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WarRI1
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Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:15 am

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/republican-se ... ories.html


Too late to apologize? He now tries to undo the insults he made in front of a gathering of Conservatives. Surprise, surprise. I find it interesting that the Kaiser Family Foundation poll shows support growing for the Affordable Care Act, now up to 54 % according to them. Eight out of ten Republicans or Conservatives of course still oppose it. Still a majority is a majority is it not in this Democracy ?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:50 am

Poor Senator Hatch is getting old and has lost too many brain cells. At least he is leaving office, stepping aside for Willard.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:14 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/republican-sen-orrin-hatch-slams-obamacare-stupidest-dumbass-132103322--abc-news-topstories.html


Too late to apologize? He now tries to undo the insults he made in front of a gathering of Conservatives. Surprise, surprise. I find it interesting that the Kaiser Family Foundation poll shows support growing for the Affordable Care Act, now up to 54 % according to them. Eight out of ten Republicans or Conservatives of course still oppose it. Still a majority is a majority is it not in this Democracy ?


Similar to the poll that had Hillary winning by 20 points in the general? The ACA was a big part in the Dems crushing loss in the 2016 election. The middle of the electorate doesn't support the ACA. It was a horrible piece of legislation. Hatch should have not insulted the far left but doesn't change anything.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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moo
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:27 am

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/republican-sen-orrin-hatch-slams-obamacare-stupidest-dumbass-132103322--abc-news-topstories.html


Too late to apologize? He now tries to undo the insults he made in front of a gathering of Conservatives. Surprise, surprise. I find it interesting that the Kaiser Family Foundation poll shows support growing for the Affordable Care Act, now up to 54 % according to them. Eight out of ten Republicans or Conservatives of course still oppose it. Still a majority is a majority is it not in this Democracy ?


Similar to the poll that had Hillary winning by 20 points in the general? The ACA was a big part in the Dems crushing loss in the 2016 election. The middle of the electorate doesn't support the ACA. It was a horrible piece of legislation. Hatch should have not insulted the far left but doesn't change anything.


I rather think that most people rallying against the ACA didn't realise what they were rallying against...

I saw several "discussions" where someone was attacking Obamacare, but when asked what their situation was they responded that they were Ok because they got their healthcare under the ACA.

Why isn't healthcare a 100% government provided right in the US? Why are Americans so afraid of socialised healthcare but fine with fire, police, military etc etc etc.
 
WIederling
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:53 pm

moo wrote:
I saw several "discussions" where someone was attacking Obamacare, but when asked what their situation was they responded that they were Ok because they got their healthcare under the ACA.
.


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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Similar to the poll that had Hillary winning by 20 points in the general?

Please find me that poll. As far as I know, all polls tightened towards the last weeks of the campaign, especially after Comey went out and said "hey, more emails".

If anything, polls have the unfortunate defect of not showing a state by state situation. All national polls showed Clinton winning (and she did win the popular vote). A last minute shift in just 3 states swung the election to Trump. Hardly decisive when the three states were won by (razor thin) pluralities and not absolute majorities.

NIKV69 wrote:
The ACA was a big part in the Dems crushing loss in the 2016 election.
If Democrats weren't beaten in 2012, why is 2016 any different? The ACA was likely a blip. But hey, now that Republicans have played and touched it, it's theirs now (the penalty for not having coverage and the slow introduction of non-ACA compliant plans). So what will the excuse be if the GOP loses the 2018 midterms?

The lack of message doomed Democrats. The lack of vision doomed Democrats. Misplaced priorities and a puritanical test by the left wing doomed Democrats. And an FBI director crying wolf probably finished dooming Clinton's campaign.

NIKV69 wrote:
The middle of the electorate doesn't support the ACA. It was a horrible piece of legislation.

Polls beg to differ, but I get it. We should only believe in the polls that confirm our point of view. For example: polls showing Trump's approval ratings underwater are fake or not to be believed (because they also showed Clinton winning). A single poll (Rasmussen in this case) shows his approval rating in the black by 1 point and it's to be paraded as proof of everything (but somehow the logic of fake polls does NOT apply here, does it?)

NIKV69 wrote:
Hatch should have not insulted the far left but doesn't change anything.

A US Senator (actually, any politician) should be above insulting anyone, period. It's OK to disagree. But funny how insults are the daily bread until something they care about receives equal treatment; then it's shaming until no tomorrow.

Look no further than Republicans who demanded respect for the Presidency when Bush was in office, did not give Obama the same courtesy, and demand it once more for Trump.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:49 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/republican-sen-orrin-hatch-slams-obamacare-stupidest-dumbass-132103322--abc-news-topstories.html


Too late to apologize? He now tries to undo the insults he made in front of a gathering of Conservatives. Surprise, surprise. I find it interesting that the Kaiser Family Foundation poll shows support growing for the Affordable Care Act, now up to 54 % according to them. Eight out of ten Republicans or Conservatives of course still oppose it. Still a majority is a majority is it not in this Democracy ?


Similar to the poll that had Hillary winning by 20 points in the general? The ACA was a big part in the Dems crushing loss in the 2016 election. The middle of the electorate doesn't support the ACA. It was a horrible piece of legislation. Hatch should have not insulted the far left but doesn't change anything.


First of all, people were told they hate ACA/Obamacare by right wing media.

Second:

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/34 ... -obamacare
https://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser- ... 89%252C999

Looks like people actually LIKE ACA.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
jetero
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/republican-sen-orrin-hatch-slams-obamacare-stupidest-dumbass-132103322--abc-news-topstories.html


Too late to apologize? He now tries to undo the insults he made in front of a gathering of Conservatives. Surprise, surprise. I find it interesting that the Kaiser Family Foundation poll shows support growing for the Affordable Care Act, now up to 54 % according to them. Eight out of ten Republicans or Conservatives of course still oppose it. Still a majority is a majority is it not in this Democracy ?


Similar to the poll that had Hillary winning by 20 points in the general? The ACA was a big part in the Dems crushing loss in the 2016 election. The middle of the electorate doesn't support the ACA. It was a horrible piece of legislation. Hatch should have not insulted the far left but doesn't change anything.


Nikky, Nikky, Nikky.

You are famously unqualified for interpreting polls and election results.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:42 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Similar to the poll that had Hillary winning by 20 points in the general? The ACA was a big part in the Dems crushing loss in the 2016 election. The middle of the electorate doesn't support the ACA. It was a horrible piece of legislation. Hatch should have not insulted the far left but doesn't change anything.

Weirdly you are completely wrong. The ACA was actually well supported, especially by the "middle of the electorate". There was the fake news created by the conservative MSM on "Obamacare" that you amt be referring to. But whatever.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:15 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
. We should only believe in the polls that confirm our point of view. For example: polls showing Trump's approval ratings underwater are fake or not to be believed (because they also showed Clinton winning). A single poll (Rasmussen in this case) shows his approval rating in the black by 1 point and it's to be paraded as proof of everything (but somehow the logic of fake polls does NOT apply here, does it?)

.


It has been set up by the MSM to parade these horribly sampled polls out as a way to reinforce their doctrine. Which is why they are usually wrong but if your polls about his approval rating are correct then we will be saying President Sanders in 2021.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:00 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
. We should only believe in the polls that confirm our point of view. For example: polls showing Trump's approval ratings underwater are fake or not to be believed (because they also showed Clinton winning). A single poll (Rasmussen in this case) shows his approval rating in the black by 1 point and it's to be paraded as proof of everything (but somehow the logic of fake polls does NOT apply here, does it?)

.


It has been set up by the MSM to parade these horribly sampled polls out as a way to reinforce their doctrine. Which is why they are usually wrong but if your polls about his approval rating are correct then we will be saying President Sanders in 2021.




NKV, Would you define the abbreviation MSM, who are they? What is non-MSM? When you and the other right wing puppets use the term, doesen't that imply that they MSM is the most watched version of the news? Main stream does to me. Look up the term Main Stream please and get back to me. I am curious how you will spin it.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:06 pm

The 2016 Election was a very odd election and demonstrates the need to ship can the Electoral College. Twice in `6 Elections the EC had put the looser of the popular vote into the office, We can argue for the years about the farce of the 2000 Election, but the 2016 Election was a total failure of the EC. Someone loosing the Election by 3 million votes should not have been given the Office. It's obvious that those writing the Constitution never anticipated the US expanding to 50 states or a candidate like Trump.

The same goes for Health Care. The level of health care available when the Constitution was written was a joke compared to today and the failure to address a framework for health care was just as ignorant as including slavery. Sadly many in the radical right still hold that well out of date opinion on health.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:42 am

Ken777 wrote:
Poor Senator Hatch is getting old and has lost too many brain cells. At least he is leaving office, stepping aside for Willard.


Like Trump he thinks he's superior to everybody. He's been a embarrassment to Utah for a very long time. I suspect he's angry because the people who are keeping him in power have asked him to step down. I suspect they also told him to apology.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:05 am

Ken777 wrote:
The 2016 Election was a very odd election and demonstrates the need to ship can the Electoral College. Twice in `6 Elections the EC had put the looser of the popular vote into the office, We can argue for the years about the farce of the 2000 Election, but the 2016 Election was a total failure of the EC. Someone loosing the Election by 3 million votes should not have been given the Office. It's obvious that those writing the Constitution never anticipated the US expanding to 50 states or a candidate like Trump.

The same goes for Health Care. The level of health care available when the Constitution was written was a joke compared to today and the failure to address a framework for health care was just as ignorant as including slavery. Sadly many in the radical right still hold that well out of date opinion on health.


Not that I disagree with you but I wonder how many people would be saying that if it were Hillary who won? I would suspect few. At least on the D side.

Playing the devil's advocate a lot of the country saw the electoral college as a good thing this time around.

I don't think healthcare is a constitutional issue. There are a lot of moderates on both sides who want change but see single payer or current policies as a bad idea.
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alfa164
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:26 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Poor Senator Hatch is getting old and has lost too many brain cells. At least he is leaving office, stepping aside for Willard.

Like Trump he thinks he's superior to everybody. He's been a embarrassment to Utah for a very long time. I suspect he's angry because the people who are keeping him in power have asked him to step down. I suspect they also told him to apology.


Maybe he's angry because he is not eligible for Obamacare... ;)
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:38 am

CCGPV wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The 2016 Election was a very odd election and demonstrates the need to ship can the Electoral College. Twice in `6 Elections the EC had put the looser of the popular vote into the office, We can argue for the years about the farce of the 2000 Election, but the 2016 Election was a total failure of the EC. Someone loosing the Election by 3 million votes should not have been given the Office. It's obvious that those writing the Constitution never anticipated the US expanding to 50 states or a candidate like Trump.

The same goes for Health Care. The level of health care available when the Constitution was written was a joke compared to today and the failure to address a framework for health care was just as ignorant as including slavery. Sadly many in the radical right still hold that well out of date opinion on health.


Not that I disagree with you but I wonder how many people would be saying that if it were Hillary who won? I would suspect few. At least on the D side.

Playing the devil's advocate a lot of the country saw the electoral college as a good thing this time around.

I don't think healthcare is a constitutional issue. There are a lot of moderates on both sides who want change but see single payer or current policies as a bad idea.


Many people across the political spectrum have wanted the Electoral College taken away for a very long time. I have thought it is a bad idea since the 1996 elections. I get why it was used at first. But, now, I think it should be stopped.

The people who love the EC this time had their candidate lose by nearly 3,000,000 votes, so they are huge supporters of EC. Now. WHEN their guy loses in 2020 (both EC and popular vote) they WILL scream and cry and carry on about how rigged the Constitution is and so forth.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:00 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Not that I disagree with you but I wonder how many people would be saying that if it were Hillary who won? I would suspect few. At least on the D side.

If the popular results were retained, that would be irrelevant as the EC reflects the popular vote.

If it were a mirror image of Trump winning PV and Clinton winning EC, what would we do? I'd still find it broken even if my preferred choice won. What goes around comes around.

CCGPV wrote:
Playing the devil's advocate a lot of the country saw the electoral college as a good thing this time around.
How so? When the electors are merely party loyalists, the EC loses any sense of protection people endow it with. Hitler himself could run and if party loyalists are the electors (or folks who sympathize with him), he wins and the idea that the EC protects against tyrannical leaders is blown away.

seb146 wrote:
Now. WHEN their guy loses in 2020 (both EC and popular vote) they WILL scream and cry and carry on about how rigged the Constitution is and so forth.
Silly seb. The rallying cry in 2020 if Trump and the GOP lose is "voter fraud". With Herr Trump admiring Xi Jinping for abolishing term limits, don't be surprised if he loses the election and decides to suspend the Constitution because there was voter fraud.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
CCGPV
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:42 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:

With Herr Trump admiring Xi Jinping for abolishing term limits, don't be surprised if he loses the election and decides to suspend the Constitution because there was voter fraud.


I have never heard a more rediculous thing in my life.
I have all day.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:35 pm

CCGPV wrote:
I have never heard a more rediculous thing in my life.

Don't know what "rediculous" is (tip: if you're gonna attack the quality of a statement, ensure yours is up to par as well), but you know what used to be a ridiculous statement?

"Trump will win the 2016 election"

And look at where we are now. Never say never. It wasn't too long ago that House Republicans voted to gut the Office of Congressional Ethics, so why is it "rediculous" to think that Congress and/or Trump may invoke some privilege to cling to power?

A poll shows Trump underwater in South Carolina. If that state and a few other red ones flip in 2020, do you really think the GOP will give up power easily?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
CCGPV
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:40 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
I have never heard a more rediculous thing in my life.

Don't know what "rediculous" is (tip: if you're gonna attack the quality of a statement, ensure yours is up to par as well), but you know what used to be a ridiculous statement?

"Trump will win the 2016 election"

And look at where we are now. Never say never. It wasn't too long ago that House Republicans voted to gut the Office of Congressional Ethics, so why is it "rediculous" to think that Congress and/or Trump may invoke some privilege to cling to power?

A poll shows Trump underwater in South Carolina. If that state and a few other red ones flip in 2020, do you really think the GOP will give up power easily?


It was a simple spelling error. Thankfully your superior intellect was able to deduce the meaning behind my statement.

So you think there will be a coup in the USA because of Donald Trump? I just don't know how to respond to that amount of idiocy.

How is that supposed to work? Walk me though your idea of how that would be possible?
I have all day.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:22 pm

Ken777 wrote:
The 2016 Election was a very odd election and demonstrates the need to ship can the Electoral College. Twice in `6 Elections the EC had put the looser of the popular vote into the office, We can argue for the years about the farce of the 2000 Election, but the 2016 Election was a total failure of the EC. Someone loosing the Election by 3 million votes should not have been given the Office. It's obvious that those writing the Constitution never anticipated the US expanding to 50 states or a candidate like Trump.

The same goes for Health Care. The level of health care available when the Constitution was written was a joke compared to today and the failure to address a framework for health care was just as ignorant as including slavery. Sadly many in the radical right still hold that well out of date opinion on health.


The electoral college isn't going anywhere. It takes a 2/3'rds majority in both the House and Senate to pass a constitutional amendment, and it takes 3/4'ths of the state legislatures to ratify an amendment. Furthermore, every amendment proposed in the last 100+ years has had a time limit.

What cost Hillary the election in 2016 was constructing a campaign that mostly just appealed to
people living in large urban areas. She took PA, MI, and WI for granted. The electoral college did exactly what it was designed to do, and that is prevent a candidate with limited geographical appeal from winning the presidency.
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:40 am

CCGPV wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
I have never heard a more rediculous thing in my life.

Don't know what "rediculous" is (tip: if you're gonna attack the quality of a statement, ensure yours is up to par as well), but you know what used to be a ridiculous statement?

"Trump will win the 2016 election"

And look at where we are now. Never say never. It wasn't too long ago that House Republicans voted to gut the Office of Congressional Ethics, so why is it "rediculous" to think that Congress and/or Trump may invoke some privilege to cling to power?

A poll shows Trump underwater in South Carolina. If that state and a few other red ones flip in 2020, do you really think the GOP will give up power easily?


It was a simple spelling error. Thankfully your superior intellect was able to deduce the meaning behind my statement.

So you think there will be a coup in the USA because of Donald Trump? I just don't know how to respond to that amount of idiocy.

How is that supposed to work? Walk me though your idea of how that would be possible?


http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ch ... ?r=UK&IR=T

And with you righties and Trumpettes just rolling over for whatever he wants and him stacking the Supreme Court and Mitch McConnell holding that seat open for him, do you really have to ask how it will happen?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
CCGPV
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:23 am

seb146 wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Don't know what "rediculous" is (tip: if you're gonna attack the quality of a statement, ensure yours is up to par as well), but you know what used to be a ridiculous statement?

"Trump will win the 2016 election"

And look at where we are now. Never say never. It wasn't too long ago that House Republicans voted to gut the Office of Congressional Ethics, so why is it "rediculous" to think that Congress and/or Trump may invoke some privilege to cling to power?

A poll shows Trump underwater in South Carolina. If that state and a few other red ones flip in 2020, do you really think the GOP will give up power easily?


It was a simple spelling error. Thankfully your superior intellect was able to deduce the meaning behind my statement.

So you think there will be a coup in the USA because of Donald Trump? I just don't know how to respond to that amount of idiocy.

How is that supposed to work? Walk me though your idea of how that would be possible?


http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ch ... ?r=UK&IR=T

And with you righties and Trumpettes just rolling over for whatever he wants and him stacking the Supreme Court and Mitch McConnell holding that seat open for him, do you really have to ask how it will happen?


I voted for Hillary and am a democrat so I don't know why you think I'm a Trumpette. Every president "stacks the court" with their picks. McConnell was holding the seat hoping a republican would win, not for Trump.

The article you quoted mentioned he was at a fundraiser. I listened to the audio and it was a comedy speech. He made all sorts of jokes and jabs. Literally nobody in the room was taking his words seriously because it was a lighthearted dinner speech presidents give thousands of times a year. Enough with this pearl clutching.

I hate the guy but to think he's going to actually engineer a COUP in the USA is just ridiculous. Nobody ever comes back with any sort of logical answer with how it would work. How would he do that? What steps would he take to ensure he became a lifelong dictator in the United States of America?

The guy can barely keep a press secretary in the white house, half his party hates his guts and he's largely disliked by the nation yet he's going to engineer the support of the military, millions of people and massive portions of the government to become a dictator.

If you actually believe that you are a very dumb individual.

The lack of critical thinking is astounding.
I have all day.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:36 am

This from the guy who is so senile that he took off a fake pair of glasses.... Obamacare ain't great but what's even more idiotic is spending more on healthcare than any comparable nation and getting far worse results: that's some real dumbassery right there but the right is *committed* to it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:20 am

CCGPV wrote:
seb146 wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

It was a simple spelling error. Thankfully your superior intellect was able to deduce the meaning behind my statement.

So you think there will be a coup in the USA because of Donald Trump? I just don't know how to respond to that amount of idiocy.

How is that supposed to work? Walk me though your idea of how that would be possible?


http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ch ... ?r=UK&IR=T

And with you righties and Trumpettes just rolling over for whatever he wants and him stacking the Supreme Court and Mitch McConnell holding that seat open for him, do you really have to ask how it will happen?


I voted for Hillary and am a democrat so I don't know why you think I'm a Trumpette. Every president "stacks the court" with their picks. McConnell was holding the seat hoping a republican would win, not for Trump.

The article you quoted mentioned he was at a fundraiser. I listened to the audio and it was a comedy speech. He made all sorts of jokes and jabs. Literally nobody in the room was taking his words seriously because it was a lighthearted dinner speech presidents give thousands of times a year. Enough with this pearl clutching.

I hate the guy but to think he's going to actually engineer a COUP in the USA is just ridiculous. Nobody ever comes back with any sort of logical answer with how it would work. How would he do that? What steps would he take to ensure he became a lifelong dictator in the United States of America?

The guy can barely keep a press secretary in the white house, half his party hates his guts and he's largely disliked by the nation yet he's going to engineer the support of the military, millions of people and massive portions of the government to become a dictator.

If you actually believe that you are a very dumb individual.

The lack of critical thinking is astounding.


In the one short month you have been here, you have supported tRump at every turn and you call me dumb.

You are done. Bye.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
treetreeseven
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:24 am

The electoral college is here to stay until the constitution is replaced. Low population states will never ratify the amendment required to remove it.

If you don't like it, support this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... te_Compact

Personally, I would prefer to see the EC retained, but distribution of electors be proportional to the popular vote in any given state, with the "extra" 2 electors going to the winner of that state. It drastically reduces edge cases like 2016 and lets the low population states retain the little edge they were given (as does the continued existence of the Senate, before y'all pipe up with the rage about the EC giving low population states a weighting advantage in federal politics - it's not the only thing to do so, and that's by design).
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:12 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
The electoral college is here to stay until the constitution is replaced. Low population states will never ratify the amendment required to remove it.

If anything, low population states have the greatest incentive to reform it or remove it. Let's consider a small state those that have up to 6 electors (i.e. up to 4 reps in the House). With that we'll get:
  • Iowa
  • Utah
  • Arkansas
  • Nevada
  • Mississippi
  • Kansas
  • New Mexico
  • Nebraska
  • West Virginia
  • Idaho
  • Hawaii
  • New Hampshire
  • Maine
  • Rhode Island
  • Montana
  • Delaware
  • South Dakota
  • North Dakota
  • Alaska
  • DC (not a state but still gets EC votes)
  • Vermont
  • Wyoming

Out of all of these states, only two (IA, NH) are seriously contested, with a further two (NE, ME) visited due to their EC proportion, but only certain districts (NE-2, ME-2). What incentive do the remaining states have to retain the EC when no candidate (Republican or Democrat) visits them? Why would a Democrat be concerned with SD if SD is gonna vote for the GOP regardless? Why would a Republican even care about HI if its vote will go to the Democrat candidate?

Shifting to a popular vote, however, forces candidates to no longer rely on a plurality/majority threshold per state and instead visit every state to maximize their base. I live in a safe blue state and have no incentive to go out and vote because no matter what, the Democrat will win the state (and MD being among the most reliably blue states, it'll take a massive wave to flip it red). With a popular vote, I can no longer rely on MD giving votes to a candidate and instead the individual votes will get tallied up with the national total.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
CCGPV
Posts: 618
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
seb146 wrote:

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-ch ... ?r=UK&IR=T

And with you righties and Trumpettes just rolling over for whatever he wants and him stacking the Supreme Court and Mitch McConnell holding that seat open for him, do you really have to ask how it will happen?


I voted for Hillary and am a democrat so I don't know why you think I'm a Trumpette. Every president "stacks the court" with their picks. McConnell was holding the seat hoping a republican would win, not for Trump.

The article you quoted mentioned he was at a fundraiser. I listened to the audio and it was a comedy speech. He made all sorts of jokes and jabs. Literally nobody in the room was taking his words seriously because it was a lighthearted dinner speech presidents give thousands of times a year. Enough with this pearl clutching.

I hate the guy but to think he's going to actually engineer a COUP in the USA is just ridiculous. Nobody ever comes back with any sort of logical answer with how it would work. How would he do that? What steps would he take to ensure he became a lifelong dictator in the United States of America?

The guy can barely keep a press secretary in the white house, half his party hates his guts and he's largely disliked by the nation yet he's going to engineer the support of the military, millions of people and massive portions of the government to become a dictator.

If you actually believe that you are a very dumb individual.

The lack of critical thinking is astounding.


In the one short month you have been here, you have supported tRump at every turn and you call me dumb.

You are done. Bye.


Can you quote one of my posts that supports Trump, his agenda or policies? I bet you can't. Not to mention I've said numerous times I voted for Hillary to try and keep Trump out of office. But I guess questioning sensational statements makes me a Trump supporter.

I might argue with people who are blindly against any policy of his what so ever but I don't support the man and never have. I'm against partisan hackery and generally ignorant statements, whoever makes them.

Yet again nobody comes up with any thoughts on how Trump is becoming a dictator. They just vomit out dumb statements and then disappear when asked to provide any sort of evidence. And when asked to articulate what they mean they blame someone for being "on the other side."

Amazing. This is partisan America.
I have all day.
 
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WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 11053
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 pm

Yet again nobody comes up with any thoughts on how Trump is becoming a dictator. They just vomit out dumb statements and then disappear when asked to provide any sort of evidence. And when asked to articulate what they mean they blame someone for being "on the other side."

Unfortunately very common on here, and that is sad. I asked the other day about explaining what Main Stream Media means to the Right Wing, nothing as usual, but it is spouted over and over again. It is the Scape Goat term for anything the Right wing does not agree with, yet nothing in the way of how they and why they use the name for anything phony in their view.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:02 pm

This thread is indicative of American politics. Too many people arguing over personalities and whether the guy in charge will be a dictator. And whether or not a piece of legislation is good because of who it was named after (Obama). Republicans can’t accept Obamacare because it’s named after their nemisis even though it’s basically Romneycare, a free market healthcare law written by insurance companies who killed a public option.
And the current leadership of the Democratic Party defends it because it’s named after their hero even though it fails to address the fundamental flaws with American healthcare, the fact it costs twice as much as the rest of the world whilst still failing to insure 100% of the population and provides much worse health outcomes. The democratic base supports Medicare for all but that has about zero percent chance of happening with the current Democratic Party leadership.
 
seb146
Posts: 16285
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
This thread is indicative of American politics. Too many people arguing over personalities and whether the guy in charge will be a dictator. And whether or not a piece of legislation is good because of who it was named after (Obama). Republicans can’t accept Obamacare because it’s named after their nemisis even though it’s basically Romneycare, a free market healthcare law written by insurance companies who killed a public option.
And the current leadership of the Democratic Party defends it because it’s named after their hero even though it fails to address the fundamental flaws with American healthcare, the fact it costs twice as much as the rest of the world whilst still failing to insure 100% of the population and provides much worse health outcomes. The democratic base supports Medicare for all but that has about zero percent chance of happening with the current Democratic Party leadership.


I agree with nearly all of what you say. What I do not agree with is your points about the Democratic leadership. Leadership and the party at large are changing. Many within the party hate ACA as it is written. Many want to expand it and make it different. Single Payer is catching on and many are liking that idea to replace ACA.

https://www.npr.org/2017/02/11/51473221 ... t-know-tha
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 6254
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Re: Sen. Slams Obama Healthcare supporters

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:54 am

CCGPV wrote:
Yet again nobody comes up with any thoughts on how Trump is becoming a dictator. They just vomit out dumb statements and then disappear when asked to provide any sort of evidence.

There's a saying in Spanish that literally translates to "None are more blind than those who refuse to see".

You're asking how I think Trump is becoming a dictator. I have not said anything of the sort (please find the exact wording). However, there are certain things that are being said and/or done and the optics aren't good:
1. The lack of due process, a constitutional right for all Americans in ANY situation. Trump has already mentioned it, even if he walked it back. It is debatable if an American that joins ISIS has lost their rights by committing treason against the nation (I'm of the opinion that yes, they have lost them), but even for a crime, there is a right to due process and a trial.
2. The constant admiration and praise of authoritarian figures like Putin, Duterte, and Erdogan, to name a few.
3. The recent "joke" about giving a shot at abolishing term limits. While it will take a constitutional amendment to get rid of term limits (i.e. will likely not happen), it is in the context he's saying it that concerns people. It's one thing to serve out your two terms and be an extremely popular incumbent for people to consider abolishing term limits; it's another to follow in the footsteps of a guy whose party controls all government structures and who is aiming to rule for as long as he wishes so long as he retains party loyalty. "Hey, he's doing it, so why don't we?".
4. Continuing to rally the base by promoting the possibility of jailing Clinton, his political opponent in 2016. "Lock her up", anyone?
5. Still not accepting that he lost the popular vote by something other than voter fraud. What's to prevent him from using the same excuse if he loses both the popular vote AND electoral college vote? How would his supporters react if their world is rocked by Trump losing the election if a few red states flipped blue?
6. The tacit approval for white supremacy and stereotyping of Hispanics and Muslims.
7. What about a continuous attack on law enforcement agencies and publicly questioning intelligence agencies?
8. Your right to free speech exists so long as you do it the way HE wants you. In other words, any criticism of him is fake or unAmerican, and to take a knee for the anthem and flag is "disrespectful".

But a leader can't act alone. Why do I think that a Republican-led Congress may turn a blind-eye?
1. A sizable portion of the GOP base is also on the voter fraud and "Lock her up" bandwagons.
2. Suddenly, the same GOP base has great admiration of strong men.
3. The GOP-led Senate maliciously denied President Obama's SCOTUS nominee even a hearing. But not only that, some were prepared to block any appointees had Clinton won. It is debatable whether the Senate can withhold consent in the form of refusing hearings for candidates they never found objectionable in the first place.
4. The sudden lapping to the presidency, the demand for respect, and how dissent is unpatriotic and unAmerican. As if during a SotU it is mandatory to stand up and clap. I believe Trump suggested such an act to be called treasonous. I wonder where else it is treasonous to not clap for a leader making a speech before a legislative body...
5. The willingness of GOP officials to pretend like nothing is wrong or remain silent.

Now, do I think this WILL happen? No (and please find where I said it WILL). I still have faith in our institutions and that Trump will still have respect for authority and hand power over when the time comes. What I DID say was:
einsteinboricua wrote:
don't be surprised if he loses the election and decides to suspend the Constitution because there was voter fraud.

meaning that all the signs for such an act are present and it is only our trust in the institutions that prevent us from thinking that a scenario like this WILL happen.

In other words, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and walks like a duck, don't be surprised when you find out it IS a duck.

As for the whole
CCGPV wrote:
disappear when asked to provide any sort of evidence.


I can understand if you don't have to work and are able to spend endless hours on the site. You may find this hard to believe but many posters here (myself included) actually HAVE a job and to entertain your demand for a thoughtful post (supported by evidence) requires more than the 5 minute coffee break where I can quickly post a reply, even though I don't know why I bothered when the whole premise is described by you as:
CCGPV wrote:
dumb

CCGPV wrote:
lack of critical thinking

CCGPV wrote:
idiocy

CCGPV wrote:
rediculous


But it is clear that no matter what I post, your mind has been made up so consider this the end to our discussion, especially as were getting offtrack.
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