berari
Topic Author
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Deleting of posts by moderators

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:59 pm

I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.

The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.

Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why

Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.

With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15414
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:23 pm

berari wrote:
I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.

The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.

Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why

Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.

With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.


AFAIK, the lack of notification has been the situation since the site was upgraded. I think it's pretty poor that members can have posts deleted without being aware of the reason. Yes, if you only post once or twice a week you might be able to email the mods and ask why, but if you're active in lots of threads you might not even notice that posts of yours have been deleted.

I find it pretty frustrating.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
berari
Topic Author
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:08 pm

Frustrating is the word. The purpose of a forum is to keep users engaged and contributing to discussions.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:18 pm

Hi folks. I'll be upfront and admit that I share your frustration. We've not been able to send deletion emails since the site upgrade. That was a feature unique to the old site. I know that we are working on deletion emails, but nothing has yet been finalized. In the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact us at moderators@airliners.net if you think your post was deleted even though it was within forum guidelines. It's often true that posts are deleted because they were quoting a post that has been deleted (and this was true of the old site as well). But again, I apologize. I very much wish we still had the ability to send out an email explaining our decision whenever we delete a post.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:40 pm

berari wrote:
I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.

The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.

Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why

Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.

With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.

More often than not, posts are deleted because of reference quotes. If your post references a post which did break the rules, we have to remove yours too. We aren't permitted to edit the deleted portion from your post per our policies. I would support a provision that allows us to only remove the quoted text from a referenced post, but I don't know how much support that would have. As OA412 mentioned, you can always email us to ask. We're happy to provide an explanation for any deletion. I wish we still had automatic notifications, and supposedly it's something being worked on, but it's outside of our control. Manually notifying users every time we make a deletion would be extremely time consuming, so it's not really an option right now. I understand it's frustrating — I completely agree — but unfortunately there just isn't much that we as moderators can do about it.

scbriml wrote:
AFAIK, the lack of notification has been the situation since the site was upgraded. I think it's pretty poor that members can have posts deleted without being aware of the reason. Yes, if you only post once or twice a week you might be able to email the mods and ask why, but if you're active in lots of threads you might not even notice that posts of yours have been deleted.

I find it pretty frustrating.

I completely agree with you, and I wish there was something we could do about it. Manual notifications would be very tedious and time consuming for us to deal with on an individual basis, because there just aren't enough of us to keep up. We've been asking the developers to bring back the notifications for quite some time...I believe the discussion and our notification templates were sent to them late last summer. Unfortunately, we're at their mercy just as users are. Trust me, we want the notifications back as badly as you do, because we get a lot of angry emails and PMs that would otherwise be explained by an automatic system. In the mean time, we'll keep pushing them, but the only realistic option we have is to wait until users enquire.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15414
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:35 pm

I have to ask, is this something that's completely absent from the PHP forum software, or is it an option that hasn't been turned on yet?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 5264
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:05 am

scbriml wrote:
I have to ask, is this something that's completely absent from the PHP forum software, or is it an option that hasn't been turned on yet?


To be honest I wouldn’t know however but judging in how long it is taken I would assume it’s not part of the forum software. The deletion notifications were not transferred over from the old site and we had to start from scratch. I had a copy of one of the old deletion notifications so when I wrote the rest I based it on that. They were then run by the rest of the mods then submitted to the developers. They did come back and ask if one generic notification would be better but we were not in favour of that as each deletion notification highlighted the specific rule violations. As both OA412 and atcsundevil have said we are as frustrated as what the users are, when we make a deletion most users would firstly like to know why it was deleted and secondly if they have made an error to learn from it. As mentioned all we can suggest is if a post is deleted and you want to know why just send as an email. We try and discourage users sending us pm’s regarding moderating issues as it’s much easier via email as everyone is aware of it however if they do we either send an email out so everyone is aware or we make a note on the system to refer to in the future
Forum Moderator
 
Nami
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:47 pm

I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.

Last week I made a new thread in the Civil Aviation subsection of the forum about Air China's PEK-CPH route launch. It included links to CPH airport's website and Routesonline's listing, which was also placed in a quote. I don't see how that could have been against any rules, Routesonline material is often used on this site. The thread was deleted quite quickly.

I would like to inquire what was the reason for the deletion. I have two questions:

a) Was the launch considered too "insignificant" to warrant its own thread?
b) If the notification system is not working, why was the thread deleted outright instead of being locked with an explanation given in the last message?
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:47 am

Nami wrote:
I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.

Last week I made a new thread in the Civil Aviation subsection of the forum about Air China's PEK-CPH route launch. It included links to CPH airport's website and Routesonline's listing, which was also placed in a quote. I don't see how that could have been against any rules, Routesonline material is often used on this site. The thread was deleted quite quickly.

I would like to inquire what was the reason for the deletion. I have two questions:

a) Was the launch considered too "insignificant" to warrant its own thread?
b) If the notification system is not working, why was the thread deleted outright instead of being locked with an explanation given in the last message?

I've looked through, and I can't find your thread, nor any record of a deletion of your thread. There should be a history of it somewhere, so perhaps it failed to post? Maybe I'm just not seeing it and another Moderator can find it, but the only thing I see related to that was your post in the Nordic thread. Because I can't find it, I unfortunately don't have an answer for you, but it would appear that your thread doesn't exist, nor was there any Moderator action taken against any of your posts or threads.

That said, the most common reason for deletion of threads is because of copyright violations. It's fine that you quoted and sourced it, but if you used anything more than a fair use quote, then it may have been found to be in violation. If your post was guilty of this (I'm not saying it is, just a hypothetical), then we have no choice but to delete it. We can't allow images or quotes which violate copyright laws to stay up for obvious reasons.

The only time we lock threads with an explanation message is if it's a duplicate thread. We don't discuss deletions in an open forum, so if you have questions about a deletion, please email us at moderators@airliners.net.
 
Ozair
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:53 am

Nami wrote:
I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.

I have a similar question.

In MilAv the USAF light attack OA-X thread has disappeared, I assume deleted. Why did this happen?
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:54 pm

Ozair wrote:
Nami wrote:
I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.

I have a similar question.

In MilAv the USAF light attack OA-X thread has disappeared, I assume deleted. Why did this happen?

Are you talking about this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1353113

It wasn't deleted, it was locked. The thread was inactive for nearly a year when a user bumped the thread two days ago. We consider threads to be dormant when they're inactive for longer than six months (the old site automatically locked old topics, so the result is the same).

If you'd like to restart discussion, you're more than welcome to create a new topic, and you can use a link to the old topic as reference.
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:34 am

scbriml wrote:
berari wrote:
I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.

The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.

Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why

Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.

With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.


AFAIK, the lack of notification has been the situation since the site was upgraded. I think it's pretty poor that members can have posts deleted without being aware of the reason. Yes, if you only post once or twice a week you might be able to email the mods and ask why, but if you're active in lots of threads you might not even notice that posts of yours have been deleted.

I find it pretty frustrating.


Just need to share this sentiment.

And why I understand all the moderators technical explanation, it is simply a very poor process, disrespectful to the contributors of this site and, I hate saying it, borderline censorship.

It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.

Edit for adding a thought: And before the answer is "but you agreed to the forums rules"...I know that. But more often than not people are not following the plethora of rules because they simply don't know. Not because if ill intentions. There are far better ways of addressing that, e.g. by noting the discrepancy to the rules and give 6hrs to correct that, rather than deleting without notification.
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
Deception justified for your holy design
High on our platform spewing out your crimes
from the altar of god
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:09 am

So, none of the moderators found the time to reply here, but selective and inconsequent deletion of posts is as effective as it can be.
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
Deception justified for your holy design
High on our platform spewing out your crimes
from the altar of god
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:46 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
So, none of the moderators found the time to reply here, but selective and inconsequent deletion of posts is as effective as it can be.

There aren't many of us, and we do have lives with careers and families, so sometimes we need more than just a few hours to see your posts and reply to them. I volunteer a huge amount of my time to this site, but it'll never be enough time to read every post in every thread.

Nicoeddf wrote:
And why I understand all the moderators technical explanation, it is simply a very poor process, disrespectful to the contributors of this site and, I hate saying it, borderline censorship.

I'm not sure I follow your logic — it's not censorship if users are notified, but it's borderline censorship if they aren't? Censorship would be purposely restricting a user's ability to speak freely within the rules (which we have no interest in doing), so I'm confused as to how notification or lack thereof would somehow alter that.

That aside, I empathize with the frustration of many users, but there isn't much that we can do about it. We don't have any say in what the developers work on, we can only request that certain things are done. We've been asking for a return of automated notifications for a year and a half. So in light of that, what do you propose we do to fix the process? I message some users when I can when making deletions, but there's no way I could do it for every one. We just don't have the time. We're doing what we can do keep the forums civilized and organized. We can't just choose to not delete things because we don't have time to message everyone — if we did that, users would be far more upset.

Nicoeddf wrote:
It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.

And this is why we don't have time to send out manual notifications to everyone.
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:44 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
So, none of the moderators found the time to reply here, but selective and inconsequent deletion of posts is as effective as it can be.

There aren't many of us, and we do have lives with careers and families, so sometimes we need more than just a few hours to see your posts and reply to them. I volunteer a huge amount of my time to this site, but it'll never be enough time to read every post in every thread.

Nicoeddf wrote:
And why I understand all the moderators technical explanation, it is simply a very poor process, disrespectful to the contributors of this site and, I hate saying it, borderline censorship.

I'm not sure I follow your logic — it's not censorship if users are notified, but it's borderline censorship if they aren't? Censorship would be purposely restricting a user's ability to speak freely within the rules (which we have no interest in doing), so I'm confused as to how notification or lack thereof would somehow alter that.

That aside, I empathize with the frustration of many users, but there isn't much that we can do about it. We don't have any say in what the developers work on, we can only request that certain things are done. We've been asking for a return of automated notifications for a year and a half. So in light of that, what do you propose we do to fix the process? I message some users when I can when making deletions, but there's no way I could do it for every one. We just don't have the time. We're doing what we can do keep the forums civilized and organized. We can't just choose to not delete things because we don't have time to message everyone — if we did that, users would be far more upset.

Nicoeddf wrote:
It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.

And this is why we don't have time to send out manual notifications to everyone.


First of all, thank you atcsundevil, for replying. Much appreciated.

I know you and the other moderators are using your free time for doing the moderators job. And while I principally appreciate that effort, that doesn't free you or other members of the team from being criticized (or praised for that matter) for your actions.

Regarding my logic, which might have been poorly worded, sorry for that: Yes indeed, I find it a world of a difference if I receive a message telling me that my post was deleted for this or that reason within the rule framework of the site I chose to participate in, rather than clicking on a.net in anticipation of a discussion, just to find, yet again, mine or others posts have been deleted, without explanation.
In my world, the former is necessary hygiene of an internet platform, while the latter is borderline censorship.
I feel that way, because deleting without explanation leaves at least a "bad taste in the mouth" as we would say in my mother tongue, if the content of the post was simply undesirable, or if it was actually against any of the rules.
Hope that makes my logic more clear.

And I admit, part of my frustration stems from the very immature handling of things from one of your team, as in receiving a "board warning" for writing "crew fuck ups" in a totally non-swearing context. And then receiving a ban in pointing that out in one of the threads. Scared of scrutiny? And why then escalate it in the first place. Just write me a message saying: "please, just replace fuck ups with mishaps...would be technically against the rules otherwise" and put a ;) behind it. --> solved.

Ah well...
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
Deception justified for your holy design
High on our platform spewing out your crimes
from the altar of god
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 799
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: Deleting of posts by moderators

Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:45 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:

Nicoeddf wrote:
It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.

And this is why we don't have time to send out manual notifications to everyone.


Yes, but in my world the solution is not deletion. But improving the atmosphere. Win-Win...
Enslave yourself to the divine disguised as salvation
that your bought with your sacrifice
Deception justified for your holy design
High on our platform spewing out your crimes
from the altar of god

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos