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Ken777
Posts: 9576
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:25 pm

Trump's ego was in full stride. Did you notice that he had to walk a full step ahead of Kim? More of the King Donald.

Trump's ignorance was also in full stride. He gave away joint exercises with the South and got NOTHING in return. Blind siding his own military and showing his ignorance on the importance of training for the military.

Now we have to wait to find out what ever else he gave away. So much for the master of negotiations.
 
mham001
Posts: 4955
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:34 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
jordanh wrote:
It appears he went to Singapore to say, "You see all the agreements I have backed out of, but we won't back out of this old agreement... not right away, anyway."



Let's summarize what backing out of this agreement actually means and what the agreement means.

North Korea got: SK/US exercise gone, which the US didn't want to do before.
Back out: exercise resumes, no worse off as before for Korea and spending the money again.

US got: silch.....
Denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and bringing peace to it has been NK official policy for a long, long time.

Back out: North Korea can't back out, because they didnt give anything.

Best regards
Thomas


Destroying their missile engine test site is not insignificant. Hopefully they will cease some of their internet shenanigans as well. Even the Germans would benefit from that.

But there is cream for your soreness this morning.
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:42 pm

I’ll say one thing for all the Trump critics; you know how to move the goal posts and to borrow a phrase, don’t have the education to admit you were wrong.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5816
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:45 pm

Ken777 wrote:
He gave away joint exercises with the South and got NOTHING in return. Blind siding his own military and showing his ignorance on the importance of training for the military.


I REALLY do hate to be Trump's advocate, but weren't lefties on this forum going apeshit just a few weeks ago when there was a joint US/Korean exercise... just about the same time Un was playing with his rockets, calling it "reckless" and what not?
 
mham001
Posts: 4955
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:53 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
I REALLY do hate to be Trump's advocate, but weren't lefties on this forum going apeshit just a few weeks ago when there was a joint US/Korean exercise... just about the same time Un was playing with his rockets, calling it "reckless" and what not?


I think we are already seeing a lot more moderates waking up to the inane contradictions coming from those who hate the man and are willing to throw their supposed ideals under the bus in pursuit of that hatred.. People just like you. The east coast US media is going ape-shit right now trying to say nothing happened. People notice.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:54 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
I’ll say one thing for all the Trump critics; you know how to move the goal posts and to borrow a phrase, don’t have the education to admit you were wrong.


It's quite telling that Trump supporters are only managing to get by through projection.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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seahawk
Posts: 6924
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:58 pm

I still do not get how this is better than the deal with Iran. Well apart from Iran not asking the USA to stop military exercises in the region and with an international control mechanism for the deal in place. If you say that Iran is meddling in the affairs of other countries in the region and NK is not, you are right, but that ignores the fact that the Arab world is divided between Shias and Sunnis and the Shia religious centre is Iran, while the Sunni is in Saudi Arabia, so whenever there is a conflict between Shias and Sunnis Iran is always involved.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5816
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:03 pm

mham001 wrote:
those who hate the man and are willing to throw their supposed ideals under the bus in pursuit of that hatred.. People just like you.


I'm just pointing out certain inconsistency in argumentation. I don't see any reason to change my opinion about Trump as such.
 
c933103
Posts: 2360
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:13 pm

Seems like what I feared have come to the reality?
c933103 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I would personally give Trump the credit of acting responsibility and not to persuade for the talk when North Korea have already openly stated that they are not going to follow a denuclearization process that would be acceptable to the United States instead of entering the talk and accept any half assed agreement that might come out of it that could give them more breathing room


So, instead of actually talking and working out differences and getting a deal that both sides agree to, one leader decided nothing was acceptable and righties are praising him and apologizing for it. How the hell does this make him the greatest peace maker ever if he can not make peace? Why should he get a peace prize when he refuses to talk except to sling insults at people who disagree with him?

I mean, I don't trust Trump would have the ability to talk North Korea into accepting something that they have openly stated they won't accept, at least he know his place instead of drowning the entire world into a talk for some deal that would end up legitimating the nuclear capability of North Korea. That's what I once thought Trump might take the step. Perhaps fortunately, he is so ignorant that he unknowingly angered North Korea for his lack of understanding on the issue and refused further direct contact for it, otherwise Trump might actually meet them and announce a "victory" that would allow them to keep their nuclear weapons as long as United States still possess any nuclear weapon
 
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787Driver
Posts: 327
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:25 pm

Even if you are a hardcore Trump critic, you gotta admit that it's worth trying a new approach now that the old approach didn't change anything. Similar to the Obama era Cuba politics. And we can be certain that if Kim Jong Un doesn't show any improvements shortly and doesn't follow what was negotiated, Trump will be very harsh against NK again. Also remember that the sanctions will remain till there are concrete improvements.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1692
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:44 pm

Mir wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:
I’ll say one thing for all the Trump critics; you know how to move the goal posts and to borrow a phrase, don’t have the education to admit you were wrong.


It's quite telling that Trump supporters are only managing to get by through projection.


And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.

Won’t happen today or tomorrow but this bit of Trumpian diplomacy WITHOUT giving up billions of cash like Obozo gave to the wretched Mullahs has shown all these abhorrent leftists in the media, in western society that you lost and Trump is continuing to win big.

What a glorious day! MAGA folks!

I have been sitting on my couch gloating over the lamestream media be so depressed this morning s f trying to grasp at straws on how these last two days were horrible and Trump “gave away the store”

Ha ha. No that was your racist messiah boy obama and Michelle and Eric holder.

Obozo—-worst president ever, not fit for dog catcher and a pea brain compared to trump!

MAGA friends, MAGA!!!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:47 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
I’ll say one thing for all the Trump critics; you know how to move the goal posts and to borrow a phrase, don’t have the education to admit you were wrong.


There were never any goal posts, so we can't be moving them.

Trump got out of a treaty that actually had goal posts, that Iran was meeting (and the US wasn't, as sanctions weren't being lifted), then signs an empty piece of paper with a country that has nuclear weapons, unlike Iran.

Explain to me how you can reconcile these two events.

At the end of Trump's first term, NK will still have nukes, and it's very likely Iran will have them too, or the US will be in a war with Iran, maybe NK too.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
slider
Posts: 7008
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:53 pm

It's a good piece in AT today.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... prise.html

The critics just can't come to grips with the fact that, yeah, the dude has gotten more right in the foreign policy sphere than he has wrong. As personally loathsome as he may be, the dude is doing what he said he'd do. He's gained more on the issue of North Korea than any POTUS since the Korean War. That's admirable as hell. Whether that is sustainable, who knows. But there's movement AND direction, which had been lacking.
 
2122M
Posts: 481
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:54 pm

texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.
 
windy95
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:57 pm

Mir wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
I will call this summit and the Trump diplomacy a great triumph as soon as international observers certify the DPRK has dismantled and shipped out or destroyed 98% of its nuclear infrastructure, and we haven't given up an ounce of support for our regional allies.


Too late. We already threw South Korea under the bus by deciding to suspend joint exercises. But at least we got something from North Korea in exchange, so...oh who the hell am I kidding, we just gave that away too.


How is suspending joint exercises tossing them under the Bus? We will still be doing joint training and will not be drawing down troops.
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam
 
seb146
Posts: 17298
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:58 pm

Freakysh wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So tRump is telling Japan and South Korea and Philippines what to do? Since when is tRump emperor of them?


Do not question the judgement of our supreme leader. You shame your entire family in doing so.


But if Obama was doing this you wouldn't be able to keep your hand out of your panties


Doing what? Not showing support for South Korea and Japan by holding joint exercises? Signing a paper that, at some point in the future, something might happen in DPRK maybe? This is hardly anything to crow about. It is basically like a homeowner looking out the window saying "the lawn is a foot high and I have a mower, so I am pretty much done with house work."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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787Driver
Posts: 327
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:00 pm

2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


2122M, in Asia, showing respect and being shown respect is very important. Maybe hosting this meeting is exactly what it took. Give it a chance and if it didn't work, well then we don't have to think "what if" anymore.

And it's not like America has never violated human rights either, now, is it?
 
seb146
Posts: 17298
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:00 pm

In addition to everything else, the orange emperer tells We The People that he WILL lie to us AGAIN and WILL gaslight us AGAIN

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... im-n882161
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
windy95
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:00 pm

2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


How is military readiness being inhibited? I thought the left would be happy with the de-escalation of rhetoric and massive military exercises?
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam
 
bennett123
Posts: 8108
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Trxdravid

My recollection is that Obama released Iranian money which had been frozen.

It was not US money.
 
seb146
Posts: 17298
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:08 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


2122M, in Asia, showing respect and being shown respect is very important. Maybe hosting this meeting is exactly what it took. Give it a chance and if it didn't work, well then we don't have to think "what if" anymore.

And it's not like America has never violated human rights either, now, is it?


So, your opinion on human rights is "well, since everyone else is doing it, why should we care if we do?" And we all know this vague "agreement" will not work. Some babble and pretty words and righties demand he be given a medal. There is so much non language in this paper that anything could be considered a violation. How is that winning?

Besides, DPRK has already demolished their main testing site

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/ ... -explosion

And it was the two leaders of the Koreas who signed documents for a "nuclear free Korean peninsula."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
windy95
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:11 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Trump's ego was in full stride. Did you notice that he had to walk a full step ahead of Kim? More of the King Donald.

Trump's ignorance was also in full stride. He gave away joint exercises with the South and got NOTHING in return. Blind siding his own military and showing his ignorance on the importance of training for the military.

Now we have to wait to find out what ever else he gave away. So much for the master of negotiations.


Part of negotiations sometimes is giving up something for nothing. And no his own military was not blind sided in this deal. And to your third point training will still go on as usual as will joint training with our allies on Japan and North Korea. One positive will be giving our 7th fleet a chance to breath and train. They have been over deployed and over extended and had three major accidents in year due to lack of training and qualifications.
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:18 pm

windy95 wrote:
2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


How is military readiness being inhibited? I thought the left would be happy with the de-escalation of rhetoric and massive military exercises?


You're right, cancelling joint drills with South Korea will increase our readiness. How silly of me.
 
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787Driver
Posts: 327
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:20 pm

seb146 wrote:
So, your opinion on human rights is "well, since everyone else is doing it, why should we care if we do?" And we all know this vague "agreement" will not work. Some babble and pretty words and righties demand he be given a medal. There is so much non language in this paper that anything could be considered a violation. How is that winning?


Lol what the hell are you on to?
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:20 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


2122M, in Asia, showing respect and being shown respect is very important. Maybe hosting this meeting is exactly what it took. Give it a chance and if it didn't work, well then we don't have to think "what if" anymore.

And it's not like America has never violated human rights either, now, is it?


And I wouldn't want the US rewarded for it's human rights violations either.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8108
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:24 pm

I will applaud when I find out what has been agreed.

I understand that Congress also needs to agree.
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:25 pm

windy95 wrote:
Part of negotiations sometimes is giving up something for nothing.
Huh???

windy95 wrote:
And no his own military was not blind sided in this deal.


They are obviously blindsided.
Lt. Col. Jennifer Lovett, a United States military spokeswoman in South Korea, said in an email that the American command there “has received no updated guidance on execution or cessation of training exercises — to include this fall’s schedule Ulchi Freedom Guardian.”

“We will continue with our current military posture until we receive updated guidance from the Department of Defense,” she added.


Quoting Nicholas Kristof:
The most remarkable aspect of the joint statement was what it didn’t contain. There was nothing about North Korea freezing plutonium and uranium programs, nothing about destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles, nothing about allowing inspectors to return to nuclear sites, nothing about North Korea making a full declaration of its nuclear program, nothing about a timetable, nothing about verification, not even any clear pledge to permanently halt testing of nuclear weapons or long-range missiles.
 
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787Driver
Posts: 327
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:31 pm

2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:

Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


2122M, in Asia, showing respect and being shown respect is very important. Maybe hosting this meeting is exactly what it took. Give it a chance and if it didn't work, well then we don't have to think "what if" anymore.

And it's not like America has never violated human rights either, now, is it?


And I wouldn't want the US rewarded for it's human rights violations either.


Last time I checked, there were no UN sanctions imposed on the US. Is that would you mean by not wanting the US to be rewarded?
 
Deecheck
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:42 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:35 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:

2122M, in Asia, showing respect and being shown respect is very important. Maybe hosting this meeting is exactly what it took. Give it a chance and if it didn't work, well then we don't have to think "what if" anymore.

And it's not like America has never violated human rights either, now, is it?


And I wouldn't want the US rewarded for it's human rights violations either.


Last time I checked, there were no UN sanctions imposed on the US. Is that would you mean by not wanting the US to be rewarded?


It's literally biting the hand that feeds you. When you pay the bills you get the last word.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:41 pm

mham001 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
jordanh wrote:
It appears he went to Singapore to say, "You see all the agreements I have backed out of, but we won't back out of this old agreement... not right away, anyway."



Let's summarize what backing out of this agreement actually means and what the agreement means.

North Korea got: SK/US exercise gone, which the US didn't want to do before.
Back out: exercise resumes, no worse off as before for Korea and spending the money again.

US got: silch.....
Denuclearization of the Korean peninsula and bringing peace to it has been NK official policy for a long, long time.

Back out: North Korea can't back out, because they didnt give anything.

Best regards
Thomas


Destroying their missile engine test site is not insignificant. Hopefully they will cease some of their internet shenanigans as well. Even the Germans would benefit from that.

But there is cream for your soreness this morning.


:checkmark:

Taking a wait and see approach is likely the optimal strategy here. Though it is amusing watching our resident US critics, who frequently bemoan US "militarism" reduced to complaining that a US President is quite literally ending a military "war games" preparatory scenario.

It's reasons such as these why they don't deserve to be taken seriously. Mindless partisan hackery has consequences, including the tendency to make one look foolish.
 
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787Driver
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:46 pm

Deecheck wrote:
787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:

And I wouldn't want the US rewarded for it's human rights violations either.


Last time I checked, there were no UN sanctions imposed on the US. Is that would you mean by not wanting the US to be rewarded?


It's literally biting the hand that feeds you. When you pay the bills you get the last word.


I know.
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:53 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:

2122M, in Asia, showing respect and being shown respect is very important. Maybe hosting this meeting is exactly what it took. Give it a chance and if it didn't work, well then we don't have to think "what if" anymore.

And it's not like America has never violated human rights either, now, is it?


And I wouldn't want the US rewarded for it's human rights violations either.


Last time I checked, there were no UN sanctions imposed on the US. Is that would you mean by not wanting the US to be rewarded?


Do you think current US civil rights violations are equal to those of the North Korean regime? Maybe if the UN was around when the west was won or before the slavery ended they would have done something about it. I am 100% sure the US is guilty of things we should not be proud of, but until you point out our forced labor camps I'm comfortable saying that North Korea is worse and far more deserving of UN sanctions.
 
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787Driver
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:55 pm

2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:

And I wouldn't want the US rewarded for it's human rights violations either.


Last time I checked, there were no UN sanctions imposed on the US. Is that would you mean by not wanting the US to be rewarded?


Do you think current US civil rights violations are equal to those of the North Korean regime? Maybe if the UN was around when the west was won or before the slavery ended they would have done something about it. I am 100% sure the US is guilty of things we should not be proud of, but until you point out our forced labor camps I'm comfortable saying that North Korea is worse and far more deserving of UN sanctions.


No I don't, but that doesn't change the fact that the US also violated basic human rights previously.
 
2122M
Posts: 481
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:01 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:

Last time I checked, there were no UN sanctions imposed on the US. Is that would you mean by not wanting the US to be rewarded?


Do you think current US civil rights violations are equal to those of the North Korean regime? Maybe if the UN was around when the west was won or before the slavery ended they would have done something about it. I am 100% sure the US is guilty of things we should not be proud of, but until you point out our forced labor camps I'm comfortable saying that North Korea is worse and far more deserving of UN sanctions.


No I don't, but that doesn't change the fact that the US also violated basic human rights previously.


Sure. What's the point you're are trying to make that pertains to this summit though?
 
windy95
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Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:28 pm

salttee wrote:
windy95 wrote:
Part of negotiations sometimes is giving up something for nothing.
Huh???

windy95 wrote:
And no his own military was not blind sided in this deal.


They are obviously blindsided.
Lt. Col. Jennifer Lovett, a United States military spokeswoman in South Korea, said in an email that the American command there “has received no updated guidance on execution or cessation of training exercises — to include this fall’s schedule Ulchi Freedom Guardian.”

“We will continue with our current military posture until we receive updated guidance from the Department of Defense,” she added.


You are quoting some Lt Col in Korea as your proof of being blind sided? LOL

When you say the military was blind sided that would mean SECDEF and the CJCS knew nothing about it. Not the troops in the field.

And yes sometimes in negotiating you give up something as an Olive branch. Suspending the exercises costs us nothing and can be restarted at any time.
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam
 
texdravid
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:36 pm

2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


Ha ha, yeah right dude. You liberals haven’t forgotten how you called Reagan a warmonger amd senile, GHWB a failed president and worse, GWB as Bushitler and on and on to Trumpanzee??

Please you leftists have used every single invective and nastiness imaginable to demean conservatives.

Who do you think I am? Mitt Romney or McCain who let Obozo off the hook in debates? Took Obama and Pelosi and Soris tee off without rebuttal??

Sorry to burst your bubble I will respond to democrat outrage with my own.
Tit for tat.

Trump gave away nothing. You liberals know that John Kerry and Obozo are he ones who gave cash to he mullahs and gave away the store so quit projecting Obama’s failed and excreable presidency onto Trump. Your guy failed and was a feckless tyrant and affirmative action hire and you guys know it.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
windy95
Posts: 2720
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:36 pm

texdravid wrote:
2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


Ha ha, yeah right dude. You liberals haven’t forgotten how you called Reagan a warmonger amd senile, GHWB a failed president and worse, GWB as Bushitler and on and on to Trumpanzee??

Please you leftists have used every single invective and nastiness imaginable to demean conservatives.

Who do you think I am? Mitt Romney or McCain who let Obozo off the hook in debates? Took Obama and Pelosi and Soris tee off without rebuttal??

Sorry to burst your bubble I will respond to democrat outrage with my own.
Tit for tat.

Trump gave away nothing. You liberals know that John Kerry and Obozo are he ones who gave cash to he mullahs and gave away the store so quit projecting Obama’s failed and excreable presidency onto Trump. Your guy failed and was a feckless tyrant and affirmative action hire and you guys know it.


Exactly.

And "suspending" war games is not giving something away for free. Its a goodwill gesture that can be restarted or ratcheted even higher in the future if needed.
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam
 
c933103
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:44 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I will applaud when I find out what has been agreed.

I understand that Congress also needs to agree.

I am not sure what's there that need the US Congress to agree on. Military exercises are not decided by congress and the document doesn't seems to involve anything about sanctions either
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:45 pm

texdravid wrote:
2122M wrote:
texdravid wrote:
And it’s quite telling that leftist brigade on this site is so butthurt this morning because Trump did the impossible and conducted himself with class and grace and set the framework for de-nuclearization.


Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


Ha ha, yeah right dude. You liberals haven’t forgotten how you called Reagan a warmonger amd senile, GHWB a failed president and worse, GWB as Bushitler and on and on to Trumpanzee??

Please you leftists have used every single invective and nastiness imaginable to demean conservatives.

Who do you think I am? Mitt Romney or McCain who let Obozo off the hook in debates? Took Obama and Pelosi and Soris tee off without rebuttal??

Sorry to burst your bubble I will respond to democrat outrage with my own.
Tit for tat.

Trump gave away nothing. You liberals know that John Kerry and Obozo are he ones who gave cash to he mullahs and gave away the store so quit projecting Obama’s failed and excreable presidency onto Trump. Your guy failed and was a feckless tyrant and affirmative action hire and you guys know it.


Wow, I nailed it! Lots of name calling and no substance! What do I win?!
 
c933103
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:50 pm

slider wrote:
It's a good piece in AT today.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... prise.html

The critics just can't come to grips with the fact that, yeah, the dude has gotten more right in the foreign policy sphere than he has wrong. As personally loathsome as he may be, the dude is doing what he said he'd do. He's gained more on the issue of North Korea than any POTUS since the Korean War. That's admirable as hell. Whether that is sustainable, who knows. But there's movement AND direction, which had been lacking.


See my reply that I typed in the thread weeks ago. The reply was made when the summit was said to be canceled, but what I feared in the reply have now come to reality as the summit resumed:
c933103 wrote:
I mean, I don't trust Trump would have the ability to talk North Korea into accepting something that they have openly stated they won't accept, at least he know his place instead of drowning the entire world into a talk for some deal that would end up legitimating the nuclear capability of North Korea. That's what I once thought Trump might take the step. Perhaps fortunately, he is so ignorant that he unknowingly angered North Korea for his lack of understanding on the issue and refused further direct contact for it, otherwise Trump might actually meet them and announce a "victory" that would allow them to keep their nuclear weapons as long as United States still possess any nuclear weapon
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:50 pm

windy95 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
2122M wrote:

Did you see that home movie he had made to show to Kim? Is that your definition of class and grace?

But yes, big congrats to Trump for legitimizing North Korea's path to the world stage, then inhibiting military readiness in the Asia-Pacific region in exchange for nothing whatsoever.

I look forward to your response, but please be sure to respond like you always do. Lots of hate and nicknames but no facts of substantive debate.


Ha ha, yeah right dude. You liberals haven’t forgotten how you called Reagan a warmonger amd senile, GHWB a failed president and worse, GWB as Bushitler and on and on to Trumpanzee??

Please you leftists have used every single invective and nastiness imaginable to demean conservatives.

Who do you think I am? Mitt Romney or McCain who let Obozo off the hook in debates? Took Obama and Pelosi and Soris tee off without rebuttal??

Sorry to burst your bubble I will respond to democrat outrage with my own.
Tit for tat.

Trump gave away nothing. You liberals know that John Kerry and Obozo are he ones who gave cash to he mullahs and gave away the store so quit projecting Obama’s failed and excreable presidency onto Trump. Your guy failed and was a feckless tyrant and affirmative action hire and you guys know it.


Exactly.

And "suspending" war games is not giving something away for free. Its a goodwill gesture that can be restarted or ratcheted even higher in the future if needed.


Look at it this way. Only one concrete step was taken at the summit, and that was the US canceling the military drills. Its what Kim wanted, its what Kim got.

What did the US get out the summit? The same vague and non-committal language NK has given negotiators in the past.

Maybe this turns into a lasting and real peace process. Everyone on earth hopes it does. But if you are celebrating any kind of victory now, you're just not paying attention.
 
User avatar
787Driver
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:51 pm

2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:

Do you think current US civil rights violations are equal to those of the North Korean regime? Maybe if the UN was around when the west was won or before the slavery ended they would have done something about it. I am 100% sure the US is guilty of things we should not be proud of, but until you point out our forced labor camps I'm comfortable saying that North Korea is worse and far more deserving of UN sanctions.


No I don't, but that doesn't change the fact that the US also violated basic human rights previously.


Sure. What's the point you're are trying to make that pertains to this summit though?


My point was that you can't just dismiss the idea of meeting Kim Jong Un and try to make a positive change that way, because he's violated many UN resolutions, human rights, etc.

As I said, maybe this meeting is exactly what is needed to change things.
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:02 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:

No I don't, but that doesn't change the fact that the US also violated basic human rights previously.


Sure. What's the point you're are trying to make that pertains to this summit though?


My point was that you can't just dismiss the idea of meeting Kim Jong Un and try to make a positive change that way, because he's violated many UN resolutions, human rights, etc.

As I said, maybe this meeting is exactly what is needed to change things.


I get that, I really do. But here's the issue with taking this meeting with no pre-conditions. Say it does work out, and NK never uses their nukes before they dismantle them (a likely outcome regardless of the summit) and in exchange they get massive amounts of financial relief and a partial US military pullback from the region. Victory, right? Except now if I'm, say, the Democratic Republic of Congo (just as a random example), I've just learned how I can leverage a brutal dictatorship, some slave labor and the threat of nuclear war to undo my UN sanctions!

Its a reward for bad behavior. It's negotiation with terrorists (ya know, that thing we say we never do).
 
c933103
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:08 pm

787Driver wrote:
2122M wrote:
787Driver wrote:

No I don't, but that doesn't change the fact that the US also violated basic human rights previously.


Sure. What's the point you're are trying to make that pertains to this summit though?


My point was that you can't just dismiss the idea of meeting Kim Jong Un and try to make a positive change that way, because he's violated many UN resolutions, human rights, etc.

As I said, maybe this meeting is exactly what is needed to change things.

- Although I agree they aren't the focus here and is probably helpful to sideline them for now to discuss the nuclear first, those problems aren't even mentioned in the meeting
- And it would be helpful if and only if there are actual positive changes, not pretending to changes and not negative changes
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15694
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:10 pm

texdravid wrote:
Won’t happen today or tomorrow but this bit of Trumpian diplomacy WITHOUT giving up billions of cash like Obozo gave to the wretched Mullahs has shown all these abhorrent leftists in the media, in western society that you lost and Trump is continuing to win big.


I guess when you're spewing so much bile it makes it difficult to separate fact from fiction, but Obama didn't give up billions, it was Iran's money all along.

bennett123 wrote:
My recollection is that Obama released Iranian money which had been frozen.

It was not US money.


Correct. But the baying dogs wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face. Much like their dear leader.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:31 pm

scbriml wrote:
I guess when you're spewing so much bile it makes it difficult to separate fact from fiction, but Obama didn't give up billions, it was Iran's money all along.
And he actually got something in return for it.
 
mham001
Posts: 4955
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:44 pm

Grasping at straws. The war games have been " suspended". So what? BFD. They have already been delayed and the worrld did not collapse. It makes perfect sense to a reasonable person, why on earth would anybody voluntarily consider disarming as your enemies point guns at you? Holding war games at this time is hardly going to build any trust. Really pathetic arguements, as if SK will be overrun tomorrow....

First time Kim breaks a promise, then is the time to go back to waving guns around. With the odiocy of ghese arguments, little wonder they never got together sooner.
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:47 pm

mham001 wrote:
Grasping at straws. The war games have been " suspended". So what? BFD. They have already been delayed and the worrld did not collapse. It makes perfect sense to a reasonable person, why on earth would anybody voluntarily consider disarming as your enemies point guns at you? Holding war games at this time is hardly going to build any trust. Really pathetic arguements, as if SK will be overrun tomorrow....

First time Kim breaks a promise, then is the time to go back to waving guns around. With the odiocy of ghese arguments, little wonder they never got together sooner.


Kim has to make a promise in order to break one. Right now we have nothing but a dog and pony show in Singapore and a cancelled military exercise.
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:53 pm

windy95 wrote:
salttee wrote:
They are obviously blindsided.
Lt. Col. Jennifer Lovett, a United States military spokeswoman in South Korea, said in an email that the American command there “has received no updated guidance on execution or cessation of training exercises — to include this fall’s schedule Ulchi Freedom Guardian.”

“We will continue with our current military posture until we receive updated guidance from the Department of Defense,” she added.


You are quoting some Lt Col in Korea as your proof of being blind sided? LOL
When you say the military was blind sided that would mean SECDEF and the CJCS knew nothing about it. Not the troops in the field.
And yes sometimes in negotiating you give up something as an Olive branch. Suspending the exercises costs us nothing and can be restarted at any time.
The only thing I will go along with there is the fact that the annual joint exercise "can be restarted at any time" as you say. I fact, it doesn't seem as though planning for it has even been terminated. But that's in the future.

As it stands now, Trump gave away something big politically and in substance. And got nothing in return.
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet in historic summit

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:57 pm

787Driver wrote:
As I said, maybe this meeting is exactly what is needed to change things.
So far the only changes have come from the US side in the form of a concession.

Also: Are you sure all the sanctions are all going to remain in place?
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