Jetty
Topic Author
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Confusing Forum Partition

Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:02 am

I often notice threads getting moved from one forum to another and looking at the descriptions it doesn't make sense to me most of the time.

There is:

- Civil Aviation, Discussions about factual events happening in the airline and general aviation industries.
- Travel, Polls & Preferences, Opinion-based discussions about aviation. The best, worst, biggest, smallest.
- Non-Aviation, This forum is for topics not related to aviation.

The first thing that's confusing is that 'Civil aviation' is supposedly factual based and 'Travel, Polls & Preferences' opinion-based. But as with any other internetforum most threads are a mix of facts and opinion, and it thus makes an arbitrary differentiation. Looking at the topics this also shows, as lots of opinions can be found in the former and lots of facts in the latter. Then one might think 'travel, polls & preferences' provides some guidance, but many topics that get moved to this forum don't have anything to do with 'travel, polls or preferences'.

The second thing that doesn't make sense is that many aviation-related topics that involve politics in some way get moved to 'Non-Aviation', though the description of that forum says 'this forum is for topics not related to aviation'. Clearly that description doesn't apply to such topics.

I'm not sure what this site is aiming for with the differentiation between forums, but apparently I'm not the only one that can't make sense out of it as even topics posted by senior and intelligent posters regularly get moved from one forum to another. For clarity it might be good to make a less arbitrary differentiation or to provide better guidance in the descriptions.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4726
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:22 pm

I see it as being about topics - civav is about factual topics, which can have opinionated responses, while TPP is intended for opinionated topics, which can have factual responses.

The forums aren't going to change, they've been this way since the dark ages.
 
Jetty
Topic Author
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:17 am

moo wrote:
I see it as being about topics - civav is about factual topics, which can have opinionated responses, while TPP is intended for opinionated topics, which can have factual responses.

I saw it that way as well. But it isn't applied as such, while mods are quite fanatic about moving threads. Just from the most recent 5 topics in each forum.

Civil aviation: "American's Problem: Management is Out of Touch With Customers"
Not factual but clearly an opinion.

Travel, Polls & Preferences: "Smallest US Airports with multiple VIP lounges"
Not an option but clearly factual.

It isn't important obviously, but I wonder with all this randomness why moderators do bother to move threads and what logic they have that many don't seem able to see.
 
User avatar
JohnKrist
Head Support
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:54 pm

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:35 am

Jetty wrote:
Travel, Polls & Preferences: "Smallest US Airports with multiple VIP lounges"
Not an option but clearly factual.


And clearly Travel related
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, 50mm 1.4, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 5588
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:50 am

Jetty wrote:
moo wrote:
I see it as being about topics - civav is about factual topics, which can have opinionated responses, while TPP is intended for opinionated topics, which can have factual responses.

I saw it that way as well. But it isn't applied as such, while mods are quite fanatic about moving threads. Just from the most recent 5 topics in each forum.

Civil aviation: "American's Problem: Management is Out of Touch With Customers"
Not factual but clearly an opinion.

Travel, Polls & Preferences: "Smallest US Airports with multiple VIP lounges"
Not an option but clearly factual.

It isn't important obviously, but I wonder with all this randomness why moderators do bother to move threads and what logic they have that many don't seem able to see.


You are placing an emphasis on opinions and taking it out of context. The Travel, Polls and Preferences forum is for Travel, Polls and Preferences. There are 3 different criteria we look at to determine if a thread belongs in Travel, Polls & Preferences.

1. Travel - is the thread related to travel such as best J seat, lost luggage, question on a certain airlines or route etc
2. Polls - is the thread a poll such as what is your favourite airline, what was the first aircraft you have flown etc.
3. Preferences - AS or DL?, night or day flight etc

If the answer to any of these is yes it belongs in Travel, Polls and Preferences, if the answer is no it belongs elsewhere

In the Civil Aviation forum opinions get discussed in many threads every day. At the top of the forum under Civil Aviation it states

Discussions about factual events happening in the airline and general aviation industries. If it's happening in commercial aviation, you'll get the information and opinions here first.


Just because of an opinion is expressed does not mean it should be moved, for the thread to stay in Civil Aviation it has to be about Civil Aviation. There a lot of threads where questions are asked to get others opinions, its called a discussion. If we were to move topics with opinions as they are not factual do we move threads that are rumours as they are not factual either. We need to draw the line somewhere and I think we have the balance right

In regards to Civil Aviation topics being moved to Non-Aviation. Topics are moved from Civil Aviation to non-aviation when they become political. Forum rules clearly state the only thread for politics is Non-Aviation. Over the past year or so we have seen a big increase in politics in Civil Aviation topics and have needed to take action. We have 2 choices when a topic becomes political of which it is lock it or move it. If the thread is a productive one it should be moved rather than lock it. Most of the users who participate in the Civil Aviation forum are there for aviation not politics so we have tried to keep a hardline on keeping politics out of that forum.

Finally I want to make it clear that the moderators have been working on a rules update for a few months yet. We have not released them yet because we want to get them right. We have added new rules and existing rules have been re written with extra information added to understand them better. The current rules were written sometime ago and are overdue to be overhauled.
Forum Moderator
 
Jetty
Topic Author
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:22 pm

JohnKrist wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Travel, Polls & Preferences: "Smallest US Airports with multiple VIP lounges"
Not an option but clearly factual.


And clearly Travel related

Definitely. So factual based topics about travel using civil aviation belong in that forum?

You are placing an emphasis on opinions and taking it out of context. The Travel, Polls and Preferences forum is for Travel, Polls and Preferences. There are 3 different criteria we look at to determine if a thread belongs in Travel, Polls & Preferences.

1. Travel - is the thread related to travel such as best J seat, lost luggage, question on a certain airlines or route etc
2. Polls - is the thread a poll such as what is your favourite airline, what was the first aircraft you have flown etc.
3. Preferences - AS or DL?, night or day flight etc

If the answer to any of these is yes it belongs in Travel, Polls and Preferences, if the answer is no it belongs elsewhere

In the Civil Aviation forum opinions get discussed in many threads every day. At the top of the forum under Civil Aviation it states

Discussions about factual events happening in the airline and general aviation industries. If it's happening in commercial aviation, you'll get the information and opinions here first.


Just because of an opinion is expressed does not mean it should be moved, for the thread to stay in Civil Aviation it has to be about Civil Aviation. There a lot of threads where questions are asked to get others opinions, its called a discussion. If we were to move topics with opinions as they are not factual do we move threads that are rumours as they are not factual either. We need to draw the line somewhere and I think we have the balance right

Very clear explanation, thanks for that. Given this explanation I'd consider just removing the 'factual events' and 'opinion-based' from the descriptions, as it doesn't add much -if anything- but might be confusing.

The one thing regarding topics that I still can't figure out with this explanation is that a question about a certain airlines or route etc. belongs in the Travel forum, but the opening of a new route i.e. belongs in the Civil aviation forum. An example from today that actually got moved from one to the other: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1383721 It's not like that poster is asking the question because he actually wants to travel that route. He even asks for routes that don't even exist, as such it has less to do with actual travel than new routes opened. The sense that I'm getting is that topics that contain basic or trivial questions often get moved to the Travel forum to maintain the quality the Civil aviation forum. If that's indeed the case it might be an idea to add a forum Basic questions and trivia or something like that, because it's hard to come up with any content-related forum description that filters those topics that might indeed be a nuisance out.

In regards to Civil Aviation topics being moved to Non-Aviation. Topics are moved from Civil Aviation to non-aviation when they become political. Forum rules clearly state the only thread for politics is Non-Aviation. Over the past year or so we have seen a big increase in politics in Civil Aviation topics and have needed to take action. We have 2 choices when a topic becomes political of which it is lock it or move it. If the thread is a productive one it should be moved rather than lock it. Most of the users who participate in the Civil Aviation forum are there for aviation not politics so we have tried to keep a hardline on keeping politics out of that forum.

The reasons for doing so definitely make sense. But looking at the perspective of a new user the Civil aviation forum might be the automatic choice to place such a topic as the forum where it actually belongs mentions This forum is for topics not related to aviation.

Finally I want to make it clear that the moderators have been working on a rules update for a few months yet. We have not released them yet because we want to get them right. We have added new rules and existing rules have been re written with extra information added to understand them better. The current rules were written sometime ago and are overdue to be overhauled.

:thumbsup:
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 738
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:05 am

I'm really surprised that the thread about Delta and their changes to the emotional support animal policy has been moved to Polls. It's a major news story and I didn't see it in civav and just assumed there wasn't a thread.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2641
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Confusing Forum Partition

Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:16 am

luv2cattlecall wrote:
I'm really surprised that the thread about Delta and their changes to the emotional support animal policy has been moved to Polls. It's a major news story and I didn't see it in civav and just assumed there wasn't a thread.

It was moved to Travel, which is the same forum as polls and preferences. It's a travel related subject, so it's more appropriately placed in that forum.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos