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A380 Orders

Mon Aug 06, 2001 11:04 pm

If you look at the latest A380 order book :

Since that page was produced, Singapore has firmed up its letter of intent, making the total of 48 firm orders, plus 37 options and 23 LOIs.

Does anyone know what was the actual selling price for these planes? I heard last year that they were offering it for about $150 million per copy (which is lower than the price of a basic 777-200, empty with no options).

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
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RE: A380 Orders

Mon Aug 06, 2001 11:23 pm

Ther has been a discussion on A380 orders going on at the yahoo orders forum.
48 seems to be the figure, and as for price, I think the launch customers will have recieved a very big discount.

Obviously however big discounts like these can't last.

Infact while I can't wait to see one in the air, the whole project, the way it is being financed, the huge discounts, and the buisness risk, just don't make sense to me!

It's almost like we are going to build it and see if we can make money later.

The risk to the future of Airbus is huge, and I for one think the 10billion would be better spent on a 300/310 replacement, and a major upgrade of the 320 family, and an even heavier 330.

If they are trying to knock Boeing from their perch, then this would hurt Boeing more than the 380.

Just my thoughts
John S.

RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:38 am

I agree the 380 will be another concord doesn't make any sense.Airbus could ruin themselves.
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:38 am

I must say that I disagree with the last post. The A380 will be a sucess. People were skepticle about the 747 when Boeing started and that turned out great. The truth is that more people are flying nowadays and the 747's will need to be replaced. Right now companies like Air France and Virgin are setting the standard for future Atlantic flights with their orders for the A380. No doubt that companies like Lufthansa and Brittish airways will need to match them. Would you fly a brand new spacious A380 or an old cramped 747? The choice is pretty obvious. The A380 will be especially succesful in Asia where the population will easily support these planes. I personally am much more worried about the Sonic cruiser project that Boeing has started because it will make flying more expensive when everyone wants to fly cheaper.
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:57 am

People will fly with whoever provides them with:
(In the most likely order as I would see it)
A. Cheapest Fair
B. Most Convenient Schedule
C. Service
D? Aircraft (Notice the ?)

The type of aircraft, with the exception of the Concorde, is not going to be a deciding factor for most travelers. Sure some people on this forum will try to fly on a different aircraft every time but 99% of the public don't place great importance on the aircraft. The A380 will be just another aircraft moving people around the globe. It isn't going to be a flying palace or flying Waldorf Astoria. If anyone really believes what Airbus says about the aircraft containing gyms, casinos, hot tubs, fast food restaurants, then they need to stop dreaming. Sure we might see beds and maybe showers but I would bet most airlines will fill those behemoths with as many seats as they can get away with. I am not saying the A380 won't be successful, that is up to the future and markets to decide. What I am saying is that the A380 will NOT make most people choose one airline over another.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:40 am

My personal opinion is that the 380 will be a masterpiece for the flying public. Airbus hasn't let us down on the quality and flyability of aircraft in a long time. On the other hand, I seriously doubt Airbus will make any serious money on this plane. Once the major carriers have filled their orders for the super prime hub routes what's left? In addition, the current downward cycle will make every potential new 380 customer think very long and hard whether they can fill this plane day after day, year after year. Last week three Asian airlines put seven 744s up for sale! It begs the question, where has that unstoppable Asian passenger growth gone? The truth is that when times get hard the airlines need to shed capacity and the 380 is the very definition of the word "capacity". In addition, Airbus will soon need to start charging profitable prices for the 380 or their newly minted shareholders will go beserk. The good 'ol pressure-free days are over. A profitable price for the 380 has to be $190-200M at an absolute minimum and it will be very difficult to find customers at these prices when we all know the deals that SIA and QF got. I would bet that, so far, all cumulative sales of the 380 will just barely finance the interest charges on the "commercial" loans. And unlike the 330/340 programs, Airbus will have to pay these loans back or get hauled before the WTO. The EU has given every assurance that these loans are on commercial terms and Airbus will be under a microscope on this.
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 2:30 pm

Yeah it may be Airbus founders on the rocks with the A380, or Boeing and the SC might,or both, or neither. Who knows. It's all up in the air, no pun intended.

What does seem the case, at least from a snapshot taken today anyway, is that the Cunard-liner-esque Belugabus 380s are gonna be produced and tried out and--short of any unforeseen technical problems that is--will for a short while after introduction have some cachet just because of their newness and a bunch of airlines will take to the skies with 'em, particularly on Transatlantic and Singapore-Airlines type overseas runs. This'll give the participating carriers a few years to gauge the economics, reliability, and customer satisfaction of the whole thing. And after which time it'll have to 'fly for itself', again no pun intended.

A lot more about it, from an economics-justification perspective, it doesn't seem possible to say, at this point!
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 pm

Regarding the gym, fast food outlet, coctail bar etc, I couldn't agree more. Some airlines may introduce it as a gimmick,but it won't last.

In fact the A380 could feel quite claustraphobic if jammed full of people.

It is wider than the 747 in the lower deck and narrower in the upper deck. A lot depends upon roofline height and I have not seen any figures for that yet. Can anyone help?

John S.
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:12 pm


Airbus have conducted surveys of the cabin's interior details with thousands of people from different cultures in order to optimize it's layout - so I find it rather unlikely it's going to be claustrophobic.

If you look at the model setup they have on their website for 555 people, you'll see that the upper deck is meant to have 2-4-2 Economy and 2-2-2 Business seating. This cabin is 2cm narrower than on a 777, so the layout is far roomier than on that plane. In this config, Business class on the 380 will be seat-width-wise roughly equivanelt to First class on the 777. The idea is for every seat to have its own armrest in Economy, for instance. Little additions like this to a traditionally cramped class of service are important.

Of course, having said that the actual configuration of the plane is up to the airlines and if they want to screw up a plane, they can do so regardless of its type. However, if we equalize the costs then an equal-cost (for the airline) seat on a 180 will have _much_ more space than other planes, and a seat that costs the projected 18% less than on a 744 will still have enough more space fot that to be a competitive advantage to the airline flying 380s.

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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:54 pm


Are you saying that you wouldn’t mind flying an A330 over a B757. C’mon, be honest. There are definitely more than 1% of people that choose to fly an airline that operates their preferred aircraft, unless there is a significant price differential.

Why do you think Airbus advertises themselves in the Flight International Magazine, quoting “There is no middle seat in the business class”,…so that a businessman buys an A340,…well more realistically, advertising is there so that this particular businessman chooses to fly an airline that operates an A340.

I know of a lot of people who have no clue about aviation industry, but a surprising number of them are aware that a new super jumbo is brewing up somewhere and that it will change the air travel, etc. Believe it or not, if they have a chance to fly an A380 one day over something old fashioned (for the same price, or even better), of course they will fly it, common sense.

As for the success of the A380, it is anyone guess. However one has to keep in mind that today’s success is based on costs, whether its operating or maintenance, it does not matter. So far Airbus claims that A380 will have the lowest cost per seat/mile, while it is also very likely that it will be built with many components sharing the blood of the A330/340 family. The freighter will also be capable of carrying 35 tonnes more cargo and flying over 1000 n.m. further than today’s leader.

In my opinion, A380’s success is definitely not guaranteed, however looking at it from an economic point of view, I would say that it stands a good chance of making it to the sky...
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:53 pm

If a Narrowbody was the aircraft on a flight that fit my time schedule, then Yes, I would choose it over a widebody. Not everyone can afford the extra time and/or money to choose a specific flight just because it’s a widebody. Last year when I was planning a trip, I wanted to fly IAH-LAX on Continental. @ the time, they flew a 777 to LAX that departed IAH @ 1:35. However, this ticket was over $150 more than the earlier and later flights. Now some people can afford to spend more money just to fly a 777/A340 but not everyone.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
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RE: A380 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2001 10:50 pm


Typically, of course, it will cost less to fly a 380 than other kind of plane.

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RE: A380 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:35 am

How do you measure the success of an aircraft program?

IMHO it must be it's economic success, because anyone can sell airplanes if they are cheap enough!

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