• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 12
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:22 am

Every single day Russia is revealed as being suspected in having their hands in every damn thing that goes wrong in the world.
Today it was this.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-spies-hacked-the-olympics-and-tried-to-make-it-look-like-north-korea-did-it-us-officials-say/2018/02/24/44b5468e-18f2-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?utm_term=.6b749fbfc1a5

So they are suspected of selling NK their weapons designs and then they try provoking more tensions with them. This is ridiculous.

I'm so sick of russia. I have never felt so much hatred towards one country. Why is anyone still defending Russia? Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)? Why isn't the world doing more to stop them? Do you really think it's just the US it is hurting? Why isn't the UK investigating whether Russia had a hand in Brexit? Brexit has been #1 on Russia's wish list for a long time.
 
jetero
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:39 am

For whatever reason people aren’t talking much about this

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek ... 47%3famp=1

(Certainly not the President. But that’s OK, Bill Clinton said he didn’t have sex with Monica Lewinsky, so Trumpy can do whatever he wants.)
Last edited by jetero on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:41 am

They've always punched way above their weight-class. That's one of the benefits of a centrally-planned economy.

That said, who are these people defending Russia? Pretty much everyone I talk thinks Russia sucks in just about every way possible.
Stay curious
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:47 am

jetero wrote:
For whatever reason people aren’t talking much about this

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek ... 47%3famp=1


I think because everyone knows Syria is a proxy war, we're just not sure who's side anyone is on. I'm actually angrier at Turkey right now when it comes to the mess in Syria. Seriously, why is everyone so hell bent on committing acts of genocide on kurds?
 
jetero
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:47 am

CCGPV wrote:
They've always punched way above their weight-class. That's one of the benefits of a centrally-planned economy.


I did a double take ... but I guess you’re right. How ironic. Some things never change, I guess.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:52 am

CCGPV wrote:
They've always punched way above their weight-class. That's one of the benefits of a centrally-planned economy.

That said, who are these people defending Russia? Pretty much everyone I talk thinks Russia sucks in just about every way possible.


Alex Jones fans and this similar but not as nutty variety of conservative that watches RT. Also far leftists that watch RT. And European nations that keep capitulating to them because of their dependence on russian fossil fuels. Etc.
 
jetero
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:30 am

Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:
For whatever reason people aren’t talking much about this

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek ... 47%3famp=1


I think because everyone knows Syria is a proxy war, we're just not sure who's side anyone is on.


Well you’d think Mr “If-You-Don’t-Stand-for-the-National-Anthem-at-a-Football-Game-You’re-Disrespecting-the-Troops” might want to say something about Russian mercenaries attacking US troops.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:33 am

I'm of the opinion that both sides should stop ruining things.

The world is in a constant state of flux since 2001 with no signs of stopping thanks to the actions from both the US & Russia. It's a bit tiresome to be honest.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:04 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm of the opinion that both sides should stop ruining things.

The world is in a constant state of flux since 2001 with no signs of stopping thanks to the actions from both the US & Russia. It's a bit tiresome to be honest.


You sound like our president. Only one side is in control of both sides right now, and it ain't the US.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:07 am

jetero wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:
For whatever reason people aren’t talking much about this

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek ... 47%3famp=1


I think because everyone knows Syria is a proxy war, we're just not sure who's side anyone is on.


Well you’d think Mr “If-You-Don’t-Stand-for-the-National-Anthem-at-a-Football-Game-You’re-Disrespecting-the-Troops” might want to say something about Russian mercenaries attacking US troops.


The guy is either in bed with Putin or a useful idiot, emphasis on idiot. What do you expect? He's never going to say anything bad about Russia.
 
jetero
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:31 am

Jouhou wrote:
The guy is either in bed with Putin.


This is actually a complete possibility! Like multiplying Hillary e-mails by multiple orders of magnitude!

But, it's all OK because (1) all politicians lie; and (2) Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:47 am

Since the end of the Cold War who has started and participated in the majority of the world wars, who gave rise to the Talaban and ISIL, I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t them.

Russia being involved in Brexit is a big leap, Brexit was a typically British cockup, they only have themselves to blame.
 
jetero
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:51 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Since the end of the Cold War who has started and participated in the majority of the world wars, who gave rise to the Talaban and ISIL, I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t them.

Russia being involved in Brexit is a big leap, Brexit was a typically British cockup, they only have themselves to blame.


It's been a long time that I have been out of rhetoric classes.

But there is a fallacy that's increasingly, frightfully prevalent these days.

"If someone else did it before me, it's OK. If you want to blame anyone, blame them."

Is there anyone who can remind me the name of that logical fallacy?
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:20 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Since the end of the Cold War who has started and participated in the majority of the world wars, who gave rise to the Talaban and ISIL, I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t them.

Russia being involved in Brexit is a big leap, Brexit was a typically British cockup, they only have themselves to blame.


You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.

ISIS happened because when Bush 2 happened to invade Iraq for made up reasons and eventually executed Saddam. They ended up sticking the rest of the baathist leadership in Abu Ghraib and the like, where we messed up the minds of people who were already capable of atrocities. ISIS leadership was almost entirely made up of jailbroken Baathist leaders.

Don't pin the Taliban on us though. That *was* Russia. Don't blame Chechen extremists on us either.

But seriously, Russia has its hands in everything right now. NOW not the past 100 years of history, which I wasn't alive for. I'm alive for this, right now.
 
jetero
Posts: 3537
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:25 am

Jouhou wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Since the end of the Cold War who has started and participated in the majority of the world wars, who gave rise to the Talaban and ISIL, I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t them.

Russia being involved in Brexit is a big leap, Brexit was a typically British cockup, they only have themselves to blame.


You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.

ISIS happened because when Bush 2 happened to invade Iraq for made up reasons and eventually executed Saddam. They ended up sticking the rest of the baathist leadership in Abu Ghraib and the like, where we messed up the minds of people who were already capable of atrocities. ISIS leadership was almost entirely made up of jailbroken Baathist leaders.

Don't pin the Taliban on us though. That *was* Russia. Don't blame Chechen extremists on us either.

But seriously, Russia has its hands in everything right now. NOW not the past 100 years of history, which I wasn't alive for. I'm alive for this, right now.


Jouhou I had the same thought re Taliban.

But kiwirob is 100% right.

We funded them.

There's an entire movie about it.

And Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts are in it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472062/
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:48 am

Chechen extremists is a domestic issue which affects nobody but the Russians, it doesn’t affect you or me.

To me it looks like the US public are being pointed towards Russia as the bogeyman because it diverts your attention alway from all the internal domestic issues you guys have. It’s easier to blame someone on the outside rather than looking in.

Afghanistan is your problem and has been your problem since 9/11. You won’t be leaving nytime soon, as the Russians and British before you realised Afghanistan is a strategic crossroads.

As for the transfer of missile technology look no further than Yuzhmash there’s an excellent article in time about the transfer of technology and engineers from this Ukrainian company to North Korea.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:08 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Chechen extremists is a domestic issue which affects nobody but the Russians, it doesn’t affect you or me.

To me it looks like the US public are being pointed towards Russia as the bogeyman because it diverts your attention alway from all the internal domestic issues you guys have. It’s easier to blame someone on the outside rather than looking in.

Afghanistan is your problem and has been your problem since 9/11. You won’t be leaving nytime soon, as the Russians and British before you realised Afghanistan is a strategic crossroads.

As for the transfer of missile technology look no further than Yuzhmash there’s an excellent article in time about the transfer of technology and engineers from this Ukrainian company to North Korea.

The Boston bombers were chechen. It's ignorant to tell me they don't affect us, I live in the Boston metro. They also made up a great deal of isis recruits.

Also the US might have armed the taliban, but we weren't the occupiers then.

Also also, I was too young to vote when Bush 2 was elected. When my generation was able to vote we elected Obama.

Stop trying to tell me I deserve Russians trying to ruin the entire western world, when I personally did nothing. I was a damn child.

Also this isn't made up. They've been doing it to Europe too. Give me a break.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11769
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:18 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm of the opinion that both sides should stop ruining things.

The world is in a constant state of flux since 2001 with no signs of stopping thanks to the actions from both the US & Russia. It's a bit tiresome to be honest.


I knew the US would come under assault at some point. Surprised it too so long.

Only way to stop Russia is to take out Putin. Short of that it's all just hot air.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6093
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:30 am

Jouhou wrote:
Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)?


This needs to be done indeed, no more fossil fuels, not only because of Russia but indeed a large portion of the Russian economy depends on it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:55 am

Dutchy wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)?


This needs to be done indeed, no more fossil fuels, not only because of Russia but indeed a large portion of the Russian economy depends on it.


Europe has the offshore wind thing going for it, but there should should be more effort to cut deals with North Africa for Saharan solar and wind... This should be done in a way that doesn't take advantage of the locals so they don't cry out about neo colonialism. I know there's something in the works with Tunisia but I'm surprised no one is working on something with Morocco and Algeria. Especially Algeria, which like Tunisia many speak French as a second language.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:59 am

NIKV69 wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm of the opinion that both sides should stop ruining things.

The world is in a constant state of flux since 2001 with no signs of stopping thanks to the actions from both the US & Russia. It's a bit tiresome to be honest.


I knew the US would come under assault at some point. Surprised it too so long.

Only way to stop Russia is to take out Putin. Short of that it's all just hot air.


He's not gonna fall for the ol' polonium tea trick. I don't think this would be a simple task.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:03 am

Jouhou wrote:
The Boston bombers were chechen. It's ignorant to tell me they don't affect us, I live in the Boston metro. They also made up a great deal of isis recruits.


That fact that they were Chechen isn't Russia's fault, first and foremost they were radical muslims with ISIL sympathies. A lot of ISIL recruits came from the UK, France, KSA, some were even Americans, it doesn't really matter where they come from, so long as they end up dead it's not a problem.

Jouhou wrote:
Also the US might have armed the taliban, but we weren't the occupiers then.


There's no might about it, you did arm and fund them, and now you're the occupiers.

Jouhou wrote:
Also also, I was too young to vote when Bush 2 was elected. When my generation was able to vote we elected Obama.


Bush 2 was still your president and your generation elected Trump.

Jouhou wrote:
Stop trying to tell me I deserve Russians trying to ruin the entire western world, when I personally did nothing. I was a damn child.

Also this isn't made up. They've been doing it to Europe too. Give me a break.


It doesn't really matter that you were a damn child the ripples from failed US polices and actions have lasted a long long time and with current failurers are affecting the world we live in today. IMO the US hasn't done anything right in generations. The US acts in it's own self interest, it always has and always will, you're kidding yourself if you think you don't. Which leads on to why can't Russia act in it's own self interest, you don't have a monopoly on self interest.

I don't actually see what the Russians have done to ruin the western world, I don't see what they have done to ruin Europe either, btw I live in Europe and have been living in Europe since 2006, my life in Europe hasn't changed at all, even with the mess in Ukraine, my life still hasn't changed.

What we can definitively say is that the US assisted/financed Arab Spring movement and continued meddling in the Middle East has caused all kind of ructions and fuckups which will continue to affect the world for generations.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:14 am

NIKV69 wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm of the opinion that both sides should stop ruining things.

The world is in a constant state of flux since 2001 with no signs of stopping thanks to the actions from both the US & Russia. It's a bit tiresome to be honest.


I knew the US would come under assault at some point. Surprised it too so long.

Only way to stop Russia is to take out Putin. Short of that it's all just hot air.


Because it's the reality we live in. The world we live in is shaped by what happened between America & Russia (in the guise of the Soviet Union) after World War 2. So there's no reason for anyone to just blame Russia or just blame America for ruining things. Both should take equal blame.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:23 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
The Boston bombers were chechen. It's ignorant to tell me they don't affect us, I live in the Boston metro. They also made up a great deal of isis recruits.


That fact that they were Chechen isn't Russia's fault, first and foremost they were radical muslims with ISIL sympathies. A lot of ISIL recruits came from the UK, France, KSA, some were even Americans, it doesn't really matter where they come from, so long as they end up dead it's not a problem.

Jouhou wrote:
Also the US might have armed the taliban, but we weren't the occupiers then.


There's no might about it, you did arm and fund them, and now you're the occupiers.

Jouhou wrote:
Also also, I was too young to vote when Bush 2 was elected. When my generation was able to vote we elected Obama.


Bush 2 was still your president and your generation elected Trump.

Jouhou wrote:
Stop trying to tell me I deserve Russians trying to ruin the entire western world, when I personally did nothing. I was a damn child.

Also this isn't made up. They've been doing it to Europe too. Give me a break.


It doesn't really matter that you were a damn child the ripples from failed US polices and actions have lasted a long long time and with current failurers are affecting the world we live in today. IMO the US hasn't done anything right in generations. The US acts in it's own self interest, it always has and always will, you're kidding yourself if you think you don't. Which leads on to why can't Russia act in it's own self interest, you don't have a monopoly on self interest.

I don't actually see what the Russians have done to ruin the western world, I don't see what they have done to ruin Europe either, btw I live in Europe and have been living in Europe since 2006, my life in Europe hasn't changed at all, even with the mess in Ukraine, my life still hasn't changed.

What we can definitively say is that the US assisted/financed Arab Spring movement and continued meddling in the Middle East has caused all kind of ructions and fuckups which will continue to affect the world for generations.


So in other words, you're a Russian apologist. Germany, France, and the Netherlands have acknowledged Russian meddling. Nevermind the Baltics that have been crying out for years about Russian aggression. Italy is sort of happily compromised, and there are several eastern European countries that have collectively caved to the agitprop. And a few that never really left their Soviet status behind (Belarus).

You act as if Americans aren't taught about what we've done wrong, as if it's shocking to us. We are taught history, in its entirety, so when we are in charge we don't make the same mistakes. You can't say the same about Russia, that teaches their people a distorted history where they don't acknowledge their own wrong doing. See a difference? This is like saying both sides are the same when you have neo-Nazis vs counter protesters.

Btw. Guess who Richard Spencer's(the leader of the alt-right) wife is? She's the Russian that translated " The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia" by Aleksandr Dugin to English. In this book is detailed a strategy to destabilize the US by inflaming racial tensions. Hmmm.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:55 am

Jouhou wrote:
So in other words, you're a Russian apologist. Germany, France, and the Netherlands have acknowledged Russian meddling. Nevermind the Baltics that have been crying out for years about Russian aggression. Italy is sort of happily compromised, and there are several eastern European countries that have collectively caved to the agitprop. And a few that never really left their Soviet status behind (Belarus).


Where's the proof that Russia has been meddling in Germany, France and the Netherlands, it appears to me that if anything looks a bit sketchy domestically lets troot out the Russians done it as an excuse. There's a very large Russian population in the Balitcs who the locals like to blame for anything that goes wrong, reds under the bed and all the rest of it. Most Eastern Euro countries are doing well, Polands having issues but that's more to do with a growing dislike of the EU and far fright politics than Russia; Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Romania, Hungary are all happy EU members, they're basking in the free money for infrastructure that they get from them.

Jouhou wrote:
You act as if Americans aren't taught about what we've done wrong, as if it's shocking to us. We are taught history, in its entirety, so when we are in charge we don't make the same mistakes. You can't say the same about Russia, that teaches their people a distorted history where they don't acknowledge their own wrong doing. See a difference? This is like saying both sides are the same when you have neo-Nazis vs counter protesters.


You're the proof in the pudding love, you blame everything on Russia but are utterly blinkered towards your own countries failings. You are somewhat in charge and continue to make huge mistakes, you don't learn from past history, and continue to blunder around like a bull in a China shop. Most of the Russians I know are very aware of there countries failings, how many Russians do you know?

I'd love to know what you think of China, I'm sure they must keep you awake at night, if anything the next decade or so we are going to see China fully emerge as the global leader, supplanting the US, the US will end up somewhat like Russia is today.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:57 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
So in other words, you're a Russian apologist. Germany, France, and the Netherlands have acknowledged Russian meddling. Nevermind the Baltics that have been crying out for years about Russian aggression. Italy is sort of happily compromised, and there are several eastern European countries that have collectively caved to the agitprop. And a few that never really left their Soviet status behind (Belarus).


Where's the proof that Russia has been meddling in Germany, France and the Netherlands, it appears to me that if anything looks a bit sketchy domestically lets troot out the Russians done it as an excuse. There's a very large Russian population in the Balitcs who the locals like to blame for anything that goes wrong, reds under the bed and all the rest of it. Most Eastern Euro countries are doing well, Polands having issues but that's more to do with a growing dislike of the EU and far fright politics than Russia; Slovenia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Romania, Hungary are all happy EU members, they're basking in the free money for infrastructure that they get from them.

Jouhou wrote:
You act as if Americans aren't taught about what we've done wrong, as if it's shocking to us. We are taught history, in its entirety, so when we are in charge we don't make the same mistakes. You can't say the same about Russia, that teaches their people a distorted history where they don't acknowledge their own wrong doing. See a difference? This is like saying both sides are the same when you have neo-Nazis vs counter protesters.


You're the proof in the pudding love, you blame everything on Russia but are utterly blinkered towards your own countries failings. You are somewhat in charge and continue to make huge mistakes, you don't learn from past history, and continue to blunder around like a bull in a China shop. Most of the Russians I know are very aware of there countries failings, how many Russians do you know?

I'd love to know what you think of China, I'm sure they must keep you awake at night, if anything the next decade or so we are going to see China fully emerge as the global leader, supplanting the US, the US will end up somewhat like Russia is today.


Where the hell do you reside? Hungary? Poland? The Kremlin kool aid is dribbling down your chin. I'm one of the only ones that's making a fuss about Russia while everyone else is distracted by another gun debate once again being inflamed by olgino bots.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:00 am

China stopped the cyber attacks on us after the opm breach. We're cool with them, and I've been there.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:04 am

Jouhou wrote:
... Russia is revealed as being suspected in having their hands in every damn thing that goes wrong in the world.

I'm so sick of russia. I have never felt so much hatred towards one country. Why is anyone still defending Russia? Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)? ...


What about being sick of the "suspectors" ?

if you follow the narrative Russia is not the devil incarnate, they instantiated the devil as original invention of sin. one up the ladder.

Stories in that vein tend to be invented from whole cloth.
So, take a step back and assay what could be the truth behind it.

Why should we swap out a more efficient gas pipeline for LNG delivered by ship via a US company that was liquefied from Russian Gas.
Why should we replace a reliable supplier ( Soviets, later Russia ) for a fickle and unrealiable source like the US.
Whenever the US gets another funny idea about pushing their agenda towards world domination ( or what I in recent days do suspect to be more probable : trashing the globe for a final Armageddon ) every body is taken hostage for that drive. ( Look at the Kurds sprightly getting boiled a nice Lobster Red from their "friends".)

No thank you.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:10 am

WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
... Russia is revealed as being suspected in having their hands in every damn thing that goes wrong in the world.

I'm so sick of russia. I have never felt so much hatred towards one country. Why is anyone still defending Russia? Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)? ...


What about being sick of the "suspectors" ?

if you follow the narrative Russia is not the devil incarnate, they instantiated the devil as original invention of sin. one up the ladder.

Stories in that vein tend to be invented from whole cloth.
So, take a step back and assay what could be the truth behind it.

Why should we swap out a more efficient gas pipeline for LNG delivered by ship via a US company that was liquefied from Russian Gas.
Why should we replace a reliable supplier ( Soviets, later Russia ) for a fickle and unrealiable source like the US.
Whenever the US gets another funny idea about pushing their agenda towards world domination ( or what I in recent days do suspect to be more probable : trashing the globe for a final Armageddon ) every body is taken hostage for that drive. ( Look at the Kurds sprightly getting boiled a nice Lobster Red from their "friends".)

No thank you.


How about not LNG and actually taking advantage of the resources in your own backyard as I mentioned upthread?

You try being someone educated in international affairs and Asian history and sitting in the shitshow happening in the us. To someone who knows Soviet tactics, it's obvious. They aren't trying to hide it.

And how can you consider yourself good people wishing the worst upon American civilians? Disgusting. Civilians. You have no moral higher ground here.

I also love how y'all won't reveal the country you reside in probably because it would be obvious you are swimming in propaganda.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:31 am

Jouhou wrote:
I also love how y'all won't reveal the country you reside in probably because it would be obvious you are swimming in propaganda.


My impression up to now was that you were old and experienced enough to go beyond simplistic a "kettle calling the pot black" show.

Then I don't find any indication that the US learned from mistakes ( not achieving loudly voiced intentions) . Ever.
( IMU that indicates that the "mistakes" were no mistakes. The unpleasant results were intentional.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:32 am

Jouhou wrote:
And how can you consider yourself good people wishing the worst upon American civilians? Disgusting. Civilians. You have no moral higher ground here.


Whoa, where did Wlederling or Kiwirob say that? :roll:
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:42 am

VSMUT wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
And how can you consider yourself good people wishing the worst upon American civilians? Disgusting. Civilians. You have no moral higher ground here.


Whoa, where did Wlederling or Kiwirob say that? :roll:


When they started ranting about how I deserve this and I'm responsible for all of this when I'm a damn liberal. I oppose all of the policies they are demonizing yet they think I deserve Russian attempts to instigate a civil war or to give the moron in chief a signal that he needs to start world war 3 in NK.

And so they berate me? This means they believe all Americans deserve to suffer. They think neonazis should be beating black people and running over protesters in cars. They aren't hiding their support for this shit. It's in plain sight.

This is exactly what's upsetting to me and yet they say we deserve it.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:51 am

Jouhou wrote:
You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.


Not correct. ( actually patently false. The US created the problem ( handing stone age islamic tribes MANPADS just for the fun of it. )
and it never really was a tourist destination :- )
( The better educated Afghan refugees ( male, female ) here all received their education in Soviet aided times.
Some good engineers, doctors, healthcare ... nothing later. US-AID seems to have mostly centered on imrproving corruption)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:08 am

WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.


Not correct. ( actually patently false. The US created the problem ( handing stone age islamic tribes MANPADS just for the fun of it. )
and it never really was a tourist destination :- )
( The better educated Afghan refugees ( male, female ) here all received their education in Soviet aided times.
Some good engineers, doctors, healthcare ... nothing later. US-AID seems to have mostly centered on imrproving corruption)


Yeah, we know we participated in proxy wars. Which is why I want us out of syria. If Russia wants the middle East in its sphere of influence, they can have it. One thing I agree with the Russians on is supporting the kurds. Hopefully they can curb the turks from committing a genocide.

I agreed with us intervening with isis, because no one else was doing anything when they were slaughtering the yazidis, who are kurds.

The Iraq war? No. Afghanistan? I was one of the few who opposed that, yet I was too young to even vote back then.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6093
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:09 am

Jouhou wrote:
You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.


What are you trying to achieve here, Jouhou? In each and every Russian related tread around here, the same Putin gang shows up to defend the motherland fears. Their tactics are all the same: personal attacks, whataboutisms, denying everything, saying everything is one big conspiracy against Russian motherland etc.

So the best thing is indeed to get out of our fossil fuel addiction and take away a bit of their power that way and make the world a bit cleaner. Debating this crowd is pointless.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:18 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2013/07/afghanistan-in-the-1950s-and-60s/100544/

Once upon a time Afghanistan had a culture unique enough to make it into our language, with Afghan blankets and afghani kush. It was a proxy war that fucked them up yes. To make it seem so one sided though is unfair.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.


What are you trying to achieve here, Jouhou? In each and every Russian related tread around here, the same Putin gang shows up to defend the motherland fears. Their tactics are all the same: personal attacks, whataboutisms, denying everything, saying everything is one big conspiracy against Russian motherland etc.

So the best thing is indeed to get out of our fossil fuel addiction and take away a bit of their power that way and make the world a bit cleaner. Debating this crowd is pointless.


Because they claim to be not Russian. Which means either they are lying olgino trolls or they've fallen for the agitprop. Agitprop is fought by giving the accurate narrative. It's fought by truth. What they decide is the truth is up to them but I do see the need to point out the fallacies they are using. They need both narratives to even have a chance.
 
tu204
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:25 am

Jouhou wrote:
So they are suspected of selling NK their weapons designs and then they try provoking more tensions with them. This is ridiculous.

I think you confuse Russia with Ukraine. You know, those guys your country supported back in 2014 when they overthrew their elected president? :roll:

Jouhou wrote:
I'm so sick of russia. I have never felt so much hatred towards one country. Why is anyone still defending Russia? Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)? Why isn't the world doing more to stop them? Do you really think it's just the US it is hurting? Why isn't the UK investigating whether Russia had a hand in Brexit? Brexit has been #1 on Russia's wish list for a long time.

Awwww poor you. Even if Russia had a hand in Brexit and ervery other major event in the past 5 years as you think, you have no right to bitch and moan about it, coming from a country that has done the same and worse in the past decades.

Think about how everyone else and especially Russians felt about the US meddling. Taste of your own medicine. Like it? :lol:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6093
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:30 am

Jouhou wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
You know, Afghanistan was Russia's problem before it was ours. Before that, it was a tourist destination.


What are you trying to achieve here, Jouhou? In each and every Russian related tread around here, the same Putin gang shows up to defend the motherland fears. Their tactics are all the same: personal attacks, whataboutisms, denying everything, saying everything is one big conspiracy against Russian motherland etc.

So the best thing is indeed to get out of our fossil fuel addiction and take away a bit of their power that way and make the world a bit cleaner. Debating this crowd is pointless.


Because they claim to be not Russian. Which means either they are lying olgino trolls or they've fallen for the agitprop. Agitprop is fought by giving the accurate narrative. It's fought by truth. What they decide is the truth is up to them but I do see the need to point out the fallacies they are using. They need both narratives to even have a chance.


Rob claims indeed to be from New Zealand living in Norway. The others I do not know about. Endless debates with Rob thought me that he doesn't care about the truth, only cares about the Russian point of view. Don't know why though.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:37 am

tu204 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
So they are suspected of selling NK their weapons designs and then they try provoking more tensions with them. This is ridiculous.

I think you confuse Russia with Ukraine. You know, those guys your country supported back in 2014 when they overthrew their elected president? :roll:

Jouhou wrote:
I'm so sick of russia. I have never felt so much hatred towards one country. Why is anyone still defending Russia? Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)? Why isn't the world doing more to stop them? Do you really think it's just the US it is hurting? Why isn't the UK investigating whether Russia had a hand in Brexit? Brexit has been #1 on Russia's wish list for a long time.

Awwww poor you. Even if Russia had a hand in Brexit and ervery other major event in the past 5 years as you think, you have no right to bitch and moan about it, coming from a country that has done the same and worse in the past decades.

Think about how everyone else and especially Russians felt about the US meddling. Taste of your own medicine. Like it? :lol:


Ukraine was defacto Russian territory until 2014. Then Putin got scared and sent in his green mystery men. apparently the rest of us didn't get the memo that this was actually the first time Ukraine actually split with the Soviet union and Putin wanted his land back. Funny that.

Yes Ukraine. You know about Paul manafort right? He's seeing all kinds of charges here, but if he gets pardoned by The Orange One we will extraditing his ass over to ukraine. Yes, That Manafort. Trumps Original Campaign Manager.

Glad a self proclaimed Russian came out and said what the others were trying to say. One thing Russians rival Americans at is being blunt.
Last edited by Jouhou on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:41 am

Dutchy wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

What are you trying to achieve here, Jouhou? In each and every Russian related tread around here, the same Putin gang shows up to defend the motherland fears. Their tactics are all the same: personal attacks, whataboutisms, denying everything, saying everything is one big conspiracy against Russian motherland etc.

So the best thing is indeed to get out of our fossil fuel addiction and take away a bit of their power that way and make the world a bit cleaner. Debating this crowd is pointless.


Because they claim to be not Russian. Which means either they are lying olgino trolls or they've fallen for the agitprop. Agitprop is fought by giving the accurate narrative. It's fought by truth. What they decide is the truth is up to them but I do see the need to point out the fallacies they are using. They need both narratives to even have a chance.


Rob claims indeed to be from New Zealand living in Norway. The others I do not know about. Endless debates with Rob thought me that he doesn't care about the truth, only cares about the Russian point of view. Don't know why though.


Huh. Must be because he isn't Norwegian because Norwegians know rt is bullshit. Didn't have that built in safety mechanism.

Also, I hope Europe starts going big and ambitious with renewables! Be like us in New England, refuse gas pipelines because we're going to stick to our word and go for wind.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:30 am

Jouhou wrote:
Also, I hope Europe starts going big and ambitious with renewables!

https://1-stromvergleich.com/strom-repo ... eutschland
Murphy is an optimist
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:31 am

Jouhou wrote:

Where the hell do you reside? Hungary? Poland? The Kremlin kool aid is dribbling down your chin. I'm one of the only ones that's making a fuss about Russia while everyone else is distracted by another gun debate once again being inflamed by olgino bots.


I've lived in the UK and now I live in Norway, lets see you find somthing about Russian intervention in either of those two countries.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:41 am

Jouhou wrote:
And so they berate me? This means they believe all Americans deserve to suffer. They think neonazis should be beating black people and running over protesters in cars. They aren't hiding their support for this shit. It's in plain sight.


Looks like that "other" uniformed gang beats up on blacks already doing a perfect seeding job for civil strive.

This is exactly what's upsetting to me and yet they say we deserve it.


My guess would be that People all over the globe watch and think about Karma.
( they hate us for our freedom is about the most cynical counter I've seen. )

I've never seen much tears from the US spent on people suffering from US policy applied
in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodja, Irak, Iran, Somalia, Jemen. How would you like to have your trees defoliated with Agent Orange
and your kids showing the fall out from persistent contamination.
( If a selct few in the US ever voiced concern they were derided as communist, lefties, liberals or grouped as unamerican *tu*ds in general.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:42 am

Jouhou wrote:
How about not LNG and actually taking advantage of the resources in your own backyard as I mentioned upthread?


Because the sun doesn't always sine and the wind doesn't always blow and the majoprity of Europe has gas installed to there houses. It would cost an absolute fortune to transition from gas for heating and cooking to electricity, who is going to pay for that? Do you have a clue about how Europe works?

Jouhou wrote:
You try being someone educated in international affairs and Asian history and sitting in the shitshow happening in the us. To someone who knows Soviet tactics, it's obvious. They aren't trying to hide it.


How do you know Soviet tactics, by your own admission you were too young to be alive back then. The Soviet Union is long gone, consigned to history's dustbin. I guess as a student of Asian history you're be well prepared for the inevitable Chinese domination of the world and the end of the US as the worlds dominant power.

Jouhou wrote:
And how can you consider yourself good people wishing the worst upon American civilians? Disgusting. Civilians. You have no moral higher ground here.


Who said that, I didn't say that. Are you sure you're not dutchy pretending to be a women

Jouhou wrote:
I also love how y'all won't reveal the country you reside in probably because it would be obvious you are swimming in propaganda.


It's pretty obvious where I'm from Kiwi = New Zealander, anyone with have an ounce of intelligence should know that. So why should I tell you my life history, maybe you could spill the beans on yourself first.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6093
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:50 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
How about not LNG and actually taking advantage of the resources in your own backyard as I mentioned upthread?


Because the sun doesn't always sine and the wind doesn't always blow and the majoprity of Europe has gas installed to there houses. It would cost an absolute fortune to transition from gas for heating and cooking to electricity, who is going to pay for that? Do you have a clue about how Europe works?


Do you know how Europe works? Yes, the energy transition is expensive, but on the other hand, it is necessary. On one level because the EU doesn't want to be depended on your beloved Russia, but more important: climate change. Do you know the first thing about it? I doubt it.

We will make it happen, no matter how much you oppose it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11456
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:55 am

Jouhou wrote:
Huh. Must be because he isn't Norwegian because Norwegians know rt is bullshit. Didn't have that built in safety mechanism.

Also, I hope Europe starts going big and ambitious with renewables! Be like us in New England, refuse gas pipelines because we're going to stick to our word and go for wind.


I don't think you know any Norwegians either, you have no clue about what Norwegians believe or don't believe, besides RT isn't an option for any of the Norwegian tv content providers have.

In New England you're attached to the US grid, so when your renewables fail to provide enough energy you get it from other parts of the US where is comes from all sorts of non renewable sources.

Europe is big on renewable’s, Norway for instance gets more energy than it needs from hydro, the overflow is sold on to Europe, but solar and wind are not reliable sources, there needs to be a another source, in Europe this is nuclear (which is being given the boot in many countries) coal, hydro and gas from Russia. Europes far far ahead of the US in renewable energy.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:07 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Every single day Russia is revealed as being suspected in having their hands in every damn thing that goes wrong in the world.
Today it was this.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-spies-hacked-the-olympics-and-tried-to-make-it-look-like-north-korea-did-it-us-officials-say/2018/02/24/44b5468e-18f2-11e8-92c9-376b4fe57ff7_story.html?utm_term=.6b749fbfc1a5

So they are suspected of selling NK their weapons designs and then they try provoking more tensions with them. This is ridiculous.

I'm so sick of russia. I have never felt so much hatred towards one country. Why is anyone still defending Russia? Why isn't the world doing more to become energy independent(looking at you europe)? Why isn't the world doing more to stop them? Do you really think it's just the US it is hurting? Why isn't the UK investigating whether Russia had a hand in Brexit? Brexit has been #1 on Russia's wish list for a long time.

I laugh a lot when someone is accusing Russia once again. This shows how stupid and prone Western propaganda are people who hate Russia.
At the same time, we see that all points of instability in the world today were provoked not by Russia, but by the United States and its pocket puppet in the form of NATO members. They climbed to the middle East-and now there is already two decades of war. They got to Ukraine-now in Ukraine there is a civil war. They went to Afghanistan - it has been 16 years, and what about Afghanistan? Have NATO troops already achieved success? The West looks like a rabid dog, which feels the approach of his death, and thus rushes to all around in the hope that it will allow her to live a little longer.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:16 pm

Dutchy wrote:
On one level because the EU doesn't want to be depended on your beloved Russia, but more important: climate change.


US wet dream.
Our current mix shows much more diversity than one would assume from the US centric view peddled around in media ( and by select posters ).

Gas suppy from RU: up to now the US aligned transit countries ( Ukraine, Poland ) caused problems.
Northstream 1,2 were direct reactions to the blackmail "offers" floated by these countries.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6093
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:17 pm

WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
On one level because the EU doesn't want to be depended on your beloved Russia, but more important: climate change.


US wet dream.
Our current mix shows much more diversity than one would assume from the US centric view peddled around in media ( and by select posters ).

Gas suppy from RU: up to now the US aligned transit countries ( Ukraine, Poland ) caused problems.
Northstream 1,2 were direct reactions to the blackmail "offers" floated by these countries.


EU should not be depended on Russia for anything and climate change still stands. So don't know what you go on about.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 12

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 2122M, bagoldex, jetero, LJ, luckyone, max999, Revelation and 24 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos