tripple7
Posts: 510
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KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:30 pm

Hi this might be interesting to some of us. Lately there have been many discussions about KLM's widebody fleet but now we have a fact.

Today on the morning news in the Netherlands, it was said that KLM has asked Boeing and Airbus for tenders on their B-777 and A-330 aircraft. KLM wants a tender for 34 planes and all are going to be replacements. The first 12 are going to replace the B-747-300 and the other 22 are going to replace their MD-11 and B-767 fleet.

I hope they are going to take the 777.

BTW, I do not see the logic in replacing a 767 by a 777

regards

tripple7
 
na
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:53 pm

An I don´t see the logic in replacing 747-300s with 777s unless your business is declining permanently.
 
User avatar
Luxair
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:55 pm

Yeaphhh Tripple7, I saw it also in the News this morning. Very interesting but I hope or wish
that they will make a mix between Boeing and Airbus A/C  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Too bad for the MD11 that they will
go because I like them very much.
 
YOERI1970
Posts: 135
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:56 pm

On which channel did you get this news ?

Regarding the replacing itself......
The 777-300 to replace the 747-300 and some 777-200's to replace the MD-11's.
 
DLL10
Posts: 133
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:59 pm

Well, KLMs busines will decline, as they are not going to be together with NW for long and hardly anybody would voluntarily book a flight on a high-cost low-service airline like KLM. Anyway, I don`t see the logic in replacing 767 by 777 either. Still better than the 330 (that`s what LTU is doing- replacing 763 by 332), but in both cases they should rather stick with their 767s.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:06 pm

I wonder if Airbus is even going to respond on this request for tenders!

Airbus recently announced they do not want to be used anymore by airlines who are just using the Airbus tender as a way of forcing Boeing to offer a them better deal.

It looks to me like this is certainly the case here.
We al know KLM is the odd man out in Europe when it comes to fleet management, and they will most likely never order the A330. Don't forget KLM is the only major carrier in Europe (apart from SAS) who preferred the B737NG! (SAS has the A321 as well by the way).

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens over the next weeks. Who knows, maybe Airbus will give them such good tenders that KLM simply can not refuse them after all.
 
OO-VEG
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:28 pm

Replacing the 747 for the smaller 777 is not that strange. It is not declining business. Remember most 747-400 are combi's. So it is not that strange KLM preffers a smaller aircraft.

Now that Northwest has chosen the A330 KLM might do the same thing. However, as KLM is Europe's one and only REAL Boeing customer I hope and think they will choose the B777.

Maybe KLM also decides about buying the B757-300 as a replacement for the 767. After all are those aircraft less expensive to fly with that the 767.

DLL10: Why do you think NW and KLM will split-up? Is this just something you hope for or do you have some good reasons to say that?
 
LBA
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:32 pm

Will BA be part of the decision, considering the news this weekend that BA want a stake in KLM of up to 25%?
 
*Niels*
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:04 pm

I think that KLM wouldn't even consider buying the 757-300 because that gives to many problems with the baggage handling.
Second of all I hope that KLM will choose the airbus, and not just to breakthrough the boeing-monopoly (if it still exists).
In my opinion the A340-500/600 are the best aircrafts to replace the 747-306 and the 767-306ER. And perhaps you could consider to buy 11 A330's to replace the MD-11's. But however KLM takes the final decission and lets hope it will be a wise one.

Greetings,
Niels
 
twa@fra
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:52 pm

Bad news to hear that they will replace B743 by B777, so lot of Maindeck cargo space will be lost, because some/or all are combi`s.
Does anybody know if KL want to covert al his B743 into freighters

N.P.M.
 
DLL10
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:58 pm

Well, the break up was in the news a while ago and I am not sure if something changed or not. Fact is that KLM has lost a lot of shuttles between AMS and the rest of Europe due to bad cooperation strategies and thus AMS as hub and KL as partner become less attractive for NW. More and more flight to the middle and far east are already operated by NW aircraft although they almost totally relied on KL for those routes in the past. So I guess that if they find any way to get fifth freedom rights out of the Netherlands, they will split up with KL, as those rights seem to be the only good thing that NW gets out of the partnership. That anyways is what the article like 3 month ago said. Don`t know if there`s anything newer.
 
tripple7
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:11 pm

I think the Boeing777 is a perfect replacement for the 747-300. A lot of those 747-300s are combis. KLM seems to prefer aircraft that can carry a lot of cargo. The fact is that 777 combis can carry quite a lot of cargo, and if I am not mistaken it can even carry more cargo than a 747-400 combi. Not sure about this, but I thaught I read it somewhere around this forum a while ago.

Anyway is there anyone who can explain the logic behind replacing a 767-300ER with an 777 (if KLM chooses the 777). There is quite a big difference in capacity between these two planes.

tripple7
 
YOERI1970
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:15 pm

I am getting a bit irrirated about those airbus addepts, trying to explain why "their" aircraft should benefit KLM.
Has everyone forgotten about what a fiasco the A310's in the 80's and early 90's were ?

KLM wants standardization in their fleet, therefor they will most likely choose 777's.
The only question is, will they also order the 200 or 300 versions. Likely a mix.
 
*Niels*
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:35 pm

Beste Juninho,

I'll try to make some things clear, first of all I'm surely not an Airbus adept as you suggest. And airbus is certainly not my aircraft, but my opinion is based on articles I read in the Piloot en Vliegtuig (a dutch magazine you probably know about).
I didn't forgot the problems with the 310 a couple of years ago, but I really think that the A340 is a better choice, perhaps not in the view of standardization but it just feels good.
Anyway as I said before it isn't our choice which plane will replace the 747, 767 and the MD-11, but I think that we are free to discus about it. I'm sorry for your irritations, and in the future I'll mind my words.

Greetings,
Niels
 
Guest

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:36 pm

it makes perfect logic. they will likley order more 777's than there are 743. so more flights means more money

and klm will not care about NWA. what do they have to do with it. and also klm is on Boeing's supply network
 
LON-CHI
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:40 pm

 
YOERI1970
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 11:14 pm

*niels*

Tue Aug 07, 2001 8:46 pm

It wasn't personal *niels*, so no worries. But there are a lot of real airbus addepts that would like to see the whole world flying airbusses.
I can't deny that airbusses have their advantages, but for KLM, they will probably not do, they don't feel good to me.. Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But if KLM might choose airbus after all, I am sure it's a decision made with a lot of common sense by people who get richly paid.... Smile/happy/getting dizzy
We'll just have to wait and see.
 
Joni
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RE: *niels*

Tue Aug 07, 2001 9:53 pm


Replacing 743s with 773 and 763 with 332 sounds pretty natural to me - no that large differences in capacity.
 
456
Posts: 315
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 10:28 pm

Why dont i see a 1 to 1 replacement, so a 747-3combi for a new 747-4combi?

What will happen with the old planes?
It is a really BIG replacement: Almost EVERY plane will be replaced in the near future, except the 747-4 and the 737NG
 
SM92
Posts: 105
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Article On 777 Or A330 For KLM

Tue Aug 07, 2001 10:47 pm

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010807/l07383949.html
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 10:47 pm

Hopefully a mix of both types from both manufacturers?
 
Teej13
Posts: 447
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:10 pm

A couple of thoughts:

- If they're looking to replace the 763s, and have made it clear that they're simply not going to go for more 767s, that says something right there.

- They still have a large fleet of 744s, although some are combis, they're not going anywhere soon.

- Fleet commonailty isn't as vital as some people may argue when discussing aircraft acquisition of this magnitude. Look at United - they've got a pretty diverse fleet of both Airbus and Boeing planes, and they're pretty adept at doing maint. on other Star Alliance jets. Besides, with all of the A330s coming to NW, they'll need to know how to maintain those planes too.

- My guess is that they're goign to go with an Airbus-Boeing mix. I don't think loyalties playa role here - while they've been pretty strong about Boeing of late, they are also a cornerstone of the EU.

My call is some A332s and some B773s
 
EFG
Posts: 35
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:39 pm

They can replace the 763' s for 764's.
And replace the 743's for 773's and MD-11's for 772's.
And order some 737NG later to replace old 737' s.
I guess they will go for an all Boeing fleet.

BTW, on which channel was the news?
Because I watched NOS this morning, but I saw nothing.
 
Guest

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:44 pm

KLM was one of few airlines that had been saying that they would retain the MD-11, but I guess they have changed their mind. Anyway, a plan was called around 1996 to sell all of them to Northwest, which never acquired them.

The Boeing 777-200ER would be a good replacement for the Boeing 747-300/-200SUD combis, as the pax capacity is not so different. However, that would raise the need for a cargo aircraft...so, the 777-300 would probably be the ideal replacement. However, the 777-200 will be an ideal replacement for the MD-11s. The Boeing 767s KLM operate are still very new (less than 10 years), so I don't know why there is the need to replace them, but knowing that all of these are leased from ILFC, maybe KLM doesn't want to renew the lease contracts...like other airlines that are considering replacing the 767s, I think KLM would eventually select the Airbus A330-200 for this.

FlyTriStar
 
bobnwa
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Tue Aug 07, 2001 11:46 pm

DLL10,

What article are you talking about. Nothing could be farther from the truth. NW is very happy with the alliance with KLM.
You said " more and more flights are operated by to the middle and far east are already operated by Northwest aircraft although they they have almost totally relied on KL for these routes in flights out of Amsterdam."

The only non-US flights that Northwest flies out of Amsterdam go to Bombay and Delhi. These were started at the request of KLM several years ago to get additional slots in India for the alliance. There are no other flights flown by Northwest out of Amsterdam, to anywhere in Europe, the "middle east" or the far east.

Are you sure it was an article, or was it a message on one of the message boards? Those are two different things

 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 1:13 am

From the Yahoo article:

A KLM spokesman said the airline's freight division was reviewing its strategy.

``There is a separate KLM cargo study going on that is looking at longer-term capacity,'' he said.

KLM had 13 747-300s, most of them converted from 747-200s, which were delivered with a shorter upper deck, he said.

Two were freighters and therefore unaffected by this decision on passenger aircraft
-----

I don't understand the statement: 747-300s, most of them converted from 747-200s.

My question... I didn't know that there were -300s that were former -200s (converted, as they say). Is this true?

I know there are 747-200SUDs, which were different from 747-300s. Is this what they were talking about?
 
Guest

AKelley728

Wed Aug 08, 2001 1:23 am

You are correct, the article is talking about the 747-200s, sent back to Boeing for conversion into 747-200SUD, which to an observer, looks exactly like a 747-300, with the exception of a different amount of windows on the upper deck.

-Tom
 
na
Posts: 9170
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 1:44 am

I just ask myself, why only A330 and 777? Why not the A340? Too much range? Why not more 744 Combis?
Bad business? Sure KLM isn´t doing very good at the moment. But these plan shows they´re not too optimistic for the future. Ok, many 747-200 SUD need to be replaced, and two are already in storage, and the rest will be 25 years old when they will get replacements, but KLM´s plans dissapoint me a bit. Those impressive 747s and MD-11s leave for comparatively boring twins.
 
LJ
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 2:04 am

In addition KLM also asked GE, P&W and Rolls Royce to make an offer for KLM for the powerplants under the new aircraft. Furthermore, KLM also invited the major lease companies (probably GECAS and ILFC) to make an offer (and don't forget that all KLM B767's are leased from ILFC and the first leases expires in two years time).

Anyway KLM wil NOT order both the B777 and the A330. Furthermore, according to the official KLM press release both the A330 and the B777 are the aircraft considered at this time and only for the B747-300's. Thus in theory KLM may order A340's or B767-400's.

Regards
Laurens
 
Red Panda
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 2:41 am

KLM should go for A346 for 744 and 743, 332 for 767, and 343 for MD-11. maybe some 333 and 345 too.


brgds // r panda
 
Notar520AC
Posts: 1517
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:29 am

I hope not!
BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:48 am

DLL10.
You are quite confident about what you are saying. So give us some sources where you got this from. And I mean real sources not the journal I saw or a magazine I have read.

Furthermore. Airbus may give huge discounts to KLM just because they want them as their customer. After all, Airbus did give huge discounts on the sales of the A380 (yes I know, they needed customers in order to built it). I think Airbus want's to see KLM as a new customer, lets face it KLM is the only airline which practically doesn't fly Airbus.
I don't see Boeing offering discounts. But on the other hand I don't think KLM gives a damn **** about discounts, they want long-term benefits.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

OO-VEG

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:18 am

OO-VEG: I don't see Boeing offering discounts.

If the airframe business is anything like any other business, a substantial order will in most cases be sweetened by some kind of discount. Size differing with market conditions, of course.  Wink/being sarcastic

OO-VEG: But on the other hand I don't think KLM gives a damn **** about discounts, they want long-term benefits.

It´s always the total package that sells the deal...
 
Guest

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:23 am

Boeing always gives discounts. but not as much as airbus so boeing has a better reputation.
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:36 am

Klaus: What I actually meant were mega discounts like Airbus sometimes does, I have heard they sold some aircraft for just half the price. I have never heard such stories from Boeing.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:02 am

Most likely new aircraft are 777s (one mod only) and more 737-900s.
777s to replace the 747-200 and 300 series (KLM makes no distinction themselves, all 200s are stretched).
737-900 to replace the 767. Those are used mainly on longer or high-volume European and ME routes, where a 737-800 is too small or does not have the legs. The -900 has longer range and is larger.
I wish I were flying
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3268
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:24 am

When KLM replaces their 767s and MD-11s, will the planes off Martinair be replaced as well then?

Other option I once read on another forum, put KLM's (young) 767s at Martinair and convert them to full-freighter. In essence making Martinair a freight-only airline. In that case KLM Cargo won't get a capacity problem if the planes ordered aren't combis. Possibly the MD-11's can be added to Martinair as wel.
Attamottamotta!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:58 am

This order has been rumoured and talked about for many years and delayed many times; but I think that KLM is serious now since it feels that it can make a very good deal, with either Airbus or Boeing, with the ecomomy in a downturn and airlines just not needing or buying many new aircraft at the moment.

KLM has said it wants one type to replace, over time, the 743, MD11 and 763 aircraft: look for a 772/773 mior an A332/A333/A343 depending on who gets it. The last time around, Boeing was supposed to be in the lead, but it seems as if KLM is starting all over again with the tender process. Good for them, if they can get the aircraft cheaper, why not?

The 743s are getting old and are likely the first to be replaced, the 763s are all on lease and there are constant rumours that KLM is just not that happy with the 763, its always been unclear why, but I always thought it had something to do with cargo capacity, so as part of this deal, they may be returned, the MD11s will probably go last, KL has not expressed any unhappiness with the MD11, but the aircraft is simply out of style and it may be the right time to dispose of them while cargo airlines are still very interested. (FedEx bought KLM's A310s, maybe they will take the MD11s too?)

KLM will have a very effecient fleet with only the 3 types (say 744, 777, 737NG) when this program is completed. It makes sense.

I also think that KLM will purchase a few more 739s for the high density european routes now flown by the 763; the 777 or A333 will not make sense flying AMS-LHR, for example. Also, KLM has announced it is looking at reorganizing its freight business; in one of the articles, if you read between the lines, KLM (one of the last big combi fans) may be interested in more clearly seperating its cargo and pax services; thus an A332 or 772 could easily fly many of the routes currently operated by the 743 Combis.

Airbus and Boeing are going to work hard for this order; my prediction is that Boeing will win - no inside info, just guessing?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:10 am

One final comment to a posting above, the 739 on middle east routes may be a little short on range at full capacity; the 739 does not have the range that a 738 has as Boeing did a simple job when designing the 739 - it added capacity and deducted some range. i believe that the range of the 739 is about 2400 miles, OK for TLV or Cairo but not much further. Boeing is looking at developing a longer range example, so how knows?

Also concerning the Martinair comment, that entire airline's future remains so unclear that I do not think that they are looking at fleet replacement at this time.
 
Guest

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:15 am

Boeing in pdx wrote:
"Boeing always gives discounts. but not as much as airbus so boeing has a better reputation"

Huh????? Can you please provide me with reliable sources on this one. Other forum members are not rgarded to be reliable sources. Oh, and the 'everybody knows this... blablabla doesn't go either.

OO-VEG wrote:
"What I actually meant were mega discounts like Airbus sometimes does, I have heard they sold some aircraft for just half the price. I have never heard such stories from Boeing."

The important words here are 'I have heard' and 'stories'. Because unless you can back 'em up with facts, that's what they are: stories, nothing more than that.

Look, what it comes down to is that there is absolutely no proof that Airbus gives more discounts on its products than Boeing. It's all just talk, nothing more. Airbus is not a charity, you know. It is my belief that both give discounts which are more or less the same, on average. Or do you think American, Delta and Continental were just happy to sign exclusivity deals for planes just under list price?

Back on topic  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
If KLM is only looking at the A330 and 777 to replace the 747-300 (remember, this tender is initially only for the replacement of the 743s, the MD-11 and 767 replacement will take place on a later date), I think the 777 will win. Simply because the A330-300 doesn't have the range to replace the 747, and the A330-200 (which has more range) is too small.

Greetings Big grin
 
Red Panda
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:58 pm

RE: Juul

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:17 pm

your probably forgot about the latest 345 and 346. If you count them in, Airbus might win.

brgds // r panda
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:24 pm

When is the decision going to be made? Sometime soon?

I do hope to see B777s with KLM!

alvin
Boeing747 万岁!
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:29 pm

I hope KLM considers the A330 and A340-500/600 to replace their current fleet . Boeing 777 will do too .
Hmm i feel that Boeing 777 is the favourites because of the strong relationship with Boeing .
But i wont rule out Airbus
This is exciting through .


 
sas a340
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:22 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:10 pm



I don't see the a 340-600 as a replacer for the 747-200/300 fleet, the 600 has a capacity of 380 seats while the capacity of the 747-200/300's lays around 300 seats.

I think that KLM will replace the 747's and MD-11's
with 777's(due the long relation between KLM and Boeing) and also because the 777 is a good replacer for the 747-200/300's.
The 767-300ER's will be replaced with the 330's(because Boeing hasn't a really good replacer for the 767-300ER's).

 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1217
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:11 pm

For Juul and all the other who need some reliable sources:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0103/05/business/business9.html
"Qantas has secured walk-away clauses and a 40 per cent discount from Airbus Industrie for its $3.07 billion contract for 12 A380 super jumbo jets"

http://www.millennium-debate.org/tel26aug3.htm
"Huge discounts and incentives helped Airbus, the four-nation European civil airline consortium, beat Boeing for the lion's share of a British Airways order potentially worth £8 billion for 220 aircraft, equivalent to replacing 75pc of its current fleet."


It is not half the price but that Qantas deal is comming really close towards it.


 
Guest

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 8:10 pm

As for the first article: Huge discounts are always given to launch customers.

The second: let me just quote:
"Both manufacturers made nonsense of list prices with heavy reductions - Airbus is believed to have cut a third off the schedule price of between $40m and $56m a plane to match the Boeing discount on the rival 737 tender - but had to go further to win the day. Noel Forgeard, Airbus managing director, said: "Our price was higher than Boeing's."

Look, I never said Airbus does not give steep discounts. I only said that Boeing does this as well. Sometimes Airbus' discount is higher, sometimes the other way around. I don't know exact numbers for specific orders, but you can bet AA, DL, CO paid a LOT less than list price for their exclusivity contracts with Boeing...

Greetings Big grin
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:57 pm

Concerning discounts, its common for both Airbus and Boeing to give big discounts to secure orders, and to cut their prices even more if special factors are involved: ie, a launch customer, a larger order for one or many types, a loyal customer, to get a customer away from the other, etc., etc. ,etc. There was a reason that SQ ordered so many 777 at one time, they got a great price on the aircraft; there was a reason that CO, DL and AA entered into the exclusivity agreements with Boeing (even if such agreements cannot be enforced), Boeing was offering price incentives, and there was a reason that BA went with the A320 family for its narrowbody needs, Airbus was offereing a great deal to get BA as a customer.

In the airline business, where each aircraft costs 10s of millions of dollars, price is very important. Both Boeing and Airbus make fine products, and the 737NG is just as capable as the A320, and A340 can do everything a B777 can do, and the flying public in general has no idea what kind of plane they are on, so it all goes back to economics.
 
CX747
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RE: KLM To Replace 747-300s, MD-11s And B-767

Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:56 am

I personally see the 777-200ER winning this battle as it will be better suited to replace the747-300s and MD-11s capacity and cargo wise. It will also simplify their fleet down to the 737NG, 747-400 and 777-200ER. I can see Airbus winning also though. Brussels is nearby, and the home of the EU. You'd better believe that they want the aircraft to come from Airbus, and will apply some pressure. The A330-200 would replace the 767's nicely, but in my opinion would not be able to replace the 747-300s and MD-11s properly. Once again, I hope that the better aircraft is choosen for the job.
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