Redd
Topic Author
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:17 am

I accidentally stumbled upon this article from 2012, an air powered converted dirt bike with a supposed range of 62 miles & and a top speed of 87 mph and got to thinking. Is this the perfect form of transportation for the city? In cars, buses, motorcycles?

The range is more than adequate for a day in the city, the speed is more than adequate for any road, it can be 'refueled' in the same time it takes to put petrol in a tank, and does't require battery production and the question of the disposal of used batteries isn't relevant like it is in electric transport.

If there was filling stations around the city, really just a compressor, it could make the concept very viable, and it's probably the greenest solution to daily transport in the city.

https://www.wired.com/2012/11/air-motorcycle/

Quick film about the O2 Pursuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZXVH-r684o
 
WIederling
Posts: 7533
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:36 am

Filling the bottle loses you lots of energy .
Expanding the compressed air for work again is pretty lossy.

But the working fluid as such is clean :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:25 am

I know PSA was working on a hybrid version, petrol and air. The air was compressed by braking and used to assist acceleration but I think the project was stopped.
Once the air is compressed it needs to be kept hot otherwise you lose energy.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9881
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:34 am

mad99 wrote:
I know PSA was working on a hybrid version, petrol and air. The air was compressed by braking and used to assist acceleration but I think the project was stopped.
Once the air is compressed it needs to be kept hot otherwise you lose energy.


... and if you want to maintain the energy, you get into "melt the tank" regions quite quick.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10853
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:49 am

Yes PSA (Peugeot-Citroën) worked on "hybrid-air" extensively, presented concept cars and said the tech is ready, but too many incentives for hybrid cars are only made for electric-hybrids : https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... hybrid-air
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10853
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:47 am

I don't see why you'd need the heat, the system uses hydraulic pumps, heat serves no purpose.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
WIederling
Posts: 7533
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:22 pm

Aesma wrote:
I don't see why you'd need the heat, the system uses hydraulic pumps, heat serves no purpose.


You go from adiabatic compression( and later adiabatic expansion) ( theoretically loss less )
to isothermic compression while loosing the energy difference -> lossy.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Okie
Posts: 3961
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:53 pm

Redd wrote:
If there was filling stations around the city, really just a compressor, it could make the concept very viable, and it's probably the greenest solution to daily transport in the city.


Redd we use the numbers of 8 electrical horsepower of input to equal 1 horsepower of air output for industrial applications. (100psi)
I suspect that they are using cylinders in the 2215 psi range which requires even more energy losses.
That is not counting energy losses to produce the electricity used for compression nor dryers for conditioning the air after compression.
Air has its advantages in some applications just not efficient enough to power a vehicle with those massive losses.

Just look at the new battery powered impact wrenches that produce the torque that only air powered equipment could do in the past.
Air has fallen into steam age as a source of power.

Okie
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9881
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:12 pm

WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I don't see why you'd need the heat, the system uses hydraulic pumps, heat serves no purpose.


You go from adiabatic compression( and later adiabatic expansion) ( theoretically loss less )
to isothermic compression while loosing the energy difference -> lossy.


:checkmark:
When the input energy is free, you don't really need to care, so a pneumatic hybrid may be beneficial, but as a fuel, you want to keep the heat.
Also, air gets hot when you compress it, it gets cold when you expand it. There would be some ice build up somewhere.

And if you don't want the heat, to keep your air tank from melting for example, you need to cool the compressed air... so ad a radiator, probably a cooling fan,....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Pneumatic Powered Transportation - Viable?

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:28 pm

As Okie said, batteries are better now. The PSA example was a good application, braking compresses the air then use the compressed air to aid acceleration. Works for city driving and the hot stored air is used shortly after being compressed so insulation is not a big issue.

But now batteries provide more efficient way of doing it now. If you look at the cradle to grave environmental cost of the two systems that might be a different outcome.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ChrisKen, NIKV69 and 40 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos