wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 3:48 am

Here is the deal: Im not going to say much, the title is my opinion of it, here are a few sparce details i would like to add, and I just want to see what others think:

DELTA-Defently not a first rate world carrier, poor if any inflight service, sky-hags with hgih seniorty #s and AARP discounts on international flights

KoreanAir-Geeze does SAFETY come up here

CSA Czec Air- Eastern European Crap, Makes LOT look like Virgin Atlantic


AirFrance- Hey at least there is one good carrier in the group.

What botherd me was how much the word SkyTeam was emphasized on AirFrance and even AirLiberte

Everything was Air France Member of SkyTeam

Anytime the word air france was mentioned that was tagged on.. Not something to brag about IMHO

When I flew UAL back, defently the best ocean crossing I had on a US carrier. I give them mad props with the only bad thing about the flight was my very picky tastebuds didnt care for the dinner they served but everyone else i spoke to on the flight loved it But anyways UAL never really mentioned Star Alliance that much, it was mentioned during boarding and once on the flgiht priror to pushback and once at the end
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 3:54 am

Still sore about not getting a BizElite upgrade?

The grass is a lot greener on the other side of the curtain.

And life is better on Concourses T, A, B, D, and E.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:01 am

not at all actually, 2 of the DL cabin crewmembers were great along with the agents in ATL, was offered a dinner from businesselite by one of the attendents and AF welcomed me "up front" on all of my inter european flgihts. I am more then happy with my employer, and I must say that though United was much better then DL for the pond crossing, DL has improved signifigently since I flew them ATL-CDG in 96.
 
Jetspotter
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 6:08 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:15 am

I dont like SkyTeam. Take United Transatlantic, you get more to eat and drink in YC. Also, Entertainment is good. I dont feel safe on Skyteam Airlines (Especially Aeromexico). I also dont care for ATL. I was there and those concourses are dirty and narrow. I use ORD and United for many flights, as well as NW through DTW.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:57 am

You don't feel safe on AM. Why don't you defend your statement with some facts.

By the way, if you think ATL concourses are dirty and narrow, you obviously haven't had much experience there. While many travelers dislike the fact that ATL is always busy and crowded, one thing that most agree on about ATL is that it is well maintained and clean.

Suggest you get to know some other airports in order to give you a better perspective on what facilities are nice and what facilities aren't.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:05 am

This is pure crap. DL is a great airline. I found all DL flight attendants very cheery and always cheeking. They might be butt ugly but they treat you well and know what they're doing.

Also ATL is a great Airport. Very efficient and easy layout.

Tom
 
Jetspotter
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 6:08 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:16 am

AM does not maintain their planes properly. They rattle like crazy (The MD88 Especially). They do not meet all of the standards that US carriers do. I even feel safer on DL, I just dislike their cheap inflight service (I am used to United and Midwest Express Service) and cramped coach seats. I have never liked AM. I prefer Star Alliance. AM is not my preferred airline. About ATL, I really hate taking the stupid train. In ORD you have a better chance of having a gate on the same concourse you arrive at, if you dont, you can use the tunnel. ORD is a very efficient and orderly facility. The disadvantage is the delays on the ground. It can get crowded, but ORD was built for that with their streamlined concourses. ORD is an excellent airport.
 
AF007
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:13 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:28 am

O'Hare is heaven.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:34 am

Though I agree that Skyteam is inferior to both OneWorld and Star Alliance, the term "sky hags" is a bit harsh. Flight attendants should not be judged on looks and age. The ability to perform saftey/emergency procedures and the quality of service are the only two factors that make a difference. Airlines, thank goodness, are not strip clubs.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:12 am

I agree i was perhaps a bit harsh with the term I used, but it seams regardless of the carrier, the older the flight attendent, the less chearful and friendly they are, there are defently exceptions to this of course, but even friends of mine with DL that I was talking to all agreed that the Senior Senior Citizen F/As can be very grumpy. The ones on UA were all friendly. I always plesently introduce my self to the purser/senior FA when I fly other carriers and when I leave I always say "preciate the ride yall" when I leave. For the record as stated earlier, the F/A working the zone I was in was overly nice, and very supportive of FL, saying she flew them regualrly to get to work when DL was CXing flgihts and when DL flights were full. She was the one that brought me the meal from biz
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:28 am

A lot of our opinions are based on experiences but can we make generalizations? Who knows... First, emphasizing the flight attendants' looks/age is pretty low. I'd like to think that we're all somewhat sophisticated and professional travellers; however, some people manage to defy my generalizations. Who cares if the f/a isn't attractive? What matters is that the individual can perform his/her duties properly and efficiently. I don't care if a f/a looks like a cow, as long as he/she can get the job done. Personality far exceeds appearance in a job where hundreds of lives are placed in your hands.

As for United transatlantic service, my experiences would conflict with the other responses on this post. Problems such as no toilet paper, inoperational audio channels, broken laptop power ports and errant seat assignments made my flights anything but pleasurable. But then again, I guess this falls under: individual experiences lead to different opinions.
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:06 am

i wsnt really refering to their appearence, as there are many older people that dont show their age, but the grumpyness, but thein again yes, i am caught generalizing again, as there are young people that can be just as grumpy.

I guess if we get just to the facts

*DL's senior FA had a "why do i have to make this flight" attitude, was very monotone and drab, The F/A in my zone as stated earlier was great, and took care of me the entiere flight brining stuff back from BizElite
OUtside of meal service the f/as were not seen moving around the cabin

*UA's "purser" was also very senior but very bubbley in her annoucnments, she seemed sincerly happy to be on the trip, and to have us as passengers or maybe just happy to be going back to the US  Smile F/As never set down constatntly serving water and asking if we wanted any BEvERages

*My last DL trans oceaninc flight was a nightmare (back in 96) Only time I saw the F/A was delivering the meal service

*European Carriers SR and VS that I have flown knock any US carrier out of the water, even the 1 hour flight from CDG to TXL had a full dinner.


So in summery:

UA's flight attdendents over all seemed more welcoming and carring and bubbly

DL's service was much better then it was in 96 and with the exception of the one FA in my zone was only marginal

I also got an impression from DL that the entire pond crossing thing was relativly new. Correct me if I am wrong but DL's first pond crossing was not until 1978 with ATL-LGW. They seemed to run their internatioal ops more or less the same as if it was a domesitc flgiht going ATL-MCO rather then going ATL CDG.
 
Guest

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:16 am

One doesn't have to have facts to "feel" uncomfortable on anything! Delta was in the Atlantic Excellence Alliance when the other alliances were becoming larger and more competetive. And the result is: not many airlines left with a prestigious reputation. It's not bad, but my only complaint so far about the Skyteam is that once again, it is turning into more of a European Alliance than a World-Wide alliance!

Air France, Alitalia (very soon), Czech Airlines.
Korean Air is not a powerful nor known for its safety!
Aeromexico is what is left after Mexicana.
 
chepos
Posts: 5938
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:58 am

Aeromexico maintains their planes in excellent conditions, it is a world class airline . That comment of yours Jetspotter has no point and you obviously can't back it up. From were do you get the idea that AM dosen't maintain their aircraft properly ?
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
DeltaBoy777
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:22 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 9:12 am

Delta does give a good a discount on Orbitz. United doesn't even have much of a alliance. Oh and by the way Delta and United are SkyMiles Partners so there you go. Delta has a heck of alot better Cust. Service and food.

"fly refreshed"-delta
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 9:33 am

I think the most telling part about Skyteam's *ghetto alliance* status is that its FOUNDING MEMBERS still don't codeshare on each other.

Flying Delta to Seoul? Sorry.

Sk***am is a joke.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:18 am

Star is the best alliance on the planet, there is really no discussion  Big thumbs up.
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:29 am

It's not as if Star Alliance is leaps and bounds better than SkyTeam. Star Alliance is 'whore-ing' up the industry by having so many members.  Big grin

Look on the bright side, Korean Air has the most extensive Asia-USA route structure with modern fleet. Yes, you can come back and say that they probably crashed all their old jets, but they've gone a few years without gracing the headlines.
 
Guest

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 12:14 pm

Always try to remember... ONEWORLD RULES!


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any doubt????

REMEMBER...ONEWORLD RULES

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Jetspotter
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 6:08 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 12:15 pm

Delta serves those stupid "skydeli" bags on ATL-ORD flights, while United passengers (and some enjoying Economy Plus paying full fare) get their food served inflight. Thats one less thing to worry about when boarding. And for those people who forget to pick up a Deli, well they are out of luck. If you want Seconds, the extra bags are back at ATL. Airlines give out "Seconds" if there is enough to go around first. United has Audio Entertainment on every plane out of ATL with the exception of the 737-200. ORD is wonderful.
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 12:24 pm

"ONEWORLD RULES"

...no they don't  Big thumbs up
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 12:37 pm

OK...the Skyteam is the Ghetto alliance of the 3 big alliances, but DL DOESN'T BELONG IN IT!! DL is so far above the rest of the skyteam members...I wish they were still with SIA and Swissair. But, they are still skymiles partners with United and SIA  Smile DL has improved so much in the past few years and their new look really signifies "the new Delta". Delta= Big thumbs up Skyteam= Sad
DeltaOwnsAll
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 1:16 pm

DL has improved so much in the past few years

Ye of such short memories....
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 1:17 pm

now to address the attack on me:

Delta SFO said:

The grass is a lot greener on the other side of the curtain.

And life is better on Concourses T, A, B, D, and E.

The reason I joined FL was after flying J7 from SAV to ATL prior to flying ATL-CDG on DL. My flight on J7 was great and that is when I said I would work for J7, Times change and J7 became FL. I love FL, the people that fly it love it, the DL flight crews love it when they commute, FL defently has its place in ATL no need to bash it, this post wasnt intended as a DL bash. And as stated earlier the service the F/A gave me was great, and as for BizElite that was ruled out well before the flight as the flgiht was oversold, and bizelite was well booked with rev. customers. Other carriers that i have flown VS being the best have taken care of other airline employees, and if you look on an FL flight the DL jumpseater is normaly enjoying business class. Anyways I dont want another DL-FL war, nor was the post intendent at DL bashing.

And for the record, my grandmother who has non rev privleges (wouldnt put my girlfriend(s) as sig. others as they are too unstable  Smile ) will be flying DL in two weeks on a route covered by FL as she will be traveling alone and due to flight times, i purchased her a revenue ticket on DL and I know DL will treat her very well.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 1:34 pm

DL's "sky hags" have been almost universally friendly and very proud to work hard for Delta, in my opinion.

One case in point:

Flying a few weeks ago SLC-PDX, we had an entire class full of high school kids in the rear of a 767. Talk about loud! The FAs, while annoyed with the kids, were doing their best to make everyone comfortable... they were even joking with me about it.

The annoucements were cheerful and sometimes funny, and everyone seemed to have a true smile on their face.

The kicker for DL's service comes at this point though:

Last summer, I was on a DL flight from DEN-CVG. We were a few minutes (15 at most) late, due to some problems with seat assignments. The captain was very apologetic and indicated that "he gets just as frustrated as we do, and he'll do what he can to get us under way soon."

Not only did someone from the flight deck (FO I think) come back to help resolve the seat problem before takeoff, the FO also came back during flight to personally apologize to people and went around confirming peoples' connections in CVG. All for being 15 minutes late.

Never have I seen a service issue resolved like that. Fly UA or AA, and at a 15 minute delay, they tell you that you're going to be late and that you're going to like it.

Finally, regarding SkyDeli, they're not bad ... they get the annoying carts out of the aisles, and it's not a small amount of food. Every SkyDeli flight I've been on, the FA's always ask before closing the door for people who forgot to get their bags to ring their call buttons, and then they grab some for them, and I always see them grabbing 5 extras or so just in case.

Delta is a world-class carrier that doesn't BS their customers around like UA does. That's why they get my business.
 
andrej
Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 8:31 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 1:56 pm

Hi Wilcharl,

Question for You: Did You flew on CSA?
I am amazed what You had said
"CSA Czec Air- Eastern European Crap, Makes LOT look like Virgin Atlantic"
First of all, CSA is not Czec Air, but Czech Airlines.
Second of all, CSA is the BEST airline in former Eastern Block. Their service is much MORE better then LOT or MALEV or other airline!

I am not saying that "SkyTeam" is great alliance, but I know one thing for sure. That Yours infomartions about CSA are false. Please, next time, when You do not know nothing about some airline, keep it for Yourself. Thanks!

Andrej
 
bunga777
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 2:12 pm

I must agree with Andrej. CSA is a great airline and had excellent service when I flew JFK-Prague-Bratislava-JFK. It definitely does not deserve your ethnocentric and elitist comments.
 
cylw
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 2:34 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 2:14 pm

Havent been on Delta in many years. Whats this SkyDeli thing? Why do you need a bag for it??
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 2:26 pm

the info on CSA came from others opinons on the service i must admit were not my own, but of reviews i read, those rated LOT as #1 for eastern europe, and were not favorable for CSA i appologize for the spelling error.
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:02 pm

With some time and effort Skyteam can become an excellent alliance.
Delta: the passenger airline. They know how to fill the flights, and in some respects that's the name of the game. Strong Eastern USA route structure that simply lends itself well to European partnerships
Air France: Can have some meaningful expansion out of CDG. Strong Presence in Europe and decent coverage of Africa for a non african airline. Much O/D traffic to/from paris.
CSA Czech: They've replaced their soviet aircraft and have basically remade themselves. They are a good Gateway to eastern Europe. They will come in handy when the economy improves in the former soviet union/Eastern Europe.
Alitalia: Again, lots of O/D traffic and DL's route structure lends itself well to Europe.
Korean:Expect to see codesharing sometime in the near future. As previously stated they already have the route structure serving LAX/DFW/ATL/SFO/ORD.
Aeromexico:North American Free Trade Agreement. Seriously MEX is the one of the largest cities in the world and traffic to Mexico is really consistent.
What needs done...1.Open Skies Agreements. Currently I know neither France nor Mexico have open skies agreements with the US. Time to work on that.
After that, 2.anti trust immunity. That's what's lacking at certain other big name alliances. If ATI can be attained sky team's minor glitches would be much easier to work out. and 3.Consistent customer Service. This could be easily remedied after ATI is attained by simply having each airlines reservations handling calls for any of the alliance members, like Northwest does for KLM. That way the customer can call whomever they are comfortable talking to ie an american calls Delta, a mexican calles AM etc... Things are being put into place
already with the Open Skies and ATI phases. We'll all see how this turns out. I, for purely personal reasons, wish them the best.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:53 pm

SkyTeam is the youngest of the alliances, so being to new kid in the class immediately means that they'll be picked on. Sure two of the alliance's members have reputations for poor safety (KAL and Aeromexico), but the rest of the alliance has their good things. The reason why Delta has suspended any codeshares on KAL flights is due to safety concerns addressed by Delta management; once KAL's safety standards me to Delta's satisfaction, codeshares will resume. With Alitalia joining soon, and the probability of Aeroflot joining next year, yes the alliance is taking a more European flavor, but SkyTeam is looking for a South American and another Asian carrier to join SkyTeam. Also look for Delta's new codeshare partner, British European to become a member in a few years also. If you look at the Star Alliance, several of the airlines in the alliance are owned by one company. Austrian owns Tyrolian and Lauda Air, and operates them as subsidiaries, but are each considered individual members in the alliance. Oneworld may have some of the world's most respected airlines, but the alliance is very tenuious, as evidenced by the rumblings last year that BA was going to leave oneworld for SkyTeam and bring along Qantas and Cathay Pacific, but it never amounted to nothing more than idle speculation. And in my own opinion, if AA's and BA's rejuventated plans for increased partnership is turned down yet again, I see oneworld falling apart. The relationship between AA and BA is the main force in this alliance. To refer to SkyTeam as the ghetto alliance is extremely childish, for SkyTeam is barely a year old while Star and oneworld have been around for several years now. Delta and Co. still have a lot more baby steps to take before they get to the levels of the other alliances.
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:32 pm

TO MUCH FOR SUCH AN EASY ANSWEAR

TO Wilcharl:
If you don´t like SKY TEAM, that´s why there are more Airlines to fly...

TO JetSpotter:
You don´t like AMX, why?? Just because the way that makes you think that it´s a Mexican Airlines you think is bad?? What you really know about the maintainance.. I guess nothing... also you may probably don´t know And this is really true I´m not inventing or comming up just like this with this idea,

BUT Last year people from SA came to Mexico an make some exams... and they said that the best Mecanic in the hole world was one from Mexicana de Aviación!!!

So every time if you once get on a plane from AM or MX, be shure you´ll be safe.


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Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Wed Aug 08, 2001 10:25 pm

Skyteam is abit of an embrassment to global aviation.

Its is nothing more than Delta being saddled with the dirty rags from europe that nobody else wanted to touch.

AF?Great airline?yeah right.AF f/as have poor customer service, CDG is a nightmare for connections, at best af are unwelcoming, at worst just plain rude.

Koren is an airline with one of the worst possible safety records in aviation, id rather fly with gaurda and have fishhooks stuck up my nose.

CSA-a world class airline',what were you smoking when you can out with that comment.Ive flown CSA, three time, each time lost my case, each time little apology.

Alitilia-other wise known as scabilitia and the nickname is right.In the lastest which magazine survey alitilia and air france we rated as the worst airlines in the world with approval ratings of under 5%.

Aeromexico, another poor safety records, flown with them and experienced delays and delays due to techincal problems, harldy any apology.

has anyone tried to book a delta flight to korea?

Skyteam cant be considered as a major alliance until each airline does three simple things.

1)Code share
2)improve connections
3)improve their customer service.

skyteam may be new but thats no excuse, each of these airlines have been around for a number of years and its not as if skyteam was formed yesterday.
"Oneworld may have some of the world's most respected airlines, but the alliance is very tenuious, as evidenced by the rumblings last year that BA was going to leave oneworld for SkyTeam and bring along Qantas and Cathay Pacific, but it never amounted to nothing more than idle speculation. "

really? well i never saw rod of BA or lord king say anything and qantas never mentioned it.what sources do you have, i think this is a skyteam fan making comments without getting their head out of the sand.

Oneworld is a strong alliance, BA and AA will be allowed to increase co-operation, even if they didnt they would stay in oneworld and try again.Thats what they did last time.Ba wouldnt leave one world because it owns part of iberia, 25% of qantas and wants to buy aer lingus, bA wount scarifice one of the worlds most respected alliances to join with AF when it hates AF.
Even Cathy and qantas no longer have the bitching sessions.
take a look at star-Thai and SQ at each others thoarts!or look at delta which cant be pleased to have csa or scabitlita joining

to call skyteam the getto alliance is a bit too harsh but make no mistake its a sorry excuse for an allliance.

british european?dont make me laugh,British european has always said it doesnt want to join skyteam.It has a battle on its hands to stay alive let alone expand into a major carrier.

so im sorry to you skyteam lovers with you heady thughts cased by too much daydreaming but it will always be the thrid rated alliance because the attitudes of some of the carriers have to change.

oneworld and star other great cuctomer service on award winning airlines with good connections.

the only thing skyteam is going to win is the award for airline in the world that people feel most sorry for and the winner is Delta for being stuck with third rate carriers and an AF which thinks it never needs to improve.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:21 am

Here is something that will make you laugh.

I was in an Airport yesterday, and I saw an old junk EMB-120 with ASA, with the orange paint chipping away and rust in some places headed to ATL, while next door, AirTran has a 717-200 (N963AT, newest one) is also headed to ATL, for a cheaper fare. The Gate Agents were nice and everything. What would you take? I would rather take the 717 than the rustbucket brasilia.
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:05 am

A lot of people think AF and AZ are bad.
I flew with both and yes they are lower than BA, SK, OS and LH, but not so bad as people usually say.
On LIN-LHR it sure better the AZ A321 with IFE than the old BA B757/200.

But about the topic, I don't think Skyteam is The Ghetto Alliance. I don't know very well about DL and others extra-european patners, but here in Europe Skyteam will be very strong.
They have 3 important hubs (CDG,MXP and FCO) plus Prague for the next future. They have an exellent coverage of Europe (west and east) and Mediterranean.
Their hubs can grow more than Star or Oneworld hubs,
and AF and AZ have a very important domestic market (France+Italy= 116 milions) compared with (LH+SK+OS domestic market= 109 milions) or (BA+IB+AY+EI domestic market=106 milions).

In the European scenario I see more difficult for Oneworld than Skyteam. Cause Oneworld hubs are full and too west from the future traffic development in East Europe and Mediterranean area.
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:52 pm

Bad Prejudice. While other alliances is excused by 'they will be', SkyTeam must be 'now they are'. Does KE codeshare with DL? Yes in CONUS. (...a military term.) Then does MX or TG codeshare with NH? No, with JL.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 6:21 am

Onworld hubs too full?
BIG FAT QUE!!!

Skyteam nows has to deliver, you didnt get this excuse with oneworld or with star.

if the second rate carriers werent ready then thats their fault.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
airblue
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:16 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 3:56 pm

OK GO Canada, if LHR, LGW, DUB, MAD or HEL can grow and adds new slots great for Oneworld patners,
but unfortunately most of them are full and located too west and north.
For the next future there will a strong grow in air traffic in Eastern and Mediterranean area, and Star and Skyteam have a better position in these strategic market.
Remember that business traffic doesn't live only in the London area. And even if a carrier is "a second rate", but it gets the O/D traffic,it will grow faster to be a "first rate".
I'm not against Oneworld, I only try to see what will happen in the next future. Oneworld can reduce the gap in the Eastern and Mediterranean with some new patners like LOT or Olympic.
 
Guest

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 8:35 pm

It seems SkyTeam brings a lot of very extreme judgement! I just wanted to make a few points:

- On the technical side, contrary to what was said previously, France does have an open sky agreement with the US. Also, someone mentioned SkyTeam partners do not code share together??? Excluding Korean (that puts its passangers in Delta & AF planes but not vice versa until safety is proven to be back on track) everybody codeshares with everybbody

- On AF: I believe everybody had good or bad flight experiences on any airlines hence the extreme position taken by various participants.

Still, overall I do not understand the Air France bashing. I would guess it is probably due to its long history as a State-run airline and the worldwide reputation of Frenchs being arrogant.

But if you look just at the facts, you would see that AF is an extremely well run company now.
In my experience, service (especially on board) is better than on many other airlines such as LH & SAS (at least in economy & bizz), even if some such as SQ are obviously even better. It is sometimes taken as arrogant because the style is a little reserved and cold (very unlike Delta for instance) but they are usually kind and always give a 2nd serving of goose liver (in bizz) or Champagne (in any class) if you ask!!

Also, CDG airport is a fabulous place for connections.
If all this wasn't true, how would you explain that AF is almost the only airline still growing in traffic & profits whereas all others see their traffic & profit declining?

- With AF growing strongly , Delta a strong US partner, I believe SkyTeam will become a strong alliance. What they still lack is a strong Asian partner (Korean is great in service but has a bad safety reputation & is still small anyway) and some innovations (for the moment they copied other alliance rather than innovate, save the cargo alliance which was a first). Let's see what happens..

(By the way, I do NOT work with AF!!)
 
Guest

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 9:01 pm

One world is quite strong

AA and QF have a strong relationship
BA and QF have a Very Strong relation ship
If the SQ/NZ/AN deal goes through i see CX and QF getting cosy
BA and El are quite strong aren't they
BA/AA and QF/CX are the two pairs that dont have much of a relationship due to the Govt.

Can someone please add to the list above

thnx
 
Silverstreak
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 2:49 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Do you get on a plane to get there or eat? C'mon guys you're 35,000 ft. in the air! The cabin crew has a lot of people to take care of and you want your Mom, sister, or whatever to take care of you. Yes, it's expensive to fly, but don't take it out on the crew. I've certainly come across some people who do not need to work one more day for an airline. I have flown with airlines, who for all their hype about their service, were not all that. I also been on some airlines who have GREAT people, but don't have a PR department charging big $$$ to convince us that you your flight will be a Taj Mahal. It's still the people working the aircraft to make the difference. It ain't the color scheme, logos, or a cocktail napkin. They are part of the image - the people make it work!
 
papatango
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 10:20 pm

hey co lite at least delta is in an alliance
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:04 pm

my AF experiences were great, service was wonderful, treated me like I was one of their own. And as I said, DL was not BAD it was just not nearly as good as any of my other pond crossings on other carriers. I talked to people that flew over on TW and their stories were way worse then mine. Its all to the individuals both pax and crew. Unfortuantly my luck with DL has always been only marginal. Honestly I see DL like public transportation:

They get you from Point A to Point B in a reasonable time. You know what to expect up front and thats what you get.

UA does offer meal service on many of the routes that delta does the SkyDeli thing on. On DL's behalf alot of the ATL-DCA/IAD flts DL does SkyDeli on, and on my UA flight it was only "limited beverage service"
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: SkyTeam The Ghetto Alliance ...

Fri Aug 10, 2001 11:26 pm

When did the US/France sign an open skies agreement? From sources in my company and http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/530911/6/
I tend to see that this agreement was not to go into effect until 2003, but they wanted to accellerate it.

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