jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:40 am

777Mech wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Here is another list for you how many shall I provide Delta is 5th.

https://www.newsmax.com/fastfeatures/em ... id/645208/


Uhhh. This is from 2015, my source was from December 2016.


It's also systemwide employees but perhaps he thinks

Coca-Cola employees 830,000 people in Georgia

Aflac employees 465,000

UPS 395,000

Home Depot 300,000

and

Delta 80,000

Incidentally the number of Aflac employees seems crazy high. Their Wiki page says 10,000.

But hey it's newsmax. Run by Chris Ruddy. Great news source!!!!
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:52 am

Delta employs 80,000 worldwide before i retired 30k were based in Atlanta. I seriously doubt they went from 30k to 6k something seriously wrong with those numbers.
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:05 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Delta employs 80,000 worldwide before i retired 30k were based in Atlanta. I seriously doubt they went from 30k to 6k something seriously wrong with those numbers.


It's got the klm617 Stamp of Approval for Accuracy. :trophy: :trophy: :trophy:
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:05 am

Of course some are whackos, especially when you are talking about 5 million people.

But DL decided to collectively punish all of them, for the actions that literally none of them.

You know who pulled the trigger? Cruz did. Ultimately he is responsible at the end of the day


Of course Cruz is, that is the legal system and rightly so. Of course an insanity plea always muddies the waters. I am sure all the Republicans will be very pleased if he is found insane instead of guilty. They are the ones who constantly blame this horror show on everybody but the NRA, it is insanity, mental health issues, so if insanity is the end result of this, I cannot wait for all you tRumpers and Republican/Conservative folks to make comments supporting the verdict.

It is to me like a Drug dealer laying out loaded needles and saying to the addict, if you take this and commit a crime, it is not my fault, I just left the needles on the table. You took the drug, so you bear all the blame. The NRA and their Politician cohorts are worse than a Drug Dealer and it is tragic, but expected none of them are going to jail.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:06 am

Does anyone even know what these "discounts" were worth? Is it like a AAA discount at a hotel? So $10? Those are some real Pelosi Crumbs there.
 
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stl07
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:16 am

Situation in a nutshell as portrayed by LG
oh noooo. What a massive controversy and attack on the 2nd amendment and all gun rights supporters. The small handful of people that use DL to get to an NRA conference can no longer use their 5 dollar discount code. The GOP is being attacked by these liberal propaganda airlines.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:22 am

jetero wrote:
Does anyone even know what these "discounts" were worth? Is it like a AAA discount at a hotel? So $10? Those are some real Pelosi Crumbs there.

An earlier poster stated that the discounts are near valueless as they apply to "normal" prices and almost no one pays that and other airline discounts such as credit card linked ones are worth a lot more.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:37 am

Tugger wrote:
jetero wrote:
Does anyone even know what these "discounts" were worth? Is it like a AAA discount at a hotel? So $10? Those are some real Pelosi Crumbs there.

An earlier poster stated that the discounts are near valueless as they apply to "normal" prices and almost no one pays that and other airline discounts such as credit card linked ones are worth a lot more.

Tugg


Thanks Tugg, that's what I suspected. Guess I came late to this thread!
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:47 am

cvgComair wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

:checkmark: Exactly. When I joined the NRA, its primary objective was teaching gun safety and firearms responsibility. Along the way - beginning in the mid 70's, but even more so in the past two decades so - it discovered there was real money to be made in representing the interests of gun manufacturers, and pushing for guns - all types of guns - to be sold to virtually anyone, at any time. In doing so, they changed from a service organization to a lobbying group, claiming to represent their members but, in truth, pushing an agenda that is too often at odds with what the majority of their membership might believe.

I am no longer a member of the NRA, partly because I live out of the country most of the year, but mostly because I can no longer support their current objectives and inflammatory rhetoric. Indeed, most of my friends who were members no longer keep their memberships active. Nevertheless, I understand we are still counted among the claimed 5-million members; even deceased are among the "lifetime" membership rolls.

I pity those who still blindly follow the NRA's dogma; if you truly think any type of weapon, no matter what a menace it poses to society, should be made available because of some "Second Amendment" argument (and why stop at assault rifles? Why shouldn't a "well-regulated militia" be allowed hand grenades? Gatling guns?), the NRA is your team. If you are a reasonable, thinking individual, and realize the government is not coming to take away your sporting firearms, and if you understand there have to be sensible limitations on the types of weapons an individual should own... then the NRA isn't for you. Not any longer.

I prefer reasonable, thinking individuals.


This is an amazing post and thank you for taking the time to write it. This folks, is about as common sense a post can get.

The 2nd amendemt was written in 1791. I am no gun buff but I believe when this amendment was written, there were only hand guns, no such thing as assault rifles that we now allow pretty much any civilain to own. Who here thinks that if assault rifles were around in 1791, the current wording of the 2nd amendment would exist today?

I for one hope that Delta sticks to its decision and does not go crawling back to the NRA.

:checkmark:

FreequentFlier wrote:
enilria wrote:
Actually companies need to stay out of politics irrelevant to their business. Delta lobbyists will be asking this same guy to sign a petition against the ME3 in a month or two probably. You don't waste political capital on these momentary political issues that don't impact the bottom line.

Social and political issues definitely impact the bottom line and are very relevant to companies. In the age of social media, news can be spread across the country in mere seconds (and airlines have not gotten much positive PR recently :roll: ). You just need to look at Millennials and Generation Z, who are going to be flying Delta for years to come. This is a generation that is overwhelmingly progressive on social issues such as LGBT rights, the environment, gender discrimination, 2nd amendment, etc. There is a reason that DL sponsors LGBT rights events in countless cities and publishes articles about working to eliminate gender pay-gaps/offsetting carbon emissions. You can name a lot more companies supporting these issues than opposing them.

For Delta, they might risk some customers in the short-term by taking stands on the issues, but they are preparing for the long term. The majority of the demographic supporting traditionalist policies are older and therefore have less time left to do business with Delta than someone who is younger (and is more likely to support progressive issues). From a business perspective, it is important to attract these younger customers that are going to support DL for decades to come.

I don't disagree that DL conflicts itself on issues such as ME3 and Bombardier, but those are mostly economic issues. Those are separate issues and DL's public image not really defined by their positions on these issues. In all of these cases, DL is siding where they stand to make the most and loose the least amount of money. Seems like logical business moves to me.


Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.

Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-WW2.html


The reality is no one knows what 15 year olds are going to believe in 25-30 years. We'll all be riding in self automated flying cars by then. Maybe DL or airlines won't even exist.

But DL's position was stupid, not to mention unnecessary, because companies can always choose not to wade into politics at all. It's pretty stupid to antagonize even a large minority of of your customer base. I figured that would be obvious after DL just lost out on $40 to 50 million in specialized tax breaks because of some pointless virtue signaling, but your mileage may vary.
 
alfa164
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:01 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
This is an amazing post and thank you for taking the time to write it. This folks, is about as common sense a post can get.
The 2nd amendemt was written in 1791. I am no gun buff but I believe when this amendment was written, there were only hand guns, no such thing as assault rifles that we now allow pretty much any civilain to own. Who here thinks that if assault rifles were around in 1791, the current wording of the 2nd amendment would exist today?
I for one hope that Delta sticks to its decision and does not go crawling back to the NRA.

:checkmark:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Social and political issues definitely impact the bottom line and are very relevant to companies. In the age of social media, news can be spread across the country in mere seconds (and airlines have not gotten much positive PR recently :roll: ). You just need to look at Millennials and Generation Z, who are going to be flying Delta for years to come. This is a generation that is overwhelmingly progressive on social issues such as LGBT rights, the environment, gender discrimination, 2nd amendment, etc. There is a reason that DL sponsors LGBT rights events in countless cities and publishes articles about working to eliminate gender pay-gaps/offsetting carbon emissions. You can name a lot more companies supporting these issues than opposing them.
For Delta, they might risk some customers in the short-term by taking stands on the issues, but they are preparing for the long term. The majority of the demographic supporting traditionalist policies are older and therefore have less time left to do business with Delta than someone who is younger (and is more likely to support progressive issues). From a business perspective, it is important to attract these younger customers that are going to support DL for decades to come.
I don't disagree that DL conflicts itself on issues such as ME3 and Bombardier, but those are mostly economic issues. Those are separate issues and DL's public image not really defined by their positions on these issues. In all of these cases, DL is siding where they stand to make the most and loose the least amount of money. Seems like logical business moves to me.


Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.
Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ive-WW2.ht
The reality is no one knows what 15 year olds are going to believe in 25-30 years. We'll all be riding in self automated flying cars by then. Maybe DL or airlines won't even exist.
But DL's position was stupid, not to mention unnecessary, because companies can always choose not to wade into politics at all. It's pretty stupid to antagonize even a large minority of of your customer base. I figured that would be obvious after DL just lost out on $40 to 50 million in specialized tax breaks because of some pointless virtue signaling, but your mileage may vary.


Delta - inadvertently, I am sure - waded into politics when it offered a discount to NRA members. It is getting out of politics by not giving special favors.

Unfortunately, these easily-misled lemmings seem to think that a return to normalcy is a slap in the face to them... :roll:
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:16 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

This is an amazing post and thank you for taking the time to write it. This folks, is about as common sense a post can get.

The 2nd amendemt was written in 1791. I am no gun buff but I believe when this amendment was written, there were only hand guns, no such thing as assault rifles that we now allow pretty much any civilain to own. Who here thinks that if assault rifles were around in 1791, the current wording of the 2nd amendment would exist today?

I for one hope that Delta sticks to its decision and does not go crawling back to the NRA.

:checkmark:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Social and political issues definitely impact the bottom line and are very relevant to companies. In the age of social media, news can be spread across the country in mere seconds (and airlines have not gotten much positive PR recently :roll: ). You just need to look at Millennials and Generation Z, who are going to be flying Delta for years to come. This is a generation that is overwhelmingly progressive on social issues such as LGBT rights, the environment, gender discrimination, 2nd amendment, etc. There is a reason that DL sponsors LGBT rights events in countless cities and publishes articles about working to eliminate gender pay-gaps/offsetting carbon emissions. You can name a lot more companies supporting these issues than opposing them.

For Delta, they might risk some customers in the short-term by taking stands on the issues, but they are preparing for the long term. The majority of the demographic supporting traditionalist policies are older and therefore have less time left to do business with Delta than someone who is younger (and is more likely to support progressive issues). From a business perspective, it is important to attract these younger customers that are going to support DL for decades to come.

I don't disagree that DL conflicts itself on issues such as ME3 and Bombardier, but those are mostly economic issues. Those are separate issues and DL's public image not really defined by their positions on these issues. In all of these cases, DL is siding where they stand to make the most and loose the least amount of money. Seems like logical business moves to me.


Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.

Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-WW2.html


The reality is no one knows what 15 year olds are going to believe in 25-30 years. We'll all be riding in self automated flying cars by then. Maybe DL or airlines won't even exist.

But DL's position was stupid, not to mention unnecessary, because companies can always choose not to wade into politics at all. It's pretty stupid to antagonize even a large minority of of your customer base. I figured that would be obvious after DL just lost out on $40 to 50 million in specialized tax breaks because of some pointless virtue signaling, but your mileage may vary.


Dottie sounds like you’ve got it figured out ... Delta’s going down, The Daily Mail says you’re going to have a Permanent Majority, all sounds good for you! If I were you I’d just pour myself a nice glass of champagne, sit back, and watch myself get proven right. Come back on in a couple of years and give us a good “I Told You So.”

Why panties in such a wad, Dot? Are you having a few leaks worried that we libtards might actually have a chance? Get yourself some Depends ... I have faith you guys can turn up the lying, cheating, and stealing even more to hold on to power.
 
ThomasMTroxell
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:25 am

The discounts applied to Y or B fares ONLY and were 2-10% off. The discounts were only valid to the convention. Unless the entire convention was buying last minute fares or was purchasing fully refundable fares in advance no one was really using this discount.

I don't understand the outrage on the right with this. A discount that almost no one used was discontinued. Delta could have spun it that they were ending the discount because of lack of use or because they weren't the exclusive airline of the NRA.

Seriously - This discount was essentially nothing and was only valid on Y or B fares, purchased through the Delta corporate meeting/booking travel portal using the NRA code. I HIGHLY doubt most convention attendees knew about it or that they used it in the first place. Most people book their travel on travel aggregators like Orbitz. Instead, GA politicians are spinning this as if Delta is denying service to gun owners or has stopped accepting guns as baggage or in the cabin on eligible LEOs.

It's an election year and Cagle is neck and neck with the leading Democrat - Abrams. That's all this comes down to. Cagle is all for business denying service to people they want (see his support of anti-gay adoption bill and RFRA support) but when a company ends a little used, little valued discount he loses his mind. Not one single NRA member was denied passage or prohibited from flying.

He is full of hot air and isn't someone that I want representing my state.
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cvgComair
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:06 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

This is an amazing post and thank you for taking the time to write it. This folks, is about as common sense a post can get.

The 2nd amendemt was written in 1791. I am no gun buff but I believe when this amendment was written, there were only hand guns, no such thing as assault rifles that we now allow pretty much any civilain to own. Who here thinks that if assault rifles were around in 1791, the current wording of the 2nd amendment would exist today?

I for one hope that Delta sticks to its decision and does not go crawling back to the NRA.

:checkmark:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Social and political issues definitely impact the bottom line and are very relevant to companies. In the age of social media, news can be spread across the country in mere seconds (and airlines have not gotten much positive PR recently :roll: ). You just need to look at Millennials and Generation Z, who are going to be flying Delta for years to come. This is a generation that is overwhelmingly progressive on social issues such as LGBT rights, the environment, gender discrimination, 2nd amendment, etc. There is a reason that DL sponsors LGBT rights events in countless cities and publishes articles about working to eliminate gender pay-gaps/offsetting carbon emissions. You can name a lot more companies supporting these issues than opposing them.

For Delta, they might risk some customers in the short-term by taking stands on the issues, but they are preparing for the long term. The majority of the demographic supporting traditionalist policies are older and therefore have less time left to do business with Delta than someone who is younger (and is more likely to support progressive issues). From a business perspective, it is important to attract these younger customers that are going to support DL for decades to come.

I don't disagree that DL conflicts itself on issues such as ME3 and Bombardier, but those are mostly economic issues. Those are separate issues and DL's public image not really defined by their positions on these issues. In all of these cases, DL is siding where they stand to make the most and loose the least amount of money. Seems like logical business moves to me.


Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.

Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-WW2.html


The reality is no one knows what 15 year olds are going to believe in 25-30 years. We'll all be riding in self automated flying cars by then. Maybe DL or airlines won't even exist.

But DL's position was stupid, not to mention unnecessary, because companies can always choose not to wade into politics at all. It's pretty stupid to antagonize even a large minority of of your customer base. I figured that would be obvious after DL just lost out on $40 to 50 million in specialized tax breaks because of some pointless virtue signaling, but your mileage may vary.

I get what you are saying, I think the best way to describe Gen Z is socially liberal and financially conservative. I think this article does a good job talking about it and is pretty consistent with what I have seen as a Generation Z myself: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/conservative-or-liberal-its-not-that-simple-with_us_59ea34f7e4b034105edd4e32.

It says that 80% would identify as fiscally conservative with 20% lower alcohol/drug/etc usage compared to Millennials, but 75% agree with same-sex marriage, 76% think climate change is a problem, and "Having grown up bombarded by mass shootings in their own country, and terrorist attacks overseas, this generation more likely supports gun control." I think it will be interesting to see how the current 2-party system goes forward, the average "Gen Z" in this article (and myself included) do not fit well into the core views of Democrats or Republicans (Libertarian and Green don't fit any better).

Had DL kept the NRA contract, they would have made people mad. Since they scrapped the agreement, people are still mad. Had DL done nothing, they still would be alienating a large amount of people. In either case, they are loosing some customers and gaining some others. I think there are too many variables to pin down which route would achieve the best financial standing. If anything, by terminating the agreement, they are no longer taking any sides on the issue, neither supporting or condemning the NRA.
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FreequentFlier
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:30 am

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
:checkmark:


Social and political issues definitely impact the bottom line and are very relevant to companies. In the age of social media, news can be spread across the country in mere seconds (and airlines have not gotten much positive PR recently :roll: ). You just need to look at Millennials and Generation Z, who are going to be flying Delta for years to come. This is a generation that is overwhelmingly progressive on social issues such as LGBT rights, the environment, gender discrimination, 2nd amendment, etc. There is a reason that DL sponsors LGBT rights events in countless cities and publishes articles about working to eliminate gender pay-gaps/offsetting carbon emissions. You can name a lot more companies supporting these issues than opposing them.

For Delta, they might risk some customers in the short-term by taking stands on the issues, but they are preparing for the long term. The majority of the demographic supporting traditionalist policies are older and therefore have less time left to do business with Delta than someone who is younger (and is more likely to support progressive issues). From a business perspective, it is important to attract these younger customers that are going to support DL for decades to come.

I don't disagree that DL conflicts itself on issues such as ME3 and Bombardier, but those are mostly economic issues. Those are separate issues and DL's public image not really defined by their positions on these issues. In all of these cases, DL is siding where they stand to make the most and loose the least amount of money. Seems like logical business moves to me.


Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.

Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-WW2.html


The reality is no one knows what 15 year olds are going to believe in 25-30 years. We'll all be riding in self automated flying cars by then. Maybe DL or airlines won't even exist.

But DL's position was stupid, not to mention unnecessary, because companies can always choose not to wade into politics at all. It's pretty stupid to antagonize even a large minority of of your customer base. I figured that would be obvious after DL just lost out on $40 to 50 million in specialized tax breaks because of some pointless virtue signaling, but your mileage may vary.


Dottie sounds like you’ve got it figured out ... Delta’s going down, The Daily Mail says you’re going to have a Permanent Majority, all sounds good for you! If I were you I’d just pour myself a nice glass of champagne, sit back, and watch myself get proven right. Come back on in a couple of years and give us a good “I Told You So.”

Why panties in such a wad, Dot? Are you having a few leaks worried that we libtards might actually have a chance? Get yourself some Depends ... I have faith you guys can turn up the lying, cheating, and stealing even more to hold on to power.


Seek help jet. You're losing it bro.
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:36 am

ThomasMTroxell wrote:
Delta could have spun it that they were ending the discount because of lack of use or because they weren't the exclusive airline of the NRA.

Seriously - This discount was essentially nothing and was only valid on Y or B fares, purchased through the Delta corporate meeting/booking travel portal using the NRA code. I HIGHLY doubt most convention attendees knew about it or that they used it in the first place.


:checkmark:

Would have been the smarter play! It turns out stupid and annoying virtue signaling by historically apolitical corporations has a cost - about $40 to $50m dollars to be exact. But at least they got a like from FanGrl69 on Twitter. So there's that.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:50 am

The question is why did Delta ever give them a discount in the first place. That is a political move...do give discounts on services to gun-supporting organization members. Did they ever offer similar discounts to anti-gun, anti-gun violence groups? If they didn't, this is just ending a biased and prejudiced policy. Public corporations have no standing to get involved in politics affecting individuals.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:04 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:
Considering many people (including several on this board) are regularly likening those 5 million individuals to "terrorists" and constantly dehumanizing them as if they are not even people,

Now you know what it's like to be a Muslim in the USA. Or a big scary transgender kid trying to pee in peace. Feels good doesn't it?


So you weren't bothered by those actions. You were just bothered by who was targeted by those actions. As long as the "right people" (in your view) are targeted by them, then go right ahead.

That's what you got from that? Swing and a miss. The right has demonized two groups who pose either zero or infinitesimal risk to others, while guns kill 30,000 people per year. Toddlers kill more people with guns than terrorists. But guess which one the GOP sets themselves on fire over? It ain't the 30,000 gun deaths.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 16754
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:04 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:
Considering many people (including several on this board) are regularly likening those 5 million individuals to "terrorists" and constantly dehumanizing them as if they are not even people,

Now you know what it's like to be a Muslim in the USA. Or a big scary transgender kid trying to pee in peace. Feels good doesn't it?


So you weren't bothered by those actions. You were just bothered by who was targeted by those actions. As long as the "right people" (in your view) are targeted by them, then go right ahead.

That's what you got from that? Swing and a miss. The right has demonized two groups who pose either zero or infinitesimal risk to others, while guns kill 30,000 people per year. Toddlers kill more people with guns than terrorists. But guess which one the GOP sets themselves on fire over? It ain't the 30,000 gun deaths.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 215
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:09 am

WarRI1 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
What’s not been said here also is the Lt. Gov in his ire is all but admitting a direct relationship between the NRA and conservative politicians when he says something to the effect of you cannot attack “conservatives” and not expect retaliation.


What would anyone expect from a bunch of political Red Neck hacks from Georgia? Greedy SOB's willing to retaliate against any and all to defend gun rights over the rights to life and safety of children, children!!, I find it repulsive.


Many of the deaths in FL were of 17 year-olds, which Georgians do not consider children, so it makes sense they don't care (look at the Genarlow Wilson case).

On another note, some articles are still saying that the tax breaks are only "under threat". Can anyone actually confirm that the state senate has in fact killed them?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
blrsea
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:06 am

All this debate about blaming companies for "taking sides" or "wading into politics" reminds me of the same-sex marraige/union support in the 2000s in the US. When companies started offering benefits for same-sex couples, they were in similar position, with politicians trying to brandish their "conventional marriage" credentials (and many even do now), and people calling for boycott of companies supporting/opposing same-sex marraige. I wonder whether the people who are accusing DL of taking sides in this issue would have accused companies for promoting same-sex marriages/unions then! And do those people still think the companies did the right thing then?
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:37 am

blrsea wrote:
All this debate about blaming companies for "taking sides" or "wading into politics" reminds me of the same-sex marraige/union support in the 2000s in the US. When companies started offering benefits for same-sex couples, they were in similar position, with politicians trying to brandish their "conventional marriage" credentials (and many even do now), and people calling for boycott of companies supporting/opposing same-sex marraige. I wonder whether the people who are accusing DL of taking sides in this issue would have accused companies for promoting same-sex marriages/unions then! And do those people still think the companies did the right thing then?


It's different. Equality for LGBT2QIA+ deals with inherent human rights. Owning a gun isn't a human right, it's a right bestowed by the US Bill of Rights, and there are already many...many restrictions on that amendment when connected to individual gun ownership.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:39 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Of course some are whackos, especially when you are talking about 5 million people.

But DL decided to collectively punish all of them, for the actions that literally none of them.

You know who pulled the trigger? Cruz did. Ultimately he is responsible at the end of the day


Of course Cruz is, that is the legal system and rightly so. Of course an insanity plea always muddies the waters. I am sure all the Republicans will be very pleased if he is found insane instead of guilty. They are the ones who constantly blame this horror show on everybody but the NRA, it is insanity, mental health issues, so if insanity is the end result of this, I cannot wait for all you tRumpers and Republican/Conservative folks to make comments supporting the verdict.

It is to me like a Drug dealer laying out loaded needles and saying to the addict, if you take this and commit a crime, it is not my fault, I just left the needles on the table. You took the drug, so you bear all the blame. The NRA and their Politician cohorts are worse than a Drug Dealer and it is tragic, but expected none of them are going to jail.


This is a false narrative, and is silly in and of itself.

Why should gun owners who support an organization promoting gun manufacturing and ownership enjoy preferential rates on air carriers?
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
blrsea
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:43 am

Pellegrine wrote:
blrsea wrote:
All this debate about blaming companies for "taking sides" or "wading into politics" reminds me of the same-sex marraige/union support in the 2000s in the US. When companies started offering benefits for same-sex couples, they were in similar position, with politicians trying to brandish their "conventional marriage" credentials (and many even do now), and people calling for boycott of companies supporting/opposing same-sex marraige. I wonder whether the people who are accusing DL of taking sides in this issue would have accused companies for promoting same-sex marriages/unions then! And do those people still think the companies did the right thing then?


It's different. Equality for LGBT2QIA+ deals with inherent human rights. Owning a gun isn't a human right, it's a right bestowed by the US Bill of Rights, and there are already many...many restrictions on that amendment when connected to individual gun ownership.



I was addressing the political aspect of it. The political "taking sides" if you will. Whether LGBT is a equality issue or gun control is question of right to live isn't the focus, whether there was politics over it is what I am raising. Similar to the political sides of gun control debate, there are/were political sides to LGBT issue too. And many companies took sides then it irrespective of the politics behind it, just like they are doing now. So its not like companies are taking sides only now.
 
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:04 am

blrsea wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
blrsea wrote:
All this debate about blaming companies for "taking sides" or "wading into politics" reminds me of the same-sex marraige/union support in the 2000s in the US. When companies started offering benefits for same-sex couples, they were in similar position, with politicians trying to brandish their "conventional marriage" credentials (and many even do now), and people calling for boycott of companies supporting/opposing same-sex marraige. I wonder whether the people who are accusing DL of taking sides in this issue would have accused companies for promoting same-sex marriages/unions then! And do those people still think the companies did the right thing then?


It's different. Equality for LGBT2QIA+ deals with inherent human rights. Owning a gun isn't a human right, it's a right bestowed by the US Bill of Rights, and there are already many...many restrictions on that amendment when connected to individual gun ownership.



I was addressing the political aspect of it. The political "taking sides" if you will. Whether LGBT is a equality issue or gun control is question of right to live isn't the focus, whether there was politics over it is what I am raising. Similar to the political sides of gun control debate, there are/were political sides to LGBT issue too. And many companies took sides then it irrespective of the politics behind it, just like they are doing now. So its not like companies are taking sides only now.


I don't see any of this as a bad thing. There will always be political machinations involved in these debates. Anecdotally, I don't knowingly serve bigots with regards to my small business, I can forgo the money...but I abide by local and federal anti-discrimination laws and I firmly believe in those. In DC there are laws that prevent discrimination based on political-belief. So unless you cause a huge biased scene, or rant about prejudiced statements in my place of business...I've got no issue providing services to conservatives, gun-owners, et cetera.

With business this large, politics is involved every step of the way.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
blrsea
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:04 am

Pellegrine wrote:
With business this large, politics is involved every step of the way.


Precisely, that's what I was trying to say. Its not the first time a big company has taken sides in a political debate, and it won't be the last.
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:48 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.

Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-WW2.html


The reality is no one knows what 15 year olds are going to believe in 25-30 years. We'll all be riding in self automated flying cars by then. Maybe DL or airlines won't even exist.

But DL's position was stupid, not to mention unnecessary, because companies can always choose not to wade into politics at all. It's pretty stupid to antagonize even a large minority of of your customer base. I figured that would be obvious after DL just lost out on $40 to 50 million in specialized tax breaks because of some pointless virtue signaling, but your mileage may vary.


Dottie sounds like you’ve got it figured out ... Delta’s going down, The Daily Mail says you’re going to have a Permanent Majority, all sounds good for you! If I were you I’d just pour myself a nice glass of champagne, sit back, and watch myself get proven right. Come back on in a couple of years and give us a good “I Told You So.”

Why panties in such a wad, Dot? Are you having a few leaks worried that we libtards might actually have a chance? Get yourself some Depends ... I have faith you guys can turn up the lying, cheating, and stealing even more to hold on to power.


Seek help jet. You're losing it bro.


Uh oh Dot, does this mean you’re not too confident in you’re “I Told You So”? Maybe you are finally learning. I’ll give you a C- this round. (Would’ve been a straight C but the constant “virtue signaling” regurgitation is bringing back bad memories of the “Adjust your reality accordingly.” You must see some words that look big to you, your eyes widen, and you latch on to them and never let go.)

(And don’t worry about me. I can go all night with an outlet like you. And I will. I kind of like your Young Republican earnestness.)
Last edited by jetero on Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:51 pm

Let’s all go shopping at Dick’s today to p*ss off our self-righteous, freedom fighting friends on this board!

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/b ... ifles.html
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:29 pm

jetero wrote:
Let’s all go shopping at Dick’s today to p*ss off our self-righteous, freedom fighting friends on this board!

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/b ... ifles.html

Can't wait to read the "let's boycott Dick's for being dicks" tweets and the videos of folks purchasing merchandise and/or burning it.

Nothing says "boycott" and "outrage" like destroying the items you bought from the store. Is this the new Keurig movement?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:35 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
jetero wrote:
Let’s all go shopping at Dick’s today to p*ss off our self-righteous, freedom fighting friends on this board!

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/b ... ifles.html

Can't wait to read the "let's boycott Dick's for being dicks" tweets and the videos of folks purchasing merchandise and/or burning it.

Nothing says "boycott" and "outrage" like destroying the items you bought from the store. Is this the new Keurig movement?


Oh Keurig, forgot that one!

How on earth did we get to be known as the “snowflakes”?!
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:21 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:


Now you know what it's like to be a Muslim in the USA. Or a big scary transgender kid trying to pee in peace. Feels good doesn't it?


So you weren't bothered by those actions. You were just bothered by who was targeted by those actions. As long as the "right people" (in your view) are targeted by them, then go right ahead.

That's what you got from that? Swing and a miss. The right has demonized two groups who pose either zero or infinitesimal risk to others, while guns kill 30,000 people per year. Toddlers kill more people with guns than terrorists. But guess which one the GOP sets themselves on fire over? It ain't the 30,000 gun deaths.


Defensive much?

That's not what I "got" from that. That's what you've been doing. The average law abiding gun owners are no more responsible for Nikolas Cruz' actions than the average American Muslim is for the Boston Bomber.

So you're not really concerned about collective punishment and demonization of groups. You just want to be the one doling out the collective punishment and doing the demonizing.
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:28 pm

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:

Dottie sounds like you’ve got it figured out ... Delta’s going down, The Daily Mail says you’re going to have a Permanent Majority, all sounds good for you! If I were you I’d just pour myself a nice glass of champagne, sit back, and watch myself get proven right. Come back on in a couple of years and give us a good “I Told You So.”

Why panties in such a wad, Dot? Are you having a few leaks worried that we libtards might actually have a chance? Get yourself some Depends ... I have faith you guys can turn up the lying, cheating, and stealing even more to hold on to power.


Seek help jet. You're losing it bro.


Uh oh Dot, does this mean you’re not too confident in you’re “I Told You So”? Maybe you are finally learning. I’ll give you a C- this round. (Would’ve been a straight C but the constant “virtue signaling” regurgitation is bringing back bad memories of the “Adjust your reality accordingly.” You must see some words that look big to you, your eyes widen, and you latch on to them and never let go.)

(And don’t worry about me. I can go all night with an outlet like you. And I will. I kind of like your Young Republican earnestness.)


Oh jet, I'm just not that into you. But if you're feeling lonely, there is always match.com for you.
 
csweet
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DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:57 pm

After Delta Air Lines announced it would stop offering discounted fares to National Rifle Association members, Republicans vowed to kill state legislation that would provide a tax break on DAL. What is the likelihood that Delta would move some operations from GA? Is this even a possibility?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:46 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
Defensive much?

That's not what I "got" from that. That's what you've been doing. The average law abiding gun owners are no more responsible for Nikolas Cruz' actions than the average American Muslim is for the Boston Bomber.

So you're not really concerned about collective punishment and demonization of groups. You just want to be the one doling out the collective punishment and doing the demonizing.

Actually it is you who are sounding defensive as you are declaring or fearing others are attacking your position. That last sentence is "being defensive". And of course you seem to like demonizing those that favor tougher laws regarding firearms and access to them.

I do find that people like to throw arguments like that around a lot: "You claim to be tolerant but aren't allowing whatever I want to be OK" or as is the case here in your argument: "What you want to do is an attack on the innocent law abiding citizens". But that is a false argument as the whole issue is the law and making changes to it. Those "innocent law abiding citizens" will still be "innocent law abiding citizens" as long as they follow the law, new or changed. So no one is attacking or demonizing "innocent law abiding citizens" people are simply looking for a way to improve a bad situation, and changing the law is one of the tools that can be used to help address (not solve it 100%, no problem is ever solved 100% by changing written words). What works is the fact that majority of people are "law abiding citizens" and will follow the law and assist in finding those that aren't if needed and that allows law enforcement to better focus their resources.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
jetero
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:13 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Seek help jet. You're losing it bro.


Uh oh Dot, does this mean you’re not too confident in you’re “I Told You So”? Maybe you are finally learning. I’ll give you a C- this round. (Would’ve been a straight C but the constant “virtue signaling” regurgitation is bringing back bad memories of the “Adjust your reality accordingly.” You must see some words that look big to you, your eyes widen, and you latch on to them and never let go.)

(And don’t worry about me. I can go all night with an outlet like you. And I will. I kind of like your Young Republican earnestness.)


Oh jet, I'm just not that into you. But if you're feeling lonely, there is always match.com for you.


Well obviously you are, Dorothy ... :wave: :butthead:
Last edited by jetero on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:16 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:


But DL decided to collectively punish all of them, for the actions that literally none of them.



Hang on a second....Delta has decided to collectively punish all of them by making them pay the same as the everyone else ??? Oh, Snowflake, this is persecution, how dare a business decide to treat everyone equally....

alfa164 wrote:


Great post, myself and the vast majority of my gun owning friends feel the same way, hell one guy who is a serious gun collector turned his back on the NRA probably 10 years ago because of the switch they made.

FreequentFlier wrote:


Your post implies that because a majority of young people are liberal on a particular issue, then companies should ignore the significant number of them that are not. It also presumes that political viewpoints are static, which they're also not.

Not to mention that there's evidence that Generation Z, the post Millenial Generation, may be the most conservative in nearly 100 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-WW2.html


First, i'm going to give you some bad news, in the grand scheme of things, 5 million people is nothing, last year Delta carried over 180 million, so to be nice, if every member of the NRA took a flight last year, that's 3% of DL passengers.

Second, quoting the dailymail is really not the best thing in the world to do, when it comes to facts, they are much like Trump, they lie, a lot.

cvgComair wrote:

It says that 80% would identify as fiscally conservative with 20% lower alcohol/drug/etc usage compared to Millennials, but 75% agree with same-sex marriage, 76% think climate change is a problem, and "Having grown up bombarded by mass shootings in their own country, and terrorist attacks overseas, this generation more likely supports gun control." I think it will be interesting to see how the current 2-party system goes forward, the average "Gen Z" in this article (and myself included) do not fit well into the core views of Democrats or Republicans (Libertarian and Green don't fit any better).



Bingo

Now, with all that said, DL were not exactly smart to come out and make a big public issue over the discount disappearing, better to just remove it and keep quiet.

Now, to the LT Governor and the members on here going back and forth about the biggest companies in Georgia and how DL is only the 5th, maybe 6 th biggest....

It doesn't matter, again facts of life 101....When it comes to stuff like tax breaks, if you don't think that ALL large corporations stick together, you are being incredibly naive. Mr Lt Governor is in for a wake up call if he decides to push ahead with this.
 
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:17 pm

Not much. Delta has such a large operation there because it is a red state with low taxes and good business climate. To shareholders, the ROI is what matters. Georgia, Texas, Florida...these are good places to run a business that is always in search of lower costs like airlines.

Of course, that same small government, red state mentality also comes with guns. Lots and lots of guns with few restrictions on ownership.

Plain and simple, Delta stepped onto popular platform du jour, and now they have to deal with the political fallout in their home state...where most people love the NRA.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:20 pm

Zero chance.
 
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adamblang
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:26 pm

Operations wouldn't move – ATL's geography matters to serving the region it serves. That couldn't be duplicated elsewhere. If DL were to reduce ATL movements or capacity, someone else would move in to fill that void.

Headquarters could move for the right price though.
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:27 pm

Delta might not move any ops, and they might even fully cave (though I doubt it). However, the bigger impact is now that other companies are keeping an eye on this. Atlanta was one of the top contenders (i.e. in the top 5 of 20 or so) for Amazon's HQ2 project, and I would not be surprised if this plays into that decision. Delta might have to suck it up and take it. Amazon does not.
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STT757
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:29 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Not much. Delta has such a large operation there because it is a red state with low taxes and good business climate. To shareholders, the ROI is what matters. Georgia, Texas, Florida...these are good places to run a business that is always in search of lower costs like airlines.

Of course, that same small government, red state mentality also comes with guns. Lots and lots of guns with few restrictions on ownership.

Plain and simple, Delta stepped onto popular platform du jour, and now they have to deal with the political fallout in their home state...where most people love the NRA.


That can easily be overcome by tax breaks, as Illinois and Chicago did for UA to move their headquarters vs. Houston. I'm sure B6 played Florida's tax advantages when renegotiating with the City and State of New York for their move to LIC.
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TVNWZ
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Tempest in a teapot. Six months from now nobody will remember this, and those tax breaks will be sneaked into some other legislation. It's all political posturing.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:03 pm

I can't imagine the economic benefit of having an airline HQ is a big deal to large cities however the hub and operations is a whole other ball of wax. MSP for example would gladly keep its hub over having DL relo their HQ
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:09 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Tempest in a teapot. Six months from now nobody will remember this, and those tax breaks will be sneaked into some other legislation. It's all political posturing.


Seconded with emphasis. If I'm not mistaken, the NY Times said that DL has agreed to keep their headquarters in ATL through 2036. No Fortune 500 company is going to pull up stakes over $40 million and no state government is going to try to antagonize them to that point.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Georgia Lt. Governor Threatens DL Over Cutting Ties with NRA

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Lots of people seem focused on the business Delta may lose as a result of this, but I also wonder how much they could gain - there may be people who will now choose to fly Delta over another carrier precisely because they are standing up to the NRA.

Overall, I suspect Delta will be just fine however this pans out. Perhaps they were fully prepared to take the $40-50M hit as the price to pay for taking this stand as a matter of principle.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:16 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Tempest in a teapot. Six months from now nobody will remember this, and those tax breaks will be sneaked into some other legislation. It's all political posturing.


Yup. For better or worse, news cycles move quickly.
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Italianflyer
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:17 pm

This is nothing more than political theater.
There is a governors race this cycle and plenty of pandering. I grew up in ATL; Georgia is a tale of 2 entities....the ATL area and everyone else. This plays well in rural, less developed counties.
 
Blerg
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:22 pm

'The company also professed its neutrality in a statement Saturday: “Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.”'

Delta issued this statement as well.

http://fortune.com/2018/02/27/delta-air ... n-georgia/
 
cledaybuck
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:49 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Not much. Delta has such a large operation there because it is a red state with low taxes and good business climate. To shareholders, the ROI is what matters. Georgia, Texas, Florida...these are good places to run a business that is always in search of lower costs like airlines.

Of course, that same small government, red state mentality also comes with guns. Lots and lots of guns with few restrictions on ownership.

Plain and simple, Delta stepped onto popular platform du jour, and now they have to deal with the political fallout in their home state...where most people love the NRA.
Is a state that threatens to raise your taxes if they don't like your politics really a good business climate?
 
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Aesma
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:50 pm

If it's a great state with low taxes, why the hell are they giving tax breaks ?
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richierich
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Re: DAL and its future with Georgia

Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:00 pm

Aesma wrote:
If it's a great state with low taxes, why the hell are they giving tax breaks ?


Do the ME3 know about these tax breaks? Isn't a tax break the distant cousin of a government subsidy? :stirthepot:
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