MSPbrandon
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China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:10 am

Any hope of democracy in China might get a crushing blow..

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/xi-jinp ... rowth.html

The National People's Congress begins meeting tomorrow. They are expected to aprrove this Xi Jinping's proposal as well as his other "Grand Plans". They want to "rework bureaucracy" that would put the Chinese Communist Party in firm control.

Ah well, I can't say im suprised.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:18 am

It's not like the Communist party wasn't in full control of the country pretty much indefinitely already.
The difference is that Xinping is turning itself into a Chinese Vladimir Putin.

And of course, the first person to celebrate the fact that China is taking a turn towards an increasingly autocratic regime and to congratulate Xinping on his power grab was none other than:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZCJnf-qMw

Who would have guessed?
:sigh:

And of course he started musing, half-jokingly, about emulating such a system in the US.

Trump really does have a massive h#rd-on for autocratic leaders... Thank Krishna he doesn't have any leadership ability himself whatsoever.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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zkojq
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:59 am

Not surprising. Thankfully Xi is less of a rogue cannon than Putin.
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NIKV69
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:05 am

Two words Michael Bloomberg
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
Redd
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:18 am

As long as a democracy is fully functional, clearly not the case in China, what is the problem?. Canada has no term limits and the longest serving PM had served 21 years. If a leader is doing a good job and people want to re-elect him/her there should be no problem. Term limits aren't a good thing imho, from the get-go everything has to be planned short term for each administration.
 
c933103
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:21 am

Redd wrote:
As long as a democracy is fully functional, clearly not the case in China, what is the problem?. Canada has no term limits and the longest serving PM had served 21 years. If a leader is doing a good job and people want to re-elect him/her there should be no problem. Term limits aren't a good thing imho, from the get-go everything has to be planned short term for each administration.

You have to define the meaning of "fully functional" very carefully and clearly, as everyone can entitle their own system as such
 
Redd
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:27 am

c933103 wrote:
Redd wrote:
As long as a democracy is fully functional, clearly not the case in China, what is the problem?. Canada has no term limits and the longest serving PM had served 21 years. If a leader is doing a good job and people want to re-elect him/her there should be no problem. Term limits aren't a good thing imho, from the get-go everything has to be planned short term for each administration.

You have to define the meaning of "fully functional" very carefully and clearly, as everyone can entitle their own system as such


I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:45 am

Redd wrote:
If a leader is doing a good job and people want to re-elect him/her there should be no problem. Term limits aren't a good thing imho, from the get-go everything has to be planned short term for each administration.


Term limits allow for a churning of the system and prevents hubris from setting in. And that is inevitable without having fixed limits. Other people from within the party must get a chance at the top job otherwise not just the country, but the party also starts stagnating which cannot be good for democracy.

zkojq wrote:
Not surprising. Thankfully Xi is less of a rogue cannon than Putin.


Well dont count your chickens yet. Xi has not shown his hand YET. But when he does, I have a feeling its going to be a lot more dramatic than with Putin.
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Redd
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:44 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Redd wrote:
If a leader is doing a good job and people want to re-elect him/her there should be no problem. Term limits aren't a good thing imho, from the get-go everything has to be planned short term for each administration.


Term limits allow for a churning of the system and prevents hubris from setting in. And that is inevitable without having fixed limits. Other people from within the party must get a chance at the top job otherwise not just the country, but the party also starts stagnating which cannot be good for democracy.

zkojq wrote:
Not surprising. Thankfully Xi is less of a rogue cannon than Putin.


Well dont count your chickens yet. Xi has not shown his hand YET. But when he does, I have a feeling its going to be a lot more dramatic than with Putin.


You will be right in some cases, but not in all. The Mayor of the city I grew up in served uninterrupted 1978 - 2014. She did a great job and didn't need any shaking up.

Perhaps politics is full of scumbags because its a short term in power and they'll be out before their dealing come to light. Then usually pardoned by their successor. Perhaps....
 
Kiwirob
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:52 am

Redd wrote:

I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.


With the amount of lobbying and money involved in the US system how can it also be considered free and fair??
 
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Dutchy
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:31 am

It is indeed an interesting development. Politics is politics even in an autocratic state like China. You see the Chinese government tightening the grip on the country. A lot of words are forbidden to be used on the internet in connection with this. So it is interesting to see what the reaction will be of the Chinese people and if they are going to accept it. At the moment it looks like they do.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ltbewr
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:48 am

You have leaders for life in those countries with royalty as heads of state - including the UK. Germany's Merkel has served for 12 years, looks like from Sunday's elections will serve several more years despite serious issues with her policies (especially as to immigrants from Islamic world). In the USA, FDR served into a 4th 4 year term, dying only a few months into that last term. It led to a Constitutional Amendment limiting a President to 2 - 4 year terms Most states in the USA have effective term limits with max age limits for Judges (usually 70-75). Elections are a form of term limits too, but far too often people will keep someone in power as lazy or to keep the status que that benefits some special interest.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:16 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Two words Michael Bloomberg

Yes...a mayor who can be removed from power by various means can be compared to the leader of a country whose party dominates all structures of government and effective acts as a rubber-stamp for his every whim.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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scbriml
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:34 pm

ltbewr wrote:
You have leaders for life in those countries with royalty as heads of state - including the UK.


The Queen is a figurehead monarch with no real political power. Technically she retains some powers, but (as she fully understands) her exercising those limited powers would result in a constitutional crisis and the likely dissolving of the monarchy. To call her a "leader for life" is a big stretch, IMHO.
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N14AZ
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:06 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
Any hope of democracy in China might get a crushing blow..

We (western countries) have to stop believing that democracy is the only system that will immediately work in other countries, like a panacea. It is not.
 
Route66
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Redd wrote:

I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.


With the amount of lobbying and money involved in the US system how can it also be considered free and fair??


What does the US have to do with this?
 
Route66
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:43 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Route66 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

With the amount of lobbying and money involved in the US system how can it also be considered free and fair??


What does the US have to do with this?


I was pointing out that someone from the US is not able to talk about free and fair elections, when the process in the US is far from free and fair.


Really. So ones geographical location precludes one from saying anything about certain subjects on anet?

Does that also apply to Europeans here about US issues, or this proclamation for US posters only? Is Redd even American?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:45 pm

Route66 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Redd wrote:

I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.


With the amount of lobbying and money involved in the US system how can it also be considered free and fair??


What does the US have to do with this?


I was pointing out that someone from the US is not able to talk about free and fair elections, when the process in the US is far from free and fair.
 
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Aesma
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:28 pm

Redd wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Redd wrote:
As long as a democracy is fully functional, clearly not the case in China, what is the problem?. Canada has no term limits and the longest serving PM had served 21 years. If a leader is doing a good job and people want to re-elect him/her there should be no problem. Term limits aren't a good thing imho, from the get-go everything has to be planned short term for each administration.

You have to define the meaning of "fully functional" very carefully and clearly, as everyone can entitle their own system as such


I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.


Democracy is more than elections.

You need human rights.

You need freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.

You need an independent judiciary.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
NIKV69
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:00 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Yes...a mayor who can be removed from power by various means


Could of fooled me!
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
Redd
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
Redd wrote:
c933103 wrote:
You have to define the meaning of "fully functional" very carefully and clearly, as everyone can entitle their own system as such


I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.


Democracy is more than elections.

You need human rights.

You need freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.

You need an independent judiciary.



Ideally. But none of those things are actually democracy, they are symptoms of a free and fair democratic election process. Democracy is just a government elected by the people, rien de plus.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:07 am

NIKV69 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Yes...a mayor who can be removed from power by various means


Could of fooled me!

You know Bloomberg's been out of office for 5 years now, I assume?

Route66 wrote:
Really. So ones geographical location precludes one from saying anything about certain subjects on anet?

Basketball players need to shut up and dribble, singers need to shut up and sing, football players need to shut up and stand, people who don't know what the AR in AR-15 stand for need to stay out of the gun debate...lots of rules to keep in mind :hissyfit:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
c933103
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:51 am

Redd wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Redd wrote:

I mean making sure that elections stay free and fair.


Democracy is more than elections.

You need human rights.

You need freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.

You need an independent judiciary.



Ideally. But none of those things are actually democracy, they are symptoms of a free and fair democratic election process. Democracy is just a government elected by the people, rien de plus.

Then, what is free and fair election process? Everyone in China, Russia, Iran, North Korea gets to cast their votes too.
 
NIKV69
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:15 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
You know Bloomberg's been out of office for 5 years now, I assume?


Almost ran for president too IIRC
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
You know Bloomberg's been out of office for 5 years now, I assume?


Almost ran for president too IIRC

And this is relevant to Xi Jinping...how?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:14 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
And this is relevant to Xi Jinping...how?

It's The Matrix...deflect and redirect. But somehow we're supposed to believe he's not a Trump supporter...
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Redd
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Re: China might eliminate Presidential Term Limits

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:52 pm

c933103 wrote:
Redd wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Democracy is more than elections.

You need human rights.

You need freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.

You need an independent judiciary.



Ideally. But none of those things are actually democracy, they are symptoms of a free and fair democratic election process. Democracy is just a government elected by the people, rien de plus.

Then, what is free and fair election process? Everyone in China, Russia, Iran, North Korea gets to cast their votes too.


Free and fair is pretty self explanatory. China, Iran, North Korea and arguably Russia don't have free and fair elections.

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