Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
berari wrote:I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.
The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.
Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why
Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.
With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.
berari wrote:I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.
The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.
Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why
Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.
With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.
scbriml wrote:AFAIK, the lack of notification has been the situation since the site was upgraded. I think it's pretty poor that members can have posts deleted without being aware of the reason. Yes, if you only post once or twice a week you might be able to email the mods and ask why, but if you're active in lots of threads you might not even notice that posts of yours have been deleted.
I find it pretty frustrating.
scbriml wrote:I have to ask, is this something that's completely absent from the PHP forum software, or is it an option that hasn't been turned on yet?
Nami wrote:I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.
Last week I made a new thread in the Civil Aviation subsection of the forum about Air China's PEK-CPH route launch. It included links to CPH airport's website and Routesonline's listing, which was also placed in a quote. I don't see how that could have been against any rules, Routesonline material is often used on this site. The thread was deleted quite quickly.
I would like to inquire what was the reason for the deletion. I have two questions:
a) Was the launch considered too "insignificant" to warrant its own thread?
b) If the notification system is not working, why was the thread deleted outright instead of being locked with an explanation given in the last message?
Nami wrote:I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.
Ozair wrote:Nami wrote:I'm going to put my own questions here instead of creating a new topic.
I have a similar question.
In MilAv the USAF light attack OA-X thread has disappeared, I assume deleted. Why did this happen?
scbriml wrote:berari wrote:I understand that the moderators need to keep the forums within the guidelines that a.net has in place. But as of late I have noticed that a couple of my posts have been deleted and I can't recall any content that could have been misconstrued. There are valuable, rich conversations that are occurring and we lose posts with no explanation.
The tough part is that while messages are deleted, we as users do not know which reply of ours was deleted. We can't learn form our "mistakes" if you will, for the messages simply disappear and we are left with a gap in a thread.
Can a.net update/or mods do this:
- Notify us with the deleted thread's contents and reason why it was deleted
- Update it so that they either cross out or redact the offensive parts, if that's the reason why
Nowadays I don't know who's going to be offended by what anymore, if one is to profess his love for Boeing, the Airbus clan gets offended and reports a post, and vice versa.
With an approach to simply delete messages and not providing feedback, the quality and user experience on this site is going down the drain.
AFAIK, the lack of notification has been the situation since the site was upgraded. I think it's pretty poor that members can have posts deleted without being aware of the reason. Yes, if you only post once or twice a week you might be able to email the mods and ask why, but if you're active in lots of threads you might not even notice that posts of yours have been deleted.
I find it pretty frustrating.
Nicoeddf wrote:So, none of the moderators found the time to reply here, but selective and inconsequent deletion of posts is as effective as it can be.
Nicoeddf wrote:And why I understand all the moderators technical explanation, it is simply a very poor process, disrespectful to the contributors of this site and, I hate saying it, borderline censorship.
Nicoeddf wrote:It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.
atcsundevil wrote:Nicoeddf wrote:So, none of the moderators found the time to reply here, but selective and inconsequent deletion of posts is as effective as it can be.
There aren't many of us, and we do have lives with careers and families, so sometimes we need more than just a few hours to see your posts and reply to them. I volunteer a huge amount of my time to this site, but it'll never be enough time to read every post in every thread.Nicoeddf wrote:And why I understand all the moderators technical explanation, it is simply a very poor process, disrespectful to the contributors of this site and, I hate saying it, borderline censorship.
I'm not sure I follow your logic — it's not censorship if users are notified, but it's borderline censorship if they aren't? Censorship would be purposely restricting a user's ability to speak freely within the rules (which we have no interest in doing), so I'm confused as to how notification or lack thereof would somehow alter that.
That aside, I empathize with the frustration of many users, but there isn't much that we can do about it. We don't have any say in what the developers work on, we can only request that certain things are done. We've been asking for a return of automated notifications for a year and a half. So in light of that, what do you propose we do to fix the process? I message some users when I can when making deletions, but there's no way I could do it for every one. We just don't have the time. We're doing what we can do keep the forums civilized and organized. We can't just choose to not delete things because we don't have time to message everyone — if we did that, users would be far more upset.Nicoeddf wrote:It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.
And this is why we don't have time to send out manual notifications to everyone.
atcsundevil wrote:Nicoeddf wrote:Nicoeddf wrote:It creates an atmosphere where you'd need to think twice of taking the time to contribute on a high quality base. Or simply put out snippy comments.
And this is why we don't have time to send out manual notifications to everyone.
Nami wrote:I'm going to post here again as the same just happened to my thread as in message #8.
I made a thread with the title: "TG plans to make an order of 13 widebody and 10 narrowbody aircraft within this year" (screenshot, in case you don't have any record of the thread this time either).
Under 10 minutes later, it's gone. Puff. With no explanation given. I used the search function in advance but failed to find any recent threads regarding the same thing. It's especially odd considering the news the thread was based on was released today. If there is an older thread discussing the topic, why was the thread simply not locked and a link to the thread where discussion should be continued added?
Or are we not allowed to quote Reuters articles?
atcsundevil wrote:I wasn't the moderator involved here, but here's my take..
4. Thread starting posts MUST contain your own commentary, as well as sources (quotes are optional, but recommended) if applicable.
5. Thread starters which only contain links and/or quotes with limited or no commentary will be deleted.
ronitkadam777 wrote:United chooses BOM as its next 77W destination from EWR.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... er-mumbai/
JetBlue will order 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, for delivery beginning 2020, replacing the Embraer 190 fleet.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=55200
Nami wrote:atcsundevil wrote:I wasn't the moderator involved here, but here's my take..
Thank you for your reply. I already received a PM from another moderator and he or she said more or less the same thing in a more concise way. I originally planned to quote only a paragraph or two of the article but as it was a relatively short one with relevant information I made the mistake of quoting too much of it. That's my mistake and I now understand the reason for deletion.
Like you mentioned, the rules of this site state this:4. Thread starting posts MUST contain your own commentary, as well as sources (quotes are optional, but recommended) if applicable.
5. Thread starters which only contain links and/or quotes with limited or no commentary will be deleted.
However it seems that there is a clear lack of consensus between moderators on how strongly these rules should be applied. Just on the first page of Civil Aviation subforum it's easy to find numerous threads where the opening posts include no original commentary whatsoever.
For example how is the opening post quoted below acceptable under the rules?ronitkadam777 wrote:United chooses BOM as its next 77W destination from EWR.
https://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com ... er-mumbai/
Even perhaps the most discussed thread of the last 24 hours has no own commentary:JetBlue will order 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft, for delivery beginning 2020, replacing the Embraer 190 fleet.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=55200
I believe both of these examples fall under "limited or no commentary" and should therefore be deleted if the "5." is enforced as it's written. So what is the logic behind that these threads have not been deleted as they fail to include any own commentary? Apparently had I quoted only a paragraph of the article and included a platitude of one or two words such as "Any thoughts?" (often the only own words in some threads) that would have spared my thread? Did I understand this correctly? Or would my thread have survived had I done like the above examples and added more or less the same information as the thread title in the OP and a link? But then again this would be contradictory with "5.". I hope I'm not coming off as rude - I just want to know the logic of this forum.
While I understand why my thread disappeared, all I hope is that everyone and every post would be treated equally and not in an arbitrary manner. Or simply that "5." will be rephrased as it's clearly not followed in a consistent manner.
atcsundevil wrote:We aren't permitted to edit the deleted portion from your post per our policies.
vikkyvik wrote:atcsundevil wrote:We aren't permitted to edit the deleted portion from your post per our policies.
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, or just plain wrong, but I would swear that the deletion policy was already changed to exactly this several years ago, due to member complaints about posts being deleted.
That is, I thought that the mods were specifically allowed to delete portions of posts that quote deleted posts.
atcsundevil wrote:vikkyvik wrote:atcsundevil wrote:We aren't permitted to edit the deleted portion from your post per our policies.
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, or just plain wrong, but I would swear that the deletion policy was already changed to exactly this several years ago, due to member complaints about posts being deleted.
That is, I thought that the mods were specifically allowed to delete portions of posts that quote deleted posts.
This hasn't been the case for as long as I've been a moderator, although I would be in favor of the idea. I think most people would, because it would save us from deleting a lot of referenced posts.
scbriml wrote:So, is there any chance of getting a reply from Vertical Scope on this.
Will email notification of post deletions be activated/reinstated?
It is so frustrating to not be aware of deleted posts. I find it very hard to believe that one of the most popular, off-the-shelf systems doesn't have this option.
scbriml wrote:So, is there any chance of getting a reply from Vertical Scope on this.
Will email notification of post deletions be activated/reinstated?
It is so frustrating to not be aware of deleted posts. I find it very hard to believe that one of the most popular, off-the-shelf systems doesn't have this option.
atcsundevil wrote:scbriml wrote:So, is there any chance of getting a reply from Vertical Scope on this.
Will email notification of post deletions be activated/reinstated?
It is so frustrating to not be aware of deleted posts. I find it very hard to believe that one of the most popular, off-the-shelf systems doesn't have this option.
Sorry...it's not like we (the mods) aren't hearing you, because we are. We've practically been begging for deletion notifications for the better part of two years. We thought we were about to get them around September of last year, but obviously we didn't. We want the notifications back just as badly as you do, because ultimately it creates more work for us when people get understandably upset when their posts go missing without explanation. Usually it's for something totally explainable like a referenced post deletion, but that doesn't make most users any less angry. We don't have the time to be able to send out notifications manually and still make the necessary deletions, so without automated notifications, there isn't much we can do from our end. It just seems that it's not high enough on the priority list.
scbriml wrote:atcsundevil wrote:scbriml wrote:So, is there any chance of getting a reply from Vertical Scope on this.
Will email notification of post deletions be activated/reinstated?
It is so frustrating to not be aware of deleted posts. I find it very hard to believe that one of the most popular, off-the-shelf systems doesn't have this option.
Sorry...it's not like we (the mods) aren't hearing you, because we are. We've practically been begging for deletion notifications for the better part of two years. We thought we were about to get them around September of last year, but obviously we didn't. We want the notifications back just as badly as you do, because ultimately it creates more work for us when people get understandably upset when their posts go missing without explanation. Usually it's for something totally explainable like a referenced post deletion, but that doesn't make most users any less angry. We don't have the time to be able to send out notifications manually and still make the necessary deletions, so without automated notifications, there isn't much we can do from our end. It just seems that it's not high enough on the priority list.
Thanks for the update, but it would be nice to get some news from Vertical Scope.
atcsundevil wrote:At least we finally got HTTPS