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Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Mon Aug 06, 2001 6:59 pm

I just found out that the lane numbers of Egypt Air and Lauda Air B763s that crashed were 282 and 283...

I know there are still discussions about the cause of the Egypt Air crash and some time after the crash I heard a rumour that said that again the thrust reverser caused the Egypt crash, just like Lauda's some years ago.
Well, both aircraft stood next to each other on the production lane and both had been equipped with exactly the same PW 4000 engines. Who knows?

I don't want to claim that it happened again, but I'm just wondering now. One question: if it really happened again, what would have been the chance of informing the public about it?
Boeing, PW and Egypt Air would have been interested not to let it out...

Of course, you might say the problem had been fixed after the Lauda crash, but I remember a SAS B763 incident with the thrust reverser long before the Lauda crash and after that also everybody thought it had been fixed...until the Mozart crashed into a jungle...

And still remember, the probable cause of the MS crash has always been quite strange...first it was suicide, then it was a flap problem...now it's suicide again...I don't believe anything now and still wonder if it might have been the thrust reverser again...

Any ideas, comments?

Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:35 pm

This coincidence appeared a couple of days after the MS crash, but was forgotten soon. I think, if media - specially form Egypt - would really have had a reason to follow this connection, we would know more about it.

But I second your opinion, that the cause of the crash is still not 100% sure (in my opinon, I don't have any evidences).

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Mon Aug 06, 2001 9:52 pm

The 767, with the exception of the high-profile Lauda crash which forced a redesign of the affected thrust reversers, has an exemplary safety record, and going through all the debris of Egyptair, not a single thing could be found to have gone wrong with the plane itself. The only reason that the FAA haven't formally came out and said "The co-pilot did it. Case closed." is political.

The FAA have never balked at pointing the finger squarely at Boeing if they feel something is wrong - look at the recent fuel tank issue - potentially very embarassing and costly to Boeing.

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Tue Aug 07, 2001 2:10 am

I thinkk the fdr would record something like a TR deployment commanded or not so i dont think it is a possibility
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:42 pm

I remember that the FDR showed a TR reverse didn't occur in the case of Egyptair......it was originally suspected because the the aircraft had reported TR problems on the incoming flight....as far as I remember, the TR on one of the engines was disabled......the suspicion was then that the wrong TR had been inhibited, or that the disabling pin had sheared, as had occurred before on 767 aircraft......I think they conclusively showed the TR hadn't been an issue on the MSR 763....
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:10 pm

There have been other problems with the horizontal stab on the 767. An AA flight to Paris had a serious control problem and vertical control was maintained just using trim. An SAS flight took off from Singapore and had to return for the same reason.

I'm not saying the Egyptair crash wasn't also caused by bad handling, but I doubt very much it was intentional. The copilot saying "Oh my god" a couple of times does not a suicide message make. I bet the pilot on DL191 said something very similar, but he wasn't a Muslim.

Political? You bet.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:37 am

But there was much more than just a couple of "Oh my god"...
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:35 am

Shutting off both engine fuel controls, disconnecting the autpilot, putting the plane into a dive, and then fighting the Captain during the recovery. Ok, maybe there was a mechanical problem, I just see absloutely no evidence of it.
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RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:51 am

If the reverser deployed, the aircraft would have broken up in mid air. Actually, torn apart from the asymetric forces and g loads. If deployment occured, I think this would have been evident from the FDR, CVR, and debris field. The Air Lauda 767 had a violent break-up over a Thai jungle. I don't believe this happened to Egpyt Air.

Cedarjet: I believe the translation of the Egpyt Air co-pilot's words was: "I put my fate in God's hands", or something like that. And it was said numerous times. I also remember reading that the FDR indicated the left (captain's) control column pulling up, while the right was pushing down ... and the CVR recorded the captain saying: "pull with me, pull with me".

I too find the suicide theory very hard to swallow. But let's face it, there is certainly evidence that points in that direction. This would not have been the first time a pilot committed suicide, taking his passengers with him.

FYI: the last words of the Delta 191 crew were: "Oh shit ... oh shit!" And I don't think religion is an issue here.

RE: Connection Egypt-Lauda 767 Cashs?

Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:05 am

I can tell you this,on the site (am i going down) if you put in a 767-300 on any flight, with any airline, going to any dest.your chances are better than any other aircraft! So they must be pretty safe!