BN747
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Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:56 am

First off I'd like say I'm very impressed with the behavior & conduct of All A.net members who responded in kind in the 'Leaving Neverland:Michael Jackson' thread, I pleaded in the initial post that we please keep it civil and on a mature level and resist the urge if one felt the need to get silly and stupid.

This is a serious subject, one than has led to centuries of untold crimes involving rape, beatings, lynchings & killings...nothing to joke about in the least. And still continuing today.

It's long past time America step up face it for what it is...a perennial stinging and harmful trait existing in too many Americans for 19 years into the 21st Century.

It's not going away...without a fight. We are seeing the worst of it in the mass killings.

It's been said that 'All Great Empires Fall From Within'...America's unaddressed race problems compounded with a virulent political divide fast tracks us to that destiny - it certainly does not help to sustain the American empire. The very social fabric of the nation is threaten to be ripped apart.

The recent 'immigrant attack' killing nearly 50 people and injuring scores more, has left the planet somewhat stunned given where it occurred by an Australian citizen.

Any American tuned into the history of American Brand of Racism and it's origins...know that racism did not begin in America, but America peeled off European unorganized versions of regional racist plagued areas from the 1400-1600s and perfected and when on to institutionalize it only to export it as well.

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.

I know that tribalist behavior is a natural human phenomenon date back to the 1st groups of humans.

Slavery most likely existed in most settlements across the globe. But things coalesced as civilizations came into greater contact with another and humans bartered and sold in the trade enterprises everywhere.

Mohammed of the Quran had a slave, Bilal.

The Bible has all kinds of rules and laws with regard how to conduct human chattel/slavery.

Be the practice regional, the Arab trading of slaves grew into an international business endeavor.

Europeans witnessed and partook in sporadic fashion across the Continent - no real structured widespread organized system took root.

But when they decided to professionalize the slave trade, namely the Dutch East India Company (Dutch: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC) a megacorporation known for their brutality, violence employed to made the slave work and transit the globe.

The Americas (North and South) was the premier market as the New World was settled or invaded...required back breaking work to make it happen.
African Nations partook in delivering captured rivals to sold in the Americas, they did so out of profitability and at the barrels of mightier guns vs bows/arrows/spears.

Fast Forward in a nutshell, America perfected the Slave system to a degree never seen before. Modern day police forces have roots dating back to Slave Patrols, largely in the US South.
Slavery in Brazil was equally as organized and just as harsh and cruel and in many case by case basis worse than the US.
America had it's war to keep the nation intact.

But even in the aftermath, the nation's will to make 'right' all that was wrong regarding America's former slaves was outmatched by the South's determination to re-establish White Dominance over the newly freed blacks. And ever since that period leading to this day in time, attitudes then is very much alive today - in too many minds, passed on largely via family, schools (segregated or not)

We Americans at this time cannot rely on our current leader to lift a finger to abated this problem any more than the need to get the ball rolling to end sexism against women in American society.
But that's another discussion.

The shooter in New Zealand is said to have followed the path as the swedish mass killer, Anders Behring Breivik and his manifest calling for a race war.

What's next?

I personally think this is a much larger problem than meets the average eye, again like sexism, you cannot begin to imagine what women go through on a daily basis - and if you're married, trust me..your wife, mom, sister or GF won't tell you everything they endure. They suffer & deal with it to not make waves.

So, how do we resolve this as species on the planet? I know in this microwave mentally age, we want the easy way...not too much work. Nonetheless, hard work on minds is needed.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:14 am

Now here's a shocker to me anyways...just posted on their site..

New Zealand has a long history of white supremacism — and the US had a major hand in it
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/new-ze ... ajor-hand/

News to me, what say you down-unders...this true?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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777Jet
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:51 am

BN747 wrote:

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.



It's already divided, probably beyond repair. The alternate leader had no interest in unifying the nation, calling those on the other side names. Do you think the other candidate would have achieved more unity with her attitude towards those opposite such as her "basket of deplorables" comment, which, by the way, contributed to her defeat? The answer is 'no'. The US has become more and more divided for some time. Such division has picked up pace and will continue to do so, especially with social media and technologies that make communication and access to information so easy. As sad and disappointing as it is, that's just the way things will probably remain. People will try to interact with those with different politics but eventually they will get tired of being insulted and called names and just say why bother. It will just go on and on like this. IMHO neither side will give in. Each side will find ways to blame the other. There is no practical solution. It is what it is. :twocents:
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Kiwirob
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:35 am

BN747 wrote:
Now here's a shocker to me anyways...just posted on their site..

New Zealand has a long history of white supremacism — and the US had a major hand in it
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/new-ze ... ajor-hand/

News to me, what say you down-unders...this true?

BN747


That article said nothing about anything, it’s poorly written rubbish.

Back to the topic, everyone discriminates, I’ve been discriminated against and I know I’ve judged people based on sex, ethnicity and religion. It’s what we do as humans, we more accepting of peole who are like ourselves than those who are different.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:45 am

777Jet wrote:
BN747 wrote:

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.



It's already divided, probably beyond repair. The alternate leader had no interest in unifying the nation, calling those on the other side names. Do you think the other candidate would have achieved more unity with her attitude towards those opposite such as her "basket of deplorables" comment, which, by the way, contributed to her defeat? The answer is 'no'. The US has become more and more divided for some time. Such division has picked up pace and will continue to do so, especially with social media and technologies that make communication and access to information so easy. As sad and disappointing as it is, that's just the way things will probably remain. People will try to interact with those with different politics but eventually they will get tired of being insulted and called names and just say why bother. It will just go on and on like this. IMHO neither side will give in. Each side will find ways to blame the other. There is no practical solution. It is what it is. :twocents:


Basket of deplorables is extremely fitting for the most visible part of trumps base. Trumps *voters* that put him in office were mostly conservatives who held their nose and voted for the Republican on the ticket. They were silent, not very visible. It's the blatant bigots that made themselves seen. As far as I'm concerned, they can crawl right back into the cracks they crawled out from.

No president has had such divided opinions on them. Presidential approval polls usually have a large portion of "no opinion" types who don't care about politics. Trump 's approval polls that don't "push" voters to pick between approve and disapprove show a stunningly small "no opinion" gap. He's not going to have an incumbency advantage. That doesn't mean he isn't going to cheat and leverage his violent extremist supporters (those high visibility ones I speak of) to intimidate the people of this country.

Yes we can easily be more United than this. We were united before when we didn't give bigots and extremists a voice. We can knock them back into their place.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:10 am

Anders Behring Breivik is Norwegian, not Swedish. Racism is part of the human condition: it exists everywhere on the planet. Two separate communities living side-by-side will inevitably have differences, often leading to misunderstandings, mistrust (often unjustified) and -- at its extreme -- hatred and violence. It's usually not a problem if there is a large majority and small minorities: the communiities exist can side by side, treating each other with respect, and without any problems. If the majority population feel under threat (either from an increasing minority, with percieved threats to their status, either politically or economically), it can become a problem. (You can see this happening now with the rise of the far-right in Europe.) A lot of people are surprised to discover there is a small (0.01 per cent of the population) Jewish community living quite harmoniously in Iran. And this is in a country which literally wants to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

So to answer your question: How do we resolve this as a species? We can't, unforuntately. It's been part of the human condition since time immemorial (and probably part of some inbuilt survival mechanism). We have to live with it, and manage it responsibly -- if that's at all possible. The brutal killings in Christchurch were not racist as such, but sectarian, another seemingly inbuilt condition of the human race.

We are very complex beings, that's for sure, with very complex issues which certainly won't be resolved easily.
 
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777Jet
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:54 am

Jouhou wrote:
Basket of deplorables is extremely fitting for the most visible part of trumps base. Trumps *voters* that put him in office were mostly conservatives who held their nose and voted for the Republican on the ticket. They were silent, not very visible. It's the blatant bigots that made themselves seen. As far as I'm concerned, they can crawl right back into the cracks they crawled out from.

No president has had such divided opinions on them. Presidential approval polls usually have a large portion of "no opinion" types who don't care about politics. Trump 's approval polls that don't "push" voters to pick between approve and disapprove show a stunningly small "no opinion" gap. He's not going to have an incumbency advantage. That doesn't mean he isn't going to cheat and leverage his violent extremist supporters (those high visibility ones I speak of) to intimidate the people of this country.

Yes we can easily be more United than this. We were united before when we didn't give bigots and extremists a voice. We can knock them back into their place.


I suspect that the section of Trump voters that you call bigots and extremists post similar comments on whatever forums they use about the violent, name calling, bigots on the Left. The name calling and extreme hatred goes both ways. That is the problem. The differences between the Left and Right, right or wrong, are far too extreme. I agree that the US can be more united, way more united, than it currently is, but it will never happen. It's too late, especially given how society operates nowadays. And, this did not start with Trump, it started well before Trump entered politics despite how much the current political situation exacerbated the issue. Troublesome times ahead for the world. BTW, Hillary said 'half' of Trump's supporters were in the 'basket of deplorables' - not just the small visible portion you refer to. If Hillary wasn't so arrogant and pompous we might not be having this discussion.

Braybuddy wrote:
How do we resolve this as a species? We can't, unforuntately. It's been part of the human condition since time immemorial (and probably part of some inbuilt survival mechanism). We have to live with it, and manage it responsibly -- if that's at all possible.


Braybuddy wrote:
We are very complex beings, that's for sure, with very complex issues which certainly won't be resolved easily.


Sad but true. Very well said.
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Jouhou
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:07 pm

777Jet wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Basket of deplorables is extremely fitting for the most visible part of trumps base. Trumps *voters* that put him in office were mostly conservatives who held their nose and voted for the Republican on the ticket. They were silent, not very visible. It's the blatant bigots that made themselves seen. As far as I'm concerned, they can crawl right back into the cracks they crawled out from.

No president has had such divided opinions on them. Presidential approval polls usually have a large portion of "no opinion" types who don't care about politics. Trump 's approval polls that don't "push" voters to pick between approve and disapprove show a stunningly small "no opinion" gap. He's not going to have an incumbency advantage. That doesn't mean he isn't going to cheat and leverage his violent extremist supporters (those high visibility ones I speak of) to intimidate the people of this country.

Yes we can easily be more United than this. We were united before when we didn't give bigots and extremists a voice. We can knock them back into their place.


I suspect that the section of Trump voters that you call bigots and extremists post similar comments on whatever forums they use about the violent, name calling, bigots on the Left. The name calling and extreme hatred goes both ways. That is the problem. The differences between the Left and Right, right or wrong, are far too extreme. I agree that the US can be more united, way more united, than it currently is, but it will never happen. It's too late, especially given how society operates nowadays. And, this did not start with Trump, it started well before Trump entered politics despite how much the current political situation exacerbated the issue. Troublesome times ahead for the world. BTW, Hillary said 'half' of Trump's supporters were in the 'basket of deplorables' - not just the small visible portion you refer to. If Hillary wasn't so arrogant and pompous we might not be having this discussion.

Braybuddy wrote:
How do we resolve this as a species? We can't, unforuntately. It's been part of the human condition since time immemorial (and probably part of some inbuilt survival mechanism). We have to live with it, and manage it responsibly -- if that's at all possible.


Braybuddy wrote:
We are very complex beings, that's for sure, with very complex issues which certainly won't be resolved easily.


Sad but true. Very well said.


Um yeah no both sides are not the same. And honestly 20-25% of the country has always had fascist sentiments throughout the history of this country. Guess what? That comes out to roughly half of his support.

The only difference now is they have deluded themselves into thinking they aren't a minority. They need to go back to understanding they don't have a role in our society.
 
Magog
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:19 pm

Jouhou wrote:
And honestly 20-25% of the country has always had fascist sentiments throughout the history of this country.

Source?
 
BN747
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:26 pm

777Jet wrote:
BN747 wrote:

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.



It's already divided, probably beyond repair. The alternate leader had no interest in unifying the nation, calling those on the other side names. Do you think the other candidate would have achieved more unity with her attitude towards those opposite such as her "basket of deplorables" comment, which, by the way, contributed to her defeat? The answer is 'no'. The US has become more and more divided for some time. Such division has picked up pace and will continue to do so, especially with social media and technologies that make communication and access to information so easy. As sad and disappointing as it is, that's just the way things will probably remain. People will try to interact with those with different politics but eventually they will get tired of being insulted and called names and just say why bother. It will just go on and on like this. IMHO neither side will give in. Each side will find ways to blame the other. There is no practical solution. It is what it is. :twocents:


I'm always carrying on about how poor we are at humans are at 'processing information' (learning from our mistakes), because if that reason,,,I think every word you say is true.

But I must ask, then is that the case was sexism everywhere as well? Because 'sexism' is a very learned behavior.

Braybuddy wrote:
Anders Behring Breivik is Norwegian, not Swedish. Racism is part of the human condition: it exists everywhere on the planet. Two separate communities living side-by-side will inevitably have differences, often leading to misunderstandings, mistrust (often unjustified) and -- at its extreme -- hatred and violence. It's usually not a problem if there is a large majority and small minorities: the communiities exist can side by side, treating each other with respect, and without any problems. If the majority population feel under threat (either from an increasing minority, with percieved threats to their status, either politically or economically), it can become a problem. (You can see this happening now with the rise of the far-right in Europe.) A lot of people are surprised to discover there is a small (0.01 per cent of the population) Jewish community living quite harmoniously in Iran. And this is in a country which literally wants to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

So to answer your question: How do we resolve this as a species? We can't, unforuntately. It's been part of the human condition since time immemorial (and probably part of some inbuilt survival mechanism). We have to live with it, and manage it responsibly -- if that's at all possible. The brutal killings in Christchurch were not racist as such, but sectarian, another seemingly inbuilt condition of the human race.

We are very complex beings, that's for sure, with very complex issues which certainly won't be resolved easily.


My apologies about the Swedish nationality labeling of Breivik as well as his act was committed in his native Noerway.

True, humans are very complexed beings. Yet, extremely simple in thought.

Our biological existence is really what is really complex...the part that makes us 'US', its that cranial occupant 'the brain'. It be conditioned to function in any manner we wish.
There are many many brilliant participants on A.net as well see them on a daily basis answering technical details beyond the grasp of most of us, just as the works of Astrophysics and other professions
.

But all of that is learned. No one is born having anything sorted out, we are ALL born IGNORANT...no one can deny that.

The planet is growing more and more accepting of same sex relationships - the world is not growing in the direction of opposition to it...so a 'learned' behavor - anti-homosexuality is being abated daily everywhere.

Racism/bigotry is a learned behavior.

So are our complexed ways married to selecting not to improve on that front?

Because as we see the USA's past and strives of corrective behaviors - things are on a constant pace of change.

And make no mistake, there is a fight going on. The struggle to end racism by groups vs the efforts by othes to keep it going.
Same over sexism
Same for poor vs wealthy

Mentality complexity is not a valid excuse of acceptance of racist behavior/conduct in the face of that.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Magog wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
And honestly 20-25% of the country has always had fascist sentiments throughout the history of this country.

Source?


Look at Nixon's polling numbers when he resigned. Look at polling numbers for any politician who has run afoul of treating our nation and constitution with respect. Start looking at other statistics involving habits associated with a certain behavior type. The number 22% pops up repeatedly. This number shows up in the politics and statistics of other countries. Slightly more than a fifth of the world's population craves a domineering leader that will tell them what to think feel and do in exchange for a status in a hierarchy and a leadership that promises to "protect" them by anyone who threatens their heirarchal status. That is what feeds Authoritarianism.
 
Magog
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:35 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Magog wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
And honestly 20-25% of the country has always had fascist sentiments throughout the history of this country.

Source?


Look at Nixon's polling numbers when he resigned. Look at polling numbers for any politician who has run afoul of treating our nation and constitution with respect. Start looking at other statistics involving habits associated with a certain behavior type. The number 22% pops up repeatedly. This number shows up in the politics and statistics of other countries. Slightly more than a fifth of the world's population craves a domineering leader that will tell them what to think feel and do in exchange for a status in a hierarchy and a leadership that promises to "protect" them by anyone who threatens their heirarchal status. That is what feeds Authoritarianism.

Do you actually have a source? This is getting old. You’ve also completely moved the goalposts when challenged on your absurd claim.
 
Jetty
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:41 pm

BN747 wrote:
Europeans witnessed and partook in sporadic fashion across the Continent - no real structured widespread organized system took root.

Not sporadic at all, Africans are estimated to have made over 1 million European slaves. Why you could even think such a thing is because many were bought back by follow Europeans -unlike Africans who were sold by other Africans- and they generally weren't allowed to have children among each other thus it isn't visible in the current demographics as is the transatlantic slave trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

But when they decided to professionalize the slave trade, namely the Dutch East India Company (Dutch: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC) a megacorporation known for their brutality, violence employed to made the slave work and transit the globe.

While known for their brutality the VOC had very little to do with intercontinental slavetrade. Only the name on itself should already make that clear: Oost-Indië = current day Indonesia. If you'd have ever been there you'd know there are hardly any people of African heritage.

So, how do we resolve this as species on the planet?

Let's start by educating ourselves and getting our facts straight.
 
BN747
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:33 pm

Jetty wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Europeans witnessed and partook in sporadic fashion across the Continent - no real structured widespread organized system took root.

Not sporadic at all, Africans are estimated to have made over 1 million European slaves. Why you could even think such a thing is because many were bought back by follow Europeans -unlike Africans who were sold by other Africans- and they generally weren't allowed to have children among each other thus it isn't visible in the current demographics as is the transatlantic slave trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade


'unlike Africans'..is a unbalanced thought overlooking the fact that if the Africans gained superior fire power that would not have.

Fellow Europeans did so ONLY with that advantage, because that wanted to sans the warring capabilities would have made that feat impossible -- just as the 'unlike Africans.

Sheer might and force vs fear and lack of combat counter measures had to be at work when the Africans invaded European and again, when the Europeans returned the favor, only they went further.
They took excessive measures to suppress any chance of retaliation by conquering, subjugating and keeping the African powerless and in forced suppression of any knowledge to mount objection (by forced).

It sounds like your argument is centered on justifying the factual outcome based on 'who started it'... and that's it.



None of that has anything to do with what they ignited and expanded on.


Jetty wrote:
Let's start by educating ourselves and getting our facts straight.
[/quote][/quote]

More education is always more helpful than not.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Now here's a shocker to me anyways...just posted on their site..

New Zealand has a long history of white supremacism — and the US had a major hand in it
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/new-ze ... ajor-hand/

News to me, what say you down-unders...this true?

BN747


That article said nothing about anything, it’s poorly written rubbish.

Back to the topic, everyone discriminates, I’ve been discriminated against and I know I’ve judged people based on sex, ethnicity and religion. It’s what we do as humans, we more accepting of peole who are like ourselves than those who are different.


Perhaps, but you refuted nothing with fact a thing, only griping about the article's grammatic presentation.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Blerg
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:04 pm

All societies are racist to a certain extent. Also, if the US system was so anti-anyone-who-isn't-white then why are so many non-whites emigrating to the US and why are so many becoming successful there?

As for the slave trade, don't forge that it was the whites who put and end to it. The British even had to bombard Zanzibar so as to put an end to it despite massive protests made by the Arabs and the local chiefs.
 
Magog
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
Also, if the US system was so anti-anyone-who-isn't-white then why are so many non-whites emigrating to the US and why are so many becoming successful there?

See, e.g. Asians.
 
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:32 pm

BN747 you have lost me with your opening post. I do not get what your point is. Racism is deeply rooted in the psychic of humans in general, you belong to my group and you are ok, you don't so I don't trust you. Luckily we are humans and can overcome racism as much as possible.

I get you wanted to put racism in a historical context, but for me it is just a random list of incidents and it doesn't work for me at all for explaining this problem in society.

BN747 wrote:
But when they decided to professionalize the slave trade, namely the Dutch East India Company (Dutch: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC) a megacorporation known for their brutality, violence employed to made the slave work and transit the globe.


This is not correct, it was the WIC, whom perfected the trade. You have put it correctly that slavery was widespread, especially in Africa. So putting this solely on some western European countries is also misrepresenting the past and thus denying a large part of what happened. It is a very American/Carabian view.

In Algiers during the time of the Regency of Algiers in North Africa in the 19th century, 1.5 million Christians and Europeans were captured and forced into slavery


That said, this is indeed not the proudest moment in Dutch history, certainly looking through the eyes of 21st-century men.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:40 pm

The big thing in the US is there are laws that prevent or totally put down racism, on paper. Any hate speech, violent crime, etc... is dealt with to the full extent of the law regardless of race. Its on an individual level in the US were racism is fermented.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Magog
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:40 pm

Dutchy wrote:
BN747 you have lost me with your opening post. I do not get what your point is. Racism is deeply rooted in the psychic of humans in general, you belong to my group and you are ok, you don't so I don't trust you. Luckily we are humans and can overcome racism as much as possible.


Very true. It’s important to not look at these issues from a Euro-centric point of view.
 
1836Sam
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:46 pm

Magog wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
BN747 you have lost me with your opening post. I do not get what your point is. Racism is deeply rooted in the psychic of humans in general, you belong to my group and you are ok, you don't so I don't trust you. Luckily we are humans and can overcome racism as much as possible.


Very true. It’s important to not look at these issues from a Euro-centric point of view.


You’ve lost me. Please explain what you mean. What does the post you’re responding to have to do with a “Euro-centric point of view?”
 
Magog
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Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:01 pm

1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
BN747 you have lost me with your opening post. I do not get what your point is. Racism is deeply rooted in the psychic of humans in general, you belong to my group and you are ok, you don't so I don't trust you. Luckily we are humans and can overcome racism as much as possible.


Very true. It’s important to not look at these issues from a Euro-centric point of view.


You’ve lost me. Please explain what you mean. What does the post you’re responding to have to do with a “Euro-centric point of view?”

Sure. My point is that racism is a global problem and by only expressing concern for certain subsets of racist behavior we neglect the plight of those who do not occupy our Euro-centric world.
 
seb146
Posts: 19129
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:25 pm

Blerg wrote:
All societies are racist to a certain extent.


That does not give anyone the right to walk into a house of worship and start murdering.

Also, if the US system was so anti-anyone-who-isn't-white then why are so many non-whites emigrating to the US and why are so many becoming successful there?


Because private sector jobs pay more here than in their home country and because their education in their home country was better than here.

As for the slave trade, don't forge that it was the whites who put and end to it. The British even had to bombard Zanzibar so as to put an end to it despite massive protests made by the Arabs and the local chiefs.


The whites started the slave trade and, even after "ending" slavery (read the stories of Black share croppers) there was still massive oppression of Blacks in the United States. The whites decided North America belonged to them and everyone else was invaders or squatters.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:27 pm

BN747 - Its difficult to take you at your word, that you are genuinely looking for a solution when you follow this true statement:

BN747 wrote:
This is a serious subject, one than has led to centuries of untold crimes involving rape, beatings, lynchings & killings...nothing to joke about in the least. And still continuing today.


With this series of statements:

BN747 wrote:
The recent 'immigrant attack' killing nearly 50 people and injuring scores more, has left the planet somewhat stunned given where it occurred by an Australian citizen.

Any American tuned into the history of American Brand of Racism and it's origins...know that racism did not begin in America, but America peeled off European unorganized versions of regional racist plagued areas from the 1400-1600s and perfected and when on to institutionalize it only to export it as well.

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.


You are trying to somehow connect President Trump with an atrocity that he had nothing to do with on the other side of the planet. You do it again later in your post.

The thread then degenerated into the typical "Trump supporters are in baskets of deplorables" scree that we often see here. You do no service to the issue that you claim to care about by blaming Trump for the worlds problems. The entire planet is EXTREMELY racist. As you said, it didn't start with America. I can tell you one thing for sure, accusing your political opponents of racism where none exists may be convenient and provide you some momentary satisfaction, but it only makes the real problems worse.

And I can also tell you that America is an idea, not a race, and all races and religions are welcome to join into our idea of equality and freedom. We are successful at it. We are the free-est, most equal society in the history of the planet. Yes we can do better, ALOT better, but as a country we are light years ahead of most other countries.

Don't let the political pundits pollute your brain with BS.

Mike Drop
 
seb146
Posts: 19129
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:28 pm

Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:

Very true. It’s important to not look at these issues from a Euro-centric point of view.


You’ve lost me. Please explain what you mean. What does the post you’re responding to have to do with a “Euro-centric point of view?”

Sure. My point is that racism is a global problem and by only expressing concern for certain subsets of racist behavior we neglect the plight of those who do not occupy our Euro-centric world.


Congratulations, Magog, you have found another way to say "both sides do it" and have given no solution on how you would fix any of this. People wearing MAGA hats killing, people wearing MAGA hats looking to beat people up because they are different. Your solution is "both sides do it". Sorry, but that is not good enough. What is your solution?

Now that we know that YOUR leader is the inspiration for these attacks that have now gone international, maybe we should do something about the source of these attacks?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:29 pm

seb146 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
All societies are racist to a certain extent.


That does not give anyone the right to walk into a house of worship and start murdering.

Nobody said that. Literally nobody.
 
seb146
Posts: 19129
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:31 pm

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
All societies are racist to a certain extent.


That does not give anyone the right to walk into a house of worship and start murdering.

Nobody said that. Literally nobody.


A guy in New Zealand did. And 49 paid because of it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

You’ve lost me. Please explain what you mean. What does the post you’re responding to have to do with a “Euro-centric point of view?”

Sure. My point is that racism is a global problem and by only expressing concern for certain subsets of racist behavior we neglect the plight of those who do not occupy our Euro-centric world.


Congratulations, Magog, you have found another way to say "both sides do it" and have given no solution on how you would fix any of this. People wearing MAGA hats killing, people wearing MAGA hats looking to beat people up because they are different. Your solution is "both sides do it". Sorry, but that is not good enough. What is your solution?

Now that we know that YOUR leader is the inspiration for these attacks that have now gone international, maybe we should do something about the source of these attacks?

Wow. You missed my point entirely. My point is that everyone does it. It’s not about “sides.” I am combating Euro-centrism. That used to be considered a good thing.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:31 pm

Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:

Very true. It’s important to not look at these issues from a Euro-centric point of view.


You’ve lost me. Please explain what you mean. What does the post you’re responding to have to do with a “Euro-centric point of view?”

Sure. My point is that racism is a global problem and by only expressing concern for certain subsets of racist behavior we neglect the plight of those who do not occupy our Euro-centric world.


Thank you. So what is your proposed solution? As described, if I read between the lines it appears to be either (1) don’t talk about local issues at all; or (2) when you talk about local issues you have to talk about issues in the entire world. And that just sounds silly to me! (No offense, of course.)
 
Magog
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:50 pm

1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

You’ve lost me. Please explain what you mean. What does the post you’re responding to have to do with a “Euro-centric point of view?”

Sure. My point is that racism is a global problem and by only expressing concern for certain subsets of racist behavior we neglect the plight of those who do not occupy our Euro-centric world.


Thank you. So what is your proposed solution? As described, if I read between the lines it appears to be either (1) don’t talk about local issues at all; or (2) when you talk about local issues you have to talk about issues in the entire world. And that just sounds silly to me! (No offense, of course.)

Neither. It’s fine to talk about local problems. It’s not okay to use Euro-centric terms and concepts that perpetuate white power.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:51 pm

Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
Sure. My point is that racism is a global problem and by only expressing concern for certain subsets of racist behavior we neglect the plight of those who do not occupy our Euro-centric world.


Thank you. So what is your proposed solution? As described, if I read between the lines it appears to be either (1) don’t talk about local issues at all; or (2) when you talk about local issues you have to talk about issues in the entire world. And that just sounds silly to me! (No offense, of course.)

Neither. It’s fine to talk about local problems. It’s not okay to use Euro-centric terms and concepts that perpetuate white power.


I’m confused again! (Silly me!) Would you please explain what “Euro-centric terms and concepts” you are speaking of? Sounds like very coded language to me. Or else you’re saying racism is Euro-centric. Which contradicts your prior point, when you said it was global.

Help a brother out. Please ... speak freely! You’re amongst friends ...
Last edited by 1836Sam on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:55 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
BN747 - Its difficult to take you at your word, that you are genuinely looking for a solution when you follow this true statement:

BN747 wrote:
This is a serious subject, one than has led to centuries of untold crimes involving rape, beatings, lynchings & killings...nothing to joke about in the least. And still continuing today.


With this series of statements:

BN747 wrote:
The recent 'immigrant attack' killing nearly 50 people and injuring scores more, has left the planet somewhat stunned given where it occurred by an Australian citizen.

Any American tuned into the history of American Brand of Racism and it's origins...know that racism did not begin in America, but America peeled off European unorganized versions of regional racist plagued areas from the 1400-1600s and perfected and when on to institutionalize it only to export it as well.

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.


You are trying to somehow connect President Trump with an atrocity that he had nothing to do with on the other side of the planet. You do it again later in your post.

The thread then degenerated into the typical "Trump supporters are in baskets of deplorables" scree that we often see here. You do no service to the issue that you claim to care about by blaming Trump for the worlds problems. The entire planet is EXTREMELY racist. As you said, it didn't start with America. I can tell you one thing for sure, accusing your political opponents of racism where none exists may be convenient and provide you some momentary satisfaction, but it only makes the real problems worse.

And I can also tell you that America is an idea, not a race, and all races and religions are welcome to join into our idea of equality and freedom. We are successful at it. We are the free-est, most equal society in the history of the planet. Yes we can do better, ALOT better, but as a country we are light years ahead of most other countries.

Don't let the political pundits pollute your brain with BS.

Mike Drop


And your failed attempt to discredit all you've quote falls flat on the these facts...

The trade is soaked in the worst violence and most heinous cruelty.
The current president has sent every signal possible he's about dividing people, violently need be. Your tacit endorsement is astonishing clear.
The current president is trekking directly toward worsening conditions antithetical to the adverse.

This statement suggest exactly that...

Trump is urging his supporters to use violence and ‘brute force’ because investigations are closing in on him: Robert Reich
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/trump- ... ert-reich/

...that man has always been a steady and stable source of government insight.

MikeDrop wrote:
And I can also tell you that America is an idea, not a race, and all races and religions are welcome to join into our idea of equality and freedom. We are successful at it. We are the free-est, most equal society in the history of the planet. Yes we can do better, ALOT better, but as a country we are light years ahead of most other countries.


A very true statement, but you make in (belief) that it was all done with ease. No cost or price. The price is still being paid in ways that apparently escape you.
You stand on the shoulders of geniuses who strategized to better conditions while wholesale ignoring the cost extolled opon those who paid the steepest price.

Beating your chest about how you feel today does not mean it is appreciated nor shared by all.

The stern harsh tone from you regarding my addressing beginning to now is unpalatable to you - oh well, we know where that comes from.
Not mush there Mike.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:00 pm

Guys you are doing great tossing our your views and keeping it civil...much appreciated.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 979
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:04 pm

The OP is wrong. Numerous psychological studies have shown that humans are instinctually tribal by nature. This can manifest itself in racism given the right toxic brew. Which is why MLK’s insistence on judging people by the content of their character is so powerful and why identity politics are so insidious.

To be clear, it is not a coincidence that we’ve seen an increase in hate crimes in the same decade as we’ve seen an explosion in identitarianism and identity politics on both the left and right. This form of politics just exacerbates the natural human and tribal tendencies. Many of us have warned of the toxic nature of identity politics only to be ignored.

Well, the chickens are now coming home to roost. If you wish to see a stop to this, let us return to MLK’s declaration to judge each other by the content of our characters and not our immutable characteristics, including such trivial things such as our skin pigmentation.
 
Magog
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:09 pm

1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

Thank you. So what is your proposed solution? As described, if I read between the lines it appears to be either (1) don’t talk about local issues at all; or (2) when you talk about local issues you have to talk about issues in the entire world. And that just sounds silly to me! (No offense, of course.)

Neither. It’s fine to talk about local problems. It’s not okay to use Euro-centric terms and concepts that perpetuate white power.


I’m confused again! (Silly me!) Would you please explain what “Euro-centric terms and concepts” you are speaking of? Sounds like very coded language to me. Or else you’re saying racism is Euro-centric. Which contradicts your prior point, when you said it was global.

Help a brother out. Please ... speak freely! You’re amongst friends ...

Let me give you an example. New Zealand is considered to be a white country. Rightly, or wrongly.

Look at the attention the shooting in New Zealand received on this forum. (Appropriately so.)

How much attention did this receive?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... igeria/amp

Are their lives less valuable? Do we think less of African lives?

This is an example of what a Euro-centric perspective does.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
Neither. It’s fine to talk about local problems. It’s not okay to use Euro-centric terms and concepts that perpetuate white power.


I’m confused again! (Silly me!) Would you please explain what “Euro-centric terms and concepts” you are speaking of? Sounds like very coded language to me. Or else you’re saying racism is Euro-centric. Which contradicts your prior point, when you said it was global.

Help a brother out. Please ... speak freely! You’re amongst friends ...

Let me give you an example. New Zealand is considered to be a white country. Rightly, or wrongly.

Look at the attention the shooting in New Zealand received on this forum. (Appropriately so.)

How much attention did this receive?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... igeria/amp

Are their lives less valuable? Do we think less of African lives?

This is an example of what a Euro-centric perspective does.


OK so we’re back to where we were a couple of points ago. Can’t talk about local issues without talking about the world.

(BTW, you’re more than welcome to start a post about this article if you wish to discuss it. In fact, I think you should. Interesting choice, I must say. Persecution of Christians. Very “Euro-centric.”)
Last edited by 1836Sam on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Magog
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:13 pm

1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:

I’m confused again! (Silly me!) Would you please explain what “Euro-centric terms and concepts” you are speaking of? Sounds like very coded language to me. Or else you’re saying racism is Euro-centric. Which contradicts your prior point, when you said it was global.

Help a brother out. Please ... speak freely! You’re amongst friends ...

Let me give you an example. New Zealand is considered to be a white country. Rightly, or wrongly.

Look at the attention the shooting in New Zealand received on this forum. (Appropriately so.)

How much attention did this receive?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... igeria/amp

Are their lives less valuable? Do we think less of African lives?

This is an example of what a Euro-centric perspective does.


OK so we’re back to where we were a couple of points ago. Can’t talk about local issues without talking about the world.

(BTW, you’re more than welcome to start a post about this article if you wish to discuss it. In fact, I think you should.)

No. You are missing the point. I tried, though. All the best.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:22 pm

Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
Let me give you an example. New Zealand is considered to be a white country. Rightly, or wrongly.

Look at the attention the shooting in New Zealand received on this forum. (Appropriately so.)

How much attention did this receive?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... igeria/amp

Are their lives less valuable? Do we think less of African lives?

This is an example of what a Euro-centric perspective does.


OK so we’re back to where we were a couple of points ago. Can’t talk about local issues without talking about the world.

(BTW, you’re more than welcome to start a post about this article if you wish to discuss it. In fact, I think you should.)

No. You are missing the point. I tried, though. All the best.


Ta, girlfriend!
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 979
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Example of one of the many studies that have come to this conclusion.

“Infants show racial bias toward members of own race and against those of other races”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/n ... embers.amp

As a species, humans literally have to actively suppress their tribal instincts. identity politics, identitarianism, and an obsessive focus on immutable characteristics exacerbates what are the human species’ tribal instincts.

Identity politics should be banished to the dustbin of history. It is absolute poison for societies throughout the world. But I’m not optimistic in the slightest, as again, most people actually prefer tribalism. This entire forum is a testament to that.

We always hear the progressive canard that “the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice.”

How’s that working out so far in the 21st century? In the 80s, I was promised flying cars. Instead I got livestreams of mass murders on garbage social media sites, whose sole purpose and business model is to drive clicks and get us to hate each other.
Last edited by FreequentFlier on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Magog wrote:
1836Sam wrote:
Magog wrote:
Let me give you an example. New Zealand is considered to be a white country. Rightly, or wrongly.

Look at the attention the shooting in New Zealand received on this forum. (Appropriately so.)

How much attention did this receive?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... igeria/amp

Are their lives less valuable? Do we think less of African lives?

This is an example of what a Euro-centric perspective does.


OK so we’re back to where we were a couple of points ago. Can’t talk about local issues without talking about the world.

(BTW, you’re more than welcome to start a post about this article if you wish to discuss it. In fact, I think you should.)

No. You are missing the point. I tried, though. All the best.


Ta, girlfriend! Best of luck in all your future endeavors! Never give up!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 7794
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
The whites started the slave trade and, even after "ending" slavery (read the stories of Black share croppers) there was still massive oppression of Blacks in the United States. The whites decided North America belonged to them and everyone else was invaders or squatters.


That is a very American centric view. The whits did decide the America's belonged to them, no denying that, the indigenous people were kicked down.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:33 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
The OP is wrong. Numerous psychological studies have shown that humans are instinctually tribal by nature.


Oh? Show me how ...

What you said - The OP is wrong. Numerous psychological studies have shown that humans are instinctually tribal by nature.
is any different than...

I know that tribalist behavior is a natural human phenomenon date back to the 1st groups of humans.

What prompted to you dismiss my wording and to repeat the same.

FreequentFlier wrote:
To be clear, it is not a coincidence that we’ve seen an increase in hate crimes in the same decade as we’ve seen an explosion in identitarianism and identity politics on both the left and right. This form of politics just exacerbates the natural human and tribal tendencies. Many of us have warned of the toxic nature of identity politics only to be ignored.


So does the characteristics of being 'civil' putting the civil in civilization while trying to keep a lid on our 'natural' instincts, as in animal instincts/behavior.
You are insisting they are of one and same source.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Well, the chickens are now coming home to roost. If you wish to see a stop to this, let us return to MLK’s declaration to judge each other by the content of our characters and not our immutable characteristics, including such trivial things such as our skin pigmentation.


We can't return to where we never were.

We were never in a society of ' to judge each other by the content of our characters and not our immutable characteristics,'...

Those are words of inspiration yet to be visited.

This points to the failed notion of 'color-blindness'.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11897
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:38 pm

BN747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Now here's a shocker to me anyways...just posted on their site..

New Zealand has a long history of white supremacism — and the US had a major hand in it
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/new-ze ... ajor-hand/

News to me, what say you down-unders...this true?

BN747


That article said nothing about anything, it’s poorly written rubbish.

Back to the topic, everyone discriminates, I’ve been discriminated against and I know I’ve judged people based on sex, ethnicity and religion. It’s what we do as humans, we more accepting of peole who are like ourselves than those who are different.


Perhaps, but you refuted nothing with fact a thing, only griping about the article's grammatic presentation.

BN747


I refute the entire article, there’s nothing in it which speaks to white supremacy being an issue in NZ.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 979
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:39 pm

BN747 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
The OP is wrong. Numerous psychological studies have shown that humans are instinctually tribal by nature.


Oh? Show me how ...

What you said - The OP is wrong. Numerous psychological studies have shown that humans are instinctually tribal by nature.
is any different than...

I know that tribalist behavior is a natural human phenomenon date back to the 1st groups of humans.

What prompted to you dismiss my wording and to repeat the same.

FreequentFlier wrote:
To be clear, it is not a coincidence that we’ve seen an increase in hate crimes in the same decade as we’ve seen an explosion in identitarianism and identity politics on both the left and right. This form of politics just exacerbates the natural human and tribal tendencies. Many of us have warned of the toxic nature of identity politics only to be ignored.


So does the characteristics of being 'civil' putting the civil in civilization while trying to keep a lid on our 'natural' instincts, as in animal instincts/behavior.
You are insisting they are of one and same source.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Well, the chickens are now coming home to roost. If you wish to see a stop to this, let us return to MLK’s declaration to judge each other by the content of our characters and not our immutable characteristics, including such trivial things such as our skin pigmentation.


We can't return to where we never were.

We were never in a society of ' to judge each other by the content of our characters and not our immutable characteristics,'...

Those are words of inspiration yet to be visited.

This points to the failed notion of 'color-blindness'.

BN747


Oh to be an optimistic liberal in the go go 90s, dreaming of a better world free of racism.

Fast forward 20 years and aspiring for a color blind society is apparently for losers.

What happened to liberalism?
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11897
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:47 pm

seb146 wrote:

The whites started the slave trade and, even after "ending" slavery (read the stories of Black share croppers) there was still massive oppression of Blacks in the United States. The whites decided North America belonged to them and everyone else was invaders or squatters.


Prove it, slaving has been going on for thousands of years, I’d like to see you prove that white people started it. Slaves sold to the America’s were usually sold by other Africans and Arabs to slavers. Slavery is still around today, plenty of tribes in Africa still have slaves, theres around 9m slaves in Africa today. Then there’s also Eastern European and Asian women trafficked into the sex trade, they are also slaves, slavery is not just an African American issue.

https://qz.com/africa/1333946/global-sl ... the-world/
 
Blerg
Posts: 1459
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
All societies are racist to a certain extent.


That does not give anyone the right to walk into a house of worship and start murdering.

Also, if the US system was so anti-anyone-who-isn't-white then why are so many non-whites emigrating to the US and why are so many becoming successful there?


Because private sector jobs pay more here than in their home country and because their education in their home country was better than here.

As for the slave trade, don't forge that it was the whites who put and end to it. The British even had to bombard Zanzibar so as to put an end to it despite massive protests made by the Arabs and the local chiefs.


The whites started the slave trade and, even after "ending" slavery (read the stories of Black share croppers) there was still massive oppression of Blacks in the United States. The whites decided North America belonged to them and everyone else was invaders or squatters.


What do you mean whites started the slave trade? That's absolute and utter nonsense. Slaves have been traded since the dawn of time and they were not exclusively limited to white countries. Yes, blacks were badly treated in the US after the suspension of slavery but equally so, whites in 19th century Africa (non-military personnel such as missionaries, doctors or merchants....) were treated as badly if not worse. Racism happens everywhere but there is this tendency to only concentrate on whites. Also, the whites treated locals in north America the same way various Indian tribes treated their fellow Indian neighbors. They were as ruthless as the whites, even more as at least whites didn't mutilate bodies in the same way Indians did. Furthermore, these 'Natives' arrived to north America during the Ice Age. Why do they get to be called native but not the white settlers that arrived from Europe? After all, both groups came from elsewhere and treated the land as if it was exclusively theirs.

The private sector is subject to the laws of the US. If the system was as anti-white as some claim on here then these immigrants wouldn't be given a chance, not only to get to the US, but to prosper and advance their careers. They would be stuck or rejected by the system of laws set up by the mean white racists. So no, the US is not racist towards immigrants who respect the laws, including the immigration ones.

Also, I find it pathetic that some are trying to put the blame on Trump for the attacks in New Zealand. Who do we put the blame on when over 100 Christians are killed in Nigeria or when 50 Copts are killed in a church in Egypt? Should we blame Obama or Hillary since both have an openly anti-Christian rhetoric?
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11897
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:57 pm

Magog wrote:
Let me give you an example. New Zealand is considered to be a white country. Rightly, or wrongly.

Look at the attention the shooting in New Zealand received on this forum. (Appropriately so.)

How much attention did this receive?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/98 ... igeria/amp

Are their lives less valuable? Do we think less of African lives?

This is an example of what a Euro-centric perspective does.


It was broadcast on aljezera, and probably all over African centric news outlets, on the other hand did Africa outlets cover the Christchurch massacre? I don’t see why they would, what interest would a massacre in NZ be to a person living in Africa?

To be frank I’m not interested in Africa, I don’t have anything more than a passing interest in African affairs, it just doesn’t relate to me, I don’t see Africans as any less valuable but I’m just not interested in what happens in that part of the world. I doubt I’m any different to the majority of westernised people.
Last edited by Kiwirob on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 1156
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:59 pm

BN747 wrote:
First off I'd like say I'm very impressed with the behavior & conduct of All A.net members who responded in kind in the 'Leaving Neverland:Michael Jackson' thread, I pleaded in the initial post that we please keep it civil and on a mature level and resist the urge if one felt the need to get silly and stupid.

This is a serious subject, one than has led to centuries of untold crimes involving rape, beatings, lynchings & killings...nothing to joke about in the least. And still continuing today.

It's long past time America step up face it for what it is...a perennial stinging and harmful trait existing in too many Americans for 19 years into the 21st Century.

It's not going away...without a fight. We are seeing the worst of it in the mass killings.

It's been said that 'All Great Empires Fall From Within'...America's unaddressed race problems compounded with a virulent political divide fast tracks us to that destiny - it certainly does not help to sustain the American empire. The very social fabric of the nation is threaten to be ripped apart.

The recent 'immigrant attack' killing nearly 50 people and injuring scores more, has left the planet somewhat stunned given where it occurred by an Australian citizen.

Any American tuned into the history of American Brand of Racism and it's origins...know that racism did not begin in America, but America peeled off European unorganized versions of regional racist plagued areas from the 1400-1600s and perfected and when on to institutionalize it only to export it as well.

America is currently led by person who has no interest whatsoever in unifying the nation...and bringing it together. It is trekking toward a house divided.

I know that tribalist behavior is a natural human phenomenon date back to the 1st groups of humans.

Slavery most likely existed in most settlements across the globe. But things coalesced as civilizations came into greater contact with another and humans bartered and sold in the trade enterprises everywhere.

Mohammed of the Quran had a slave, Bilal.

The Bible has all kinds of rules and laws with regard how to conduct human chattel/slavery.

Be the practice regional, the Arab trading of slaves grew into an international business endeavor.

Europeans witnessed and partook in sporadic fashion across the Continent - no real structured widespread organized system took root.

But when they decided to professionalize the slave trade, namely the Dutch East India Company (Dutch: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC) a megacorporation known for their brutality, violence employed to made the slave work and transit the globe.

The Americas (North and South) was the premier market as the New World was settled or invaded...required back breaking work to make it happen.
African Nations partook in delivering captured rivals to sold in the Americas, they did so out of profitability and at the barrels of mightier guns vs bows/arrows/spears.

Fast Forward in a nutshell, America perfected the Slave system to a degree never seen before. Modern day police forces have roots dating back to Slave Patrols, largely in the US South.
Slavery in Brazil was equally as organized and just as harsh and cruel and in many case by case basis worse than the US.
America had it's war to keep the nation intact.

But even in the aftermath, the nation's will to make 'right' all that was wrong regarding America's former slaves was outmatched by the South's determination to re-establish White Dominance over the newly freed blacks. And ever since that period leading to this day in time, attitudes then is very much alive today - in too many minds, passed on largely via family, schools (segregated or not)

We Americans at this time cannot rely on our current leader to lift a finger to abated this problem any more than the need to get the ball rolling to end sexism against women in American society.
But that's another discussion.

The shooter in New Zealand is said to have followed the path as the swedish mass killer, Anders Behring Breivik and his manifest calling for a race war.

What's next?

I personally think this is a much larger problem than meets the average eye, again like sexism, you cannot begin to imagine what women go through on a daily basis - and if you're married, trust me..your wife, mom, sister or GF won't tell you everything they endure. They suffer & deal with it to not make waves.

So, how do we resolve this as species on the planet? I know in this microwave mentally age, we want the easy way...not too much work. Nonetheless, hard work on minds is needed.

BN747


Always been there, always will be there. Just have social media now for people to have a meltdown over it and try to lump everyone together and point fingers. Trying to lump everyone together because someone in a political party says or does something is bullocks. I couldn’t care less about drivel from some backwoods redneck or uppity a-hole from some liberal paradise. All the same, just smells a little different.
Putting one on ignore does not squelch speech or debate, it’s quiets the noise.
 
Magog
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:13 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

To be frank I’m not interested in Africa, I don’t have anything more than a passing interest in African affairs, it just doesn’t relate to me, I don’t see Africans as any less valuable but I’m just not interested in what happens in that part of the world. I doubt I’m any different to the majority of westernised people.

This is white privilege and Euro-centrism.
 
1836Sam
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:35 am

Re: Racism: America & the World

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:20 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
The OP is wrong. Numerous psychological studies have shown that humans are instinctually tribal by nature. This can manifest itself in racism given the right toxic brew. Which is why MLK’s insistence on judging people by the content of their character is so powerful and why identity politics are so insidious.

To be clear, it is not a coincidence that we’ve seen an increase in hate crimes in the same decade as we’ve seen an explosion in identitarianism and identity politics on both the left and right. This form of politics just exacerbates the natural human and tribal tendencies. Many of us have warned of the toxic nature of identity politics only to be ignored.

Well, the chickens are now coming home to roost. If you wish to see a stop to this, let us return to MLK’s declaration to judge each other by the content of our characters and not our immutable characteristics, including such trivial things such as our skin pigmentation.


Can’t speak for Dr King (didn’t know the guy) as you presume to do but it seems to me that he would find your post hollow and illogical and perhaps even highly offensive.

Dr King practiced “identity politics,” which can be defined simply as pointing out to people that the government systematically suppresses certain classes of people through discriminatory legislation.

Guess what? Women, LGBT, immigrants, and poor people have to do the same for very obvious reasons. Sorry if that’s highly inconvenient or offensive to you, just give yourself a pat on the back for being more enlightened than Joe Q Public.

Other apologists in this thread, under the guise of being not racists, of course concerned solely with the content of a person’s character, have pointed out that the U.S. is better than most countries. Not sure how to take that, as it seems to be an implicit warning to “stop whining” without acknowledging the obvious ... we’re better because we HAVE been talking about it as a society for generations and most of us know we can do better.

(BTW you made another not-so-veiled and paternalistic threat yet AGAIN. “We told you to stay in your lane, and you didn’t, so now face the consequences. The authority with which you speak in matters such as these turns my stomach.)

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