Taco2sDay
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:39 am

Title says it all! I questioned the ATL thread with DTW fan club getting to post negative ATL comments, but it was deleted. Go figure. This forum is the DTW referendum on the world! If you don't like it, you'll get temporarily banned!

Unless you are part of the DTW movement, your right to free speech is not worth a cent here!
 
globalcabotage
Posts: 510
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:47 am

True. Question DTW and you are banned. Forum has turned into a joke!
 
Samrnpage
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:51 am

It has turned into a "I know more than you" or "Your views are wrong, mine are right" forum rather than a place to discuss the world of aviation. It happened when it went to a free forum. People who are dedicated to aviation would pay for it, and would keep threads open and use the search bars rather than the "What if boeing did a 757-2MAX" type thread every 2 months.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:57 am

Yep, because they've got nothing better to do with their time but take sides in your silly ATL-DTW wars.... sheesh!
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:03 am

It's obviously because DTW has more Airbus planes and ATL has more Boeing planes in the Delta system...and the mods are pro-Airbus! ;)

SMDH!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6506
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:19 am

I'm from DTW and I'm embarrassed by the ridiculous posters that rant and rave about DTW and anti-everything else on all the other threads that even remotely involve DL, WW, NK, ATL, ORD, YYZ, MSP, etc.

I've been on this board for 15 years and its really gotten stupid in the past year or so since the site upgrade.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:27 am

Taco2sDay wrote:
Unless you are part of the DTW movement, your right to free speech is not worth a cent here!

I'm not at all interested in any DTW vs. ATL fight, but "your right to free speech" doesn't exist on this or any web forum. You post here and you agree to abide by the forum rules. Your right to free speech only applies to the government (in the United States) trying to limit what you say. On a privately owned forum, there is no "right to free speech". Too many people forget that.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:30 am

Taco2sDay wrote:
Title says it all! I questioned the ATL thread with DTW fan club getting to post negative ATL comments, but it was deleted. Go figure. This forum is the DTW referendum on the world! If you don't like it, you'll get temporarily banned!

Unless you are part of the DTW movement, your right to free speech is not worth a cent here!

You're free to express your opinions on this subject regardless of how ridiculous they are, but it needs to be done in the proper forum. The "Site Related Forum" is for things that are related to the site — your post has nothing to do with civil aviation, so the topic was moved.

We generally just enforce the rules as we see them. I don't particularly care about DTW or ATL, so it really has zero effect on how I moderate. If anything, I've always been partial to ATL as a connecting hub, but you can think what you will. What I do moderate is when people constantly troll, and DTW seems to be of particular affection for people intent on trolling (but more on that in a minute).

Like I said, think what you will, but in the past 24 hours, I've seen accusations of us being biased against Delta, Norwegian, and Air India, for Detroit, and for/against Boeing. We've also been called left wing snowflakes and right wing fascists all in the same day — I'm pretty sure those things are different though. Maybe once you've spent longer than four months on the site, you'll start to realize that our apparent bias all has to equal out at some point, and that these conspiracy theories that we're out to promote some ridiculous agenda are just that...ridiculous.

globalcabotage wrote:
True. Question DTW and you are banned. Forum has turned into a joke!

I have never removed a post questioning DTW, much less banned someone for it. Ever. On the other hand, you and I both know that we've had to remove a lot of posts trolling DTW. There's a big difference between questioning and trolling — I assume you're an adult, so I don't think I'll need to explain it. People who insist on trolling are the ones trying so desperately to turn these forums "into a joke". The rest of us are just trying to keep a productive discussion going, so maybe you should consider a different approach. If you question DTW on-topic and within the framework of the rules, then it'll never be deleted.

Revelation wrote:
Yep, because they've got nothing better to do with their time but take sides in your silly ATL-DTW wars.... sheesh!

:checkmark: x1000

I have a life, and a job, and a family. While I did spend several months plotting ways to promote DTW's agenda through the use of subtle moderation of an internet forum, I recently decided to give that up on favor of literally anything else.
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:42 am

Moose135 wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
Unless you are part of the DTW movement, your right to free speech is not worth a cent here!

I'm not at all interested in any DTW vs. ATL fight, but "your right to free speech" doesn't exist on this or any web forum. You post here and you agree to abide by the forum rules. Your right to free speech only applies to the government (in the United States) trying to limit what you say. On a privately owned forum, there is no "right to free speech". Too many people forget that.

While you are correct, we do respect the ability for people to express their opinions regardless of what that might be. Of course there are caveats. We have rules just like society has laws, but these rules have been created by the community of users over the years. We don't arbitrarily enforce things to silence people, nor have we implemented rules that didn't have the popular support of the community. We regularly solicit input regarding rules and policies. In fact, I just started a topic in this forum two weeks ago soliciting input on a rules update.

Anything contrary to this is conspiracy theorist nonsense. But you're correct, the "right" to free speech is only a given on this site provided you follow the rules. Society doesn't let you pull your pants down and run around a park naked in the name of free speech, and neither do we. 99% of users manage to follow our rules with little or no issue, and are therefore always able to express their opinions without hindrance. It's the 1% who just wants to seem to pull their pants down all the time and cause trouble!
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 227
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:58 am

I can tell all the conspiracy lot that the OP is patently wrong. I reported a post by the member-who-shall-not-be-named (of Detroit thread fame) saying that facts are false and Detroit is the center of the universe, and the mods quickly removed it.
Moral of the story: When you see a post that throws facts into the crapper, just report it.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:01 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
I can tell all the conspiracy lot that the OP is patently wrong. I reported a post by the member-who-shall-not-be-named (of Detroit thread fame) saying that facts are false and Detroit is the center of the universe, and the mods quickly removed it.
Moral of the story: When you see a post that throws facts into the crapper, just report it.

:checkmark:
We have to view the reports, and I've never seen one take longer than about four hours to be reviewed and resolved. We miss stuff, so without reports, there's no guarantee we'll catch it.
 
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OA412
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:59 pm

Moose135 wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
Unless you are part of the DTW movement, your right to free speech is not worth a cent here!

I'm not at all interested in any DTW vs. ATL fight, but "your right to free speech" doesn't exist on this or any web forum. You post here and you agree to abide by the forum rules. Your right to free speech only applies to the government (in the United States) trying to limit what you say. On a privately owned forum, there is no "right to free speech". Too many people forget that.

This is a very important point because it's so often lost on a lot of people. In the US (and I suspect much of the rest of the world where it's relevant) freedom of speech protects you from government curtailment of speech. A private entity does not owe you free speech rights. That doesn't mean it's a particularly good thing to censor opposing viewpoints for "funsies," just that no one's free speech rights are violated when a post is deleted.
atcsundevil wrote:
I have never removed a post questioning DTW, much less banned someone for it. Ever. On the other hand, you and I both know that we've had to remove a lot of posts trolling DTW. There's a big difference between questioning and trolling — I assume you're an adult, so I don't think I'll need to explain it. People who insist on trolling are the ones trying so desperately to turn these forums "into a joke". The rest of us are just trying to keep a productive discussion going, so maybe you should consider a different approach. If you question DTW on-topic and within the framework of the rules, then it'll never be deleted

I'll echo what atcsundevil wrote. I've also never deleted a post or banned a user for questioning DTW. I have, however, deleted posts that were clearly outside the rules and that were obvious attempts at starting a flamewar. Those are not allowed, and I concur that it's those posts that are "turning the forum into a joke," not the posts legimately questiongin a city or airport. Fortunately, the number of adults acting like children on this site is a small minority, but they are the ones bringing the level of discourse down. Period.

I'll also echo that I have far more important things to do than to perpetuate some sort of vendetta against DTW and in favor of ATL, two cities I've never even visited.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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keesje
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:50 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
.. While I did spend several months plotting ways to promote DTW's agenda through the use of subtle moderation of an internet forum..


Aha, caught red handed! :biggrin:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:11 pm

It appears even J D Power supports DTW. The plot thickens.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 227
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:40 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
It appears even J D Power supports DTW. The plot thickens.

I hear Delta is in on it too...
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6506
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:42 am

Can we ban klm617, this guy just doesn't get it and continues to pollute these forums with his non-nonsensical rants.
 
compensateme
Posts: 2146
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:52 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Can we ban klm617, this guy just doesn't get it and continues to pollute these forums with his non-nonsensical rants.


The problem isn't klm617 -- nobody takes him seriously, and rarely does anybody attempt to engage in meaningful banter with him; eventually, he'd go away. Instead, the problem is the core group of posters -- many of which have posted in this thread -- who continually troll him, including regular preemptive postings in threads he wouldn't otherwise participate. Throughout its history, a.net has had its hometown fan boys -- notably a multiyear period in which our resident MIA fanboys started multiple MIA-related topics every single day, and turned nearly every topic -- even something like the Chinese military -- into a MIA-related discussion. In contrast, klm participates primarily in one thread (dedicated to DTW) and may venture into one or two other threads a week -- often after he's been baited.

I've done my part in attempting to keep the DTW thread clean by attempting to flag inappropriate posts, but the moderators choose to let them stand -- posts that are clearly off-topic, flamebait and often contain cheap insults (in other words, multiple TOS violations). Honestly, if the moderators did their job and removed those postings, we wouldn't be dealing with this crap. Part of the problem may be that at least one moderator who has denied my deletion requests (but subsequently deleted my postings asking people to stay on-topic) has been part of the troll group in the past. Personally, I'm amused that people have nothing better to do with their time than to troll the internet.

Long before klm617 arrived to a.net, there was an inherent bias against DTW. I get it -- Detroit isn't a "sexy" place in most people's eyes. One participant in this thread use to start threads asking crap like 'when will AA buy bunch of A380 so DFW can surpass DXB' but knock DTW posters -- again, pre-klm617 -- who pondered if DL would ever start DTW/SNA ('you're lucky DTW is still a hub!'). I guess klm617 spread fuel to the fire.

Ignorance is bliss...
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:15 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

compensateme wrote:

We all need to respect the ability for users to post on this site, provided they're following the rules. We certainly can't ban users without legitimate cause. Some users may feel that particular users are "trolls", and while that may be the case, it's not entirely our place as moderators to judge that if they're basically on topic.

We certainly review every flagged post, but both the blessing and curse of the rolling discussion threads (like the DTW thread) is that "on topic discussion" is a purposely ambiguous term. Those threads allow for a wide range of discussion. It generally makes it easier for us, because we don't need to remove off topic comments very often, but it also keeps most users happy by having a fluid, dynamic discussion.

The only reason I can think of that a moderator might have deleted urges from users to keep the discussion on topic is because it could potentially undermine our position. I don't personally have a problem with it in most cases, but per the rules, those posts coming from a user are technically off topic. Some mods feel that those directives should only come from us, because then it's basically a blanket warning to keep the discussion on topic...obviously a post from a user wouldn't have the same effect.

My only advice is to keep flagging posts that you believe to be truly off topic and unrelated to the theme of the thread, and to avoid provoking the user. Our new site has a foe feature, so you can essentially block users you find annoying. Disengaging from people you deem "trolls" is the only way to combat the behavior, because it's unlikely you can reason with them. If someone is so adamant that their position is reality, then no amount of fact or reason can change their opinion.

I apologize if this isn't the answer you want, but as moderators, it simply isn't for us to judge. Perhaps a head moderator could take action if it's clearly a detriment to the site (I don't know if that's something they'd be willing to do, but you're free to make your case by emailing moderators@airliners.net), but I don't want to overstep my bounds as a moderator and restrict someone's ability to post without proper justification.
 
compensateme
Posts: 2146
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:11 am

Here's an example of an a.net crew member baiting the poster in question (nothing was said about DTW until his posting):

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1380497
jetmatt777 wrote:
Really they should have stopped in DTW. How could DL ignore their best station, DTW would have been the wiser diversion choice.


Not to mention how one particular moderator -- whose shown in the past that he has an axe to grind against DTW b/c of that one poster -- continually deletes postings trying to restore sanity to that thread, but leaves postings that are clearly trolling up.
You're not the CEO; you were a menial aircraft support mechanic intern, and that was four years ago.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:57 am

compensateme wrote:
Here's an example of an a.net crew member baiting the poster in question (nothing was said about DTW until his posting):

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1380497
jetmatt777 wrote:
Really they should have stopped in DTW. How could DL ignore their best station, DTW would have been the wiser diversion choice.


Not to mention how one particular moderator -- whose shown in the past that he has an axe to grind against DTW b/c of that one poster -- continually deletes postings trying to restore sanity to that thread, but leaves postings that are clearly trolling up.


I was just reading that thread, which has totally gone off the rails (as of when I last checked) and turned into an ATL vs. DTW trollbait fest thinking of reporting half the posts on there as being off topic. It is quite sad, though, to see admin participating in the unprofessional behavior.
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A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Moderators support DTW, censor any opposing view

Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:26 am

compensateme wrote:
Here's an example ...


Good catch compensateme.

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