According to the study, Cow's milk causes increased amount of fractures and osteoporosis. Furthermore, it erodes all calcium from our bones for neutralizing the milk's pH. Switch to non-dairy products like almond milk for better day-to-day lives.

Source: http://www.t1dliving.com/why-we-dont-drink-cows-milk/

Strangely, for me my comment appears above the OP as if I started the thread. Is this a bug with a.net?

BlueberryWheats wrote:

Strangely, for me my comment appears above the OP as if I started the thread. Is this a bug with a.net?

Yes there is an issue with some posts appearing above those who they are replying to

bruh....

Vegetarian options are worse for the environment than animal milk. Look at how much water, fertilizer, land area it takes to make a 32 oz bottle of almond juice. It is not milk. Almonds, soy, rice, etc. do not have teats. You can not milk them. Besides all that, look at all of the chemicals that need to be added to vegetarian options to get the same nutrients as in milk. That takes chemical processing and environmental damage.

First of all, I love how you post a random blog post as evidence for a course of action (because this is the internet and you can't post anything that isn't real, right?). Second, I love the author's credentials: Primal Health Coach. It's authoritative...far outranking physician and nutritionist. And third, I love all the peer-reviewed studies that are posted to further bolster her claim.

I mean, clearly my doctors have lied to me about everything. No! This ends today: I'll trust the web and the random posts when it comes to my health.

By the way, did you know that almond milk contains a large amount of hydroxilic acid, which is known to kill people if ingested in extremely large quantities? I don't know if that would convince me to drink almond milk, however. But my doctor's didn't warn me about that either.

einsteinboricua wrote:

First of all, I love how you post a random blog post as evidence for a course of action (because this is the internet and you can't post anything that isn't real, right?). Second, I love the author's credentials: Primal Health Coach. It's authoritative...far outranking physician and nutritionist. And third, I love all the peer-reviewed studies that are posted to further bolster her claim.

I mean, clearly my doctors have lied to me about everything. No! This ends today: I'll trust the web and the random posts when it comes to my health.

By the way, did you know that almond milk contains a large amount of hydroxilic acid, which is known to kill people if ingested in extremely large quantities? I don't know if that would convince me to drink almond milk, however. But my doctor's didn't warn me about that either.

But someone who is a nutritionist can't be wrong too, can they?

seb146 wrote:

bruh....

Vegetarian options are worse for the environment than animal milk. Look at how much water, fertilizer, land area it takes to make a 32 oz bottle of almond juice. It is not milk. Almonds, soy, rice, etc. do not have teats. You can not milk them. Besides all that, look at all of the chemicals that need to be added to vegetarian options to get the same nutrients as in milk. That takes chemical processing and environmental damage.

+100000

I dont think many of our vegan friends have thought this through before jumping on the veggier-than-thou bandwagon.

I like my beef. And Dairy products.

BawliBooch wrote:

I like my beef.

Non-Hindu Indian, I assume?

Francoflier wrote:

Non-Hindu Indian, I assume?

Score one for silly stereotypes!

Since you had to ask - Hindu - Khatri Brahmin (caste).

Who told you Hindu's don't eat beef? Many from my specific caste group dont, but some(like me) do. But Brahmins make up just around 8% of the Hindu population and most of the other caste groups do eat meat. Our family(mainly my mother) has rules of not eating meat on specific days of the month and so on. But I have spent too much time in liberal JNU to be bothered by silly rules like that.

Back to the topic.

studentdrbev wrote:

einsteinboricua wrote:

First of all, I love how you post a random blog post as evidence for a course of action (because this is the internet and you can't post anything that isn't real, right?). Second, I love the author's credentials: Primal Health Coach. It's authoritative...far outranking physician and nutritionist. And third, I love all the peer-reviewed studies that are posted to further bolster her claim.

I mean, clearly my doctors have lied to me about everything. No! This ends today: I'll trust the web and the random posts when it comes to my health.

By the way, did you know that almond milk contains a large amount of hydroxilic acid, which is known to kill people if ingested in extremely large quantities? I don't know if that would convince me to drink almond milk, however. But my doctor's didn't warn me about that either.

But someone who is a nutritionist can't be wrong too, can they?

Dr Andre Wakefield studied to be a doctor for 5 years, qualifying in 1981 and going on to become a surgeon and a researcher at the University of Toronto.

In 1993 he authored a study in which he suggested that there was a link between the measles virus and Crohn's disease, and then argued for a link between the MMR vaccine and Crohn's disease.

Both claims were discredited in 1998.

Dr Wakefield was not to be deterred however, and went on to author a study in which he claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

That paper has also been completely discredited, Andrew Wakefield has been struck off as a doctor and multiple studies have been carried out showing no evidence of a link.

And yet we still have anti-vaxers today.

Yes, a nutritionist can be wrong.

I've been drinking milk for literally all my life and have never had a broken bine or any bine-related issue or disease.

seb146 wrote:

bruh....

Vegetarian options are worse for the environment than animal milk. Look at how much water, fertilizer, land area it takes to make a 32 oz bottle of almond juice.

Soy bean "milk" beats cow milk hands down in resource consumption.Water, phosphorous, energy, CO2, area, you name it, it is better.... even if you ship the beans from Australia and compare with local cow milk. If only soymilk didn´t taste like shit..... (de gustibus non est disputandum)
A liter of almond milk contains about 2 grams of almond, that is about two whole almonds, which take about 8 liters of water to properly grow and one liter to make up the liquid content. A liter of cow milk takes about 80 liters of water, 4 liters for the cow to drink and the rest to grow the food for the cow. Seems to me that even almond "milk" is about 10 times more water efficient as cow milk.

It is not milk. Almonds, soy, rice, etc. do not have teats. You can not milk them

Here it is illegal to call it "milk", as it ain´t milk. Took a court ruling, but the law is pretty clear... names can not be misleading towards the content.

Besides all that, look at all of the chemicals that need to be added to vegetarian options to get the same nutrients as in milk. That takes chemical processing and environmental damage.

What chemicals are involved in grinding, boiling and filtering soy beans? Oh yes.. none. It has the same protein content as cow milk, less calories (milk is food, not drink), less fat. Vitamins B12, B2 and Calcium carbonate that are often added, because soy drink falls short on that, but those are not exactly dirty chemicals to be added.... making rice or almond drink isn´t different from that.
I am sure you can screw up that process to the point where it becomes environmental damaging, but soy drink is just a byproduct of making tofu .... as long as you make that, you get it anyway.

If you want to talk deforestation or mono-culture, be my guest, but with sensible farming a season of soy tossed in is actually good for the soil quality.

That being said, i like my cow-mild, my yogurt and my cheese, but consuming less of that is a good idea on various ethical, economical and environmental counts.

best regards
Thomas

moo wrote:

Yes, a nutritionist can be wrong.

Over a 100 years ago a book about nutrition was published in Germany that, by type setting accident, gave spinach 10 times the iron content it actually has. You still don´t need to look vor very long to find Germans that still believe it, and when i was a kid doctors would tell you the same.
Before the advent of the Internet and proliferation of cooking shows i would think few people here knew Spinach doesn´t have a particularly high iron content. .....

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

bruh....

Vegetarian options are worse for the environment than animal milk. Look at how much water, fertilizer, land area it takes to make a 32 oz bottle of almond juice.

Soy bean "milk" beats cow milk hands down in resource consumption.Water, phosphorous, energy, CO2, area, you name it, it is better.... even if you ship the beans from Australia and compare with local cow milk. If only soymilk didn´t taste like shit..... (de gustibus non est disputandum)
A liter of almond milk contains about 2 grams of almond, that is about two whole almonds, which take about 8 liters of water to properly grow and one liter to make up the liquid content. A liter of cow milk takes about 80 liters of water, 4 liters for the cow to drink and the rest to grow the food for the cow. Seems to me that even almond "milk" is about 10 times more water efficient as cow milk.

This is what I don't get:

You say it takes a total of 9 liters of water for almond juice. What about the water for additives like vitamins and minerals and all that? How much water is used for the vanilla flavoring for some almond milk? What about in vitamin A, B, C, potassium, calcium, etc. production? What about energy to produce said vitamins and minerals?

I love my cow milk and my dairy. You want to drink almond or rice or soy juice? Fine. Does not bother me one bit, but think about the side additives, too. Feed for cows comes from grains already being grown for human consumption, at least in the United States. So, if you eat bread, chances are that grain could also be going to cows for my ice cream.

seb146 wrote:

You say it takes a total of 9 liters of water for almond juice. What about the water for additives like vitamins and minerals and all that? How much water is used for the vanilla flavoring for some almond milk? What about in vitamin A, B, C, potassium, calcium, etc. production? What about energy to produce said vitamins and minerals?

neglect-able. 1 calorie of soy bean drink protein costs between a quarter and a third calorie in energy, one calorie of milk protein takes about 10 (organic) to 14 (conventional) calories to make.

I love my cow milk and my dairy.

So do i, i just don´t pretend that is a good decision on any count....

Feed for cows comes from grains already being grown for human consumption, at least in the United States. So, if you eat bread, chances are that grain could also be going to cows for my ice cream.

What? No Corn fed, no grain fed cattle in the US? Pure grass fed beef steak, yeah you can get that, but we are talking milk, and those almost always get fed extra corn.

Corn-fed (conventional): Corn-fed, also known as conventional or grain-fed, is the most widely produced kind of beef in the U.S. This is the product most consumers see in the meat case at the
supermarket.

http://www.ncga.com/uploads/useruploads ... edbeef.pdf

Grazing animals for food is good if they are fed on land that is useless for pretty much anything else than grassland. If you can grow something else, that is a much more efficient way to generate nutrition.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

What? No Corn fed, no grain fed cattle in the US? Pure grass fed beef steak, yeah you can get that, but we are talking milk, and those almost always get fed extra corn.

Corn-fed, also known as conventional or grain-fed, is the most widely produced kind of beef in the U.S. .

http://www.ncga.com/uploads/useruploads ... edbeef.pdf

Grazing animals for food is good if they are fed on land that is useless for pretty much anything else than grassland. If you can grow something else, that is a much more efficient way to generate nutrition.

Yes, that is most probably true.

When I last looked the World population was heading north of 7 billion, and the population of the US was less than 400 million, so maybe we should also consider what happens outside of the USA?
{UK} The majority of British dairy cows eat grass during the summer and silage (preserved grass or maize) in the winter. This is usually supplemented with dry feeds such as cereals and protein feeds with added vitamins and minerals.
{Canada, BC} Cows eat a mixture of grass hay, alfalfa hay, grains as well as corn and grass silage. Grass and alfalfa are dried to make hay
{Canada, Alberta} ...dependent on where the farm is located in Canada and what feed types are most commonly available
{New Zealand} Check out the DairyNZ website and pasture dominates each page. Verdant, green paddocks of ryegrass and clover are dotted with black and white friesians eating their hearts out. In Europe and America cows exist in "loafing barns" and feed on grain (¹), but not here. The New Zealand dairy industry sells itself on grass and open air.
(¹) Edit - whilst I accept that the NZ approach is very much greener, I'm not going to allow them to get away with that statement
Firstly; I doubt that NZ cows are completely free from food supplements.
Secondly, the quotes above show that plenty of European and N.American herds also graze on grass for at least part of the year.

I cannot speak for dairy cows in Africa and Asia, but I believe there is much less dairy industry in either continent, although in rural areas plenty of cows exist in small herds or as individuals belonging to a single family. I doubt any of these exist on fancy diets....

Most adults worldwide do not produce the enzyme lactase and so are unable to digest the milk sugar lactose. However, most Europeans continue to produce lactase throughout their life, a characteristic known as lactase persistence.
Lactase persistence appears to have begun around 7,500 years ago between the central Balkans and central Europe.... and appears to have given people with it a big survival advantage. Traces of fats {in archaeological finds} also point to dairying at the onset of farming in England some 6,100 years ago.

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-some-Chi ... y-products

I'll leave you with this epic thought;
"The Chinese will eat everything with wings except an aeroplane, and everything with legs except furniture".
They laugh at European & Americans for their conservative diets, and yet.... they cannot comprehend our consumption of dairy products.
Milk, cheese, butter, yoghurt....

http://www.thisisdairyfarming.com/disco ... -cows-eat/
https://bcdairy.ca/dairyfarmers/article ... y-cows-eat
https://albertamilk.com/ask-dairy-farme ... -cows-eat/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farmin ... ing-system

I love almonds, almond juice in my coffee just doesn't work though. Also, I've seen an alarming documentary about almond production in the US (biggest producer), environmentally it's terrible, after production the almonds are sent to India where children open them !

I'll pass yet another trendy food scam and continue to drink my cow's milk - thanks

ACDC8 wrote:

I'll pass yet another trendy food scam

i guess in this day and age any discussion based on facts and scholarship is a scam.....

best regards
Thomas

To my knowledge, there is an EU directive that will restrict the use of the word milk to to the milk coming from animals. All others fakes milks will have to find an other name.
https://www.ft.com/content/60dfdf34-511 ... 7009366969

tommy1808 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

bruh....

Vegetarian options are worse for the environment than animal milk. Look at how much water, fertilizer, land area it takes to make a 32 oz bottle of almond juice.

Soy bean "milk" beats cow milk hands down in resource consumption.Water, phosphorous, energy, CO2, area, you name it, it is better.... even if you ship the beans from Australia and compare with local cow milk. If only soymilk didn´t taste like shit..... (de gustibus non est disputandum)
A liter of almond milk contains about 2 grams of almond, that is about two whole almonds, which take about 8 liters of water to properly grow and one liter to make up the liquid content. A liter of cow milk takes about 80 liters of water, 4 liters for the cow to drink and the rest to grow the food for the cow. Seems to me that even almond "milk" is about 10 times more water efficient as cow milk.

It is not milk. Almonds, soy, rice, etc. do not have teats. You can not milk them

Here it is illegal to call it "milk", as it ain´t milk. Took a court ruling, but the law is pretty clear... names can not be misleading towards the content.

Besides all that, look at all of the chemicals that need to be added to vegetarian options to get the same nutrients as in milk. That takes chemical processing and environmental damage.

What chemicals are involved in grinding, boiling and filtering soy beans? Oh yes.. none. It has the same protein content as cow milk, less calories (milk is food, not drink), less fat. Vitamins B12, B2 and Calcium carbonate that are often added, because soy drink falls short on that, but those are not exactly dirty chemicals to be added.... making rice or almond drink isn´t different from that.
I am sure you can screw up that process to the point where it becomes environmental damaging, but soy drink is just a byproduct of making tofu .... as long as you make that, you get it anyway.

If you want to talk deforestation or mono-culture, be my guest, but with sensible farming a season of soy tossed in is actually good for the soil quality.

That being said, i like my cow-mild, my yogurt and my cheese, but consuming less of that is a good idea on various ethical, economical and environmental counts.

best regards
Thomas

In countries like NZ that 80 litres of water comes from the sky, it doesn’t come from an irrigation system which diverts water from rivers etc......whereas where the majority of almonds are grown water is a scarce resource which could be used for other purposes than being wasted on almonds.

Kiwirob wrote:

In countries like NZ that 80 litres of water comes from the sky, it doesn’t come from an irrigation system which diverts water from rivers etc......whereas where the majority of almonds are grown water is a scarce resource which could be used for other purposes than being wasted on almonds.

In deed, but that is a separate issue. No one ever said you can implement stuff in a bad way. Not each liter of milk is the same, not every liter of cold Almond broth is the same....

best regards

Thomas

how about goat milk and camel milk? Is it better?

tommy1808 wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

I'll pass yet another trendy food scam

i guess in this day and age any discussion based on facts and scholarship is a scam.....

best regards
Thomas

Sorry Thomas, but the post has no evidence other than a blog from a "Primal Health Coach" (whatever that means). It's up to the OP to provide further evidence (likes studies or more research articles from licensed nutritionists and experts) to provide some rationale for the argument against drinking cow milk.

Besides, the OP talked about the effects on the body. I don't dispute that cow farming contributes to changes in the environment (water sources contaminated, increased methane emissions, etc.). That is a well established consequence of our appetite for cow products (meat and milk). But that is not what is being discussed here.

If you have evidence to support the claim, by all means, share it.

tommy1808 wrote:

i guess in this day and age any discussion based on facts and scholarship is a scam.....

and the author of the blog post:

"certified Primal Health Coach"

error, does not compute... I have about 40 certifications in IT, radio, international trade and some other stuff, doesn't make me an expert on manufacturing micro-processors or radio antennas.

What the heck is Primal Health anyways?

And for "Facts" lets run down the article:

Point 1, no source given, even in the 3 sources at the bottom i can't find it

Point 2, the actual study isn't scientific, just statistical

Point 3, a statement that doesn't actually say drinking cows milk is bad, just that it may not prevent osteoporosis.

Point 4, ok this one be VERY careful with, the US is extremely bad for this but other countries do not allow as much. If this is the issue this is a totally different problem. Would need several very controlled scientific studies to look into, and there isn't one cited.

Point 5, 8 out of 10 unsourced, and pasteurization also gets rid of the extremely dangerous bacteria that is also there

Point 6, So we should be drinking only breast milk, got it. No one ever said you should trust any single source for your full nutritional needs? But that's basically what this point is going on about.

Yea sorry if this is the basis for your life decisions fine but it's waaaaaaay too flimsy to affect mine.

My view on all this is humans have been using cows milk for MILLENIA... not just centuries but 3000 years or more... hasn't ended the human race yet. More of us are surviving and are living longer than ever before, we are encountering more and more long term health issues because of it. Blaming things like cows milk for it is false flag statistics. Truth is there isn't a magic do or don't do health fix and there never will be. Medicine will keep improving but that means lifespan and survival rates go up again along with quality of life improving and again health issues appear and we have a cycle.

einsteinboricua wrote:

It's up to the OP to provide further evidence (likes studies or more research articles from licensed nutritionists and experts) to provide some rationale for the argument against drinking cow milk..

You mean like the nurses study linked in the blog Article? (Odd not to have all sources at the end and i don´t see how that one supports the conclusion,... but hey).

But you also have “Case-Control Study of Risk Factors for Hip Fractures in the Elderly”. American Journal of Epidemiology. Vol. 139, No. 5, 1994

Consumption of dairy products, particularly at age 20 years, was associated with an increased risk of hip fracture in old age.

But i´d rather call the overall data inconclusive, at least skimming through papers. However, Chemically it makes somewhat sense.

best regards
Thomas