ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 793
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:16 pm

Any bets on another general election? I'm thinking it's pretty even odds right now.

Anyways, this is why you sort this s**t out before you invoke the unrevokable. Make sure everyone is on the same page. What a shambles.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:17 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Boris Johnson has gone missing, was due at a Western Balkans summit in London, but has not turned up... is apparently still considering his position and whether to resign (i.e. can he use this as an opportunity to further his own career / similar decision process as in 2016)


He has now resigned.

The rebellion is underway.

I give Theresa May 48 hours.
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ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:25 pm

PanHAM wrote:
The end of Brexit, welcome back mates.

It will save the UK from a lot of troubles.


If this results in another election there'll be no time to do any negotiations. And given it will be "Red White and Blue Brexit" May, Boris "Bozo" Johnson, or "Comrade EU Sceptic" Corbyn there's no way a staying in deal will be done.

Currently the situation is 100% FUBAR.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:25 pm

The end of Brexit, welcome back mates.

It will save the UK from a lot of troubles.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:31 pm

PanHAM wrote:
The end of Brexit, welcome back mates.

It will save the UK from a lot of troubles.


Its the complete opposite. A no deal brexit.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Arion640 wrote:
The rebellion is underway.

I give Theresa May 48 hours.


Be very careful what you wish for.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:33 pm

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
The rebellion is underway.

I give Theresa May 48 hours.


Be very careful what you wish for.



:rotfl: :checkmark:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:38 pm

Arion640 wrote:
I give Theresa May 48 hours.


If that would happen there would be chaos. Odly, the chances of a hard Brexit will increase should May resign, something Davis and Johnson would prefer. In the end, those favouring a hard Brexit only have to prevent the UK of getting a deal with the EU. Creating enough chaos on crucial points in the process would generate the desired outcome (for pro-Brexit).
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:46 pm

LJ wrote:
If that would happen there would be chaos.


yes, but then again, it is chaos now, so what is the difference?
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ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:12 pm

Arion640 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
The end of Brexit, welcome back mates.

It will save the UK from a lot of troubles.


Its the complete opposite. A no deal brexit.


Game that out for us.

The way I see it, most Tory MPs are remainers and probably won't support a leadership challenge. Is that an accurate assessment? Are the numbers there for a hard Brexiteer to unseat May? I may well be wrong (indeed probably am), but I don't see these resignations amounting to a full rebellion anytime soon.

We know that a soft-ish Brexit is now the favoured option. With two major cabinet proponents of a hard Brexit gone, further concessions are more likely than a no-deal Brexit. I just really don't see a no- deal happening. I don't think there's sufficient appetite for it - fringe elements notwithstanding. I suspect the majority of the population is just plain tired of it all, and won't care about the difference between a "real" Brexit and a BRINO.
 
vfw614
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Johnson and Davies are cheapskates. They were too mean to pay for a minicab from Chequers and so stayed on for two more days to be able to be chauffeured home with taxpayer's money....

The folks in Brussels must be shaking their heads in disbelief.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
The rebellion is underway.

I give Theresa May 48 hours.


Be very careful what you wish for.


You’ve done it again. I’ve made an observation and you’ve then said that is what i want to happen.
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:14 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
The end of Brexit, welcome back mates.

It will save the UK from a lot of troubles.


Its the complete opposite. A no deal brexit.


Game that out for us.

The way I see it, most Tory MPs are remainers and probably won't support a leadership challenge. Is that an accurate assessment? Are the numbers there for a hard Brexiteer to unseat May? I may well be wrong (indeed probably am), but I don't see these resignations amounting to a full rebellion anytime soon.

We know that a soft-ish Brexit is now the favoured option. With two major cabinet proponents of a hard Brexit gone, further concessions are more likely than a no-deal Brexit. I just really don't see a no- deal happening. I don't think there's sufficient appetite for it - fringe elements notwithstanding. I suspect the majority of the population is just plain tired of it all, and won't care about the difference between a "real" Brexit and a BRINO.


Apparently the 1922 committee is six signatures away from being able to trigger the Vote of no confidence needed. This was before Johnson, Davis and the other junior ministers resigned. We may be nearly there.
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:14 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
The end of Brexit, welcome back mates.

It will save the UK from a lot of troubles.


Its the complete opposite. A no deal brexit.


Game that out for us.

The way I see it, most Tory MPs are remainers and probably won't support a leadership challenge. Is that an accurate assessment? Are the numbers there for a hard Brexiteer to unseat May? I may well be wrong (indeed probably am), but I don't see these resignations amounting to a full rebellion anytime soon.

We know that a soft-ish Brexit is now the favoured option. With two major cabinet proponents of a hard Brexit gone, further concessions are more likely than a no-deal Brexit. I just really don't see a no- deal happening. I don't think there's sufficient appetite for it - fringe elements notwithstanding. I suspect the majority of the population is just plain tired of it all, and won't care about the difference between a "real" Brexit and a BRINO.


Apparently the 1922 committee is six signatures away from being able to trigger the Vote of no confidence needed. This was before Johnson, Davis and the other junior ministers resigned. We may be nearly there.

I’m surprised andrea leadson has not gone, she was always a hard line brexiteer.

You should be concerned with this anyway, don’t forget Britain is Canadas motherland.
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prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:19 pm

LJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
I give Theresa May 48 hours.


If that would happen there would be chaos.

Nah, chaos is what has ruled Britain during the last two years. This is a meltdown.

No functioning UK government, and not one single competent person who would dream about risking to change that. That's a meltdown.
Last edited by prebennorholm on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:23 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Apparently the 1922 committee is six signatures away from being able to trigger the Vote of no confidence needed. This was before Johnson, Davis and the other junior ministers resigned. We may be nearly there.

I’m surprised andrea leadson has not gone, she was always a hard line brexiteer.

You should be concerned with this anyway, don’t forget Britain is Canadas motherland.


But the EU does not care who is your PM. The rules will not change for your next crazy leader....
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:33 pm

Arion640 wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

Its the complete opposite. A no deal brexit.


Game that out for us.

The way I see it, most Tory MPs are remainers and probably won't support a leadership challenge. Is that an accurate assessment? Are the numbers there for a hard Brexiteer to unseat May? I may well be wrong (indeed probably am), but I don't see these resignations amounting to a full rebellion anytime soon.

We know that a soft-ish Brexit is now the favoured option. With two major cabinet proponents of a hard Brexit gone, further concessions are more likely than a no-deal Brexit. I just really don't see a no- deal happening. I don't think there's sufficient appetite for it - fringe elements notwithstanding. I suspect the majority of the population is just plain tired of it all, and won't care about the difference between a "real" Brexit and a BRINO.


Apparently the 1922 committee is six signatures away from being able to trigger the Vote of no confidence needed. This was before Johnson, Davis and the other junior ministers resigned. We may be nearly there.

I’m surprised andrea leadson has not gone, she was always a hard line brexiteer.

You should be concerned with this anyway, don’t forget Britain is Canadas motherland.


Triggering a vote of no confidence and actually winning that vote of no confidence are two separate things, are they not? Leadsom next? What about Fox?

Which of her potential replacements is capable of winning the committees' support?

Don't worry about Canada. We'll always be friendly. Even if we occasionally point at you and laugh. Like right now.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:44 pm

ElPistolero"Triggering a vote of no confidence and actually winning that vote of no confidence are two separate things, are they not? Leadsom next? What about Fox?[/quote]

Yet it would consume valuable time for May and May doesn't have much time left to negotiate a deal. Pro-Brexit can try to delay the process as much as they can as the end result of a delay could be a "no deal" situation.

[quote="ElPistolero wrote:
Which of her potential replacements is capable of winning the committees' support?


Which is irrelevant if you're pro-Brexit. As long as the chaos continues, they're fine.

BTW May also needs to consider the fact that she doesn't have big majority in Parliament. Thus those pro-Brexit beck benchers can use that as well.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:49 pm

Olddog wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Apparently the 1922 committee is six signatures away from being able to trigger the Vote of no confidence needed. This was before Johnson, Davis and the other junior ministers resigned. We may be nearly there.

I’m surprised andrea leadson has not gone, she was always a hard line brexiteer.

You should be concerned with this anyway, don’t forget Britain is Canadas motherland.


But the EU does not care who is your PM. The rules will not change for your next crazy leader....


No of course they don’t. But you can’t deliver something which isn’t brexit, like Theresa May wants to do.
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PanHAM
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:23 pm

It is about time to pull the emergency brake, before Millions of voters will find out the hard way what they have actually voted for.

The UK is by far too deep connected in the single market, the Country cannot just Switch off the System from one day to the next without creating the biggest chaos Europe has seen since the war (sorry that I had to mention the war :-) ). And it is not about duties, it is about entering EU goods imported from member states into the UK VAT System. All it Needs now is entering the vendors and the buyers VAT numbers in the invoice and send a monthly Statement to the VAT Office of their Country. No Need to stop at the borders, checks will be made by the Inland Revenue randomly.

I am sure that this would be part of the soft brexit. The alternate would be to make a customs declaration at the border or at the local customs Office, which don't exist in the required strenght any longer since the introduction of the single market..

The result would be trucks backing up to the Midlands and across Belgium and France on the other side of the Tunnel. But what really would hurt the People would be empty shelves at the shops within days.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:02 pm

Then British products will fill the shelves.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:07 pm

Prior to the Brexit vote, the remain advocates said that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if Brexit passed. That didn't happen.

When those types of predictions are so spectacularly wrong, it is hard to believe that "there will be nothing on the shelves."
 
2122M
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:35 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Prior to the Brexit vote, the remain advocates said that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if Brexit passed. That didn't happen.

When those types of predictions are so spectacularly wrong, it is hard to believe that "there will be nothing on the shelves."


Brexit hasn't happened yet. And with a long list of companies telling shareholders they will leave the UK under a hard or unfavorable brexit, you should reserve you're judgment until this whole thing shakes out.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:41 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Prior to the Brexit vote, the remain advocates said that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if Brexit passed. That didn't happen.

When those types of predictions are so spectacularly wrong, it is hard to believe that "there will be nothing on the shelves."


Brexit hasn't happened yet. And with a long list of companies telling shareholders they will leave the UK under a hard or unfavorable brexit, you should reserve you're judgment until this whole thing shakes out.

I understand that Brexit has not happened yet. I also understand that the Remain advocates said that a vote for Brexit would, in and of itself, cause financial collapse.

Those predictions were simply wrong, as evidenced here:
https://www.economist.com/the-economist ... rexit-vote
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:02 pm

ElPistolero wrote:

Don't worry about Canada. We'll always be friendly. Even if we occasionally point at you and laugh. Like right now.


Or is it just you in front of a keyboard?
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PanHAM
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:03 pm

seahawk wrote:
Then British products will fill the shelves.


That is about as smart as Marie Antoinette replying "then why don't they eat cake"
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2122M
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:12 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Prior to the Brexit vote, the remain advocates said that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if Brexit passed. That didn't happen.

When those types of predictions are so spectacularly wrong, it is hard to believe that "there will be nothing on the shelves."


Brexit hasn't happened yet. And with a long list of companies telling shareholders they will leave the UK under a hard or unfavorable brexit, you should reserve you're judgment until this whole thing shakes out.

I understand that Brexit has not happened yet. I also understand that the Remain advocates said that a vote for Brexit would, in and of itself, cause financial collapse.

Those predictions were simply wrong, as evidenced here:
https://www.economist.com/the-economist ... rexit-vote


Basically, that article says that the predictions have not come to fruition.... yet. And that the UK's economy has underperformed compared to the rest of the world in this global growth spurt.

But I understand that conservatives are eager to 'gloat' about a short term victory, even if it is just a perceived victory like the North Korea summit or this underperforming-but-not-tanking UK economy. This way they can claim success and then blame the long term failure on something else.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:19 pm

So essentially the pound should be up and the market's soaring, with the demise of the hard line Brexiter's, the way is now open for the remain faction to lead the country into a new era of prosperity.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:21 pm

2122M wrote:
Basically, that article says that the predictions have not come to fruition.... yet.

Correct. And I saw scores of predictions that said they would have come to fruition by now.

Is anyone really contesting that the remain camp overplayed the economic impact card?
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:30 pm

Arion640 wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:

Don't worry about Canada. We'll always be friendly. Even if we occasionally point at you and laugh. Like right now.


Or is it just you in front of a keyboard?


Maybe. Maybe not.

https://mobile.twitter.com/acoyne/statu ... 9804968960
 
2122M
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:40 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
Basically, that article says that the predictions have not come to fruition.... yet.

Correct. And I saw scores of predictions that said they would have come to fruition by now.

Is anyone really contesting that the remain camp overplayed the economic impact card?


Doesn't every political party exaggerate predictions, facts, theories and everything? Forget politics, the same is true in any kind of negotiation. I'm sure Leavers were predicting an economic boom and free puppies for everyone if the Leave vote won and that hasn't happened either. As is almost always the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle and takes time to be known. My point is, I wouldn't dismiss anyone that predicted a rough economic go of things due to Brexit, as it still has a good chance of playing out that way.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:32 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Prior to the Brexit vote, the remain advocates said that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if Brexit passed. That didn't happen.

When those types of predictions are so spectacularly wrong, it is hard to believe that "there will be nothing on the shelves."



1) The Bank of England Emergency Measure post referendum: Lowered interest rates to 0.25% to help the economy
2) The Bank of England Emergency Measure post referendum: restarted Quantitative Easing, with a further £70bn capital deployed, pumping cash into the economy.
3) Brexit has not happened yet
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:40 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Is anyone really contesting that the remain camp overplayed the economic impact card?


The timing yes, the impact no.

just look at the recent warnings of hard brexit on aerospace, motor industry, financial sector. The Chamber of British Commerce has described how parts of british manufacturing industry will be "at risk of extinction" post Brexit.

There is precious little good news coming from anywhere on Brexit outcomes, except of course from certain Brexit politicians who are still promising the undeliverable.
 
Kestrel333
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:50 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Is anyone really contesting that the remain camp overplayed the economic impact card?


If we’re talking about overplaying things, let’s not forget the Leave camp!

First item on in the list: the ease with which we would leave the EU.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:17 pm

Kestrel333 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Is anyone really contesting that the remain camp overplayed the economic impact card?


If we’re talking about overplaying things, let’s not forget the Leave camp!

First item on in the list: the ease with which we would leave the EU.


"easiest trade deal in history" they said,
"they need us more than we need them" they said
"no one is talking about losing access to the single market" they said
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:19 pm

What a mess... that’s why I am not a fan of public ballots.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:19 pm

Richard28 wrote:
just look at the recent warnings of hard brexit on aerospace, motor industry, financial sector. The Chamber of British Commerce has described how parts of british manufacturing industry will be "at risk of extinction" post Brexit.

....after the Thatcher years, is there really any british manufacturing industry left, thought it was all sold off.....
which does indicate why the UK has to stay in the EU....
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:22 pm

par13del wrote:
[
....after the Thatcher years, is there really any british manufacturing industry left, thought it was all sold off.....
which does indicate why the UK has to stay in the EU....


We had done well bringing some manufacturing back, but this was largely under the auspices of access to the single market and of course no customs, so who knows what will happen next, but it won't be positive thats for sure.

In addition, 80% off our economy is services, which interestingly enough the conservatives are quite happy to leave out of any trade deal with the EU.

Thats what happens when you have crazy ideologues with crazy red lines.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:29 pm

N14AZ wrote:
What a mess... that’s why I am not a fan of public ballots.


So not a fan of democracy of then?
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:32 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Remember that EFTA is also not part of the customs union, so the Northern Ireland issue would not have been solved through membership


How does the Customs Union solve the Irish border issue?

It doesn't. This is why you can find pictures from after the CU was established in the late 1960s showing trucks being stopped at the border between places like Germany and the Netherlands.

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86842

Richard28 wrote:

No, the peoples vote campaign is to either accept the outcome of negotiations or reject them and stay in the EU.


So what happens if you reject them and the EU says no to revoking A50 anyway?

Let's hope it isn't another one of these "advisory" referendums.

Richard28 wrote:
[

No, the UK, within the EU, can exercise a veto on areas of foreign affairs, taxation, justice and the EU budget, although other areas need a qualifying majority.


Ahhhh but that's not quite what you said. You said:

Richard28 wrote:
Steve Baker MP, who resigned as David Davis’s deputy at the Brexit department, says he quit because he thinks Theresa May’s Brexit plan will not give parliament enough freedom to reject EU laws.

Does he not realise that this is exactly what we had whilst members of the EU?



Now tell me again, how does the British Parliament reject an EU directive that's already been passed by the European Parliament and which has become part of the EU's body of law?
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:50 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
How does the Customs Union solve the Irish border issue?


in isolation it doesn't. Both Single Market membership and customs union will be needed to ensure no hard border in Northern Ireland.

From an historical perspective there has been common travel area between UK and Ireland, which dates back far before all this to 1923. This had negated the need for a hard border, other than of course for security reasons during the troubles.

Divergence of legislation (i.e. not in SM) and lack of customs agreements post Brexit will however mean that a border of some sort would need to be put in place. This is why the UK have been wasting time discussing Max Fac and "customs partnerships" (which don't solve the border problem and are not agreeable to the EU anyhow)

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
So what happens if you reject them and the EU says no to revoking A50 anyway?

Let's hope it isn't another one of these "advisory" referendums.


The EU have been on record as saying they don't want us to leave and would welcome us back. The author of Article 50 has also said that is revokable, as it merely expresses an intention - but there are other views and nothing is of course certain from a legal perspective. But all the more reason to have this say before March 2019, as it is at least a clearer legal position than after it.

UltimoTiger777 wrote:

Now tell me again, how does the British Parliament reject an EU directive that's already been passed by the European Parliament and which has become part of the EU's body of law?


I'm talking about the British democratic elected representatives of the European parliament (MEPs) who currently have those powers, to have a say in new European legislation. These powers will of course be lost on leaving the EU.

I am not talking about revoking EU laws once they have been passed and already in force.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 pm

Arion640 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
What a mess... that’s why I am not a fan of public ballots.


So not a fan of democracy of then?


Democracy is a system to elect representatives. The dictatorship of the opinion of 50%+1 is far from democracy. But hey, it's an easy flag to throw, isn't it?
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:04 pm

Arion640 wrote:

So not a fan of democracy of then?


Remind me again - who called referendums "a device of dictators and demagogues"?

Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher who said that? Let me guess: you think she wasn't a fan of democracy either.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Arion640 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
What a mess... that’s why I am not a fan of public ballots.


So not a fan of democracy of then?

The Brexit referendum had nothing with democracy to do. To be democratic, a public ballot has to be the choise between two defined alternatives. Brexit had one defined alternative and a red bus.

Ask the Swiss how public ballots must be prepared to be democratic.
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ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:07 pm

par13del wrote:
....after the Thatcher years, is there really any british manufacturing industry left, thought it was all sold off.....
which does indicate why the UK has to stay in the EU....


No. Just a bunch of folk sitting around in JLR/Nissan/Airbus/RR factories, watching Eastenders.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:15 pm

Arion640 wrote:
No of course they don’t. But you can’t deliver something which isn’t brexit, like Theresa May wants to do.


So what happens if TM prevails and is about to deliver something you don't think is Brexit. Presumably, you'd like a vote to decide if it should go ahead or not? :scratchchin:

Arion640 wrote:
So not a fan of democracy of then?


So what do we have the rest of the time, you know when we don't get a referendum on every decision? Nice strawman argument.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:27 pm

Richard28 wrote:
The EU have been on record as saying they don't want us to leave and would welcome us back. The author of Article 50 has also said that is revokable, as it merely expresses an intention - but there are other views and nothing is of course certain from a legal perspective. But all the more reason to have this say before March 2019, as it is at least a clearer legal position than after it.


Donald Tusk was also clearly of the view that the UK could revoke Article 50 at any point before 29th March 2019.
But European Council President Donald Tusk has said that he believes Article 50 can be reversed.

When asked if the UK could unilaterally withdraw its Article 50 notification during the next two years, he said, "Formally, legally, yes."
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:39 pm

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
No of course they don’t. But you can’t deliver something which isn’t brexit, like Theresa May wants to do.


So what happens if TM prevails and is about to deliver something you don't think is Brexit. Presumably, you'd like a vote to decide if it should go ahead or not? :scratchchin:

Arion640 wrote:
So not a fan of democracy of then?


So what do we have the rest of the time, you know when we don't get a referendum on every decision? Nice strawman argument.


You’re right. I would like a vote on if it can go ahead or not, but the alternative can not be staying in the European Union. If the Public rejects it, it’s back to negotiating until we can find acceptable terms.

Ahh right, so your logic is it’s not democratic to have a referendum? 2 years after the vote has passed and still there’s so many sour grapes.

I’m sure if it was a remain vote and I was complaining leave had lost you would be one of the first to point out it was democracy, will of the people etc, hypocrisy at it’s best.
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ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:34 am

Looks like some Leavers are getting unhinged. John Longworth, the Leave Means Leave/Vote Leave Business Council co-chair has put up a remarkable article on Brexit Central. Aside from the vitriol, he's conjured up this gem:

"By the 2040s, half of the population of the UK will be modern migrants or the children of migrants. The greatest invasion since Neolithic times. Then no doubt we will be forced to vote to return to the suzerainty of Project Europa, with an automatic majority in favour."

https://brexitcentral.com/i-fear-govern ... uperstate/

I guess the mask has finally slipped. The Leave Means Leave/Vote Lave Business co-chair believes that the British-born and -raised children of immigrants aren't really ...errr....British - they're invaders!

I wonder if he lumps the Home Secretary in that category. Or Priti Patel. Or, given the vitriol he directs towards Germany, Gisela Stuart? Invaders all?
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit EU position Phase 2

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:55 am

ElPistolero wrote:
https://brexitcentral.com/i-fear-government-will-allow-uk-become-permanent-satellite-new-european-superstate/

I guess the mask has finally slipped.....

Yeah, but let's also look at the bright side of it. After years of eastward mudslinging over the Channel..... Practically overnight that mudslinging has become a domestic issue only. Fantastic! Fantastic for we EU27'ers.

Now we can fairly peacefully wait it out, and at least 29 March isn't so far away, :champagne:
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