out of the way and some pragmatic people putting where it counts.

The alternative is a Rees Mogg future and even I couldn't think about that without crying.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:19 pm

Channex757 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
The British government is fully aware of the catch 22 they have maneuvred themselves in with all of their self imposed red lines, yet it equally knows there is a Parliamentary majority in the making to remain in custom union with the EU which -together with the CTA-her job would solve the Irish border issue, so my bet is TM is quietly hoping the UK government will be defeated on this issue in Parliament soon, after which she can be fullfilling both the referendum result as well as living up to any decision by the British Parliament by just negotiating a soft Brexit and all the hard Brexiteers will have to suck it up because it is due to a cross party decision by the Parliament which they wanted to see regain its full sovereignty.

if only.

The Labour Party and opposition in general would support that if it became the default position as the alternative is obscene. A hard Brexit crippling everybody.

The MayBot needs to grow a pair (well figuratively anyway) and stick the Hard Brexiteers on the back benches. They are literally the same Bastards that brought John Major down in 1997. Very few faces have changed and they are equally as rabid. David Davis and Squeaky Liam the Nimrod Murderer need shoving out of the way and some pragmatic people putting where it counts.

The alternative is a Rees Mogg future and even I couldn't think about that without crying.


Yet TM is completely indecisive due to the lack of any workable majority without both the soft as well as the hard Brexit fraction of her Tory party, so she's just going to let 'events' dictate the direction things move in, whether those happen in Brussels or Westminster, but they are definitely not going to happen in Nr 10 any more: the only way she can cling on to power is if government is effectively acting as just a sort of purely executive branch, with TM as Pontius Pilate figure.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Beats me all this malarkey.

May was originally regarded as the woman who made Maggie Thatcher look like a Bronte sister. Hard doesn't even begin to describe her image. The clues were there though in that the Home Offfice was spinning like crazy to hide their failures and the savage cuts May implemented.

She is only really any good (for a given value of good) as part of collegiate Government with a leader. As that leader she just hasn't got it. Every week in PMQs Jeremy Corbyn doesn't even have to try that hard as all she does is read from a prepared hymn sheet. God help her if Blair was suddenly back at the Box. he'd rip her to shreds
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:59 am

Finally some awareness in the media :https://behindthepaywall2.wordpress.com/2018/03/10/politicians-are-so-lost-in-groupthink-that-they-are-failing-us-on-both-brexit-and-power-stations/

[quote]Last Sunday I wrote that, after a year of the two sides just talking past each other on Brexit, the moment had come when hard reality was at last breaking in on the British government’s serial make-believe. This has since been even more brutally confirmed.
"It seems that we are much nearer to a complete breakdown of negotiations than has yet been generally realised"

There was a time when Philip Hammond seemed to have more grip on reality than his colleagues. But last week he blew it twice over. In first setting out his hopes that the City could continue to play a central part in European Union financial services by relying on “mutual recognition”, he seemed unaware that such an arrangement would be flatly contrary to EU law.

Hammond says EU fishermen could have access to British waters post-Brexit

He then stated that we would be reclaiming full control of our fishing waters, oblivious to the fact that this would be against UN law, which protects other countries’ “acquired fishing rights”.

Finally, we had Donald Tusk warning that, unless the UK comes up with a realistic proposal on the Irish border, there can be no wider trade talks. With less than two weeks before the crucial EU council meeting to conclude the border issue satisfactorily, it seems that we are much nearer to a complete breakdown of negotiations than has yet been generally realised./quote]
 
sevenair
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:32 am

Channex757 wrote:
Beats me all this malarkey.

May was originally regarded as the woman who made Maggie Thatcher look like a Bronte sister. Hard doesn't even begin to describe her image. The clues were there though in that the Home Offfice was spinning like crazy to hide their failures and the savage cuts May implemented.

She is only really any good (for a given value of good) as part of collegiate Government with a leader. As that leader she just hasn't got it. Every week in PMQs Jeremy Corbyn doesn't even have to try that hard as all she does is read from a prepared hymn sheet. God help her if Blair was suddenly back at the Box. he'd rip her to shreds


Every PMQ is reading from a prepared hymn sheet no matter who is in power. You do know how PMQ works don't you?
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:50 am

Some more details of what TM means by a soft border:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 48621.html

I cannot see that going down well with many people on both sides of the border.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:49 pm

I have already talked about the nefarious Legatum institute. Today a more mainstream article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486019/Think-tank-accused-trying-drive-hard-Brexit-left-turmoil.html#

Think-tank accused of trying to drive Theresa May towards a hard Brexit is left in turmoil after exodus of top staff

The Mail on Sunday revealed its influence on the Government’s EU agenda
Up to six senior figures quit the Legatum Institute after it came to light
Most high-profile resignation was Shanker Singham, director of economic policy

The most high-profile resignation has been that of Shanker Singham

A controversial think-tank accused of trying to drive Theresa May towards a hard Brexit was in turmoil last night after an exodus of top staff.

Up to six senior figures have quit the Legatum Institute since The Mail on Sunday’s revelations about its hidden influence on the Government’s EU agenda.

News of the departures comes after claims that the institute’s supporters felt it was ‘tainted’ by its secret links to Brexit cheerleaders Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.

The most high-profile resignation has been that of Shanker Singham, its director of economic policy. Other recent departures also include Cristina Odone, the ex-Catholic Herald editor, and Danny Kruger, a former aide to David Cameron. We disclosed last November that Mrs May’s Government was effectively being held to ransom over Brexit by Mr Johnson and Mr Gove, who were being aided by the institute.

It helped them compose a secret missive to the Prime Minister telling her how to get a hard Brexit, and Mr Singham held a series of private meetings with Brexit Ministers and officials.

Eventually there were claims that the Civil Service, known to be cautious towards the UK’s exit from the EU, was being bypassed by an unaccountable organisation with its own political agenda.

This newspaper’s disclosures led the Charity Commission to open an ongoing ‘compliance case’ to examine whether the Legatum’s trustees were running the charity in line with their stated objective of promoting education.

According to one source, Mr Singham left after being blocked from holding any more briefings with Ministers. There were also reports that his closeness to Mr Johnson and Mr Gove had led to tension with Legatum Institute chief executive, Tory Baroness Philippa Stroud.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:31 pm

sevenair wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Beats me all this malarkey.

May was originally regarded as the woman who made Maggie Thatcher look like a Bronte sister. Hard doesn't even begin to describe her image. The clues were there though in that the Home Offfice was spinning like crazy to hide their failures and the savage cuts May implemented.

She is only really any good (for a given value of good) as part of collegiate Government with a leader. As that leader she just hasn't got it. Every week in PMQs Jeremy Corbyn doesn't even have to try that hard as all she does is read from a prepared hymn sheet. God help her if Blair was suddenly back at the Box. he'd rip her to shreds


Every PMQ is reading from a prepared hymn sheet no matter who is in power. You do know how PMQ works don't you?

Presumably you don't as you would understand the dour, soul-warping way May does it. If Corbyn asks an awkward question she sticks to the prepared remarks. At least Cameron was a slippery bastard and didn't try to be anything else except an incompetent salesman.

May might as well just phone her performance in. She obviously hates it in case the Speaker should call a nutty right wing Brexitard and she gets put on the spot.

Did you ever watch Blair? One of his more redeeming qualities was to rip opposition leaders to shreds as well as making PMQs thirty minutes instead of 2x 15 sessions
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:14 pm

Olddog wrote:
I have already talked about the nefarious Legatum institute. Today a more mainstream article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486019/Think-tank-accused-trying-drive-hard-Brexit-left-turmoil.html#

Think-tank accused of trying to drive Theresa May towards a hard Brexit is left in turmoil after exodus of top staff

The Mail on Sunday revealed its influence on the Government’s EU agenda
Up to six senior figures quit the Legatum Institute after it came to light
Most high-profile resignation was Shanker Singham, director of economic policy

The most high-profile resignation has been that of Shanker Singham

A controversial think-tank accused of trying to drive Theresa May towards a hard Brexit was in turmoil last night after an exodus of top staff.

Up to six senior figures have quit the Legatum Institute since The Mail on Sunday’s revelations about its hidden influence on the Government’s EU agenda.

News of the departures comes after claims that the institute’s supporters felt it was ‘tainted’ by its secret links to Brexit cheerleaders Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.

The most high-profile resignation has been that of Shanker Singham, its director of economic policy. Other recent departures also include Cristina Odone, the ex-Catholic Herald editor, and Danny Kruger, a former aide to David Cameron. We disclosed last November that Mrs May’s Government was effectively being held to ransom over Brexit by Mr Johnson and Mr Gove, who were being aided by the institute.

It helped them compose a secret missive to the Prime Minister telling her how to get a hard Brexit, and Mr Singham held a series of private meetings with Brexit Ministers and officials.

Eventually there were claims that the Civil Service, known to be cautious towards the UK’s exit from the EU, was being bypassed by an unaccountable organisation with its own political agenda.

This newspaper’s disclosures led the Charity Commission to open an ongoing ‘compliance case’ to examine whether the Legatum’s trustees were running the charity in line with their stated objective of promoting education.

According to one source, Mr Singham left after being blocked from holding any more briefings with Ministers. There were also reports that his closeness to Mr Johnson and Mr Gove had led to tension with Legatum Institute chief executive, Tory Baroness Philippa Stroud.


"unaccountable organisation with its own political agenda" : pretty much like the daily mail then ?

I don't understand the tone of the article, is the daily mail now against Brexit ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:41 pm

The Mail on Sunday is separate to the Daily Mail, with separate editors, and actually pro EU.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:55 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Did you ever watch Blair? One of his more redeeming qualities was to rip opposition leaders to shreds as well as making PMQs thirty minutes instead of 2x 15 sessions


Nah, that kind of implies that Blair had more than no redeeming qualities. Simply not true.
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Dano1977
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:37 pm

Channex757 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Beats me all this malarkey.

May was originally regarded as the woman who made Maggie Thatcher look like a Bronte sister. Hard doesn't even begin to describe her image. The clues were there though in that the Home Offfice was spinning like crazy to hide their failures and the savage cuts May implemented.

She is only really any good (for a given value of good) as part of collegiate Government with a leader. As that leader she just hasn't got it. Every week in PMQs Jeremy Corbyn doesn't even have to try that hard as all she does is read from a prepared hymn sheet. God help her if Blair was suddenly back at the Box. he'd rip her to shreds


Every PMQ is reading from a prepared hymn sheet no matter who is in power. You do know how PMQ works don't you?

Presumably you don't as you would understand the dour, soul-warping way May does it. If Corbyn asks an awkward question she sticks to the prepared remarks. At least Cameron was a slippery bastard and didn't try to be anything else except an incompetent salesman.

May might as well just phone her performance in. She obviously hates it in case the Speaker should call a nutty right wing Brexitard and she gets put on the spot.

Did you ever watch Blair? One of his more redeeming qualities was to rip opposition leaders to shreds as well as making PMQs thirty minutes instead of 2x 15 sessions


William Hague actually had the measure of Blair on more than one occasion during PMQ's

The only time I saw Teflon Tony lose his shiny veneer
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:18 am

scbriml wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Did you ever watch Blair? One of his more redeeming qualities was to rip opposition leaders to shreds as well as making PMQs thirty minutes instead of 2x 15 sessions


Nah, that kind of implies that Blair had more than no redeeming qualities. Simply not true.

Can't really argue with that. Point conceded.

He was good on the dispatch box though.
 
sevenair
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:27 am

http://www.anna.aero/2018/03/06/uk-germ ... p-airport/

Showing a 17% increase in Brexit Britain and Germany by Ryanair alone. Perhaps 'pivot away' means something different in Ireland?

Oh, I forgot. How silly of me. We all know these flights will all end next March and the UK will go from beinthe biggest aviation market in Europe to become some North Korea with no traffic and become a place where everyone wants out and nobody wants in. We already have a 1 star national carrier and Brother Korbyn is already a messiah and will become our Dear Leader when Labour come into power.

EK are rumoured to be starting BCN-MEX in addition to Italy-New York but we must never forget that the UK airlines won't be able to fly to Europe anymore but it's a good job as we won't be able to travel anyway saying as we will all need visas to go over La Manche. Benidorm Intercontinental Airport is going to get rather quiet. It's the mom & pop businesses in Spain I feel sorry for but it's ok I've been reassured that us evil Brits will be replaced with Russians and Eastern Europeans and that the toll will still be busy.

#solidarity
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:45 am

sevenair wrote:
#solidarity


developing a bit of a victim complex, are we?

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
sevenair
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:56 am

Oh no! Companies are being told to prepare for the worst which is good news. However the remoaners neglect to mention that it's standard to warn of regulatory approval required just like QF does on the new LHRPER service and Norwegian has done too.

If we are all going to be condemned to these savagely racist isles, are the remoaners investing in domestic tourism? Hoseasons or Butlins perhaps? Or are they investing in property in coastal resorts of a bygone era? Afterall we all voted to leave the EU to 'go back in time' or something like that? Skeggy here we come. Perhaps Blackpool airport will reopen to passenger traffic and we can rename Bristol airport Weston-super-Mare Domestic Airport (saying as there won't be any international flights). Scarborough Tees Valley has a certain ring to it and we'll rename Gatwick London Eastbourne. May as well brick up that tunnel whilst we're there as we won't be able to use it no more.
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
sevenair
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:23 am

Oh dear. How sad.

Busiest February EVER at STN

1.7m pax for Feb = + 4.8%

Cargo up in Feb for 19,477 tonnes = +2.1%

Jet2 and Primera also adding capicity in addition to numerous Ryanair increases since announcing they'll 'pivot away' from the UK.

Domestic flying makes up a tiny % of STN flying, as does non-EU flying. It seems more people than ever before want to travel between the EU and London.

'Oh but we haven't left yet'
'Oh, yes, but without Brexit it would be so much higher'
Last edited by sevenair on Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
sevenair
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:27 am

tommy1808 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
#solidarity


developing a bit of a victim complex, are we?

best regards
Thomas


Clearly been spending too much time around lefties. You're nobody in the leftosphere without some way of claiming victimhood of some sort.
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:11 pm

sevenair wrote:
Oh dear. How sad.

Busiest February EVER at STN

1.7m pax for Feb = + 4.8%

Cargo up in Feb for 19,477 tonnes = +2.1%

Jet2 and Primera also adding capicity in addition to numerous Ryanair increases since announcing they'll 'pivot away' from the UK.

Domestic flying makes up a tiny % of STN flying, as does non-EU flying. It seems more people than ever before want to travel between the EU and London.

'Oh but we haven't left yet'
'Oh, yes, but without Brexit it would be so much higher'


"Sarcasm, contempt and defiance". That's May's description of Russia's behaviour towards the U.K. today.

Good thing you have Trump, Merkel and Macron on your side. Trump never shies away from criticizing Russian transgressions. Merkel is willing to sacrifice the Russian natural gas supplies that power Germany's economy. And France will forever remain willing to eschew defence industry profits to support Britain.

Oh, wait. You've picked an interesting time to spit in your neighbour's face. And that special transatlantic relationship ... quite a bit of hesitation in DC these days, eh?

Here's a fun piece by a Remoaner in the generally pro-Brexit Spectator:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/t ... urns-cold/

But yeah, nice one about EU traffic at STN. It obviously proves that there is no downside to Brexit.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:15 pm

sevenair wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
#solidarity


developing a bit of a victim complex, are we?

best regards
Thomas


Clearly been spending too much time around lefties. You're nobody in the leftosphere without some way of claiming victimhood of some sort.


Or the rightosphere by the looks of it. The Brexit narrative reeks of brexit voters victimhood at the hands of the EU, global elite, business elites, immigrants, educated people (insert successful group). Like snowflakes the world over, all of the Brexiteer grievances have been caused by someone else.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Well the flip side is that the majority of the 17+ million are old and due to die out shortly so give them a few years and a victory is good to go on a new vote.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:38 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43397798


"If high-paid jobs - and EU citizens, who are well represented among high earners in the UK - relocate elsewhere, the consequences for the Exchequer will be severe," he added.

Given the outlook, the IFS said tax rises of £30bn would be needed each year to retain public spending and balance the budget by the middle of the next decade - a Conservative Party pledge.”
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:46 am

Why do we name countries with such inappropriate names?

Greenland, well we know about that. 1036 years ago viking Eric the Red gave the land an appealing name in order to lure potential settlers. He explained, "people would be attracted to go there if it had a favorable name". And BTW, the official, local name has for 40 years been "Kalaallit Nunaat", which is a lot more appropriate.

Then we once had "German Democratic Republic". Nuf said.

But now we have "United Kingdom". The most divided country in the world. Split almost right in the middle. Where no-one has got any clue what to do with their country.

Supporters of Brexit dismiss their opponents as ivory tower elitists who hate the white working class and refuse to accept a democratic result. Opponents dismiss the anti-Europeans as fools duped by the ‘leave’ campaign’s propaganda, nostalgics and outright racists. So it has gone on for years. No event is too novel and shocking that it cannot be fitted onto the old worn tracks of what passes for debate in this country.

(from https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/t ... urns-cold/ )

Will the next thing be to rename the Netherlands into "New Montana"?
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1647
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:36 am

LTenEleven wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43397798


"If high-paid jobs - and EU citizens, who are well represented among high earners in the UK - relocate elsewhere, the consequences for the Exchequer will be severe," he added.

Given the outlook, the IFS said tax rises of £30bn would be needed each year to retain public spending and balance the budget by the middle of the next decade - a Conservative Party pledge.”


But traffic at STN is up 5%. And QR is going to fly to Cardiff. So there's that.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3036
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:54 am

ElPistolero wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43397798


"If high-paid jobs - and EU citizens, who are well represented among high earners in the UK - relocate elsewhere, the consequences for the Exchequer will be severe," he added.

Given the outlook, the IFS said tax rises of £30bn would be needed each year to retain public spending and balance the budget by the middle of the next decade - a Conservative Party pledge.”


But traffic at STN is up 5%. And QR is going to fly to Cardiff. So there's that.


I'm sure the London - Netherlands market will be busier now that Unilever finally does away with the dual legal structure and chooses to remain Dutch rather than British.

Unilever moves headquarters to Rotterdam after almost 100 years in London
Britain's third largest company had been structured as two legal entities and will now be just one, based in the Netherlands
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 56736.html
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6832
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:45 am

JJJ wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43397798


"If high-paid jobs - and EU citizens, who are well represented among high earners in the UK - relocate elsewhere, the consequences for the Exchequer will be severe," he added.

Given the outlook, the IFS said tax rises of £30bn would be needed each year to retain public spending and balance the budget by the middle of the next decade - a Conservative Party pledge.”


But traffic at STN is up 5%. And QR is going to fly to Cardiff. So there's that.


I'm sure the London - Netherlands market will be busier now that Unilever finally does away with the dual legal structure and chooses to remain Dutch rather than British.

Unilever moves headquarters to Rotterdam after almost 100 years in London
Britain's third largest company had been structured as two legal entities and will now be just one, based in the Netherlands
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 56736.html


Why would it be busier? I can imagine the opposite is true. They have decided to move some of the personnel to Rotterdam, so no need to move people from one headquarters to the other all the time.

Shell is set to take a similar decision. They too have a dual HQ structure and want to simplify things.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
JJJ
Posts: 3036
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:49 am

Dutchy wrote:
JJJ wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:

But traffic at STN is up 5%. And QR is going to fly to Cardiff. So there's that.


I'm sure the London - Netherlands market will be busier now that Unilever finally does away with the dual legal structure and chooses to remain Dutch rather than British.

Unilever moves headquarters to Rotterdam after almost 100 years in London
Britain's third largest company had been structured as two legal entities and will now be just one, based in the Netherlands
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 56736.html


Why would it be busier? I can imagine the opposite is true. They have decided to move some of the personnel to Rotterdam, so no need to move people from one headquarters to the other all the time.


Because Unilever retains major operations (inc. manufacturing) in Britain, some executive meetings will now be held in the Netherlands rather than the UK.

Thus, more air traffic.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 6832
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:59 am

JJJ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
JJJ wrote:

I'm sure the London - Netherlands market will be busier now that Unilever finally does away with the dual legal structure and chooses to remain Dutch rather than British.

Unilever moves headquarters to Rotterdam after almost 100 years in London
Britain's third largest company had been structured as two legal entities and will now be just one, based in the Netherlands
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 56736.html


Why would it be busier? I can imagine the opposite is true. They have decided to move some of the personnel to Rotterdam, so no need to move people from one headquarters to the other all the time.


Because Unilever retains major operations (inc. manufacturing) in Britain, some executive meetings will now be held in the Netherlands rather than the UK.

Thus, more air traffic.


Ah well, we'll see. Probably marginal anyways.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2295
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:01 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/worl ... rance.html

If there is a revote on Brexit, this may be the deciding issue. Brexiters famously lied that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week if voters approved Brexit. Not only is the NHS not getting that, but future budgets may decrease NHS spending as a percent of the GNP over the next 5 years. If health service quality declines much more in the several years after Brexit there will be a revolt - join the EU now.

I have not seen any Tory plan to rebuild the NHS - literally per the article to replace aging hospitals and build more. There is a very serious deficit of beds per 100K population. The UK seems unable to train enough medical personnel to maintain present dis-service, let alone serve everyone. While the US percent of GNP going to medical care is an economic scandal, the UK's 8% is a pathetic catastrophe.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
LTenEleven
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:04 pm

Wasn't Brexit all about taking back control?
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics- ... s-at-dover
 
LJ
Posts: 4572
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:18 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/europe/uk-nhs-france.html

If there is a revote on Brexit, this may be the deciding issue. Brexiters famously lied that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week if voters approved Brexit. Not only is the NHS not getting that, but future budgets may decrease NHS spending as a percent of the GNP over the next 5 years. If health service quality declines much more in the several years after Brexit there will be a revolt - join the EU now.

I have not seen any Tory plan to rebuild the NHS - literally per the article to replace aging hospitals and build more. There is a very serious deficit of beds per 100K population. The UK seems unable to train enough medical personnel to maintain present dis-service, let alone serve everyone. While the US percent of GNP going to medical care is an economic scandal, the UK's 8% is a pathetic catastrophe.


The article highights the main problem with the EU perfectly. People see primatily the bad sides of the EU and don't understand that there is a lot of benefits of being an EU member (though it's far from perfect).
 
LJ
Posts: 4572
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:24 am

LTenEleven wrote:
Wasn't Brexit all about taking back control?
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics- ... s-at-dover


No he wants the EU countries to do the checks (he says that there will be no checks at Dover, not there won't be any checks) :smile:
 
bennett123
Posts: 8165
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:41 am

Why should they?.
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:05 am

He says bullshits as usual.
There are international rules about borders and customs to follow.

But just imagine for a second that the UK tries that trick , it means after the first ship all the followings will be blocked out of the ports while inspections are carried on the continent.

And borders inspections are already time consuming, but if you try to act like a smart ass with the customs, they can be very very obnoxious. In France, at least, customs and border police have very special legal rights.
 
LJ
Posts: 4572
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:19 am

Olddog wrote:
He says bullshits as usual.


Unless the latest UK policy is that it doesn't care what's coming into the country. It will be a smuggler's paradise....
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6832
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:53 am

LJ wrote:
Olddog wrote:
He says bullshits as usual.


Unless the latest UK policy is that it doesn't care what's coming into the country. It will be a smuggler's paradise....


So there you go, so that will not be the case.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LAH1
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:36 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/europe/uk-nhs-france.html

If there is a revote on Brexit, this may be the deciding issue. Brexiters famously lied that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week if voters approved Brexit. Not only is the NHS not getting that, but future budgets may decrease NHS spending as a percent of the GNP over the next 5 years. If health service quality declines much more in the several years after Brexit there will be a revolt - join the EU now.

I have not seen any Tory plan to rebuild the NHS - literally per the article to replace aging hospitals and build more. There is a very serious deficit of beds per 100K population. The UK seems unable to train enough medical personnel to maintain present dis-service, let alone serve everyone. While the US percent of GNP going to medical care is an economic scandal, the UK's 8% is a pathetic catastrophe.


Data from here http://www.health.org.uk/chart-nhs-spen ... gdp-health
gives some info from 2014. I couldn't find more recent.

"New data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show the UK spent 9.8% of its GDP on health in 2014.
This is compared to an average of 9.7% across the other EU-15 countries.
This follows a change in the way the OECD defines health spending, meaning more social and long-term care is included in the calculation."
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2295
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:49 pm

LAH1 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/europe/uk-nhs-france.html

If there is a revote on Brexit, this may be the deciding issue. Brexiters famously lied that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week if voters approved Brexit. Not only is the NHS not getting that, but future budgets may decrease NHS spending as a percent of the GNP over the next 5 years. If health service quality declines much more in the several years after Brexit there will be a revolt - join the EU now.

I have not seen any Tory plan to rebuild the NHS - literally per the article to replace aging hospitals and build more. There is a very serious deficit of beds per 100K population. The UK seems unable to train enough medical personnel to maintain present dis-service, let alone serve everyone. While the US percent of GNP going to medical care is an economic scandal, the UK's 8% is a pathetic catastrophe.


Data from here http://www.health.org.uk/chart-nhs-spen ... gdp-health
gives some info from 2014. I couldn't find more recent.

"New data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show the UK spent 9.8% of its GDP on health in 2014.
This is compared to an average of 9.7% across the other EU-15 countries.
This follows a change in the way the OECD defines health spending, meaning more social and long-term care is included in the calculation."


While your numbers may be correct I suspect they are seriously misleading. Is the NHS so much more inefficient than other EU nations that all that money is not coming close to provide the satisfaction that most Europeans have with their medical system. I doubt it. And this does not answer why the UK cannot educate doctors, surgeons, nurses, technitions for that job. These are all good paying professions, and surely UKers are smart enough to do them.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
sevenair
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:56 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/europe/uk-nhs-france.html

If there is a revote on Brexit, this may be the deciding issue. Brexiters famously lied that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week if voters approved Brexit. Not only is the NHS not getting that, but future budgets may decrease NHS spending as a percent of the GNP over the next 5 years. If health service quality declines much more in the several years after Brexit there will be a revolt - join the EU now.

I have not seen any Tory plan to rebuild the NHS - literally per the article to replace aging hospitals and build more. There is a very serious deficit of beds per 100K population. The UK seems unable to train enough medical personnel to maintain present dis-service, let alone serve everyone. While the US percent of GNP going to medical care is an economic scandal, the UK's 8% is a pathetic catastrophe.


The NHS has nothing to do with the EU and was founded long before the EU came into existence. The NHS has increased recruitment from EU nationals despite remoaners claiming that they’d all leave and despite the NHS having many employees from throughout the globe and seemingly incapable of understanding that there’s a big wide world out there outside of the failing bloc.

So on one hand you’re moaning about brexiteers ‘promising’ (despite no promise being made whatsoever) more money from the NHS and at the same time implying that the EU will need to save the NHS!

Comrade, if you want to see how labour handles the NHS let’s look back to 2010 and before and let’s look over the Welsh border to see how they’re doing. Let us not forget, brother, that it was Labour who allowed the NHS to be crippled by PFI, who are responsible for 2/3 of all NHS privatisation and who allowed Mid Staffs to happen.

The NHS is over funded & must change from within to deliver better value. Or perhaps they should shut the whole thing. It’s infested with lefties who are out of touch and too keen to waste other people’s money.
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2723
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:04 pm

Despite Brexit:

https://www.internationalairportreview. ... ve-growth/

Just over a year until Independence Day. I suppose we best get the best use of our passports and stock up on cheap fags before we need a visa and will need to pay to go to the EU. Oh that’s after our planes have all been grounded too!
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
LJ
Posts: 4572
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:33 pm

sevenair wrote:
Despite Brexit:

https://www.internationalairportreview. ... ve-growth/

Just over a year until Independence Day. I suppose we best get the best use of our passports and stock up on cheap fags before we need a visa and will need to pay to go to the EU. Oh that’s after our planes have all been grounded too!


The same can be said for almost any airport within the EU. Moreover, who's talking about visas for UK citizens? Everybody knows that that won't happen.

One can also look at housing prices in London. Yet, is it Brexit or just an ordinary correction? Nobody knows as there still is no Brexit and thus the consequences of Brexit are still not visible. However, we do know that the uncertainty is growing and that decision time for the corporate world is aproaching. This means that anyone has to prepare for he worst case scenario for its company. The positive thing is that it ensures that some people have a job. The negative thing is that companies have to incur costs (or at least spend time which could be spend productively on other things).

BTW how many customs officials is the UK hiring at moment?
 
LAH1
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:43 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
LAH1 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/europe/uk-nhs-france.html

If there is a revote on Brexit, this may be the deciding issue. Brexiters famously lied that the NHS would get 350 million pounds a week if voters approved Brexit. Not only is the NHS not getting that, but future budgets may decrease NHS spending as a percent of the GNP over the next 5 years. If health service quality declines much more in the several years after Brexit there will be a revolt - join the EU now.

I have not seen any Tory plan to rebuild the NHS - literally per the article to replace aging hospitals and build more. There is a very serious deficit of beds per 100K population. The UK seems unable to train enough medical personnel to maintain present dis-service, let alone serve everyone. While the US percent of GNP going to medical care is an economic scandal, the UK's 8% is a pathetic catastrophe.


Data from here http://www.health.org.uk/chart-nhs-spen ... gdp-health
gives some info from 2014. I couldn't find more recent.

"New data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show the UK spent 9.8% of its GDP on health in 2014.
This is compared to an average of 9.7% across the other EU-15 countries.
This follows a change in the way the OECD defines health spending, meaning more social and long-term care is included in the calculation."


While your numbers may be correct I suspect they are seriously misleading. Is the NHS so much more inefficient than other EU nations that all that money is not coming close to provide the satisfaction that most Europeans have with their medical system. I doubt it. And this does not answer why the UK cannot educate doctors, surgeons, nurses, technitions for that job. These are all good paying professions, and surely UKers are smart enough to do them.


http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publica ... ror-mirror

The above link shows that next to 11 countries world wide and EU the UK NHS came out 1st in 9 out of 12 categories with the UK and Sweden being the most efficient. I apologise for not being able to copy the chart but the link should work. It does rather point to your comments being rather less than correct in many areas.
 
LJ
Posts: 4572
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:17 pm

LAH1 wrote:
The above link shows that next to 11 countries world wide and EU the UK NHS came out 1st in 9 out of 12 categories with the UK and Sweden being the most efficient. I apologise for not being able to copy the chart but the link should work. It does rather point to your comments being rather less than correct in many areas.


Yet you fail to mention that the UK is number 10 out of 11 when it comes to the category "Health care Outcomes". It all depends on how you define a good health care system.
 
LAH1
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:52 pm

LJ wrote:
LAH1 wrote:
The above link shows that next to 11 countries world wide and EU the UK NHS came out 1st in 9 out of 12 categories with the UK and Sweden being the most efficient. I apologise for not being able to copy the chart but the link should work. It does rather point to your comments being rather less than correct in many areas.


Yet you fail to mention that the UK is number 10 out of 11 when it comes to the category "Health care Outcomes". It all depends on how you define a good health care system.


True, I admit I wasn't at all sure what exactly that meant or covered. But I didn't fail to mention the 9 out of 12 "firsts" which seemed to be overlooked by other posters.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 10579
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:28 pm

I have limited experience with the NHS, I used it once to get surgical staples removed from my scalp : I had gotten injured in France and needed them removed while visiting the UK. There was no problem to see a doctor at some kind of small free clinic, however the tools they had for removing staples were not compatible with the French stuff I had on the head, so it got a bit painful. Probably a metric vs imperial issue.

Not really a reason to complain. The issue discussed in the article above is often heard, though. Is it not true that elective surgeries are done after long delays ?
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