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FreequentFlier
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 am

Jouhou wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Jouhou wrote:


Are you trying to get someone to pull the race card? I think that's what you're doing. So that you can accuse them of "pulling the race card" because I've seen a lot of trumpsters do this recently. But aha! Jokes on you, Trumps a person of color too! Orange. What do us libtards have against cheetohs?!!!


Not sure what race has to do with the points I brought up - perhaps you can elaborate. You're welcome to answer my question posed to seb though: do people like Donald Trump typically follow successful leaders who preceded them?


Actually it's usually simply a swing to the "opposite" to tell you the truth. The minority party gets fired up and roots for a 180 degree change in American politics. Whether that's the rational way to do things or not, it's a way of maintaining equilibrium. Unfortunately trump isn't even in the spectrum here. By the american definitions of liberalism and conservatism he is neither. He has no real political positions and where he does, the historic leaders he brings to mind are worrying at best. "Drain the Swamp" - Mussolini


I generally agree with the above which is why I'm asking: Do nations typically elect politicians outside the usual "norms" of politics following a very successful term of leadership?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7566
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:40 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
So you acknowledge it is happening in the US and not in the countries you mentioned?


Yes, of course. I am not in the business of rejecting fact like you.

Got it, your analogy was flawed and stupid. Point taken.


mmh.. let me check, did we talk about gay marriage, human rights in general or why a woman wasn´t elected. Oh, we didn´t talk about the first two.....

But i take your lack of a rebuttal as agreement that you only have gay marriage in the US because you have a halfway competent supreme court and a dated, but still not out of date constitution.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7566
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:01 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
Interesting. And yet no constant harping about the evils of the US for having that policy.


Why would i, there is enough empirical data to show that the legality status of abortions has pretty much no effect on the number of abortions. Different from gun control, that works just peachy, abortion control doesn´t work at all. I learned once that laws have to be proportional and able to achieve their goals in order to be valid, and anti abortion laws fail that test just as much as criminalizing drug abuse or ownership of drugs for personal use.

Anti-Abortion laws only serve to control women, they do jack diddly squat for the kids to be in question. Giving those women access to information about alternatives without preaching however does lower the number of abortions, being able to talk to friends and family about getting an abortion openly and without getting pushback also helps. Abortion numbers correlate nicely with religiosity, that is why the secular Europe has much less abortions than the religious USA. That is why planned parenthood is so important, they inform about alternatives to abortion, but don´t judge. They send you right to https://www.all-options.org/ .....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Jouhou
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:01 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Not sure what race has to do with the points I brought up - perhaps you can elaborate. You're welcome to answer my question posed to seb though: do people like Donald Trump typically follow successful leaders who preceded them?


Actually it's usually simply a swing to the "opposite" to tell you the truth. The minority party gets fired up and roots for a 180 degree change in American politics. Whether that's the rational way to do things or not, it's a way of maintaining equilibrium. Unfortunately trump isn't even in the spectrum here. By the american definitions of liberalism and conservatism he is neither. He has no real political positions and where he does, the historic leaders he brings to mind are worrying at best. "Drain the Swamp" - Mussolini


I generally agree with the above which is why I'm asking: Do nations typically elect politicians outside the usual "norms" of politics following a very successful term of leadership?


No, but they do when the missteps of that otherwise successful term was to let an adversary skilled in disinformation believe "redlines" will not be enforced, followed by a secretary of the state of that same administration who personally pissed off the leader of that adversary nation runs for president, primary candidates for the minority party are hardliners against that adversary... The counter propaganda arms of the US government were dismantled after the cold war. This left us defenseless against old soviet tactics.

You think I'm saying Hillary would have won? No, I'm saying Trump wouldn't have won the GOP primaries without help. Rubio has alluded to Russian meddling in their primary prior to the recent news. It's likely we'd have president Bush or Rubio if it wasn't for Russia.
Last edited by Jouhou on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
seb146
Posts: 16253
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:24 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Wait a minute - I thought Obama solved all these issues. Are you telling me he did not?

And let me pre-empt you (since you're very predictable) - he had a filibuster proof majority during his initial Presidency and could do whatever he wanted. He passed a failed health care bill, literally did nothing on immigration or gun control, and ran a stimulus package that resulted in him being the first US president in American history to never achieve a single year of 3% annual growth (despite exiting a recession when recovery periods typically result in faster growth)

If you want to know how you got Trump - Obama and his cadre of idiotic 20-something advisors like Jon Favreau, Ben Rhodes and Samantha Power are how you got Trump.

Which is why it's amusing that so many of our European friends - including the ones in this very thread - were so enamored by Obama. It's almost as if policy is irrelevant and mindless tribalism even transcends borders!

Be honest with yourself seb- does a successful Presidency typically get followed by a man like Donald Trump?


Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.


So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?


Because Democrats and "liberals" know that the terrorist organization NRA has too much money to defend the murder of children. Any time there is a mass murder of children (or anyone, really) you righties demand that we not do anything to stop it. We can not politicize the mass murder and you even go so far as to say people mourning over their loved ones were paid off. You all are sick and depraved and have no morals at all. You righties should be ashamed, but, again, you have no morals.

As far as the "blowhard idiot" comment, you righties need look no further than your own bathroom mirror. You all buy into this "lowest common denominator" opinion crap that calls themselves news and "fair and balanced" and you decide this idiot blowhard is better than an actual person who shows emotion and empathy. You get what you deserve. Crashing economy, money given to the rich, out of control deficit\s, stalled Congress with majorities in both chambers AND control of the courts and White House, veterans dying on the streets... all of that is on you all. As much as you love to blame Obama for all of your ills, it is all on you.

Those of us who understand there is no straight news in the United States tried to warn you low information righties, but you insisted you know better.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7566
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:29 am

seb146 wrote:
Because Democrats and "liberals" know that the terrorist organization NRA has too much money to defend the murder of children.


Imagevia Imgflip Meme Generator

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Jouhou
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:43 am

seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.


So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?


Because Democrats and "liberals" know that the terrorist organization NRA has too much money to defend the murder of children. Any time there is a mass murder of children (or anyone, really) you righties demand that we not do anything to stop it. We can not politicize the mass murder and you even go so far as to say people mourning over their loved ones were paid off. You all are sick and depraved and have no morals at all. You righties should be ashamed, but, again, you have no morals.

As far as the "blowhard idiot" comment, you righties need look no further than your own bathroom mirror. You all buy into this "lowest common denominator" opinion crap that calls themselves news and "fair and balanced" and you decide this idiot blowhard is better than an actual person who shows emotion and empathy. You get what you deserve. Crashing economy, money given to the rich, out of control deficit\s, stalled Congress with majorities in both chambers AND control of the courts and White House, veterans dying on the streets... all of that is on you all. As much as you love to blame Obama for all of your ills, it is all on you.

Those of us who understand there is no straight news in the United States tried to warn you low information righties, but you insisted you know better.


This one doesn't strike me as the low-information type. Just conservative. Please keep in mind many democrats/liberals are gun owners too. They might hate the NRA, but also would not want to give up their guns. They are a part of US culture, whether it's for hunting, "self defense", or liking things that go boom. Making any progress on the gun issue in particular requires a change in cultural values, not just law.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 2087
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:52 am

[quote="FreequentFlier"][/quote]

Do you think something needs to be done to reduce the numbers of deaths by gun violence in the United States?

A simple yes or no and we can work from there rather than making sideshows about other aspects of politics.

Fred



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
 
WIederling
Posts: 5899
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:39 am

WarRI1 wrote:
http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20180220/cartoon-about-fla-school-shootings-is-breaking-peoples-hearts


That is quite the choking presentation for the situation.

for the bible thumpers:
I see some parallels to the "King Solomon's Baby Decision"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Solomon

Only there is no wise king.

The liar gets away with half a baby
and the real mother can bury her half. .. and weep.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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zkojq
Posts: 3101
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:02 am

Cultural Relativism at its best. Too many Americans are inferior to Europeans. They are addicted to guns beyond logic, and still want more and more even though they cause them more and more harm. Too deluded to see the big picture; like an addict looking for their next hit.

The amount of mental gymnastics used to try and argue that gun violence has nothing to do with guns is ridiculous.

bagoldex wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

Amend the constitution then use whatever means necessary, including military force.


The 2A was made to prevent ignorant people like you from being in the government. You want to ban guns, forcibly remove them. How you going to do it, with guns. The irony.


Maybe a strategic drone strike or two to remind the most dangerous holdouts(gun-hoarding militia groups) who's boss.

:checkmark: This is why the argument that gun ownership protects freedom and holds the government accountable is such bullshit. As long as the government has A-10s, AH-64 Apaches, Cruise Missiles and whatever else at their disposal, they can crush you like a mosquito, regardless of how many AR-15s you might keep under your bed.

tommy1808 wrote:
Yeah.. we have more muggings and other not getting people killed stuff.... heck, you even kill more people in traffic (per billion km).
Looking at child mortality rates and life expectancy it is clear which side of the pond is better in keeping people alive.
The chance of a teenager being killed by a gone is almost 2 orders of magnitude higher in the US than here. https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/1/ ... ted-states

In whatever category the US is favored, they are inconsequential.


This is what happens when you run a country via democracy rather than via lobbyists and special interests! Problems get addressed, society reaps the benefits.

Kent350787 wrote:
I can only see things changing in the US with radicakl bilateral actions. And I can't see that happening. Sorry to the future gun crime victims, but your witless forebears sanctioned your nurder.

Maybe it will change once muslims or blacks start organising and forming armed protection groups. :lol: JK if that happens the gun industry will just use more fear tactics to try and sell scarred people more guns.

JJJ wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
I'm not convinced either society has found a way to identify its unstable members and protect the public.


We did identify him. The FBI didn't do anything about it.


And what would have they done. Shooting in your backyard is for the most part legal in many juridictions and had they gone further the screams of "gun grabbing government" would have been heard across the Atlantic.

Up to the point he went to shoot up a school he was just exercising his 2nd amendment rights.


DFWRevolution is just trying to deflect so that the problem can be blamed on the FBI rather than that morons have access to military grade firearms.
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Jouhou
Posts: 576
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 am

Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.

Mind you i'm gun neutral - getting rid of guns does not get rid of the underlying violence problem. Obviously there's common sense gun legislation that should have passed long ago. But we also have a society that beats kids (leading cause of sociopathy) and do literally nothing when they show mental illness. Instead of treating the mentally ill we let them commit crimes and go to prison.

Guns alone are not the problem. They're a factor in this nasty mix. I'm fine with guns going away but is that really going to fix the underlying problem?
Last edited by Jouhou on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2725
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:32 am

zkojq wrote:
JJJ wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

We did identify him. The FBI didn't do anything about it.


And what would have they done. Shooting in your backyard is for the most part legal in many juridictions and had they gone further the screams of "gun grabbing government" would have been heard across the Atlantic.

Up to the point he went to shoot up a school he was just exercising his 2nd amendment rights.


DFWRevolution is just trying to deflect so that the problem can be blamed on the FBI rather than that morons have access to military grade firearms.


Too bad his name was Nick Cruz instead of Mohammed Al-Qaedi.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2725
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:35 am

Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7566
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:35 am

JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


I have seen plenty of school kids asking for that help. To bad there is no international child protective services they can call....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
WIederling
Posts: 5899
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:28 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns.


I don't see too much mocking in that direction actually.

What I see is some hefty counters to "gun culture" ( that sounds like neolithic ribbon culture, doesn't it?)
mocking the sane part of their society to no end with various invectives and circuitous arguments.

Any neutral polls around ?

found this: http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
Interesting that back in the '80/'90ties demand for control was much more prevalent.
NRA building opinion was rather successful?
Murphy is an optimist
 
bennett123
Posts: 8019
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:39 pm

What I do not follow is this;

Why did the founding fathers refer to ‘a well regulated militia’ if they meant any citizen?.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7566
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:53 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What I do not follow is this;

Why did the founding fathers refer to ‘a well regulated militia’ if they meant any citizen?.


because they didn´t think the meaning of "bear arms" would get so distorted over time that people may come to the conclusion that is what it means. It is no coincidence that it took over 50 years before any court interpreted the law remotely the way it is seen today. The two generations of judges before them where probably still be well aware that "arms" and "weapons" are two completely different things.

Lumping the right to bear a coat of arms into the same Amendment than the well regulated Militia does make a lot of sense in this context.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Classic rightie: Blame Obama. This really is tiring. How long will you blame Obama for tRump's failings?

Let's not forget that, once the far right lunatics got a majority in the Senate, they refused to do anything. They keep claiming they are leaders but have done zero. Except blame Obama. In fact, it was YOUR crazy Senate "leader" Mitch McConnell who vowed to make Obama a one term president. That was the only thing he tried to do. He demanded his do-nothing cohorts do nothing to make Obama look bad. And that just made them look incompetent.

The only reason health care was reformed was because Democrats needed to compromise to get any kind of bill out of committee. It was a bad bill, but it was written to make it better. The right wing response? Just let everyone die and die quickly because health care is only for those who can afford it. That is what we are back to. Righties repealed and vowed to replace. Where is the replace?

Russia helped tRump get into office, along with the false narrative that we all hate Obama and we all need to hate Democrats and "liberals" because. You righties claim to know it all and constantly argue facts because they are from a "liberal" source or the source is biased for some reason. Simply because you righties want to keep your head buried in the sand and ignore and hate anyone who disagrees with you all.

With all of the hate and vitriol we heard toward Obama 2008-2016, along with right wingers watering down the Democrat's vote, yes, this is the president that YOU RIGHTIES deserve. The idiot in chief is NOT MY PRESIDENT. He does not represent ALL OF US, just you righties. Don't believe me? Look at what happened at this last school shooting. Righties reaction as well as the crybaby in chief.

And, let's not forget, a majority of Americans voted for Democrats, and 3,000,000 more voted for Hillary. The only way you righties can cling go power is lying and denying votes. You have nothing. November will be a big loss for you all because nothing has gotten done except blame Obama. And that is tired. And we are over it. You righties demanded "liberals" stop blaming Bush II in November 2008, so, why don't you do the same?

And, you still have not answered any of my questions. Just more blame, hate, and vitriol. Which is the only thing you righties can do.


So I preempted your incredibly predictable refrain and yet you still went with it anyway. I'll try again: if gun control is of utmost importance to the point that inaction on it is tantamount to "terrorism", why didn't Obama act on it when he had filibuster proof majorities seb? Stop with the deflection and just answer the question.

And if Obama was such a successful President, why is his successor a blowhard idiot like Donald Trump?


Because Democrats and "liberals" know that the terrorist organization NRA has too much money to defend the murder of children. Any time there is a mass murder of children (or anyone, really) you righties demand that we not do anything to stop it. We can not politicize the mass murder and you even go so far as to say people mourning over their loved ones were paid off. You all are sick and depraved and have no morals at all. You righties should be ashamed, but, again, you have no morals.

As far as the "blowhard idiot" comment, you righties need look no further than your own bathroom mirror. You all buy into this "lowest common denominator" opinion crap that calls themselves news and "fair and balanced" and you decide this idiot blowhard is better than an actual person who shows emotion and empathy. You get what you deserve. Crashing economy, money given to the rich, out of control deficit\s, stalled Congress with majorities in both chambers AND control of the courts and White House, veterans dying on the streets... all of that is on you all. As much as you love to blame Obama for all of your ills, it is all on you.

Those of us who understand there is no straight news in the United States tried to warn you low information righties, but you insisted you know better.


So nothing was done on gun control when Obama had a filibuster proof majority because some people might have said mean things about him? That's pretty pathetic seb.

Also, you might want to see your own mental health counselor - you are clearly one angry dude. Seek help.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:00 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:


Do you think something needs to be done to reduce the numbers of deaths by gun violence in the United States?

A simple yes or no and we can work from there rather than making sideshows about other aspects of politics.

Fred



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure, there are some things we can do, including going on offense, rather than just legislate defensively. I've answered previously, read earlier in the thread.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:07 pm

JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


No one asked for help from our resident anti US Europeans on this forum, but they sure seem incredibly eager to give it to us!

Guys, we're just not that into you.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:15 pm

WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns.


I don't see too much mocking in that direction actually.

What I see is some hefty counters to "gun culture" ( that sounds like neolithic ribbon culture, doesn't it?)
mocking the sane part of their society to no end with various invectives and circuitous arguments.


Then you clearly haven't bothered reading at least half this thread. The other half is calling 2nd Amendment supporters or the NRA "terrorists". Though to be fair, that technically isn't mockery, just over the top name calling.

Gee, it's almost as if people tune you out when you substitute mockery and bad faith for actual arguments! It's the Facebook and Twitter-izarion of our politics.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2725
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:17 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


No one asked for help from our resident anti US Europeans on this forum, but they sure seem incredibly eager to give it to us!

Guys, we're just not that into you.


OP apparently did. Plenty of Americans in the twittersphere have, too.

As a gun-loving and gun-using European I'm in the unique position to poke fun at American gun nuts AND European anti-gun nuts. And judging by the reactions both sides are equally sensitive.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:39 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:


Do you think something needs to be done to reduce the numbers of deaths by gun violence in the United States?

A simple yes or no and we can work from there rather than making sideshows about other aspects of politics.

Fred



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure, there are some things we can do, including going on offense, rather than just legislate defensively. I've answered previously, read earlier in the thread.


Not sure what you mean by "going on offense"? Is that like permissive vs prescriptive regulation?

Fred
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flipdewaf
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:53 pm

JJJ wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
JJJ wrote:

They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


No one asked for help from our resident anti US Europeans on this forum, but they sure seem incredibly eager to give it to us!

Guys, we're just not that into you.


OP apparently did. Plenty of Americans in the twittersphere have, too.

As a gun-loving and gun-using European I'm in the unique position to poke fun at American gun nuts AND European anti-gun nuts. And judging by the reactions both sides are equally sensitive.


I'm the same as you JJJ, I grew up shooting rifles and shotguns for "sport" (Rabbits and Pheasant) and pistols for genuine sport (targets). I kept my 410 for a bit after I moved out of my parents home but never really used it, if I ever used a gun I would borrow my fathers 10guage, but he stopped using it and now the only things remaining are my old LP300 and an air rifle of unknown origin for scaring pigeons away from the dove feed.

Fred
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:54 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
You're welcome to answer my question posed to seb though: do people like Donald Trump typically follow successful leaders who preceded them?

How many "people like Donald Trump" have you had as POTUS?
Call me naïve, but I thought he was a one-off - I'm certainly praying hard that there isn't going to be another one like him. Anywhere. Ever.

But that brings in a simple question of logic; as a one-off occurrence, he could have followed a successful previous President, a lousy previous President, Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.
A one-off occurrence does not define a trend.

Hell, LBJ followed JFK, but I don't know of anyone who judges JFK's time in office on what followed after him....

Tell me I'm wrong.
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WarRI1
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/781c0f95-f ... weets.html

Another mental midget. Imagine a grown man doing this? Hmmn! Obviously the old saying goes "The apple does not fall far from the tree"
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
WIederling
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:22 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
I generally agree with the above which is why I'm asking: Do nations typically elect politicians outside the usual "norms" of politics following a very successful term of leadership?


I suppose it is the other way around.

Conservative presidents with strangely fantastic agendas and programs are elected ... until they have run the thing into the ground.
The a DEM aka "progressive" is elected for repairs.
Reagan, Bush 1 and 2, Trump.
Murphy is an optimist
 
seb146
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:18 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns.


I don't see too much mocking in that direction actually.

What I see is some hefty counters to "gun culture" ( that sounds like neolithic ribbon culture, doesn't it?)
mocking the sane part of their society to no end with various invectives and circuitous arguments.


Then you clearly haven't bothered reading at least half this thread. The other half is calling 2nd Amendment supporters or the NRA "terrorists". Though to be fair, that technically isn't mockery, just over the top name calling.

Gee, it's almost as if people tune you out when you substitute mockery and bad faith for actual arguments! It's the Facebook and Twitter-izarion of our politics.


You righties twist yourselves into knots defending mass shooters in the United States. You righties squeal and wet yourselves when children are gunned down. You righties are cheered on by NRA, who owns elected officials. You righties demand the term "libtard" be acceptable but whine and cry and get all offended when it is pointed out how you all support terrorism and death and murder. Since Sandy Hook, when you were defending children being gunned down, you have had no right to call yourselves the defenders of life. You have had no right to call yourselves the party of family values for that and many other reasons.

Where was this rabid support of guns when Tamir Rice was murdered? He was simply exercising his Second Amendment rights, according to you ammosexuals.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
sevenair
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:59 pm

ITS interesting to see the left all having a big March and donating millions to a fund. Did they do this after SAN Bernadino or when a majority conservative audiences were massacred in Vegas?

Or perhaps the dozen or so radical Islamic terror attacks throughout Europe over the last two years?
If diversity really is our strength, why do you have such a fear of hearing diverse opinions or those who are differently opinionated?
 
bennett123
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:12 pm

What did the Right do then or now?.

If they do not want gun control perhaps they need to propose alternatives and be prepared to fund them.
Last edited by bennett123 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:20 pm

I don't think EUrope is currently in a position to lecture anyone about security. Americans die because of dogmatic interpretation of their constitutional amendment, Europeans are run over by trucks and gunned down because of dogmatic, neomarxist interpretation of "multikulti" and because of "wir schaffen das" mantra.
 
JJJ
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:18 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
I don't think EUrope is currently in a position to lecture anyone about security. Americans die because of dogmatic interpretation of their constitutional amendment, Europeans are run over by trucks and gunned down because of dogmatic, neomarxist interpretation of "multikulti" and because of "wir schaffen das" mantra.


What does one thing have to do with the other? US gun laws suck, Islamic terrorism sucks even more.

It should be noted that since the Boston marathon bombings 89 people have been killed in the US from Islamic terrorism compared to 342 in the EU. It's a much better record, but not overwhelmingly so.

OTOH 650 people were shot and killed in Chicago alone on 2017, and that was a 16% decrease from the year before.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:43 pm

JJJ wrote:
It should be noted that since the Boston marathon bombings 89 people have been killed in the US from Islamic terrorism compared to 342 in the EU. It's a much better record, but not overwhelmingly so.


Please note that within the EU in a historical perspective, there aren't that many people killed by terrorists. It wasn't Islamic than, Catholic, Protestants, Separatist, Communist and the like.

Sure, each and every person killed by a terrorist is one too many, but don't overreact to it and certainly not go to a very dark place....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:28 pm

JJJ wrote:
What does one thing have to do with the other?


That neither side has any moral standing to lecture the other. That's all.
 
jetero
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 pm

During White House meeting, typical Trump:

-Made Mikey Pence open up the conversation since he's incapable of saying anything measured (good move!)

-Has been looking at this for a long time

-Is going to go really strong, unlike people before him

-Is going to enact the best laws, only the best laws

-Going to go strong background

-Going to go strong age

-Going to go strong mental health and "sick, sick" people

He managed to get a couple of Stepford children to compliment him on his great leadership and the "great direction" he's taking the country in.

Samuel Zeit and several of the parents should be considered heroes.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:21 am

https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-se ... 54901.html


Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:39 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html


Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.


Trump = NRA

Not much in the way of intelligence between Trump & Trump Jr. Half a brain between them.
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 952
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:57 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html

Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.

The caption reads;
"President Donald Trump holds a listening session with students, parents and teachers in the State Dining Room at the White House February 21, 2018" (apparently that's in Washington DC - who knew?)
Image
Notice who is holding the microphone.
Notice who is doing the talking.
Now go figure who is doing all the listening at this "listening session"
:banghead:
(To me it seems like a fairly cosy event, so why does he even need a microphone? Stupid me; he's actually addressing a wider audience, and those poor suckers are mere props)
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
 
CCGPV
Posts: 595
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:17 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html

Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.

The caption reads;
"President Donald Trump holds a listening session with students, parents and teachers in the State Dining Room at the White House February 21, 2018" (apparently that's in Washington DC - who knew?)
Image
Notice who is holding the microphone.
Notice who is doing the talking.
Now go figure who is doing all the listening at this "listening session"
:banghead:
(To me it seems like a fairly cosy event, so why does he even need a microphone? Stupid me; he's actually addressing a wider audience, and those poor suckers are mere props)


I can see the froth coming from the sides of your mouth. Calm down. Its just a photograph dude. If you watched the meeting you would have seen the actual substance. You are the same as those people who saw Obama in traditional dress and used it as proof that he was a sleeper Muslim. You are just as dumb as those people.
I have all day.
 
seb146
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:19 am

CCGPV wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html

Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.

The caption reads;
"President Donald Trump holds a listening session with students, parents and teachers in the State Dining Room at the White House February 21, 2018" (apparently that's in Washington DC - who knew?)
Image
Notice who is holding the microphone.
Notice who is doing the talking.
Now go figure who is doing all the listening at this "listening session"
:banghead:
(To me it seems like a fairly cosy event, so why does he even need a microphone? Stupid me; he's actually addressing a wider audience, and those poor suckers are mere props)


I can see the froth coming from the sides of your mouth. Calm down. Its just a photograph dude. If you watched the meeting you would have seen the actual substance. You are the same as those people who saw Obama in traditional dress and used it as proof that he was a sleeper Muslim. You are just as dumb as those people.


And what about the original "meeting" where he is grinning like an idiot, giving the thumbs up before he spirited away to his golf resort to play golf again?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
CCGPV
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:23 am

seb146 wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
The caption reads;
"President Donald Trump holds a listening session with students, parents and teachers in the State Dining Room at the White House February 21, 2018" (apparently that's in Washington DC - who knew?)
Image
Notice who is holding the microphone.
Notice who is doing the talking.
Now go figure who is doing all the listening at this "listening session"
:banghead:
(To me it seems like a fairly cosy event, so why does he even need a microphone? Stupid me; he's actually addressing a wider audience, and those poor suckers are mere props)


I can see the froth coming from the sides of your mouth. Calm down. Its just a photograph dude. If you watched the meeting you would have seen the actual substance. You are the same as those people who saw Obama in traditional dress and used it as proof that he was a sleeper Muslim. You are just as dumb as those people.


And what about the original "meeting" where he is grinning like an idiot, giving the thumbs up before he spirited away to his golf resort to play golf again?


Classic Trump.

But what does that have to do with this? You made a false claim based on your hatred of the person and not what actually occurred. Now, if you are just venting and being silly then that's OK but constantly casting aspersions based on pure hatred makes you look like the kook-right did when they were doing the same with Obama.

Moderation starts with you.
I have all day.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:26 am

seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
WIederling wrote:

I don't see too much mocking in that direction actually.

What I see is some hefty counters to "gun culture" ( that sounds like neolithic ribbon culture, doesn't it?)
mocking the sane part of their society to no end with various invectives and circuitous arguments.


Then you clearly haven't bothered reading at least half this thread. The other half is calling 2nd Amendment supporters or the NRA "terrorists". Though to be fair, that technically isn't mockery, just over the top name calling.

Gee, it's almost as if people tune you out when you substitute mockery and bad faith for actual arguments! It's the Facebook and Twitter-izarion of our politics.


You righties twist yourselves into knots defending mass shooters in the United States. You righties squeal and wet yourselves when children are gunned down. You righties are cheered on by NRA, who owns elected officials. You righties demand the term "libtard" be acceptable but whine and cry and get all offended when it is pointed out how you all support terrorism and death and murder. Since Sandy Hook, when you were defending children being gunned down, you have had no right to call yourselves the defenders of life. You have had no right to call yourselves the party of family values for that and many other reasons.

Where was this rabid support of guns when Tamir Rice was murdered? He was simply exercising his Second Amendment rights, according to you ammosexuals.


There was no rabid anything with Tamir Rice. I will lay most responsibility on his parents why was this kid running around with a toy pistol in a park? But I will concede the cops should have been charged. Cops always get off I do have a problem with that.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:31 am

scbriml wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html


Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.


Trump = NRA

Not much in the way of intelligence between Trump & Trump Jr. Half a brain between them.


So what is your solution to this problem? Gun control? Good luck with that. Armed teachers? Yeah I will admit teachers have enough to do besides being the school enforcers. But you are not going to confiscate Americans guns so you better come up with a new plan.
 
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HELyes
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:37 am

787Driver wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, I really like visiting but I could never imagine living there and I don’t see how the average American has more opportunity. To me it seems the opposite is true.


:checkmark:

There's no perfect system but it seems the "American Dream" is easier to achieve in the Northern Europe than in US. Americans born into the lowest income quintile are much more likely to be stuck there, compared to the opportunities available in the Nordic Europe. Things like free college education, low cost health care and heavily subsidized child care support the upward social mobility, we have experienced this in my family too. And has made me a happier Finnish tax payer.
 
jetero
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:29 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html

Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.

The caption reads;
"President Donald Trump holds a listening session with students, parents and teachers in the State Dining Room at the White House February 21, 2018" (apparently that's in Washington DC - who knew?)
Image
Notice who is holding the microphone.
Notice who is doing the talking.
Now go figure who is doing all the listening at this "listening session"
:banghead:
(To me it seems like a fairly cosy event, so why does he even need a microphone? Stupid me; he's actually addressing a wider audience, and those poor suckers are mere props)


Bozo didn’t say much, other than his usual drivel, “we’re going to pass laws, but only the best laws, and there won’t be talk this time because we’re going to fix it, and it should’ve been fixed before, but now we’re going to do it, and this guy was a sick, sick person.” In usual Trump style he said that like 15 times—such a smarty! He had VP Mikey break the ice, then passed it off to Betsy who promised this was just the beginning of many conversations! Not sure he “listened,” but he didn’t speak over people. Your interpretation of the photo is unfair.

Well, wait, it’s totally fair that with a photo like that a reasonable person these days would jump to the conclusion that he’s bloviating as per ush.
Last edited by jetero on Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
jetero
Posts: 2550
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:30 am

stratosphere wrote:
scbriml wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html


Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.


Trump = NRA

Not much in the way of intelligence between Trump & Trump Jr. Half a brain between them.


So what is your solution to this problem? Gun control? Good luck with that. Armed teachers? Yeah I will admit teachers have enough to do besides being the school enforcers. But you are not going to confiscate Americans guns so you better come up with a new plan.


Out of your cold, dead hands, eh strato? Do you make these veiled threats often? You and your “Bathhouse Barry” contingent must be pretty worried about bringing mental fitness tests into consideration when it comes to the question of owning guns.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
JJJ wrote:
What does one thing have to do with the other?


That neither side has any moral standing to lecture the other. That's all.


please provide a comprehensive list of every EU or EU member state official that send a) thoughts and prayers and b) didn´t do anything after a terror attack..

Thank you.
best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7566
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:02 am

sevenair wrote:
ITS interesting to see the left all having a big March and donating millions to a fund. Did they do this after SAN Bernadino or when a majority conservative audiences were massacred in Vegas?


I don´t know what news media you consume, but obviously they failed to cover the outcry for gun control after Las Vegas.....

Or perhaps the dozen or so radical Islamic terror attacks throughout Europe over the last two years?


Can´t recall them sending thoughts, prayers or other utter useless stuff. But probably they are too busy, since they had more mass shooting events in December 2017 alone than Europe had terrorist attacks since Summer 2016 .....

And since you estimate the number of terror attacks in Europe to be a dozen in the last to years, you don´t seem to follow the news here very much either.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
JJJ
Posts: 2725
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
JJJ wrote:
What does one thing have to do with the other?


That neither side has any moral standing to lecture the other. That's all.


It doesn't work like that. Europe can lecture the US on gun laws that prevent shootings. Whether the US want to take advice is another entirely thing.

The US can hardly lecture Europe on how to deal with terrorism on the account that Europe has been fighting terrorism for far longer than the US and, even with a much smaller "suspect" population they have still managed to receive significant attacks post 9/11.

Immigration is a mixed bag. Sure, there's the whole refugee thing but as someone who used to work around LA each country has their own unsavoury imported elements.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:25 am

CCGPV wrote:
I can see the froth coming from the sides of your mouth. Calm down. Its just a photograph dude. If you watched the meeting you would have seen the actual substance. You are the same as those people who saw Obama in traditional dress and used it as proof that he was a sleeper Muslim. You are just as dumb as those people.

You can imagine the froth coming from the sides of my mouth if it makes you feel better, but usually I try to swallow my ale; a craft beer is simply too good to waste.

And here's a real shocker for you; I fully accept that
a) the photo cannot possibly represent the whole meeting
b) depending on who is presenting the photo, it can be a favourable representation, or a detrimental one, and all from the same meeting.
c) Trump himself probably didn't get a say as to what pictures were released/published.
d) such staged photo ops have been going on for years, long before Trump happened on the scene

So, a lot less froth than you originally imagined. TBH I'm just totally sick of the whole political charade. Trump's just the latest bozo/pin-up boy.

And if you want to tell me that this "Listening Session" genuinely involved the POTUS listening to legitimate grievances - well I'm hearing you! Honest to God! :spin:

But at the end of the day.... Trump does make it soooooo easy for everyone to sling muck, it's seems kinda rude not to. :lol:

ps - I don't recall seeing Obama in a dress; was he appealing to the LGBT vote or is there a side to him I missed?

pps - thanks for the personal insult at the end; or as somebody else commented; that was real classy
There are two things that happen when you get old.
1. You start to lose your memory.
2. What was I saying again?
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