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Revelation
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NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:22 pm

http://www.nhangle.com/article/20180202 ... /180209857

The defense:

The court heard arguments in an appeal by three women convicted last year of violating a Laconia city ordinance by sunbathing topless at Weirs Beach.

Heidi Lilley of Gilford, Kia Sinclair of Danbury and Ginger Pierro of Canaan are supporters of the “Free the Nipple” movement, contending that laws that only ban exposing female breasts are discriminatory.

Their lawyer, Daniel Hynes, told the court that the city of Laconia “has criminalized being female.”


The prosecution:

Susan McGinnis from the Attorney General’s office, who presented the state’s case, said it’s “a matter of public safety and morals.”

She noted that state laws distinguish between male and female breasts when it comes to sexual assault, public decency and privacy. “Those statues give women protections that they don’t give to men because they define women’s nipples as sexual or intimate parts and do not do so for men,” she said.

“Harassment and sexual assault increase when women are topless, and therefore there’s a public safety issue involved, in order to protect women,” McGinnis said, adding that such incidents “increase exponentially” during Motorcycle Week in Laconia.


So, one group of females feels legally repressed because they can't go topless on a public beach without getting a citation, another wants extra legal protections because female breasts are considered to be sexual body parts and male breasts aren't.

Touchy subject, says I...
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einsteinboricua
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:47 pm

The court should strike down the law but shield any individual from prosecution. The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior.

To give an example: a friend of mine would dress in a provocative way. She would complain how old men would stare at her and how she felt objectified by them. I confronted her and said the only reason she was complaining is because of their age because if the men were around her age and attractive, she'd be more than happy.

Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless. If she wants to put out her breasts to lactate, I'd be fine with it. If a woman wants to sunbathe topless, by all means. But don't go to the police and file a complaint if there are vultures peering at you.
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mad99
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:53 pm

if the nipple is freed you're gonna get all types, not just the good ones.
Here in Spain it's tits out at the beach and some things are better left unseen
 
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mbmbos
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:01 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
The court should strike down the law but shield any individual from prosecution. The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior.

To give an example: a friend of mine would dress in a provocative way. She would complain how old men would stare at her and how she felt objectified by them. I confronted her and said the only reason she was complaining is because of their age because if the men were around her age and attractive, she'd be more than happy.

Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless. If she wants to put out her breasts to lactate, I'd be fine with it. If a woman wants to sunbathe topless, by all means. But don't go to the police and file a complaint if there are vultures peering at you.



What a load of misogynist tripe.

"The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior."

Really? Do you have any evidence of this or is this what your mind tells you?

"Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless."

So, the sight of a naked woman skeeves you out? You give gay men everywhere a bad name. I'm gay and I'm appalled that a man claiming to be gay would come out here and basically serve up a version of the "she had it coming" trope. It's really disappointing.
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scbriml
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:06 pm

Revelation wrote:
Touchy subject, says I...


Well played, Sir! :lol:

I'm slightly surprised they haven't played the "Freedom of Speech" card.

I'm constantly amused by how uptight some Americans can be about an exposed tit. Seemingly endless gun violence? No problem. Porn capital of the World? No problem. Sunbathing topless? OMG, call the police!

mad99 wrote:
if the nipple is freed you're gonna get all types, not just the good ones.
Here in Spain it's tits out at the beach and some things are better left unseen


In all aspects of life, one has to take the rough with the smooth. :wink2:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
WIederling
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:16 pm

Dumb law.
Dumb militant activists.

What I once found rather interesting in the anglo saxon legal systems was that
a Jury can vote guilty, not guilty _and_ " applied law is defective": not guilty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
much too sparingly used apparently.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:46 pm

mbmbos wrote:
Really? Do you have any evidence of this or is this what your mind tells you?

I just posted an example of a friend way back when we were in college. And that was just an outfit situation.

mbmbos wrote:
So, the sight of a naked woman skeeves you out?

I didn't say that. And I like how you conveniently left out the rest of the sentence where to me it makes no difference (which means they can be topless anywhere for all I care). In other words, I'm not aroused by the sight of breasts.

mbmbos wrote:
You give gay men everywhere a bad name. I'm gay and I'm appalled that a man claiming to be gay would come out here and basically serve up a version of the "she had it coming" trope. It's really disappointing.

There are worse things that give gay men a bad name. Merely stating an opinion along the lines of "can't have your cake and eat it too" hardly gives gay men a bad name (and it's something I'm entitled to as well).

So what's your social justice warrior action in such a case? Let them sunbathe topless AND be able to denounce every pair of eyes that looks below their face and does not belong to a guy they find appealing?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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mbmbos
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:05 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
So what's your social justice warrior action in such a case? Let them sunbathe topless AND be able to denounce every pair of eyes that looks below their face and does not belong to a guy they find appealing?


Wow! First you start with a snarky insult ("social justice warrior"). Then you pivot to "what's a guy to do?"

Can't we expect better behavior from men? Is it really that unimaginable that a man can be expected to act like an adult and not publicly ogle and drool at every woman who walks by?
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
af773atmsp
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:21 pm

mbmbos wrote:
Is it really that unimaginable that a man can be expected to act like an adult and not publicly ogle and drool at every woman who walks by?


In a perfect world its possible. Sadly this world is far from perfect and never will be perfect.
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Super80Fan
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:25 pm

Law is stupid and so are the protesters. Most of the people who are "freeing the nipple" are women who have small/non-existent boobs. I've spoken with many females some very staunch feminists, and they would never go bra-less because it hurts them having no support.
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flyingturtle
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:26 pm

As the female nipples seem to be the problem, why can't they just print out some male nipples to cover them?

I don't understand this issue at all.


David
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einsteinboricua
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:30 pm

mbmbos wrote:
Can't we expect better behavior from men? Is it really that unimaginable that a man can be expected to act like an adult and not publicly ogle and drool at every woman who walks by?

Absolutely. I agree with that. I wish the world were full of men that knew how to conduct themselves in such a scenario. But the world is not an ideal one so until such a time comes, you gotta prepare for both the good and the bad and be ready to deal with both of them.

I remember back in college, a friend of mine ran a business close to where I was renting. I'd visit the store every day. She gave birth and after recovering from labor, she came back to work and came with the baby. One afternoon I walked in and she was breastfeeding him, while her mother immediately shrieked and told her to cover up (old fashion woman). She, however, didn't care and while she did cover up, she seemed annoyed at her mother. The next day I told her that I didn't mind if she was breastfeeding and that I wasn't gonna look her way while she did anyway. She apologized for her mother's reaction.

There are righteous men everywhere. I have no doubt about that. But unfortunately, it's the few sickos who give men a bad name. Again...go topless; free the tatas. But don't expect everyone to pretend that there's no there there when it's not a common sight unless you're in a place where nudity is a must.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Revelation
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:48 pm

mbmbos wrote:
Can't we expect better behavior from men? Is it really that unimaginable that a man can be expected to act like an adult and not publicly ogle and drool at every woman who walks by?

The state claims otherwise:

“Harassment and sexual assault increase when women are topless, and therefore there’s a public safety issue involved, in order to protect women,” McGinnis said, adding that such incidents “increase exponentially” during Motorcycle Week in Laconia.

... although to be fair it might be true that such harassment/assault is coming from badly behaved women too ....

I know a female 'exotic dancer' and she tells me female clients are worse then men when it comes to inappropriate behavior...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
WIederling
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
cited:
“Harassment and sexual assault increase when women are topless, and therefore there’s a public safety issue involved, in order to protect women,” McGinnis said, adding that such incidents “increase exponentially” during Motorcycle Week in Laconia.



So much bull.
go to any Nudie beach in Germany ( or elsewhere ) and look out for the wet tracks of women
overwhelmed and dragged behind some bushes by males in instant rut.

You won't find any.

More like courage from a bottle. Independent of clothing or aesthetic status.

Aussie motorcycle mag monthly cartoon from way back when ... :
Two lassies looking at a "Stilleben" of some fleshy, hairy inverted single nipple droopy bellied bikers having their Nth beer:
" I know why they don't do wet t-Shirt contests with the guys!
Last edited by WIederling on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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WIederling
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:08 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
As the female nipples seem to be the problem, why can't they just print out some male nipples to cover them?


Mhh, male nipple imitation pasties. Super. You should go capitalist on this.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Revelation
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:13 pm

scbriml wrote:
I'm constantly amused by how uptight some Americans can be about an exposed tit. Seemingly endless gun violence? No problem. Porn capital of the World? No problem. Sunbathing topless? OMG, call the police!

There might be linkage. Quite often it's the prudes that are the closet pervs, and the prudishness is a reaction to the perversion.

Another USAism: Protect the unborn child, but once it's out of the womb, good luck kid, it's a dog eat dog world.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
apodino
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:27 pm

I actually think that fact that the law allows men to go topless but not women is actually discriminatory. Either we all are allowed to go topless or no one at all. Period. If women want to go topless, let them.

I was in St. Thomas on a stop on a cruise I took. There was a woman on the beach who was topless and her breasts were out there. No one batted an eye, and no pervish guys that I could see were trying to gawk. This is the way it should be, and I know we as a society are capable of getting there. Go to Germany like someone else mentioned. Men and women are naked together there a lot, especially in the saunas, and there is no sexual tension at all there. Nudity does not have to equal sex, and I in fact believe that if men and women actually saw more naked bodies other than ones in Porn that portray unrealistic images, they would realize their own bodies are normal and are nothing to be ashamed about and would develop more self confidence in themselves. Body image is a big problem in society these days.

I do suspect that if women did get the right to go topless that not a lot of them actually would. Nor should they be forced to. Women are responsible for their own bodies and if they want to cover up they should, and if they want to dress a little more freely they should be allowed to do that as well. But we should give them that choice, not make it for them with laws or by slut shaming.

Lastly, we have seen all the stories about women getting in trouble for breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is the most natural thing a woman can do and one of the most effective ways at bonding with her child. If women could go topless, I suspect that breastfeeding would become more normal and you wouldn't see the shame that you do these days and it makes me sick.
 
PhilBy
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:29 pm

mbmbos wrote:

What a load of misogynist tripe.

"The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior."

Really? Do you have any evidence of this or is this what your mind tells you?

"Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless."

So, the sight of a naked woman skeeves you out? You give gay men everywhere a bad name. I'm gay and I'm appalled that a man claiming to be gay would come out here and basically serve up a version of the "she had it coming" trope. It's really disappointing.


Speaking as a heterosexual male...

My wife shares his opinions. Having been to a girls school this is apparently entirely typical female behaviour!
 
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Aesma
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Susan McGinnis from the Attorney General’s office's argument is the same used to justify veiling women, putting them under burkas, forbidding them from leaving the home, etc., because the sight of women excites men and that's a public safety issue.
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mbmbos
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:51 pm

PhilBy wrote:
mbmbos wrote:

What a load of misogynist tripe.

"The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior."

Really? Do you have any evidence of this or is this what your mind tells you?

"Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless."

So, the sight of a naked woman skeeves you out? You give gay men everywhere a bad name. I'm gay and I'm appalled that a man claiming to be gay would come out here and basically serve up a version of the "she had it coming" trope. It's really disappointing.


Speaking as a heterosexual male...

My wife shares his opinions. Having been to a girls school this is apparently entirely typical female behaviour![/quote

I don't care. It doesn't make his comments any better or less misogynistic.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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bagoldex
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:44 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
There are worse things that give gay men a bad name.


Such as?
 
Calder
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:53 pm

I don't care at all which way this case goes, but I'll say, I am honestly curious to see what the outcome is.

Should be an interesting case study, if nothing else.
C. T.
 
B777LRF
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
NH Supreme Court
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Laconia city
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Weirs Beach
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Gilford
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Canaan
Where?

My geography is usually pretty good, but this is way too local.

As for the whole top-less debate; we had that in the 60s and 70s, decided that a cheast with our without baby feeding apparatus is the same, and should enjoy the same level of freedom. In fact, we went a bit further and decided that, on a public beach, you can wear as little or as much as you please. Except for those areas which are explicitly reserved for nudists.

But that's large parts of the US for you; high usage (and by far the biggest producer) of adult entertainment and video violence, yet prudish to an unfathomable degree.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
bagoldex
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:53 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Revelation wrote:
NH Supreme Court
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Laconia city
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Weirs Beach
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Gilford
Where?

Revelation wrote:
Canaan
Where?

My geography is usually pretty good, but this is way too local.

As for the whole top-less debate; we had that in the 60s and 70s, decided that a cheast with our without baby feeding apparatus is the same, and should enjoy the same level of freedom. In fact, we went a bit further and decided that, on a public beach, you can wear as little or as much as you please. Except for those areas which are explicitly reserved for nudists.

But that's large parts of the US for you; high usage (and by far the biggest producer) of adult entertainment and video violence, yet prudish to an unfathomable degree.


There's this amazing thing called the internet that has search engines you can use to answer that kind of question. Guaranteed it would have taken less time to search for 'Laconia' than it did to parse out each locale just to end up sounding like an asshole.
 
B777LRF
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:14 am

Point taken, but it would have taken even less time for the OP to point out this was about a regional New Hampshire court. And, just for the record, sounding like an arsehole is something I take as a compliment.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
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Aesma
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:18 pm

I can't find a decision about this, is it still pending ?
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Kiwirob
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:31 pm

mad99 wrote:
if the nipple is freed you're gonna get all types, not just the good ones.
Here in Spain it's tits out at the beach and some things are better left unseen


Norwegian women are now firmly in then tops on side of the ledger, when i first visited in 1997, tits all over the beach, when I moved in 2006 tits were gone, I blame cellphone cameras.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:40 am

mbmbos wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
The court should strike down the law but shield any individual from prosecution. The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior.

To give an example: a friend of mine would dress in a provocative way. She would complain how old men would stare at her and how she felt objectified by them. I confronted her and said the only reason she was complaining is because of their age because if the men were around her age and attractive, she'd be more than happy.

Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless. If she wants to put out her breasts to lactate, I'd be fine with it. If a woman wants to sunbathe topless, by all means. But don't go to the police and file a complaint if there are vultures peering at you.



What a load of misogynist tripe.

"The same group of women that wants to sunbathe topless is probably the same group that feels assaulted if men stare at their breasts and will no doubt sue them for inappropriate behavior."

Really? Do you have any evidence of this or is this what your mind tells you?

"Being gay, I have no interest in seeing a woman topless."

So, the sight of a naked woman skeeves you out? You give gay men everywhere a bad name. I'm gay and I'm appalled that a man claiming to be gay would come out here and basically serve up a version of the "she had it coming" trope. It's really disappointing.


I’m glad you brought this up. Misogyny amongst gay men can be much worse than what we see from heterosexual men. I recently read an article about misogyny in the gay community and it was truly enlightening. I wish I could find it for you.

Same with internalized homophobia. I’ve met some really homophobic gay men in my life and wow it is very bizarre. They’re so desperate to fit in with their oppressors.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:59 am

Just want to make this clear: it's actually legal to have bare boobies in NH on state beaches. The original article is about a city ordinance, which honestly is kind of weird because it's laconia. It's not the classiest town in the state. Women would feel compelled to cover up so they don't have a bunch of middle aged men staring at them.
 
TSS
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Re: NH Supreme Court hears 'Free The Nipple' case

Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:27 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Same with internalized homophobia. I’ve met some really homophobic gay men in my life and wow it is very bizarre. They’re so desperate to fit in with their oppressors.


The exact opposite attitude, externalized heterophobia, has become quite common in the gay community in the last few years as well. "Externalized Heterophobia" is where a gay guy is expected to conform to a whole bunch of tired old stereotypes about gays; If he doesn't he's considered (and often outright called to his face) "Not gay" or at least "Not gay enough".
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