456
Topic Author
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:20 am

Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:29 am

Did KLM stopped service to Sydney?
If yes when, this summerseason?, why, and what is the alternative?
If i would like to fly from ams to sydney what is the best to take?
I thought they would use the malaisian hub to fuel, instead of fuelling in Singapore to their trips to Australia.

My question rises when i saw this photo:

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Photo © Anton Pettersson

 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:52 am

KLM has indeed stopped flying to Australia. All its services now operate as a code-share service with Malaysia Airlines via Kuala Lumpur.

KLM now serves Perth, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane via Kuala Lumpur. I don't think Adelaide is a code-share yet but correct me if I'm wrong. Plans are afoot to extend the code-share to Auckland too if they haven't done so already.

The current KLM timetable offers a good connection time at KUL for all Perth, Sydney and Melbourne but a long 12 hour transit for Brisbane. Interestingly, it has been pointed out on another post that oddly, KLM is to revert to its old schedule for KUL soon which will bring their 747s into KUL in the early afternoon - with NO decent connections at all to Australia/NZ!
 
456
Topic Author
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 4:20 am

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:26 am

MAS777>
tnx for the info
 
aussiestu
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:32 pm

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Mon Aug 13, 2001 5:35 am

What a disaster that another European carrier has pulled out of the Australian market. No longer do KLM Lufthansa and Air France serve these markets. A major lose to competition on these routes.?
 
zizou
Posts: 1483
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:31 am

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Mon Aug 13, 2001 8:33 am

Not really much of a disaster. As we have excellent connections on the Asian airlines: Thai via Bangkok, Malaysian via Kuala Lumpur, Singapore Airlines via Singapore, Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong, Japan Airlines and All Nippon via Tokyo/Osaka.

Add to that:
Qantas (London LHR, Frankfurt, Paris, Rome), British Airways, Lauda, Olympic, Emirates, Gulf Air, Egyptair

Note: All from Sydney

So we have plenty of options going to europe, and I suppose thats one reason why many European cariers have left Australia, as the market has been saturated with so many seats and they havn't been able to compete with many of the cheaper to fly Asian Airlines and Qantas.

So I suppose, that many of these Eurpoean Airlines (eg. KLM, Lufthana) find it more profitable to codeshare with the existing airlines, than operate on their own to Oz.
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 6:59 am

Airtours which operated a LGW-BAH-KUL-SYD service is also stopping its charter service as airfares have come down so much over the last 10 years that it is now unprofitable for a charter carrier to operate into Oz from Britain too...

...shame Kuala Lumpur loses another customer in the process too. It was a nice consolation to see Airtours 767s parked at KUL with BA's recent departure.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 8:07 am

An interesting side note is that when Air France pulled out of Australia, Qantas was quick to reintroduce service to Paris and, from reports, has been successful with it. When LH dropped SYD, QF went daily on the FRA-Syd route and the planes are full. I think much has to due with the fact that most european airlines, with the exception of BA, cannot operate the long route to Austalia on a daily basis (KLM was 2 or 3 times per week) and find it better to code-share as pax demand daily service in this day and age.

The KLM/MAS thing is going to be interesting to watch - if KLM's service to KUL does not hub with MAS onward service to Austarlian cities, or atleast SYD and MEL, there is no longer a "Direct Connection" between AMS and SYD. This will be a problem - does anyone think that QF will reopen its long dormant route to AMS?
 
aussiestu
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:32 pm

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 8:15 am


Well Dutchjet if what you say is true it will be very interesting to see if QF reopen SYD-AMS? It really is a shame to see KLM stop their SYD service. I remember when they codeshared with Alitalia and were operating more services. The less operators on this route means less choice and greater airfares.

It will be great to see AN on this the route to LHR and whether this will bring in greater competition. While LHR-SYD has something like 32 operators to SYD via their hubs hopefully AN will add more competition and a loss of charter carriers?
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 9:46 am

It is indeed a terrible shame to see KLM leave Sydney. They were the first European airline to fly to Aus, even before Imperial Airways (indeed, Australia was discovered by the Dutch before the British). It was possible cos Indonesia was a Dutch colony and KLM had the 30s equivalent of a hub at Jakarta. So KLM leaving now is the end of 70 years of service to Van Diemens Land.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

All KLM Flights To Oz Are Via KUL

Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:15 pm

It is indeed that KLM is rescheduling it's AMS-KUL-AMS services. It will depart AMS in the evening and arrives into KUL in the early afternoon, thus giving no good connections to Australian cities. However, passengers can still sit on MAS' codeshare flight which will provide good connection to Perth, Sydney and Melbourne. KLM codeshare with MAS on all of MAS' flight to Australia, i.e. Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, Cairns, Darwin, Brisbane an Auckland. I think the resheduling of KLM's service to Malaysia is due to the fact that KLM is going to cut capacity and I believe KUL does not have the market for a daily point to point services for KLM. How's KLM's load factor for it's KUL operation anyway?

Regards.
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

Airtours In Kul?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:29 pm

Mas777: Airtours fly into KUL? But why would a charter airline fly into KUL? Do they pick up passengers to SYD, BAH or LGW or it's just a technical stop? Why do British passngers go through so much trouble to get to Sydney, flying more hours and stopping twice.

Anyway, about BA's return, I dn't think this will become a reality as BA's profit slumps and thye are cutting back on capacity as well. This goes for the same as Lufthansa. So, I guess there isn't much new European / American carrier going to operate into KUL in the near future.

Regards.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:34 pm

I was hoping to see CO, AA and NWA return to SYD but now I better not hold my breath
"FUIMUS"
 
The Coachman
Posts: 1192
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Tue Aug 14, 2001 10:05 pm

I doubt QF will re-open its AMS route because their codeshare arrangements with BA are pretty good. QF flights arrive at LHR T4, and AMS flights leave from the same T.

If we Aussies insist on same airline, one stop service, then CX, TG, SQ, MH, JL, KE can satisfy.

The Coachman
M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
 
MAS777
Posts: 2757
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Did KLM Stopped Service To Sydney?

Thu Aug 16, 2001 6:06 am

OdiE:

BA is indeed not returning to Kuala Lumpur - that is confirmed for now.

Airtours refuelled at KUL and on certain days both 767s (each heading in opposite directions) were present at the gates at the Satellite Terminal at around 9pm-ish.

Airtours used to filll the void of bargain fares to Oz from the UK - but 'thanks' to the alliances of scheduled airlines - fares fell to rock-bottom in competition with each other. Airtours announced that they could no longer operate as their fares were only slightly cheaper than scheduled carriers. Sadly this means that the alliances have actually won against the consumer as last weeks 'Sunday Observer' pointed out...'Cheap fares to Australia will now perhaps become a thing of the past as Charters pull-out from this Winter'.

I certainly know of people who have sat on a Charter to Sydney - they said it wasn't that bad. If you think about it over 24 hours on a 767 to Sydney - that's what Royal Brunei offers today and what Gulf Air and many others offered until recently.

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