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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:32 am

JJJ wrote:
It doesn't work like that. Europe can lecture the US on gun laws that prevent shootings. Whether the US want to take advice is another entirely thing.

The US can hardly lecture Europe on how to deal with terrorism on the account that Europe has been fighting terrorism for far longer than the US and, even with a much smaller "suspect" population they have still managed to receive significant attacks post 9/11.


Can you elaborate on that? Who has the smaller "suspect" population? How do you define it, and what are the actual numbers? I'll settle for broad approximations; I'm genuinely interested in understanding this line of argument.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:08 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
JJJ wrote:
It doesn't work like that. Europe can lecture the US on gun laws that prevent shootings. Whether the US want to take advice is another entirely thing.

The US can hardly lecture Europe on how to deal with terrorism on the account that Europe has been fighting terrorism for far longer than the US and, even with a much smaller "suspect" population they have still managed to receive significant attacks post 9/11.


Can you elaborate on that? Who has the smaller "suspect" population? How do you define it, and what are the actual numbers? I'll settle for broad approximations; I'm genuinely interested in understanding this line of argument.


The context was Islamic/Jihadist/etc terrorism. And the quotes on "suspect" are there for a reason.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6271
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:19 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
b) depending on who is presenting the photo, it can be a favourable representation,
or a detrimental one, and all from the same meeting.


body language cues appear as "terrible".
that in an enviroment of tight release control and forced "all smiles".

The three young people look decidedly unconfortable and "closed". There has been no dialog afaics.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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kasimir
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:07 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:51 pm

Not sure if it was mentioned already, but you guys saw the tweet of Don:
"I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue - I hope!"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

How is this possible that Donald (a REPUBLICAN president) is pushing gun control and limitations on gun ownership????

All this, while we were hearing during the Obama years from the right wing that "he wants to take our guns", and same thing went on during the Hillary campaign... How is the right wing and conservatives cool with this? This actually means that Don will take your guns!
 
jetero
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:28 pm

kasimir wrote:
Not sure if it was mentioned already, but you guys saw the tweet of Don:
"I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue - I hope!"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

How is this possible that Donald (a REPUBLICAN president) is pushing gun control and limitations on gun ownership????

All this, while we were hearing during the Obama years from the right wing that "he wants to take our guns", and same thing went on during the Hillary campaign... How is the right wing and conservatives cool with this? This actually means that Don will take your guns!


Oh it won't go anywhere, I'm sure. He's betting on people forgetting in a month.

Or they'll pass some "Anti-Sicko Teacher Gun Act."
 
jetero
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:32 pm

I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to

....immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions. Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A “gun free” school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!

....History shows that a school shooting lasts, on average, 3 minutes. It takes police & first responders approximately 5 to 8 minutes to get to site of crime. Highly trained, gun adept, teachers/coaches would solve the problem instantly, before police arrive. GREAT DETERRENT!

....If a potential “sicko shooter” knows that a school has a large number of very weapons talented teachers (and others) who will be instantly shooting, the sicko will NEVER attack that school. Cowards won’t go there...problem solved. Must be offensive, defense alone won’t work!


The Tweetin' Bozo this AM. Solve the problem with more guns. The 20% of teachers with guns will be able to be notified, grab their guns, and respond successfully in 3 minutes to someone with an AR-15. Now there's some logic!

See, he has no interest in solving the problem . . .
 
jetero
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:56 pm

Wayne LaPierre just spoke at CPAC, calling people arguing for gun control after the FL shooting "opportunists" and Democrats "socialists" who hate the Bill of Rights and are only starting with the second amendment. Still he said people with "mental health issues" should never own a gun, so I hope by that standard he gets his taken away because he is a certifiable nutcase.

Am sure Bozo will be tweeting "Great speech Wayne--your Second Amendment rights are safe with me" within the next couple of hours.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:57 pm

jetero wrote:
Wayne LaPierre just spoke at CPAC, calling people arguing for gun control after the FL shooting "opportunists" and Democrats "socialists" who hate the Bill of Rights and are only starting with the second amendment. Still he said people with "mental health issues" should never own a gun, so I hope by that standard he gets his taken away because he is a certifiable nutcase.

Am sure Bozo will be tweeting "Great speech Wayne--your Second Amendment rights are safe with me" within the next couple of hours.

Why is CPAC a gun free zone? Why is terrorist LaPierre afraid of being surrounded by open carry ammosexuals like himself?

kasimir wrote:
How is this possible that Donald (a REPUBLICAN president) is pushing gun control and limitations on gun ownership????

All this, while we were hearing during the Obama years from the right wing that "he wants to take our guns", and same thing went on during the Hillary campaign... How is the right wing and conservatives cool with this? This actually means that Don will take your guns!

...because his handlers lost control of our demented weeble wobble for a minute and he tweeted something that wasn't NRA approved
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetero
Posts: 3418
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:06 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
kasimir wrote:
How is this possible that Donald (a REPUBLICAN president) is pushing gun control and limitations on gun ownership????

All this, while we were hearing during the Obama years from the right wing that "he wants to take our guns", and same thing went on during the Hillary campaign... How is the right wing and conservatives cool with this? This actually means that Don will take your guns!

...because his handlers lost control of our demented weeble wobble for a minute and he tweeted something that wasn't NRA approved


The mere thought that considering background checks and banning bump stocks constitutes "gun control" shows us just how far the country is up the NRA's a*s.
 
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kasimir
Posts: 292
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:25 pm

jetero wrote:
kasimir wrote:
Not sure if it was mentioned already, but you guys saw the tweet of Don:
"I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue - I hope!"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

How is this possible that Donald (a REPUBLICAN president) is pushing gun control and limitations on gun ownership????

All this, while we were hearing during the Obama years from the right wing that "he wants to take our guns", and same thing went on during the Hillary campaign... How is the right wing and conservatives cool with this? This actually means that Don will take your guns!


Oh it won't go anywhere, I'm sure. He's betting on people forgetting in a month.

Or they'll pass some "Anti-Sicko Teacher Gun Act."


Oh, I understand that as well, and how the chances of this happening, has to be seen ... For me, it's about the fact that he put it out there in writing on twitter. So, it's official and he cannot claim that he didn't say this (like with the sh*thole comment behind closed doors).
He might be hoping that everybody forgets it, but hopefully the media will remind him and the americans about this tweet once in a while. And whenever next time a democrat is ridiculed or attacked because of his/her gun control proposals, let's just remind the republicans and their followers, that Trump "strongly" supports gun control...
 
jetero
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:43 pm

jetero wrote:
Wayne LaPierre just spoke at CPAC, calling people arguing for gun control after the FL shooting "opportunists" and Democrats "socialists" who hate the Bill of Rights and are only starting with the second amendment. Still he said people with "mental health issues" should never own a gun, so I hope by that standard he gets his taken away because he is a certifiable nutcase.

Am sure Bozo will be tweeting "Great speech Wayne--your Second Amendment rights are safe with me" within the next couple of hours.


And here we go:

What many people don’t understand, or don’t want to understand, is that Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
 
jetero
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:46 pm

kasimir wrote:
Oh, I understand that as well, and how the chances of this happening, has to be seen ... For me, it's about the fact that he put it out there in writing on twitter. So, it's official and he cannot claim that he didn't say this (like with the sh*thole comment behind closed doors).


Oh Kasimir, buddy, you haven't been paying attention for the past couple of years!!!!! This administration has lying in its DNA.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 730857001/

kasimir wrote:
He might be hoping that everybody forgets it, but hopefully the media will remind him and the americans about this tweet once in a while. And whenever next time a democrat is ridiculed or attacked because of his/her gun control proposals, let's just remind the republicans and their followers, that Trump "strongly" supports gun control...


That's when you blame someone else . . . in this case it's already started by calling mass murderers Democrats.

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/ ... -democrats

And Junior is out doing his thang . . .

https://nypost.com/2018/02/20/trump-jr- ... -survivor/
 
seb146
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:56 pm

Does anyone remember a couple of years ago when Republicans were screaming about protecting children in public bathrooms? Remember when the safety of children was their top priority? Why did they suddenly forget that protecting children is their thing?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:04 pm

Republicans in the US would always take the European example and run the oppostie way.

Case in point.

Republican solution to higher tax deficits. Cut Taxes
Republican solution to more shootings and less funding for teachers. More guns for teachers, with bonuses paid from less taxes.

Lunacy is the key to understanding the GOP.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11753
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:34 pm

JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


Euros here do it endlessly as a way to make them feel better about themselves Like I said before we don't want to be like Europe but thanks for your suggestions about your utopia.

Nobody here is OK with kids getting shot. It's just that we don't want our rights trampled by the anti gun zealots every time it happens.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
JJJ
Posts: 2884
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:01 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


Euros here do it endlessly as a way to make them feel better about themselves. Like I said before we don't want to be like Europe but thanks for your suggestions about your utopia.


OP is an American AFAIK. So for certain values of we you're wrong.

And recent poll results are consistent with this.

More Americans Than Ever Support Stricter Gun Control Laws, Poll Finds
http://time.com/5167216/americans-gun-c ... poll-2018/
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:02 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Nobody here is OK with kids getting shot. It's just that we don't want our rights trampled by the anti gun zealots every time it happens.

What do you think is a effective, viable and pragmatic way of achieving this?

The two ends of the spectrum for this would be "gun grabbing" which I don't think anyone has really suggested and "arming the children" which of course is ridiculous on the their end?

Fred



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jetero
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


Euros here do it endlessly as a way to make them feel better about themselves Like I said before we don't want to be like Europe but thanks for your suggestions about your utopia.

Nobody here is OK with kids getting shot. It's just that we don't want our rights trampled by the anti gun zealots every time it happens.


"Rights" as defined as the right to buy an automatic weapon with minimum restrictions or to use bump stocks.

Someone else's "right" to live does not enter that debate.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:42 am

stratosphere wrote:
scbriml wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/listening-session-school-shootings-trump-urges-giving-teachers-guns-235554901.html


Not less guns. but more guns is tRumps answer to this calamity, where have we heard this before? I guess we need to hire only military trained teachers now. Pistol packing teachers is the answer. Will they wear them on their hips, hide them in their brassieres, that is yet to be worked out I guess.


Trump = NRA

Not much in the way of intelligence between Trump & Trump Jr. Half a brain between them.


So what is your solution to this problem? Gun control? Good luck with that. Armed teachers? Yeah I will admit teachers have enough to do besides being the school enforcers. But you are not going to confiscate Americans guns so you better come up with a new plan.



There are plenty of things to do without (confiscation), a term the right side screamed for eight years of Obama. We now find the villains are still Obama and the FBI and the schools. Age requirements, background checks, real ones. Sales regulations, some banning, real ones , not full of loopholes and magazine regulations and others. Hardening the schools is a joke as we saw with the Deputy on guard at the latest massacre, he did nothing. Investigation ongoing. So much for guns in schools, there was one and trained personel too.

Guns do kill people more efficiently than people so the types and the amount of ammunition they can expend need curbing. I find the NRA quite adept at propaganda, using those old tired cliches of theirs. When I watch their minions I think of all the historical figures who screamed and blamed others for their transgressions. There a ton of those folks in the history books. Look them up. Screamers all. Blamer's all and not one of them ended up doing anything but hurting others by the millions.

As I have said before, I am a gun owner, have been for many years. I do not nor will not, nor have not ever belonged to the NRA. I have gone to their gun raffles to see how they operate and they are greedy money scrounging people, using scare tactics, pushing fear and Patriotism. They scrounge every dime they can and push donated goods, many of them foreign made to raise millions. Despicable people dealing with gullible people.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:25 am

A Bad example for the whole world....

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — The school resource deputy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School waited outside the school building as the shooting unfolded last Wednesday. Scot Peterson, the deputy, never went in after taking a position on the west side of the building, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said in a news conference.

The SRO, Scot Peterson resigned on Thursday, Feb. 22nd after he was suspended by the Sheriff pending an internal investigation into his actions, the Sheriff said.

http://pix11.com/2018/02/22/deputy-on-d ... g-sheriff/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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scbriml
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:03 am

stratosphere wrote:
So what is your solution to this problem? Gun control? Good luck with that. Armed teachers? Yeah I will admit teachers have enough to do besides being the school enforcers. But you are not going to confiscate Americans guns so you better come up with a new plan.


There is no simple solution and anyone who thinks there is, is deluded. It would take a lot of small steps and some of them would be difficult. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken or even tried. More guns in schools will only result in more shootings in schools (it will only be a matter of time before an armed teacher loses it big-time and massacres a whole class) - anyone who can't see that is just being dumb.

Any suggestion of implementing sensible gun laws is normally met with the usual cries of "2nd Amendment", "My rights" and "Cold, dead hands". That's after anyone who suggest any form of gun control is first called "a gun-grabbing libtard" by the usual suspects.

First up, it needs to be admitted that America has a gun problem. If you can't even admit that there's a problem, then nothing will change. Anyone who can read can see that the statistics don't lie - gun death rates are directly proportional to the ease of availability of guns. More guns doesn't reduce the rate of gun deaths, it has the opposite affect.

There needs to be an honest and open debate about the issue and agreement on some first steps to help address the issues. Want or need a hand-gun to protect yourself and your family? Fine, you have that right under the 2nd amendment. I honestly don't understand why you need it (nobody does in the UK), but fine, no problem (see, no gun grabbing here!)

However, who needs an AR-15 with a bump-stock to do their shopping in Wallmart? Who actually needs an AR-15 with a bump-stock? Want to let off steam at a gun range with an AR-15 with a bump-stock? Fine, go shoot up some bottles and paper targets, but leave the AR-15 at the range, you don't need it in your house.

Then, start looking at mental health issues and the ease of acquiring guns. As I said, small steps towards a scenario where sensible guns controls are in place (like waiting 7-10 days before you get your gun). Then start the next discussion...

Will any of this stop gun deaths overnight? Of course not, but nothing will change if you do nothing and more and more innocent kids will be murdered while they're at school.

If kids being gunned to death at school doesn't start alarm bells ringing in your head....
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:10 am

So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
tommy1808
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:14 am

NIKV69 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Mocking US gun culture is a far cry from getting Americans to reassess their relationship with guns. That shit really isn't helping.


They're an adult nation, if they're OK with schoolkids getting shot every now and then it's their prerogative. If they wanted help they'd ask for it.


Euros here do it endlessly as a way to make them feel better about themselves Like I said before we don't want to be like Europe but thanks for your suggestions about your utopia.


well,... if you like your current level of violence, you can move to Afghanistan or Somalia, where the level of violence is just a touch higher that in your war torn country. You have a minority opinion on the issue: http://time.com/5167216/americans-gun-c ... poll-2018/

Most Americans want a bit more of that Utopia.

Nobody here is OK with kids getting shot.


People that care take action, the GOP, you and so many more don´t. Saying that you care isn´t the same as caring.

It's just that we don't want our rights trampled by the anti gun zealots every time it happens.


Judges can not give rights, the constitution doesn´t have that right in it. The lack of gun control in the US is unconstitutional, and if you ever get a supreme court without NRA bribed activist judges, they will probably rule according to what the 2nd amendment actually means. Those kids getting shot are having their rights trampled, not the gun zealots.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:18 am

It appears there was a good guy with a gun at the school, deputy Scott Petersen, he responded to the shooting by standing at the door of the building and not going inside. 17 kids died whilst this trained good guy with a gun did nothing.

The armed deputy who was on campus at Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school when a gunman massacred 17 people stood outside the building as it occurred and did not go in to engage the shooter, the Broward County sheriff, Scott Israel, said on Thursday.

Deputy Scott Peterson, who was the school resource officer at Stoneman Douglas in Parkland, Florida, resigned from the department on Thursday after being told he would be suspended, Israel said.
 
seb146
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:35 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting


There would be fewer. And, if we had affordable health care, that would help.

If people want to shoot that many rounds per minute, join the Army.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:36 am

seb146 wrote:
If people want to shoot that many rounds per minute, join the Army.


considering that good guys with a gun almost never interfere with bad guys with guns, the Army isn´t the right place for them. I have the feeling they don´t want cowards.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:42 am

seb146 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting


There would be fewer. And, if we had affordable health care, that would help.

If people want to shoot that many rounds per minute, join the Army.


Couldn't agree more on the need for affordable health care in the US. The private and Govt. insurance system we have here in the US perversely keeps all costs artificially inflated. We need a cap on what any procedure can cost, a proper rate, that would be charged, whether it was Primacare or at the Big Hospital down the road, for Doctor services, supplies, and medications, etc.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
tommy1808
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:03 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
We need a cap on what any procedure can cost, a proper rate, that would be charged, whether it was Primacare or at the Big Hospital down the road, for Doctor services, supplies, and medications, etc.


Wasn´t that part of the original Obama care proposal, using that enormous negotiating power to get costs down, and was negotiated away by the GOP? It seems something along those lines is in the back of my memory.

But yeah, the WarR1s wifes Asthma Spay cost some 50 times more than the same active ingredient and dosage in Germany is a problem (here the insurances do in fact tell providers how much they will pay and that is a take it or leave it deal).

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
JJJ
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:23 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting


At least here Mr. Cho wouldn't have passed the medical to get a gun license. And hollow points for handguns are illegal, too.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:55 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting

Well that isn't actually what was said. In fact Scribml made a point of noting that that isn't what he was saying so congratulations you manged to get to number one on schopenhauer 38 stratagems.

Maybe I'll go straight to 38 and say maybe the reason you are worried about any increased regulation is that you won't be able to read the forms.

Fred
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:02 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

Is that comment really how you want to be remembered by us on a.net?

Wikipedia wrote:
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.
The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition and the subsequent refutation of that false argument instead of the opponent's proposition.

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or an understanding of both sides of the issue.


".... more valued than critical thinking or an understanding of both sides of the issue" :banghead:

In case you still require an answer to your "question"; it's not AR-15s that create school mass shooting incidents, it's the kind of people who think they really need an AR-15 that are the problem. Please tell me I'm wrong, but your argument suggests that you are one of those people.

Would somebody please pass me a barf bag; I think I'm going to throw-up.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 15697
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:53 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, if there were no AR-15s, there would be no more school mass shootings at all ??? :scratchchin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_shooting


This is exactly why it's impossible to have a sensible debate. Well done, bravo!

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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:13 pm

How was killer able to get around school security?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/browa ... story.html

Feb. 16th Sun Sentinel

Accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had been expelled from the school for behavioral problems, arrived on campus about 20 minutes before the school day ended. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them. He came when he knew the gates would be open and set off a fire alarm that would dismantle a safety system, officials say. As a result, doors that would have otherwise remained shut were being opened by students, making it easier for the gunman to find victims, experts say.

Cruz shot victims in 7 classrooms in Building 12, the "freshman building", a three-story structure containing 30 classrooms typically occupied by about 900 students and 30 teachers on the north side of campus, Broward Sheriff’s Office officials say.

--------------------------------------

At least one Florida lawmaker is calling for Scot Peterson to be denied his pension and benefits.

Coral Springs State Rep. Jared Moskowitz, issued a strong statement Thursday, calling Peterson's actions "reprehensible and unforgivable."

"I’m calling on the Governor, the Senate President, and the Speaker of the House to work with me and ensure Deputy Scott Peterson is not rewarded for his negligent inaction and his failure to protect our children. His failure to act cost students their lives and for that, he should not be entitled to a pension or any benefits.”
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
WIederling
Posts: 6271
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:32 pm

jetero wrote:
"Rights" as defined as the right to buy an automatic weapon with minimum restrictions or to use bump stocks.

Someone else's "right" to live does not enter that debate.


yup.
All your rights stop half way to the next person. :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:43 pm

WIederling wrote:
jetero wrote:
"Rights" as defined as the right to buy an automatic weapon with minimum restrictions or to use bump stocks.

Someone else's "right" to live does not enter that debate.


yup.
All your rights stop half way to the next person. :-)

Not if you have access to a gun.
Then it becomes a case of my rights are more important than yours, and here is my gun to prove it.

It's really not that difficult to work out why these characters need their toys.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
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bgm
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:46 pm

This is what the NRA/GOP/Ammosexuals want US schools to look like:

Image
When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat. - George Carlin
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8134
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:53 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
"I’m calling on the Governor, the Senate President, and the Speaker of the House to work with me and ensure Deputy Scott Peterson is not rewarded for his negligent inaction and his failure to protect our children. His failure to act cost students their lives and for that, he should not be entitled to a pension or any benefits.”


The democrats just need to swap out a few words and they have a nice slogan to get GOP representatives voted out.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
jetero
Posts: 3418
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:30 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
At least one Florida lawmaker is calling for Scot Peterson to be denied his pension and benefits.

Coral Springs State Rep. Jared Moskowitz, issued a strong statement Thursday, calling Peterson's actions "reprehensible and unforgivable."

"I’m calling on the Governor, the Senate President, and the Speaker of the House to work with me and ensure Deputy Scott Peterson is not rewarded for his negligent inaction and his failure to protect our children. His failure to act cost students their lives and for that, he should not be entitled to a pension or any benefits.”


Absolutely ridiculous. Leave the grandstanding retributionism to the Republicans, Jared.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:06 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
How was killer able to get around school security?

Accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had been expelled from the school for behavioral problems, arrived on campus about 20 minutes before the school day ended. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them. He came when he knew the gates would be open and set off a fire alarm that would dismantle a safety system, officials say. As a result, doors that would have otherwise remained shut were being opened by students, making it easier for the gunman to find victims, experts say


So basically the school already spent a lot of money on security, that proved ineffective.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
bagoldex
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:18 pm

Came across this on Twitter. Simple and to the point ...

Proposal for new gun purchase application:

1) Do you want an assault rifle?
2) If you answered yes to #1, sorry you are mentally unstable and cannot purchase a gun.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8108
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:48 pm

The suggestions by President Trump make sense.

No Bump Stocks, age limits for owning Assault Rifles etc.

My understanding is that he can not propose legislation, meaning that now a Congressman needs to bring forward appropriate legislation.

That is something to look forward to.
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 1424
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:02 pm

Aesma wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
How was killer able to get around school security?

Accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had been expelled from the school for behavioral problems, arrived on campus about 20 minutes before the school day ended. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them. He came when he knew the gates would be open and set off a fire alarm that would dismantle a safety system, officials say. As a result, doors that would have otherwise remained shut were being opened by students, making it easier for the gunman to find victims, experts say


So basically the school already spent a lot of money on security, that proved ineffective.


It wasn't airtight security. That only costs extra Billions in manpower to cover every school in America.

But, we don't have, nor do we need a "Federal National Education System" in America. Public education is left up to local area/states. This is not Mother Russia, nor do I want it to be.

I've got it.... why don't we slash out Defense Budget to the bone, leave off being a Military Superpower, and use those Billions for Education and other stuff. We'll leave being a Military Superpower for the good of the world to.... Communist China. We'll let's see how that works out IN THE LONG RUN! :shock:
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
jetero
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:10 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
But, we don't have, nor do we need a "Federal National Education System" in America. Public education is left up to local area/states. This is not Mother Russia, nor do I want it to be.


Unless run by Falwell Junior?
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:14 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
It wasn't airtight security. That only costs extra Billions in manpower to cover every school in America.

I've got it.... why don't we slash out Defense Budget to the bone, leave off being a Military Superpower, and use those Billions for Education and other stuff.

Finally, some common sense. Although slashing the budget absolutely "to the bone" might be a tad drastic; most of us here would only propose a reasonable cut in US defense spending. But that would still release billions to make America a better place #MABP™

Oh hang on; I fell for it again - you're not serious; you are just setting up a straw man. (again....) :banghead:
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 11331
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:25 am

bgm wrote:
This is what the NRA/GOP/Ammosexuals want US schools to look like:

Image


Well done and said, that about covers tRumps policies and the NRA. I like your artistic abilities also.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
seb146
Posts: 17308
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:42 am

I may have asked this before, so forgive me but wasn't there a huge national debate on protecting children from being molested in bathrooms from men wearing dresses? There were several states that proposed and passed laws to protect the children, right? The whole idea was that children are precious and to be protected from perverts in the bathrooms putting on dresses and committing unspeakable acts on children. Where is that same concern for the well being of children after this latest mass shooting?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11753
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:57 am

jetero wrote:
Wayne LaPierre just spoke at CPAC, calling people arguing for gun control after the FL shooting "opportunists" and Democrats "socialists" who hate the Bill of Rights and are only starting with the second amendment.


He happens to be right.

Dems will not sign any legislation that doesn't include a ban on semi auto weapons. Look at immigration. GOP is ready to pass a bill that gives Dreamers already here that haven't committed crimes a path to becoming citizens. Dems won't even talk about it because their vision is to have a weak border where more of them can flood into here. Like their vision of a US with no guns.

It's plain to see where the base of the Democratic party stands. Yet you ignore it.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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casinterest
Posts: 6575
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:12 am

NIKV69 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Wayne LaPierre just spoke at CPAC, calling people arguing for gun control after the FL shooting "opportunists" and Democrats "socialists" who hate the Bill of Rights and are only starting with the second amendment.


He happens to be right.

Dems will not sign any legislation that doesn't include a ban on semi auto weapons. Look at immigration. GOP is ready to pass a bill that gives Dreamers already here that haven't committed crimes a path to becoming citizens. Dems won't even talk about it because their vision is to have a weak border where more of them can flood into here. Like their vision of a US with no guns.

It's plain to see where the base of the Democratic party stands. Yet you ignore it.



No , Wayne LaPierre, is a angry foolish man. People that want gun control are intelligent. We already have proof that having an armed and trained first responder does not guarantee a good outcome.

Wayne's understanding of he 2nd amendment trumps his understanding of the Preamble, which says WE THE PEOPLE.

Here it is for you and the short sighted folks like Wayne LePierre that believe you have a "Trump" on the Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And the NINTH AMENDMENT as well.


Article [IX] (Amendment 9 - Unenumerated Rights)
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This one includes life,liberty,and the pursuit of Happiness, which is part of the inalienable rights in the declaration of independence.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
seb146
Posts: 17308
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:45 am

Why does someone need semi-automatic weapons?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11753
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:49 am

tommy1808 wrote:
The democrats just need to swap out a few words and they have a nice slogan to get GOP representatives voted out.

best regards
Thomas


Yea too bad words like Bigot, Racist and Predator didn't work and handed them the worst defeat in political history. Maybe they should stop with the propaganda and actually try to lead maybe people will vote for them.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
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