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lightsaber
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YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:43 pm

We all know about the demonetization of gun channels, conservative comedians, and video game channels.

For example, Military arms channel has had to disable their channel due to a strike. Please recall, for conservative channels, they will not restart the channel after three strikes (all subscribers lost, all content is permanently deleted).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y50rwBtiZBU


I'm all for rules. But has anyone else cut their YouTube viewing? I'm over at Patreon, Full30, and other channels now to find the content I enjoy. For example, I'm a history buff and many channels such as Forgotten Weapons have just finished their WW1 coverage and are starting a multi-year WW2 project to go into the history the school books skip. In many cases, finding records to let users know how to question politicized history. For example, I still have fun finding all the lies in my early education history books. (Yes, lies.) For example, I was taught Robert Fulton invented the steam boat and Eli Whitney interchangeable parts. Instead, we find Europeans invented that technology decades before it came over to America. cest la vie. I want to know real history in all its ugliness, uncertainty.

For example, I have a picture on my wall from Pearl Harbor early 1942 of my grandfather and dozens of other Navy doctors. I know which 3 survived the war and have the letters on how the Japanese executed the rest (except for a few honestly killed in combat). I know from my grandfather's perspective why he knew he would die if operation Olympic (invasion of Japan) had gone forward due to his prior battle experience. I'm not angry about anything, I really like to know the mindset of the time.

And yes, I read 1984 and Brave New World.

These channels will disappear if they keep having to re-acquire their large subscriber bases. Am I the only one who watches less YouTube than prior to demonitization here? Too much of the content I enjoy now appears elsewhere weeks ahead of time (recall, 90% of views are within week 2 of content presentation).

I'm all for people having their own political view. Heck, I live in Southern California, so I know the local politics are not my politics. I'm fine with that. I used to enjoy that.

While I normally don't like fox news, sometimes they are the only news on how YouTube is now 'mistaken' for how much content they recently removed. But the reality is, I believe they know many channels won't recover which is Google's intent:
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/03/01/ ... -says.html


Lightsaber
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Jouhou
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:58 pm

I believe this was about damage control. Supposedly they have a three strikes and you're out policy when it comes to things like ideas that the school shootings are staged and consequently victims and their parents are terrorized by death threats because people believe the "crisis actor" bs. It happened to Sandy hook parents thanks to alex Jones and I can assure you it really did happen.
 
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scbriml
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:32 pm

Jouhou wrote:
It happened to Sandy hook parents thanks to alex Jones and I can assure you it really did happen.


Yes, that Alex Jones is a real piece of work... :banghead:
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:49 pm

Live Leak seems to be full of right wing conspiracy videos such as shootings being faked, Muslims having a secret plot to take over Europe and/or the U.S., etc. And there are plenty of sexist, racist, and/or Islamophobia comments on any video no matter what the topic is.
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ltbewr
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:58 pm

YouTube is a private company and can place or remove content that is not in their best financial interest. They are not directly subject to the 1st Amendment like a government is. Some material has been pulled due to issues of copyright infringement, pressure from governments (including the USA), pressure from corporations especially as to advertising alongside certain controversial subjects, complaints from certain groups (religious, ethnic), legal limitations or bans of certain content by some countries like pro-Nazi or hate speech.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:04 pm

Seems straightforward. Use a platform, abide by their rules. Break them 3 times, you're out...especially when warned repeatedly about the same subject.
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NIKV69
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:37 pm

scbriml wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
It happened to Sandy hook parents thanks to alex Jones and I can assure you it really did happen.


Yes, that Alex Jones is a real piece of work... :banghead:


His Piers Morgan appearance will go down in history.
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coolian2
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:37 pm

YouTube =/= Google, so unless the wingnuts want to create another unlikely conspiracy theory.....oh, that IS what they want to do?
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Route66
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:24 pm

coolian2 wrote:
YouTube =/= Google, so unless the wingnuts want to create another unlikely conspiracy theory.....oh, that IS what they want to do?


Which is not quite so far fetched when you consider local Silicon Valley politics.
 
CCGPV
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:54 pm

Just go film dead bodies while making jokes and laughing, disrespecting cultures through racism and physical violence, animal abuse etc. YouTube supports that sort of thing with full force.

Their most popular channels feature that content all the time. Its great for the kids.
Stay curious
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:08 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

His Piers Morgan appearance will go down in history.



And look whose come along to jock-sniff, Alex Jones.. if it isn't our resident highly intelligent and moderate conservative!! I am just shocked.
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CCGPV
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:13 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Seems straightforward. Use a platform, abide by their rules. Break them 3 times, you're out...especially when warned repeatedly about the same subject.


I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. There are lots of channels with way worse content that are promoted by YouTube.
Stay curious
 
af773atmsp
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:38 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Just go film dead bodies while making jokes and laughing, disrespecting cultures through racism and physical violence, animal abuse etc. YouTube supports that sort of thing with full force.

Their most popular channels feature that content all the time. Its great for the kids.


Don’t forget clickbait and social experiments.
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Jouhou
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:54 pm

CCGPV wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Seems straightforward. Use a platform, abide by their rules. Break them 3 times, you're out...especially when warned repeatedly about the same subject.


I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. There are lots of channels with way worse content that are promoted by YouTube.


However, the "crisis actor" conspiracy theories are more likely to bring lawsuits, which is what youtube actually cares about.

Having victims of tragedies get threatened by nutters who watched some conspiracy video is not a good look, especially when all involved entities exist within the US where YouTube can easily be sued.
 
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cpd
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:56 pm

Youtube isn't a democracy, it's a website just like this one here is. And as always, you use that site, then you abide by their terms and conditions.

Just as a "liberal" user would be told if they were on a conservative website/forum and got banned - the conservatives would say exactly the same thing.

CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. T


They are allowed to be as uneven and vague as they wish, just like any website can be. If they were run by the government, then they would have to be completely transparent.
 
CCGPV
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:19 pm

cpd wrote:
Youtube isn't a democracy, it's a website just like this one here is. And as always, you use that site, then you abide by their terms and conditions.

Just as a "liberal" user would be told if they were on a conservative website/forum and got banned - the conservatives would say exactly the same thing.

CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. T


They are allowed to be as uneven and vague as they wish, just like any website can be. If they were run by the government, then they would have to be completely transparent.


Yes but quality websites don't do things like that or work to reduce them. Saying its not a democracy is an excuse for a poorly managed business. There will be lawsuits to settle this as well. That sort of thing happens in every industry.

There are channels dedicated to illegal activity, violence, conspiracies, sex, etc that are totally left alone while other channels are targeted. That's not a way to run a business. It effects the bottom line when advertisers and creators are wary about buying ads because channels might be shut down arbitrarily and literally by robots using mysterious algorithms nobody understands.
Stay curious
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:22 pm

ltbewr wrote:
YouTube is a private company and can place or remove content that is not in their best financial interest. They are not directly subject to the 1st Amendment like a government is. Some material has been pulled due to issues of copyright infringement, pressure from governments (including the USA), pressure from corporations especially as to advertising alongside certain controversial subjects, complaints from certain groups (religious, ethnic), legal limitations or bans of certain content by some countries like pro-Nazi or hate speech.


That's true, but YouTube is owned by Google. It seems that social media ownership is even more concentrated than TV and cable networks. It's also quite skewed geographically. I too am not a fan of Fox News' tabloid approach to covering news, but MSNBC talking heads might as well be from Mars. I wouldn't be surprised if tech (whatever that term means) keeps on imposing a narrow ideological bias, that there might be calls to regulate or break up the merged entities just as there were calls to regulate the railroads and Standard Oil at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century.
 
solarflyer22
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:29 pm

I hope YouTube down rates them, pulls ads and forces them onto their own FauxNews network. Faux News is in reality a "conservative culture network" devoid of most news. If that's what dumb people in Mericuh want, that's fine but tha'ts not what most people and/or advertisers are interested in on YouTube, a global site.

It was Conservatives themselves that got rid of the FCC's fair play rule where networks had to present each side of an argument and give 50% of the time. That rule change lets FauxNews flourish but it also means its the wild wild west out there and YouTube or Google can blackball anyone.

The real issue is with Conservatism itself. Their base will shrink over time not grow. They'll self segregate from main stream society into a tribe that is overtly racist, denies climate change, denies healthcare coverage, sponsors foreign wars in MENA, is anti-abortion and believes in unrestrained gun rights. You can't integrate that into mainstream American society easily so they have to carve out niches everywhere for themselves and say dont come here.
 
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:37 pm

solarflyer22 wrote:
I hope YouTube down rates them, pulls ads and forces them onto their own FauxNews network. Faux News is in reality a "conservative culture network" devoid of most news. If that's what dumb people in Mericuh want, that's fine but tha'ts not what most people and/or advertisers are interested in on YouTube, a global site.

It was Conservatives themselves that got rid of the FCC's fair play rule where networks had to present each side of an argument and give 50% of the time. That rule change lets FauxNews flourish but it also means its the wild wild west out there and YouTube or Google can blackball anyone.

The real issue is with Conservatism itself. Their base will shrink over time not grow. They'll self segregate from main stream society into a tribe that is overtly racist, denies climate change, denies healthcare coverage, sponsors foreign wars in MENA, is anti-abortion and believes in unrestrained gun rights. You can't integrate that into mainstream American society easily so they have to carve out niches everywhere for themselves and say dont come here.


Wow, tell us how you really feel.

Advertisers love FOX news. They have more eyeballs watching every commercial than any other news channel or YouTube channel in existence. They are an ad companies dream network.
Stay curious
 
apodino
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:45 pm

Its not just what the original poster posted. Dennis Prager, who is a conservative talk radio host, runs a website called Prager University, which has a lot of YouTube videos posted on a wide ranging variety of topics. Though some of it is material that people might not agree with, nothing is really different than one would hear on a broadcast network. However, YouTube has put an age restriction on the content and put it behind a log in, and people are upset about this and Prager is even suing YouTube over this.

I get political viewpoints, but if you tend to favor one side over another, it is not going to benefit you long term. But YouTube is doing exactly that.
 
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:11 am

CCGPV wrote:
Advertisers love FOX news. They have more eyeballs watching every commercial than any other news channel or YouTube channel in existence. They are an ad companies dream network.
Solarflyer was not talking about advertising on Fox. He was talking about advertising on Youtube.

The USA are a conservative bunch. By global standards even the democrats are centre or slightly right of centre. That is why Fox has the amount of advertisers it has; Fox caters mostly to the USA market. So if someone wants to specifically reach an American audience, Fox is an obvious choice.

Youtube caters to a global audience. Therefor, Youtube has to please advertisers that want to reach a global audience. Sometimes this is done through targetted filters often mandated by local governments (e.g. China), often by generic filters. The generic filters will inevitably be, by USA standards, leaning left. Again, for no other reason then because, by global standards, the USA is leaning right.
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EstherLouise
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 am

CCGPV wrote:

Advertisers love FOX news. They have more eyeballs watching every commercial than any other news channel or YouTube channel in existence. They are an ad companies dream network.


I decided to watch O'Reilly a few months ago. The ads dealt with impotence medication (two kinds), some sort of hocus-pocus skin rub for arthritis called Blue Emu, subscriptions to the print version of National Review, and Life Alert (I've fallen and I can't get up). Sounds like O'Reilly's viewers were old people who can't get up or get it up and have sore joints.
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CCGPV
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:34 am

EstherLouise wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Advertisers love FOX news. They have more eyeballs watching every commercial than any other news channel or YouTube channel in existence. They are an ad companies dream network.


I decided to watch O'Reilly a few months ago. The ads dealt with impotence medication (two kinds), some sort of hocus-pocus skin rub for arthritis called Blue Emu, subscriptions to the print version of National Review, and Life Alert (I've fallen and I can't get up). Sounds like O'Reilly's viewers were old people who can't get up or get it up and have sore joints.


Its the same across most news channels and probably TV as a whole. 55-70 is the prime demographic age for FOX, CNN, MSNBC.
Stay curious
 
bagoldex
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:02 am

EstherLouise wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Advertisers love FOX news. They have more eyeballs watching every commercial than any other news channel or YouTube channel in existence. They are an ad companies dream network.


I decided to watch O'Reilly a few months ago. The ads dealt with impotence medication (two kinds), some sort of hocus-pocus skin rub for arthritis called Blue Emu, subscriptions to the print version of National Review, and Life Alert (I've fallen and I can't get up). Sounds like O'Reilly's viewers were old people who can't get up or get it up and have sore joints.


No reverse mortgage or catheter ads? The broke and almost dead ... what a great demo!
 
seb146
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:22 am

I love how conservatives cry about how they have little media exposure then turn around and say their conservative outlet is the most watched and that tons of money is being poured into conservative outlets. Sorry, but you can not have both.
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Jouhou
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:23 am

bagoldex wrote:
EstherLouise wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Advertisers love FOX news. They have more eyeballs watching every commercial than any other news channel or YouTube channel in existence. They are an ad companies dream network.


I decided to watch O'Reilly a few months ago. The ads dealt with impotence medication (two kinds), some sort of hocus-pocus skin rub for arthritis called Blue Emu, subscriptions to the print version of National Review, and Life Alert (I've fallen and I can't get up). Sounds like O'Reilly's viewers were old people who can't get up or get it up and have sore joints.


No reverse mortgage or catheter ads? The broke and almost dead ... what a great demo!


Yeah, I don't see Fox news surviving the boomer die off. For some reason boomers just seem more... gullible. I don't know if it's because we Millennials grew up in the 80s and 90s when American ultra consumerism and associated advertising were pervasive(and thus became resistant to it). But boomers just lap up obvious bs without questioning it.
 
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EstherLouise
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:48 am

Jouhou wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
EstherLouise wrote:

I decided to watch O'Reilly a few months ago. The ads dealt with impotence medication (two kinds), some sort of hocus-pocus skin rub for arthritis called Blue Emu, subscriptions to the print version of National Review, and Life Alert (I've fallen and I can't get up). Sounds like O'Reilly's viewers were old people who can't get up or get it up and have sore joints.


No reverse mortgage or catheter ads? The broke and almost dead ... what a great demo!


Yeah, I don't see Fox news surviving the boomer die off. For some reason boomers just seem more... gullible. I don't know if it's because we Millennials grew up in the 80s and 90s when American ultra consumerism and associated advertising were pervasive(and thus became resistant to it). But boomers just lap up obvious bs without questioning it.


I've read a lot of them haven't thought through the reverse mortgage thing. They sign up and love the flow of income, but then they think they can just up and sell their house, expecting to get nearly all of the money it sold for.
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jpetekyxmd80
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:57 am

Jouhou wrote:
Yeah, I don't see Fox news surviving the boomer die off. For some reason boomers just seem more... gullible. I don't know if it's because we Millennials grew up in the 80s and 90s when American ultra consumerism and associated advertising were pervasive(and thus became resistant to it). But boomers just lap up obvious bs without questioning it.


It's pretty much an awful generation of self-centered spoiled brat entitlement completely oblivious to how good they have had it. Millennials may be no picnic, but the baby boomers really ought to look in the mirror before getting into any generational pissing match.
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alfa164
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:01 am

Jouhou wrote:
I don't see Fox news surviving the boomer die off. For some reason boomers just seem more... gullible. I don't know if it's because we Millennials grew up in the 80s and 90s when American ultra consumerism and associated advertising were pervasive(and thus became resistant to it). But boomers just lap up obvious bs without questioning it.


I am not sure they are more gullible; they just grew up as the "me, me, me" generation, when they believe they were entitled to anything they wanted. Faux "News" feeds them what they (think they) want to hear; despite its once-infamous claim of being "fair and balanced", they make no pretense of even being factual anymore.

The excessive selfishness of one generation forces the next generation to swing the pendulum back to selflessness and concern for humanity, the environment, and for the rights of everyone... a fortunately natural reaction. The extreme wingnuts who worshipped Faux have moved on to even more extreme sites now (i.e., Alex Jones, Breitbart, and their ilk).

Faux "News" will always have some following, but it will be shrinking drastically as a more enlightened generation matures.
 
Calder
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:00 pm

I never really got into YouTube, save for a few people making videos that I enjoy. I've never subscribed to any channels, liked, or disliked anything, and prefer not to engage with the community.

My use of the website has not changed significantly over the last ~5 years or so, nor do I expect it to in the near future.
C. T.
 
WIederling
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:34 pm

CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. There are lots of channels with way worse content that are promoted by YouTube.


hic rhodos, hic salta.
give examples.

you maybe misjudge how far out (where to) your personal position is?
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CCGPV
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:52 pm

WIederling wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. There are lots of channels with way worse content that are promoted by YouTube.


hic rhodos, hic salta.
give examples.

you maybe misjudge how far out (where to) your personal position is?


I don't watch any of the conspiracy, political, or other controversial channels so I can't comment on them being demonetized. I'm talking about innocent channels being victimized by these rules while others are left to produce truly offensive content, often to children. (toy channels, the elsa/spiderman debacle, etc) I do watch lots of daily vloggers and other innocent channels like cooking channels, hiking and travel bloggers and DIY channels who've been struck or had many videos demonetized. Its widely done and known about in the community.
If you subscribe to any number of channels you will have seen them comment on the widespread demonetization of seemingly random videos. Its extremely widespread across the platform.

Its like a cooking channel talking about knives being struck or a vlog mentioning a shooting and being demonetized. Its way overbearing.

Here are some of the "heavy hitters" of YouTube talking about the irregular implementation of this policy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOa6PA8XQtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZakJFqdpRY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8n78AuN3w

Smaller channels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EHU3m9uIBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppcYoem3URo

The biggest complaint most have is the mysterious policy, lack of discussion about it and the generally poor response by leadership.
Stay curious
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:10 pm

It’s not just conservative channels.
Left wing or progressive channels such as Secular Talk, the David Pakman Show, the Young Turks and the Jimmy Dore show have all suffered from demonitization and a loss of ad revenue on YouTube.
 
Flighty
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:20 pm

I watch a lot of youtube, so I accept the point that youtube censorship (or mandated self-censorship of content providers) is potentially very problematic.

Yes, most media is privately owned. But there are still some regulations about what can appear in the media, and the effects on politics. Equal time and so forth.

Relevant sentence from Wikipedia: "The equal-time rule was created because the FCC was concerned that broadcast stations could easily manipulate the outcome of elections by presenting just one point of view, and excluding other candidates. The equal-time rule should not be confused with the now-defunct Fairness Doctrine, which dealt with presenting balanced points of view on matters of public importance."
 
CCGPV
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:30 pm

Flighty wrote:
I watch a lot of youtube, so I accept the point that youtube censorship (or mandated self-censorship of content providers) is potentially very problematic.

Yes, most media is privately owned. But there are still some regulations about what can appear in the media, and the effects on politics. Equal time and so forth.

Relevant sentence from Wikipedia: "The equal-time rule was created because the FCC was concerned that broadcast stations could easily manipulate the outcome of elections by presenting just one point of view, and excluding other candidates. The equal-time rule should not be confused with the now-defunct Fairness Doctrine, which dealt with presenting balanced points of view on matters of public importance."


I think FCC jurisdiction only applies broadcast channels like CBS, NBC, ABC on TV, FM/AM radio but not cable or internet. That's why you can say anything you want on HBO, cable and the internet but not on broadcast TV. (individual company policy notwithstanding)

I don't think any of those doctrines or restrictions were applied to those other mediums.
Stay curious
 
Flighty
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:18 pm

Yeah but Youtube is probably more important than CBS, NBC, ABC or any radio network. The concern is there, the precedent is there.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:27 am

Interesting how this thread polarized.

I'm socially liberal but economically conservative. Do you know the group I most commonly teach proper firearms usage to? Liberals.

cpd wrote:
Youtube isn't a democracy, it's a website just like this one here is. And as always, you use that site, then you abide by their terms and conditions.

Just as a "liberal" user would be told if they were on a conservative website/forum and got banned - the conservatives would say exactly the same thing.

Oh, whomever watches TV news has anxiety. TV news has been worthless for decades.

CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. T


They are allowed to be as uneven and vague as they wish, just like any website can be. If they were run by the government, then they would have to be completely transparent.

Have you ever read an economist named Bernstein? Uncertain or vague rules drive away customers. Right now alternative sites are split. Do they really want to drive away customers?

The link I provided detailed content basically blocked for two weeks. Do you think customers stopped looking for their favorite content? Do you think content providers had any other choice but to upload to alternative sites?

I don't want an echo chamber. I want diversity of thought. I have many friends whim I cannot talk politics for we are polarized. But am I going to go to a site that censors kind thoughts because they support the wrong politicians?

For example, I realized today at work I wasn't inviting young workers to networking events as most of the people going were over 35 and thus conservative. But I decided to reach out anyway. The event? Target shooting. Today, 80% of the young people said yes. To those that said yes, they'll have access to a great mentoring pool.

If no one is willing to cross the divide, no one will.

Because enough of the content I enjoy was blacklisted (video games, comedians, historical coverage). I find I watch 80% less YouTube than 18 months ago.

So yes, content providers had no other choice. What happens when a site achieves a critical mass of viewers?

Google can do what they want. But by definition 40% if viewers are conservative, 40% liberal, and 20% in between. What percentage of the market do they want?

You should also read the world is flat by Thomas Friedman. It goes into how losing a customer is a click away and how today's consumers have zero loyalty.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
seb146
Posts: 18257
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:30 am

lightsaber wrote:
Interesting how this thread polarized.

I'm socially liberal but economically conservative. Do you know the group I most commonly teach proper firearms usage to? Liberals.

cpd wrote:
Youtube isn't a democracy, it's a website just like this one here is. And as always, you use that site, then you abide by their terms and conditions.

Just as a "liberal" user would be told if they were on a conservative website/forum and got banned - the conservatives would say exactly the same thing.

Oh, whomever watches TV news has anxiety. TV news has been worthless for decades.

CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. T


They are allowed to be as uneven and vague as they wish, just like any website can be. If they were run by the government, then they would have to be completely transparent.

Have you ever read an economist named Bernstein? Uncertain or vague rules drive away customers. Right now alternative sites are split. Do they really want to drive away customers?

The link I provided detailed content basically blocked for two weeks. Do you think customers stopped looking for their favorite content? Do you think content providers had any other choice but to upload to alternative sites?

I don't want an echo chamber. I want diversity of thought. I have many friends whim I cannot talk politics for we are polarized. But am I going to go to a site that censors kind thoughts because they support the wrong politicians?

For example, I realized today at work I wasn't inviting young workers to networking events as most of the people going were over 35 and thus conservative. But I decided to reach out anyway. The event? Target shooting. Today, 80% of the young people said yes. To those that said yes, they'll have access to a great mentoring pool.

If no one is willing to cross the divide, no one will.

Because enough of the content I enjoy was blacklisted (video games, comedians, historical coverage). I find I watch 80% less YouTube than 18 months ago.

So yes, content providers had no other choice. What happens when a site achieves a critical mass of viewers?

Google can do what they want. But by definition 40% if viewers are conservative, 40% liberal, and 20% in between. What percentage of the market do they want?

You should also read the world is flat by Thomas Friedman. It goes into how losing a customer is a click away and how today's consumers have zero loyalty.

Lightsaber


The first line of your response is very telling. You assume things. Maybe "liberals" want to get into the minds of mass murderers to they can save lives. Maybe "liberals" want to know why mass murderers kill. You assume many things about "liberals" and you know what happens when one assumes. Maybe you should ask questions.

Target practice is very different than shooting for a high kill rate.

I also find it interesting that the party of "every life is sacred" is the same party that does not care when mass shootings happen. I did not want to post a second post, so this one line is not directed at anyone in particular.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Francoflier
Posts: 4538
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:32 am

Why do people here assume that Youtube is against conservative channels or is applying some sort of political agenda?

Most businesses try to stay away from political debate for good reason. It's not easy of course when a good part of your business is hosting videos of political messages while at the same time being under fire for hosting fake news and videos that incite hate and outrage based on distorted truths.

Youtube is trying to weed out the most extreme cases of political lies, ludicrous conspiracies and the hate and dividing content that stems from these non-sequitur. It just so happens that neocon and far right groups are massive producers of such content.

I would say that the equally outrageous far-left content hosted on Youtube receives the same treatment, it's just nowhere near as popular as the other side's nutjobs such as Alex Jones et al.

When people who thrive on spreading lies and contention get 'attacked', the of course do what they do best... But the truth is, as often, a lot tamer and more mitigated than what the outrage suggests:

https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/5/170782 ... nel-delete
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:41 am

lightsaber wrote:
Interesting how this thread polarized.

I'm socially liberal but economically conservative. Do you know the group I most commonly teach proper firearms usage to? Liberals.

cpd wrote:
Youtube isn't a democracy, it's a website just like this one here is. And as always, you use that site, then you abide by their terms and conditions.

Just as a "liberal" user would be told if they were on a conservative website/forum and got banned - the conservatives would say exactly the same thing.

Oh, whomever watches TV news has anxiety. TV news has been worthless for decades.

CCGPV wrote:
I think its the hypocrisy and uneven application of their vague policy people have a problem with. T


They are allowed to be as uneven and vague as they wish, just like any website can be. If they were run by the government, then they would have to be completely transparent.

Have you ever read an economist named Bernstein? Uncertain or vague rules drive away customers. Right now alternative sites are split. Do they really want to drive away customers?

The link I provided detailed content basically blocked for two weeks. Do you think customers stopped looking for their favorite content? Do you think content providers had any other choice but to upload to alternative sites?

I don't want an echo chamber. I want diversity of thought. I have many friends whim I cannot talk politics for we are polarized. But am I going to go to a site that censors kind thoughts because they support the wrong politicians?

For example, I realized today at work I wasn't inviting young workers to networking events as most of the people going were over 35 and thus conservative. But I decided to reach out anyway. The event? Target shooting. Today, 80% of the young people said yes. To those that said yes, they'll have access to a great mentoring pool.

If no one is willing to cross the divide, no one will.

Because enough of the content I enjoy was blacklisted (video games, comedians, historical coverage). I find I watch 80% less YouTube than 18 months ago.

So yes, content providers had no other choice. What happens when a site achieves a critical mass of viewers?

Google can do what they want. But by definition 40% if viewers are conservative, 40% liberal, and 20% in between. What percentage of the market do they want?

You should also read the world is flat by Thomas Friedman. It goes into how losing a customer is a click away and how today's consumers have zero loyalty.

Lightsaber


I will reiterate, YouTube's recent crackdown is related to things they can and will be sued for. Unfortunately a good portion of the right has latched onto some of this, perhaps unwittingly.

On twitter, they've finally cracked down on Russian troll accounts, unfortunately some of these had gained popularity with some of the American right, and they are crying out censorship when it's not about political leanings. It's similar. Russian far left accounts are being taken down too, but don't have the same following because they don't have certain major political figures retweeting them.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6864
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:03 am

lightsaber wrote:
Interesting how this thread polarized.


The modern world of media is more and more turning into unconnected little ( or big as may be ) echo chambers.
Even (or especially) on the same site ( like youTube, twitter, facebook, ...) little rabid tribes galore.

All are about breathing and thinking in unison and never about reasoning with people of divergent opinions.
( actually a "feature" I first noticed on a Parkinson's Disease mailing list in the early 90ties. Some could not cope
with differing viewpoints and their reaction of choice was ignoring or banning. I had never encountered that
before : closing the door on dissenting opinion. Only in religious context. But you don't argue than anyway.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
slider
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:59 pm

apodino wrote:
Its not just what the original poster posted. Dennis Prager, who is a conservative talk radio host, runs a website called Prager University, which has a lot of YouTube videos posted on a wide ranging variety of topics. Though some of it is material that people might not agree with, nothing is really different than one would hear on a broadcast network. However, YouTube has put an age restriction on the content and put it behind a log in, and people are upset about this and Prager is even suing YouTube over this.

I get political viewpoints, but if you tend to favor one side over another, it is not going to benefit you long term. But YouTube is doing exactly that.


Dennis Prager is brilliant and hardly what you would call an "alt-right lunatic"--the guy has Constitutional videos and lessons that are really outstanding. But he's been squelched. I heard him talking to Crowder about his actions against YouTube and I think exposing their duplicity is a good thing. Especially when you consider there are overt, open, and blatant YouTubers out there who openly call for sharia law, the rape of our women, the overthrow of our government, etc, etc, etc.... Nary a thing is said, done or action taken to adjudicate that sort of hateful speech (if not unlawful speech, since some of these crazies are actually making terroristic threats, notably the AFTIFA bastards), but a guy actually teaching the Constitution is gagged.

Twitter's been doing it, Facebook's been doing it, and the college campus snowflake SJWs are all actively squelching free speech.

As Aristotle said, it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

Fast forward to today, and some circles need safe spaces for their echo chamber lest they be offended. We may be doomed.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1057
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:07 pm

The constitution gives the right to free speech, it doesn't say private corporations can't do what they want with it.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:12 pm

Certain channels that funnel hate should be blacklisted.
Google may have overstepped with their new hires lately, but when you get on the Military Action Channel, and the first ad that gets played is Dana Loesch's psychopathic rant about media and liberal, you start to realize their should be limits to free speech. Especially as Dana Loesch sound more like a terrorist than a representative of a tv show.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
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Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:13 pm

Jouhou wrote:
The constitution gives the right to free speech, it doesn't say private corporations can't do what they want with it.


I don't know why people keep saying this. We get it. Everyone knows this.

People can still be upset at the way a company operates when money is involved. Youtube has acknowledged it has failed in communicating their policy. There is a legitimate argument here.

Nobody is arguing this is an infringement of their 1st amendment. Channel creators and advertisers are annoyed at the way YouTube has done it, and rightfully so.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:14 pm

casinterest wrote:
Certain channels that funnel hate should be blacklisted.
Google may have overstepped with their new hires lately, but when you get on the Military Action Channel, and the first ad that gets played is Dana Loesch's psychopathic rant about media and liberal, you start to realize their should be limits to free speech. Especially as Dana Loesch sound more like a terrorist than a representative of a tv show.


There should never be limits to free speech.
Stay curious
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1057
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:17 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
The constitution gives the right to free speech, it doesn't say private corporations can't do what they want with it.


I don't know why people keep saying this. We get it. Everyone knows this.

People can still be upset at the way a company operates when money is involved. Youtube has acknowledged it has failed in communicating their policy. There is a legitimate argument here.

Nobody is arguing this is an infringement of their 1st amendment. Channel creators and advertisers are annoyed at the way YouTube has done it, and rightfully so.


Because people keep bringing up constitutional rights despite what you just said.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:19 pm

CCGPV wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Certain channels that funnel hate should be blacklisted.
Google may have overstepped with their new hires lately, but when you get on the Military Action Channel, and the first ad that gets played is Dana Loesch's psychopathic rant about media and liberal, you start to realize their should be limits to free speech. Especially as Dana Loesch sound more like a terrorist than a representative of a tv show.


There should never be limits to free speech.


Yes there should be and there are.

Unless you are a fan of child pornography and death threats.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... exceptions
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Certain channels that funnel hate should be blacklisted.
Google may have overstepped with their new hires lately, but when you get on the Military Action Channel, and the first ad that gets played is Dana Loesch's psychopathic rant about media and liberal, you start to realize their should be limits to free speech. Especially as Dana Loesch sound more like a terrorist than a representative of a tv show.


There should never be limits to free speech.


Yes there should be and there are.

Unless you are a fan of child pornography and death threats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... exceptions


I happen to disagree with many of those exceptions.

Citizens should have the right to sue individuals who make false claims etc. There should be no government limits.
Stay curious
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: YouTube blacklisting conservative channels

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:39 pm

CCGPV wrote:
casinterest wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

There should never be limits to free speech.


Yes there should be and there are.

Unless you are a fan of child pornography and death threats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... exceptions


I happen to disagree with many of those exceptions.

Citizens should have the right to sue individuals who make false claims etc. There should be no government limits.


So you are in the anarchy party?
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.

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