sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:13 pm

A strange thing happend on approach to SFO early yesterday morning.

We were lined up on 1R when, approx 15 seconds before touchdown, the tower asks us to "cross-leap" to 1L. (I love u Channel 9!!!)

Given SFO's parallel runway layout, it's obvious this term was a request for the pilot to land on 1L. The cockpit answered negative because it was an unreasonable action... we were so close already!

Is there a more technical term for "cross-leap", or are the ATC just hiring right out of high school? =)

SFOintern

 
flysab
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 7:59 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:18 pm

The official ICAO term for this is "sidestep".
 
sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:25 pm

Thanks much FLYSAB... u fly for Sabena?
 
flysab
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 7:59 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Wed Aug 08, 2001 6:34 pm

Welcome, SFOintern .
And yes I fly for SAB, on A330/A340.
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:09 am

I was on UA954, taxiing to SFO 28R. During our taxi, I was listening to channel 9 and a Delta 727 was cleared to land on 28R. When the aircraft was on a 2.5 mile final, the tower instructs them to "change to, cleared to land 28L" and the pilots complied. Just another example of how common this procedure is.
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:53 am

Whoa, hold on a second. What runway were you originally cleared to land on? I've never seen aircraft landing on the 1's, just takeoffs. Usually landings are on the 28's. If you were 15 seconds away from a 28 landing, I can't imagine being able to switch it to 1L no less.
 
sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:55 am

We were more than just on our 2.5 mile final. We were already passing over the ILS beacons (across from El Torito and the Elephant Bar), perhaps at FL025 just before 28L/R... I was surprised the tower requested a sidestep so late in the game, and glad the pilot swiftly replied, "NEGATIVE..."

Did you get a chance to see how far that DL 72 was on its short final?
 
sfointern
Posts: 1104
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 1:19 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:57 am

Sorry D L X, I meant 28R... it was late when I posted this (I couldn't sleep cause of the excessive heat).

Tower requested a sidestep to 28L.

Apparently there were a bunch of safety vehicles awaiting an aircraft in between 28L/R... don't know what happened.
 
Capt.Fantastic
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 1999 4:01 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:10 am

I hear either one of two phrases: "Side step", or "changed to, and cleared to land". I think it depends on the airport and maybe even the proximity of the paralells. This is done often. At LAX, when using the 25 ILS approach, aircraft are cleared for an ILS to runway 25L and than a "side step" to 25R. I don't think 25R is equipped with an ILS. I've seen aircraft sidestp on as short as .5 mile final. Even more fun than a side-steps are "S" turns.
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:11 am

Ahhh. That makes more sense then.

I have heard once in a blue moon, the 1s are used for landings, and the approach is most exciting. So, I was going to be pissed off that it happened and I missed it! (Especially with all the flying I've been doing recently.)
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 1:26 am

Geez, I would love to experience an "S" turn! D L X, I was wondering the same thing. As you stated however, 1's are used for arrivals a few times a year. More frequently, 10's and 19's are also used for arrivals. SFOintern, that Delta 727 as I said, was on a 2.5 mile final. It still had plenty of time and space to sidestep. As I looked out the window (we were holding short of 28L) the aircraft was still fairly distant.
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:10 am

I experienced an S turn on my flight into SFO sunday night. We were assigned 28R, but the captain requested 28L since we were running late. It wasn't that dramatic, though.
 
Guest

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:21 am

This happens at LAX quite often too, especially when a 747-400 is behind a Skywest or Eagle prop, and just gets to close. I saw an Aer Lingus A330 do this a few days back, switching from 25L to 25R about a mile and a half out on final. It is great fun watching such a giant aircraft do this!
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:30 am

At CLE they say "sidestep to runway 24R" or "change runway 24R cleared to land." It depends on the controller.
This Website Censors Me
 
Guest

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 2:41 am

I have been inside the fence at SNA and been asked to side step (my altitude was 200 feet), I was able to get over to 19R and all worked out. They asked me to do this as the aircraft I was following had not cleared to runway yet!
Iain
 
CoAir@IAH
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:29 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:05 am

I think this happened to me once landing at EWR. We were lined up with 4R and about 1.5 miles out, we made a steep left turn and then lined up with the other runway. It was quite a surprise and I did not realize that this happened that often. We made the approach from the south. Could these have been runway 4's instead?

Please advise!
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:27 am

Just wondering...what does an S turn have to do with switching runways?
 
DouglasDC8
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:57 am

RE: United 2303... Cross-Leap To 1L? Negative...

Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:38 pm

Years ago, I was on a UAL DC10 on approach to EWR. As I listened on channel 9 the pilots were asked if they were able to sidestep to runway 22R. We were on approach to 22L and I believe we were about 2 miles out at the time. After the pilots answered affirmative to the runway change, a Virgin Atlantic flight (VS002) was cleared to position and hold on 22L by the EWR tower. At that time, 22L/4R was the longest runway at 9,300 feet if my memory is correct. That runway is now about 10,000 feet. RWY 22R/4L was only 8,200 feet long at that time. It is now 11,000 feet long. If only I had that runway when I used to loadplan UA803 EWR-NRT operating in 747-SP equipment! By the way, I used to also load plan VS002 at that time also.

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