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Aesma
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British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:44 am

So you might have heard of it, or not, candidates to replace Theresa May as UK Prime Minister are debating whether it would be a good idea to prorogue (shut down) parliament before the 31st October deadline for Brexit, in order for the Prime Minister to take the country out of the EU without opposition from parliament.

It seems to me some of these people would like to be President of the UK, not Prime Minister !

I have often been told over the years, including by French people, that a parliamentary system is more democratic than a presidential one, I wonder what these people think now.

What do you think ?
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chimborazo
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 am

Well we don’t have a president because we have a First past the post system to elect MPs and then the majority holder (even not with necessarily any kind of popular vote) is invited to form a government... as you know.
However re the EU there was a popular vote and an outright majority voted to leave. It still hasn’t happened despite all the deadlines.
I hear a lot of talk about clearing up uncertainty in business.... having someone make a presidential-type decision would at least clear up that uncertainty. Should be fun to see what happens....
 
Olddog
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:12 am

The problem that is seems England voted to leave the EU politically but try desperately to find a backdoor to stay in a economically. Like a fly hitting a window....
 
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Francoflier
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:54 am

chimborazo wrote:
However re the EU there was a popular vote and an outright majority voted to leave. It still hasn’t happened despite all the deadlines.


The UK still is a representative democracy. A majority vote does not give the winning side of that vote unlimited and discretionary power to do anything they want. There is such a thing called opposition, a cornerstone of a democratic system...

The failure to implement Brexit is deeply rooted in the campaign leading up to the Brexit vote. The Brexit side was never interested in a realistic approach or debate to the issue, preferring instead to wallow in populism and non-viable promises.
The Brexit government subsequently found out, when they finally decided to seriously look into it, that delivering Brexit wasn't as easy as the campaign made it sound. They have no one but themselves to blame for the subsequent clusterf*c#.

Trying to bypass democracy and dabble in autocracy is not how they'll get out of that mess.

I'd honestly like to see the instigators of this heap, the Farages, the Johnsons et. al. be in charge and try to get out of the chaos they created.
They couldn't, of course, but then again it seems no one can anyway.
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Reinhardt
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:02 am

The Speaker has said it's unthinkable and he didn't think it was even needed for him to comment on it in the HOC because it's so stupid to even think it could be a possibility.

If democracy in the UK is already broken (it is in more ways than one), then doing this would finish it off. But hey, in this day and age when sense and sensibility goes out the window who knows.
 
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scbriml
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:53 am

Aesma wrote:
So you might have heard of it, or not, candidates to replace Theresa May as UK Prime Minister are debating whether it would be a good idea to prorogue (shut down) parliament before the 31st October deadline for Brexit, in order for the Prime Minister to take the country out of the EU without opposition from parliament.


It would also be without the approval of Parliament, which is legally required.

AFAIK, Esther McVey and Dominic Raab are the only candidates who have seriously suggested this as an option. To be clear, the Government can request it from The Queen and it would normally be approved, but it clearly represents a betrayal of the very democracy that Brexiteers keep whining about. But, since it would give them what they want, I'm sure they'd be fine about it.

Francoflier wrote:
Trying to bypass democracy and dabble in autocracy is not how they'll get out of that mess.


:checkmark:

Reinhardt wrote:
The Speaker has said it's unthinkable and he didn't think it was even needed for him to comment on it in the HOC because it's so stupid to even think it could be a possibility.


Well, despite be 'unthinkable', some Brextreemists have clearly thought about it! :sarcastic:
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KLDC10
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:04 am

As scbriml said, it has to be requested from the Queen. Constitutionally speaking, it is solely her right to prorogue parliament, not the Prime Minister's, although in practice she acts almost exclusively on the advice of the latter.
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ltbewr
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:28 am

Even during WWII the UK never failed to maintain normal order of the powers of the Parliament and the PM. Brexit has become one of the most destructive acts as to the UK's democracy. I doubt the Queen will use her position and limited powers to interfere, but maybe she may have to so to preserve the country from anarchy.
 
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scbriml
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:41 am

ltbewr wrote:
I doubt the Queen will use her position and limited powers to interfere, but maybe she may have to so to preserve the country from anarchy.


It would be very unlike her to take such action. But, the current situation is unprecedented in my (and her) lifetime and while I think it's unlikely, she might decide that she cannot agree to the request (she has expressed concern over the division in the country on this issue).

The whole process of prorogation would open a huge can of worms on all sides and although the phrase "constitutional crisis" has been overused the past few months, I think this situation would qualify.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:37 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I'd honestly like to see the instigators of this heap, the Farages, the Johnsons et. al. be in charge and try to get out of the chaos they created.
They couldn't, of course, but then again it seems no one can anyway.

BoJo insists he won't prorogue Parliament, but something tells me that if he ascends to the post, he'll run into trouble trying to get a majority to approve a no-deal exit and will try to get it at all costs. Then once it actually happens, he'll step down because he delivered what he wanted; let someone else deal with the fallout.
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KLDC10
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:49 pm

A motion tabled by the Labour Party designed to give MPs time on 25 June to legislate against prorogation and/or a no deal Brexit has been defeated in the Commons.
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noviorbis77
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Re: British parliament prorogation debate

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:41 pm

It wont happen.

As much as it’ll be great to get us out the wretched EU with no pay off and no deal, it won’t happen.

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