Ken777
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Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm

News releases are everywhere that the President has fully declassified the Memo from the Republicans. Democrats on the House Committee are more than furious at what is seen as a propaganda effort. One interesting factor is that Nunes actually changed the Memo after it passed the Committee so most people on the Committee has no idea what is in the memo post secret changes.

So how long will it take for Piutin's efforts in writing/releasing the Memo to leak out. The Russians are very good at releasing information before the White House.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:11 pm

Ken777 wrote:
News releases are everywhere that the President has fully declassified the Memo from the Republicans. Democrats on the House Committee are more than furious at what is seen as a propaganda effort. One interesting factor is that Nunes actually changed the Memo after it passed the Committee so most people on the Committee has no idea what is in the memo post secret changes.

So how long will it take for Piutin's efforts in writing/releasing the Memo to leak out. The Russians are very good at releasing information before the White House.



I have a feeling the kickback on this is not going to be good for the GOP. At the end of the day, the push for the release is politcial, the contents are political, and the reactions are going to be political.
The workers within the FBI/DOJ and other departments are going to be polarized, and the jobs they are there to do will be maligned as there will always be a political tilt on it.


Trump wants a win so badly, that he seems to be willing to destroy moral within the government of which most employees only goal is to do their jobs investigating whatever questionable item comes up. If it is always going to be a game of political football, then they are going to lose those that actually value objectivity and analysis.

The GOP may get a short term win here for their base, but at the end of the day, it will turn more people against Trump. He is becoming the monster within the swamp.
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salttee
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:17 pm

At four pages, it's too long for the attention span of most of his base.
I doubt if it'll do him much good.

We can now eagerly await our local neanderthals to post misrepresentations of what it says.
 
Ken777
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Herre is one link to the "Memo", passed without comment - so far

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/docume ... ge%2Fstory
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:57 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Herre is one link to the "Memo", passed without comment - so far

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/docume ... ge%2Fstory



It's the whole Fusion GPS Steele bullshit the right wing fake news sites have been shoveling for months, and it is inherently biased as it blames the DNC and Clinton foundation for the existence of the Dossier. The investigation started from other folks wanting to keep Trump from being nominated.

So this memo just proves that there is political bias within the Congressional leadership.
The FBI is correct in that the whole memo glosses over fact, to just basically state that the Dossier was the "Essential" means by which Carter page got his warrant applied.

There is a lot of facts and details missing, but mostly this document is just a Sean Hannity wet dream to keep pushing his lies about Fusion GPS, Clinton, and whatever his low intelligence audience drools over.
Last edited by casinterest on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CCGPV
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:12 pm

Right wing: This proves everything.
Left wing: This proves nothing.
Everyone else: What's for dinner tonight?

Business as usual.
Stay curious
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:16 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Right wing: This proves everything.
Left wing: This proves nothing.
Everyone else: What's for dinner tonight?

Business as usual.


That is pretty much it.
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:20 pm

Let's be clear here: Trump is only interested in himself. Not national security, not the people of the US, not our institutions that have held our country together for so long. He's a one man show, who works for only himself, who cares for only himself, and will do anything for a personal/political win, regardless of whether it harms our country. He's dragging everyone down with him, if he fails. This is actually what is scary. And, there are people that believe anything he says, which is worse. He's lied over and over again this past year, yet people still put faith in him. I cannot comprehend it. Speaks volumes about that particular population that supports him. We are in real danger here.
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
That is pretty much it.

That's a dangerous mentality. When election season heats up, both sides will be using the memo. An informed voter would be reading this to make up their mind come election time instead of being swayed by talking points that will be twisted to fit political gain.
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
casinterest wrote:
That is pretty much it.

That's a dangerous mentality. When election season heats up, both sides will be using the memo. An informed voter would be reading this to make up their mind come election time instead of being swayed by talking points that will be twisted to fit political gain.


I was only agreeing with the premise. At the end of the day most folks spend their days working and raising their families. Reading a memo is not going to be a priority.

Unfortunately, those that buy into what is said in this memo are buying into something they fail to understand.

A memo is not different than a basic email to a coworker.
It has not need for basis in fact, and can advance whatever message the originator is trying to convey, whether it is opinion,joke, or serious business.

This is why this memo is not really important to most, as it is a part of a much larger communication stream and process that is out of the view of even the author of the memo.
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salttee
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
It's the whole Fusion GPS Steele bullshit the right wing fake news sites have been shoveling for months

???? Glenn Simpson's Fusion GPS is not right wing at all. Neither is Christopher Steele.
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:45 pm

Total nothing

Image
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:46 pm

salttee wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It's the whole Fusion GPS Steele bullshit the right wing fake news sites have been shoveling for months

???? Glenn Simpson's Fusion GPS is not right wing at all. Neither is Christopher Steele.

I am talking about the bullshit story the right wing has been spinning. I know the others are not particularly right wing, but at the end of the day, most far right folks where dead set against a Trump candidacy in the beginning, and that is how Steele got involved. The DNC and Clinton campaign came along later and got the dossier.

Remember, their are a lot more items that allowed the Warrants to go out, and this "Memo" glosses over all those details, and throws the research, investigations, and communications of government workers under the bus as all politically motivated. Most of those workers were following up on leads and evidence from more than just a Dossier.
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salttee
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:19 pm

The biggest message I get from reading the memo is the fact that a politically neutral British citizen who had just spent some months familiarizing himself with Donald Trump had become "desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate that he not become President."

That should raise eyebrows.

Then there is the fact that the memo doesn't mention anything about George Papadopoulos's actions which were the actual basis of the FISA warrant.
It also goes on and on about Christopher Steele was terminated as an FBI informant, much after the fact of the FISA action.

Truly a big nothing for the Republicans.

BTW
Here's the background behind all this:
http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/ ... -SD002.pdf
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:31 pm

There really is no "smoking gun" in the memo. It truly appears very partisan and making controversy and not much else.
It is also hurt by the ridiculous build up over the past week plus by the Republican's. They made it seem as if it was more than it actually is, they kinda became their own worst enemy on it.

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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:15 pm

I have read the Memo, and if the allegations in the memo are true, there is some disturbing stuff in here that should worry all of us about political bias among the top players in law enforcement.

That being said, the memo is just allegations and without the context or evidence to back up what is in this memo, we should take it with a grain of salt before we jump to any conclusions.

The biggest bombshell in the memo is that Fusion GPS dossier was purportedly used to obtain a FISA warrant against a member of the trump campaign. This would have happened under the Obama administration. The fact that the dossier had some connections to the Clinton campaign was allegedly known to the FBI and the DOJ but omitted from the FISA warrant application. If true this is a big omission. Furthermore, it states that Andrew McCabe testified under oath before the intelligence committee that without this dossier the warrant would have never been obtained. Because this testimony was behind closed doors and the transcript is still confidential there is no proof of this testimony. However, if McCabe did in fact testify to this under oath one of two things is true. Either the application for the warrant was based on inaccurate information provided to the FISA judge (which if true in my opinion is a big fourth amendment violation), or McCabe himself is guilty of perjury.

If the allegations in the last paragraph are true, this is very scary stuff we are talking about. But we are getting an incomplete picture based on a memo that was written by one political party. We need to push congress to release the Democratic memo on the same subject. I want to read what they have to say about this. Lastly, I get the classified nature of FISA, and I am not a proponent of FISA at all and was against the recent bill that reauthorized FISA. But to the extent possible, lets release the FISA application (with any classified stuff redacted), and lets also release the testimony that McCabe gave before the House Intelligence committee. Without the complete picture of everything, I cannot draw any conclusions at all about the situation based off of a four page memo.

I do suspect that taken at face value, the memo is going to just confirm existing biases. Democrats are goign to call it nothing and incomplete, republicans are going to say this proves how dirty the swamp really is, and independents are going to want more info. I am glad it was released though, and I saw nothing in the memo that endangers classified sources or in any way poses the security threats that those who didnt want it released claim.
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:18 pm

apodino wrote:
Either the application for the warrant was based on inaccurate information provided to the FISA judge (which if true in my opinion is a big fourth amendment violation), or McCabe himself is guilty of perjury.


I'm sorry, what?!
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:56 pm

jetero wrote:
apodino wrote:
Either the application for the warrant was based on inaccurate information provided to the FISA judge (which if true in my opinion is a big fourth amendment violation), or McCabe himself is guilty of perjury.


I'm sorry, what?!


Just reread apodino's whole diatribe.

Mostly it consists of
"if true"

Which means, you have to basically swallow the partisan sword to make all of these into a giant "True" statement.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:09 pm

This is the same FBI that tipped its hand to Giuliani regarding that HRC probe during the campaign, where all the players are Republican, and a dossier initially funded by another Republican? ...and a memo written by Trump’s mentally impaired lap dog? Oh ok sounds legit :thumbsup:
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:12 pm

casinterest wrote:
Mostly it consists of "if true"

McCabe was not let go because of "if true".
Testified previously that was the source for the FISA warrant.
*********
FISA judge may be cleaning out the DOJ and the FBI without any other assistance.
Going to be tough to work in the DOJ without being recognized by the bar.

Okie
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:19 pm

Okie wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mostly it consists of "if true"

McCabe was not let go because of "if true".
Testified previously that was the source for the FISA warrant.
*********
FISA judge may be cleaning out the DOJ and the FBI without any other assistance.
Going to be tough to work in the DOJ without being recognized by the bar.

Okie

And this is where the partisan bullshit starts


is this what you are saying?

The memo is not corroborated by other sources.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sources-d ... sa-warrant

So this is where it leaves us.



Trump , Fired MccAbe over a bullshit uncorroborated partisan memo.
The President is not protecting the country, he is protecting himself. No one should condone this, and in the end, all of this proves that no one in government can expect to be heard when truth,integrity and honesty goes against Trump or the GOP's self interest.
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:24 pm

apodino wrote:
The biggest bombshell in the memo is that Fusion GPS dossier was purportedly used to obtain a FISA warrant against a member of the trump campaign. This would have happened under the Obama administration. The fact that the dossier had some connections to the Clinton campaign was allegedly known to the FBI and the DOJ but omitted from the FISA warrant application.


And then, you would guess that any law enforcement thoroughly vets any dossier before they use it to obtain a warrant. Proving that the FBI just took a dossier and didn't give it any scrutiny would be a bombshell. But that's not what the published memo says.

And Fusion GPS was first tasked by Republican primary competitors to investigate Trump, and after Trump's nomination Fusion GPS got a contract from the DNC. Why would anybody - here the Republicans - pay an investigator and later try to discredit his results?

Basically the only proof the Republicans have is... "What Mr. Steele discovered taints Mr. Trump's reputation!"


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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:25 pm

I have no time to read that stuff, it may have a political impact, but if it goes nowhere in the courts, I don't see how it could be used for long that way. Either win a court case (defamation or something like that) or shut up.
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salttee
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:25 pm

apodino wrote:
The biggest bombshell in the memo is that Fusion GPS dossier was purportedly used to obtain a FISA warrant against a member of the trump campaign.

And that assertion has been denied by the FBI. The basis of the FISA warrant was the George Papadopoulos investigation that has resulted in a guilty plea.

It is ridiculous to assert differently unless you or one of your friends was in the room as the legal strategy was being drawn up.

And I doubt that Andrew McCabe testified under to the intelligence committee that without this dossier the warrant would have never been obtained. I suspect that he s being misquoted. They only had the Steele information for a few days before asking for the FISA warrant, the whole, quite methodical, investigative process had been based on the Papadopoulos information up until that time.
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
Okie wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mostly it consists of "if true"

McCabe was not let go because of "if true".
Testified previously that was the source for the FISA warrant.
*********
FISA judge may be cleaning out the DOJ and the FBI without any other assistance.
Going to be tough to work in the DOJ without being recognized by the bar.

Okie

And this is where the partisan bullshit starts


is this what you are saying?

The memo is not corroborated by other sources.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sources-d ... sa-warrant

So this is where it leaves us.



Trump , Fired MccAbe over a bullshit uncorroborated partisan memo.
The President is not protecting the country, he is protecting himself. No one should condone this, and in the end, all of this proves that no one in government can expect to be heard when truth,integrity and honesty goes against Trump or the GOP's self interest.

We don't know if the memo is bullshit or not. Some people are saying it is, and others are not. Until all the facts come out, lets refrain from drawing any conclusions on this.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:55 pm

apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Okie wrote:
McCabe was not let go because of "if true".
Testified previously that was the source for the FISA warrant.
*********
FISA judge may be cleaning out the DOJ and the FBI without any other assistance.
Going to be tough to work in the DOJ without being recognized by the bar.

Okie

And this is where the partisan bullshit starts


is this what you are saying?

The memo is not corroborated by other sources.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/sources-d ... sa-warrant

So this is where it leaves us.



Trump , Fired MccAbe over a bullshit uncorroborated partisan memo.
The President is not protecting the country, he is protecting himself. No one should condone this, and in the end, all of this proves that no one in government can expect to be heard when truth,integrity and honesty goes against Trump or the GOP's self interest.

We don't know if the memo is bullshit or not. Some people are saying it is, and others are not. Until all the facts come out, lets refrain from drawing any conclusions on this.


It's bullshit because we don't know the facts, we aren't going to get to know the facts, and the Memo came out on a partisan vote of the intelligence committee. Thus , it is Bullshit.
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:11 pm

apodino wrote:
We don't know if the memo is bullshit or not.


That's quite easy to find out.

When the committee voted on releasing the memo, they did so along... party lines. *gasp*

It's the same with Supreme Court rulings. A 5-4 decision is generally more questionable than a 8-1 or a 7-2 one.

This is why some commission reports (e.g. NTSB accident reports) require a large majority (e.g. 4/5), and anything that is rejected by this majority will be published as an appendix. So you have both all the facts/opinions and unbiased information.


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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm

apodino wrote:
We don't know if the memo is bullshit or not. Some people are saying it is, and others are not. Until all the facts come out, lets refrain from drawing any conclusions on this.


Really? Naive much?
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:25 am

This memo is simply a bunch of words put to paper by someone loyal to tRump. The tone and words are meant to say what tRump and his right wing followers want to hear. There is nothing legal about it. Simply opinion. Because facts were omitted.

We all know that tRump and his followers hate the media because they were told to. They also hate Democrats or anyone who speaks out against tRump or evangelical right wingers for the same reason. Now, they are being told to hate the FBI and CIA, which they will gladly do. The orange menace also said he needs a major attack to keep power. We have seen this before in Germany in the 1930s. That did not turn out well, did it?
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:10 am

Is it not amazing , the Republican Party, defenders of Democracy and its Institutions, super faithful to the Constitution, and freedom of speech and press and individual rights now find themselves being exposed as hypcrites by this buffoons actions, which they are slavishly following like whipped dogs because tRump may attack them for following principles which they supposedly believe in. The seeking of reelection once again proves more powerful than the safety of our Democratic Institutions, which really means nothing to them as we have so painfully seen. Truth are lies, lies become truth.( Modern Republican Doctrine under tRump.)
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Ken777
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:34 am

While it would be nice for a full, clean version of the Democrat's memo to be released next week I doubt that it will happen. First Trump is known for delaying anything that is not comfortable, Trump is also obsessed with getting rid of everyone involved in the investigation - they put be getting really close. Sort of like Nixon saying that a year is more than enough for his investigation. He will also be very worried that the GOP might lead to the Democrats taking over the House and/or Senate. That ends his lapdog controlling the House Committee and all of a sudden Trump might be trying to negotiate a prison free end of his Presidency.
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:52 am

apodino wrote:
We don't know if the memo is bullshit or not. Some people are saying it is, and others are not. Until all the facts come out, lets refrain from drawing any conclusions on this.

Selectively releasing the "facts" was *literally* the purpose of the memo

Ken777 wrote:
While it would be nice for a full, clean version of the Democrat's memo to be released next week I doubt that it will happen. First Trump is known for delaying anything that is not comfortable, Trump is also obsessed with getting rid of everyone involved in the investigation - they put be getting really close. Sort of like Nixon saying that a year is more than enough for his investigation. He will also be very worried that the GOP might lead to the Democrats taking over the House and/or Senate. That ends his lapdog controlling the House Committee and all of a sudden Trump might be trying to negotiate a prison free end of his Presidency.

"Like Watergate but with stupid people" #releasethepeepeetape
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:23 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
"Like Watergate but with stupid people" #releasethepeepeetape


Now’d be a perfect time to release the pee pee tape, I’m sure Tony Perkins would give him another mulligan and Mikey Pence would just go on fluffing.
 
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:09 am

apodino wrote:
The biggest bombshell in the memo is that Fusion GPS dossier was purportedly used to obtain a FISA warrant against a member of the trump campaign. This would have happened under the Obama administration. The fact that the dossier had some connections to the Clinton campaign was allegedly known to the FBI and the DOJ but omitted from the FISA warrant application. If true this is a big omission.


It's really not. Bias, perceived or otherwise, is not in and of itself reason to reject a warrant. Consider the case of someone who was caught by police and offered a chance to spill information on their co-conspirators in exchange for a lighter sentence. That happens all the time, and their statements still produce warrants despite them having obvious incentive to say bad things about their co-conspirators because it can be reasonably expected that they know a lot about the matter at hand. What judges are concerned about is whether the source is reliable and if the information they are providing can be corroborated. You're going to have a much harder time getting a warrant off a single source with a history of lying than you will off of multiple respected sources saying things that have been corroborated.

The memo itself states that Steele had been a longtime FBI source, and that his dossier had been "minimally corroborated". "Minimally" is a great editorial word - it could mean that only a few superficial details had been corroborated, or it could mean that a whole bunch of superficial details couldn't be corroborated but one really important thing had been - but what it definitely shows is that at least some of the dossier had been corroborated. The memo also states that there was information relating to George Papadopoulous in the warrant request, so it wasn't a single-source request. That's more than enough evidence for a judge to approve a warrant. That the DNC paid for his work is something that might be nice to know, but lots of case law suggests that it would have made no difference.

The memo also states that the warrant was renewed three times. In order for FISA warrants to be renewed, there has to be proof that the surveillance is producing things of value - you can't just leave them open ended in case something shows up. That three renewal requests had been approved by judges shows that the warrant was not a witch hunt and that there was good cause for keeping it open. In addition, numerous people signed off on the requests (including Trump appointees), so the charge of political bias looks a lot weaker.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:21 am

jetero wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
"Like Watergate but with stupid people" #releasethepeepeetape


Now’d be a perfect time to release the pee pee tape, I’m sure Tony Perkins would give him another mulligan and Mikey Pence would just go on fluffing.

Jesus died for hooker golden showers and pay day loans...oh and Tony’s favorite: segregation
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:13 pm

On reddit, there is a line-by-line commentary of the Nunes memo.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... h=0662bd28


David
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ltbewr
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:32 pm

The FBI has a long and bad history of political bias and agenda, especially against the 'left'. This 'Memo' is just another example of trying to twist the FBI to continue that history.

To get a FISA approval or extension of a wiretapping or other investigative Subpoena would take a lot more than a Yahoo news article or a 'dossier' as many have noted. The Nunes Memo however suggests the Yahoo article and dossier were disproportionately used to continue the FISA warrants on several people who had contacts with criminal oligarchs of Russia who in turn were trying to influence then candidate Donald Trump and keep out Hillary Clinton from winning the election to end the Obama Administration imposition of economic sanctions against Russia. Those sanctions have and continue to cost billions to the government of Russia and their Oligarchs and were imposed to go after Russia's agressive policies in the Ukraine and elsewhere.

What many fear from this memo, by suggesting serious anti-Trump/pro-HRC bias is that it will lead to the dismissal of key FBI and Justice Dept. officials and in turn remove Mueller to end the investigations against Trump as to his campaign contacts with in fact pro-Russian agents. It is also to end looking at his financial ties that are likely being potentially being extorted by Russia to get the sanctions lifted and more freedom to do business in Syria and elsewhere.

If Trump is able to replace top Justice and FBI officials with people who will end any investigations of him directly or indirectly of him or his staff of any kind, I fear that he will put in people that will target Black Lives Matter and related groups, groups that support Israel BDS, civil rights groups, immigrant rights and defense groups, and Muslim persons, all to appease his White core voters.
 
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Francoflier
Posts: 4538
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:46 pm

I'll just remind us all, if needed, that Nunes is the guy that staged that whole theatrical midnight run to the WH early in the Presidency to allegedly brief the President on some important info regarding him being spied on by Obama, only to provide no details or proof whatsoever (despite claiming he had them) and the ultimate discovery that he had likely been briefed by the WH (maybe Trump himself) on what to do and say instead.

This is pure PR showmanship from an obedient Trump foot soldier.

He also managed to confirm that part of the dossier had been corroborated, that the FISA warrant was based on more than just the dossier since he mentioned Papadopoulos, and possibly even that Page was still working for the Trump administration after they officially distanced themselves from him as the contentious warrant came after he stopped working for the Trump campaign and allegedly had nothing to do with it anymore.

Oh, and let's conveniently forget the fact that Page had been under surveillance for several Months by that stage and has had many contacts with Russian oligarchs and people close to or within the Putin circle and has been a vocal pro-Russian advocate since he started working for Big Russian businesses and lived in Moscow for a few years...
:scratchchin:
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:18 pm

Trump says the memo vindicates him.

That's like a kid handwriting his own excuse for not going to gym class.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:58 pm

This is worse than Watergate really when you take into account the intent behind the abuse. We now need, while leaving Mueller in place, a second special counsel to unravel this DOJ/FBI abuse. We can now safely conclude:

a) there were Russian attempts at interference in the election
b) there was collusion between a government and a campaign, it just wasn't the Trump campaign colluding with the Russian government, but the Obama government colluding with the Clinton campaign.

I am deeply disturbed by this. The US has now been through 16 straight years of two Presidents eviscerating the civil liberties America has always been proudest of and turning it into a dangerous police state at some levels. How high where the hopes people had for Obama after the catastrophe of the Bush administration. This makes even worse the fact that Obama not only did nothing to reverse the Bush moves towards a police state, but he doubled down on it.
 
salttee
Posts: 2745
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:13 pm

aviationaware wrote:
We now need a second special counsel to unravel this DOJ/FBI abuse.

What DOJ/FBI abuse?? And what are you talking about re: Obama doubled down on it?
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11893
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:33 pm

casinterest wrote:

It's bullshit because we don't know the facts, we aren't going to get to know the facts, and the Memo came out on a partisan vote of the intelligence committee. Thus , it is Bullshit.


This whole Russia thing reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse case. A black girl made up a lie. The DA ran with it even going so far as to ignoring the DNA expert telling him the samples didn't match and he couldn't tie the kids to her. All because of political gain and winning his DA election. The media ran with it because of their hatred of what they classified "privileged" kids and three young men's lives were ruined on a huge lie.

It all it seems to be needed these days. Someone to hate something and make up something. Recite it enough and it becomes true.

Yes let us wait for the facts. It would be better than to listen to everyone who has a mentally unhealthy hatred of the fact Hillary lost the election.

Oh BTW don't bother replying to this post. It will be one and out for me. From reading this thread so far it is going to go south fast. I will wait to Mueller actually does something and tells us what "facts" he has to post my opinion I suggest we all do the same.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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Tugger
Posts: 8385
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Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:07 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
This whole Russia thing

Who is worried about the "Russia thing"? Yes Russia tried to influence the election and did so in various ways. And yes Trump probably has some fairly decent connections to Russia through his financial transactions. I seriously doubt he was in any direct collusion with them or Putin etc. but his subordinates may have been stupid and accepted or encouraged assistance they should not have.

The real issue Trump is scared of is being caught in a lie by the special counsel. He lies constantly, it is part of who he is and his persona, He stretches the truth, defects, and outright misstates or lies about things. All. The. Time. We all know this, it is well documented. But lie to a special counsel.... well we know what happens.

It doesn't matter where this started. What matter is if Trump lies (or if he refuses to even answer) it will impugn him and endanger his presidency but more important it will harm him and his family directly.

Trump did this to himself.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:32 pm

The selective outrage that most in the media display here only exposes them as complete frauds. First, before the release, it was played up by the Democrats and their media flunkies as a national security risk. Now that everyone has read it and it's more than clear that it isn't remotely one, they have turned the tables and are trying to pass it off as a nothingburger. That's not only inconsequential, it's downright pitiful and embarrassing.
They said it contained sources and methods that couldn't be released. They were lying. They said it was materially altered. It was not. Time and again they repeatedly fed us talking points that were just not true.
One doesn’t have to like Trump, or admire his behavior, or think this memo is a big deal, in order to find this attitude alarming.

Yes, votes in the HPSCI were strictly among party lines. The Democrats were trying to prevent the unmasking of the wrongdoings of their prior administration. The fact that they are unashamed about it and are still trying to fight it means they would unapologetically do it again.

Hillary Clinton colluded with the DNC to rig the primaries in her favor. Based on this, I have zero difficulty believing that she would also try to rig the general election in her favor with illicit practices and influence peddling. The timeline is suspicious here as well: Why was this warrant obtained just after Trump told Clinton at the final 2016 presidential debate that if he were in charge of the laws of this country, she'd be in jail? This stinks.

6 senior officials at the DOJ and FBI were fired (including deputy director McCabe) or reassigned based on the facts from the memo.

Over the past year, zero evidence has come up that would support or even prove a Trump-Russia collusion narrative. Meanwhile, in the same timeframe, tons of evidence on Clinton-DOJ/FBI collusion has come out, especially over the past month with the Strzok scandal. Hillary Clinton got a pass for a crime that would have people of a lesser stature sent to the big house because she was running for office and the people investigating her were in her camp and hated the opposite camp. That's a fact everyone can deduct by reading the Strzok texts and putting them together with the investigation timeline.

The FISA warrant against the Trump campaign was obtained by presenting raw, uncorroborated intelligence to the court. They weren't laughed out of the building for it. This is cause for grave concern. Either the judges are way too liberal with handing out the warrants or the FBI lied/omitted facts on the application. Based on the Nunes memo, the latter is true (no reason to doubt it). But the former is likely also true. The process needs a legislative review.
McCabe did in fact testify under oath that there would not have been a FISA warrant if not for the dossier. It was recorded. The democrats on the HPSCI, lead by leaker-in-chief Rep. Schiff, deny this - but all it takes to prove it is a release of the minutes of McCabe's testimony. I hope that happens quickly.
This means that the FBI under McCabe/Comey presented information that they knew was false to a federal court. Not only is that a disgrace, it's also a crime.

The Obama administration has taken the vastly expanded intelligence services from Bush years and turned them on political enemies. That's appalling and the worst scandal the US have seen for a long many years.
 
salttee
Posts: 2745
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:58 pm

aviationaware wrote:
The selective outrage..................

^^^^^^^^^^^ Unhinged Hyperbole ^^^^^^^^^^^

Which doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.*

*Your saying it doesn't make it true.
Last edited by salttee on Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:59 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

It's bullshit because we don't know the facts, we aren't going to get to know the facts, and the Memo came out on a partisan vote of the intelligence committee. Thus , it is Bullshit.


This whole Russia thing reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse case. A black girl made up a lie. The DA ran with it even going so far as to ignoring the DNA expert telling him the samples didn't match and he couldn't tie the kids to her. All because of political gain and winning his DA election. The media ran with it because of their hatred of what they classified "privileged" kids and three young men's lives were ruined on a huge lie.

It all it seems to be needed these days. Someone to hate something and make up something. Recite it enough and it becomes true.

Yes let us wait for the facts. It would be better than to listen to everyone who has a mentally unhealthy hatred of the fact Hillary lost the election.

Oh BTW don't bother replying to this post. It will be one and out for me. From reading this thread so far it is going to go south fast. I will wait to Mueller actually does something and tells us what "facts" he has to post my opinion I suggest we all do the same.


The fact that you are done with this thread is because other than a complete Non Sequitur into the Duke L across case. There were 4 young men, if you really cared about facts.
You wait for facts? That is rich. Go ask Gowdy and his cowardly group for the facts about Benghazi. The Multi billion dollar smear campaign ran on lies by the GOP. Trumps's dives into birther ism. His daily lies every day on twitter.

You don't believe in facts. You only believe in the lies you want to be true.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:04 pm

aviationaware wrote:
The selective outrage that most in the media display here only exposes them as complete frauds. First, before the release, it was played up by the Democrats and their media flunkies as a national security risk. Now that everyone has read it and it's more than clear that it isn't remotely one, they have turned the tables and are trying to pass it off as a nothingburger. That's not only inconsequential, it's downright pitiful and embarrassing.
They said it contained sources and methods that couldn't be released. They were lying. They said it was materially altered. It was not. Time and again they repeatedly fed us talking points that were just not true.
One doesn’t have to like Trump, or admire his behavior, or think this memo is a big deal, in order to find this attitude alarming.

Yes, votes in the HPSCI were strictly among party lines. The Democrats were trying to prevent the unmasking of the wrongdoings of their prior administration. The fact that they are unashamed about it and are still trying to fight it means they would unapologetically do it again.

Hillary Clinton colluded with the DNC to rig the primaries in her favor. Based on this, I have zero difficulty believing that she would also try to rig the general election in her favor with illicit practices and influence peddling. The timeline is suspicious here as well: Why was this warrant obtained just after Trump told Clinton at the final 2016 presidential debate that if he were in charge of the laws of this country, she'd be in jail? This stinks.

6 senior officials at the DOJ and FBI were fired (including deputy director McCabe) or reassigned based on the facts from the memo.

Over the past year, zero evidence has come up that would support or even prove a Trump-Russia collusion narrative. Meanwhile, in the same timeframe, tons of evidence on Clinton-DOJ/FBI collusion has come out, especially over the past month with the Strzok scandal. Hillary Clinton got a pass for a crime that would have people of a lesser stature sent to the big house because she was running for office and the people investigating her were in her camp and hated the opposite camp. That's a fact everyone can deduct by reading the Strzok texts and putting them together with the investigation timeline.

The FISA warrant against the Trump campaign was obtained by presenting raw, uncorroborated intelligence to the court. They weren't laughed out of the building for it. This is cause for grave concern. Either the judges are way too liberal with handing out the warrants or the FBI lied/omitted facts on the application. Based on the Nunes memo, the latter is true (no reason to doubt it). But the former is likely also true. The process needs a legislative review.
McCabe did in fact testify under oath that there would not have been a FISA warrant if not for the dossier. It was recorded. The democrats on the HPSCI, lead by leaker-in-chief Rep. Schiff, deny this - but all it takes to prove it is a release of the minutes of McCabe's testimony. I hope that happens quickly.
This means that the FBI under McCabe/Comey presented information that they knew was false to a federal court. Not only is that a disgrace, it's also a crime.

The Obama administration has taken the vastly expanded intelligence services from Bush years and turned them on political enemies. That's appalling and the worst scandal the US have seen for a long many years.



This ]\right here is an example of how polluted the far right has become. The daily intake of Fox news, Hannity , and other liars from a network that only considers itself to be an Entertainment network and not concerned with getting facts correct is destroying this country. Just about every statement above is incorrect, and it is sad to see how demented so many people have become on the right.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
jetero
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:31 pm

salttee wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
The selective outrage..................

^^^^^^^^^^^ Unhinged Hyperbole ^^^^^^^^^^^

Which doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.*

*Your saying it doesn't make it true.


The most perplexing thing to me is how he can be so ironclad certain about things that have come nowhere close to have being proven and are not contained in the famous memo (e.g., McCabe lied under oath, memo proves no Russian collusion) and then lecture us on what is “real” and what is “fake.”
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
Just about every statement above is incorrect


It's all a 100% correct and backed by fact. I left out the guesswork deliberately so it's unassailable. You are welcome to try to take it apart bit by bit though - a broad stroke passing it off as incorrect is too cheap even for leftist standards.
 
jetero
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump Declassifies the Nunes"Memo"

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:36 pm

[quote=“NIKV69”]Oh BTW don't bother replying to this post. It will be one and out for me. From reading this thread so far it is going to go south fast. I will wait to Mueller actually does something and tells us what "facts" he has to post my opinion I suggest we all do the same.[/quote]

One and out or still waiting in the wings ready to censor things that you don’t agree with?

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