Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:16 am

I read this announcement this morning:

"British Airways has squeezed an extra 123 seats into planes flying to the Caribbean, Florida and
Mexico, making them as cramped as most charter flights. BA's B777s economy section now seats 362
passengers instead of the usual 197. Although the planes are owned by British Airways, they are
managed by a subsidiary, AML, and crewed by the staff of Flying Colours, a charter airline.
British Airways changed the layout of the planes without informing customers."

What is this all about!? I would not be a very happy BA customer. There are a number of things
that can be thought about here: customer service, professionalism, and the all-confusing
codesharing/who manages who. Further, if I thought I was flying British Airways, I'd expect to be served by BA F/A, NOT by a charter airline. Thoughts?
Bonjour Chef!
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

What is happening to the sizes of the other classes? I suppose they are being drasticly downsized or eliminated.
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 9:41 am

This has been happening for some time on some of their Carribbean services.
It's not the best way to go about winning friends and keeping repeat business by using a Charter configuration and selling it as a full BA product. It would be slightly different if it was being sold as a "Charter/Package".
Basically, they've made some of their 777's into a 10 across Y cabin for these routes. Not pleasant at all.
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RE: British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 11:05 am

And they call themselves "the world's favourite airline"???
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Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 11:27 am

Really, they should have bough additional 747s if they want that kind of Capacity, or - drop the BA name and market it like they used to with the tristars As British Airtours, a charter subsidary. If they dared to have a few pw or ge powered 747-400s, they could get them used a good prices. Unless they start discounting big time, i do think this is ripping off they're customers. The only other thing i could suggest would be to drop first and business class and outfit a 777 with about 400 seats in all economy 9 abrest usal seating, or a very small business class.

RE: British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 12:16 pm

someone on this forum raised this issue a couple of weeks ago... I have a printed timetable of BA where you can see that some 777s are cramped versions. Economy is 3-4-3 and there are 28 biz class seats. I don't know if the drawing is reliable but these seats seem to have a MUCH smaller pitch than the rest of their 777s.
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 1999 7:12 am


Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:49 pm

All of BA's 777s are not being converted as such. Only a few aircraft, which operate to MCO, MIA, and a few other leisure destinations will be changed. This operation is not a new one. For several years, BA operated DC10s with increased seating with Flying COlours cabin crew. BA will certainly NOT be cramming 300+ coach passengers onto a JFK-LHR type flagship route. These a/c are only used in tourist markets, where the consumer cares about the bottom line, not the seat pitch. In main markets, BA's 777s will continue to be among the most comfortable in the sky, now flying the Union Jack.
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Misinformed

Tue Jun 22, 1999 3:50 pm

Although true what you say FlyAA757, I really think BA are hurting themselves in a bad way. As they don't market these certain flights as a charter or leisure flight and for all intents and purposes it is sold as a BA flight with an appropriate BA mainline flight number and with no aircraft markings to say "operated by
Flying Colours" or similar like their other subbies, then the general public is going to think what a lousy airline.
What happens when they next want to fly on a more high yield routing - do you think they will say "BA was fine, let's do it again" or more likely "BA's seating was terrible. I can't fly on that plane type again. Let's see who else flies there".
Unless they tell people when they book they are getting a "charter" configured aircraft and seating, they are only hurting themselves in the long run. There are a lot of upset people in the English newsgroups about this seating and it's come to light now as there is action pending by one gentleman on BA's deceitful practice.
Again - nothing wrong to advise them when booking, but a poor show to not say anything. Cheers.
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Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: British Airways Doing The Unthinkable

Tue Jun 22, 1999 8:48 pm

I don't see the problem. Customers continually demand lower fares then compain when an airline take the initiative to facilitate this. The 777's cabin is virtually the same width as the 747, and no-one ever put 2-5-2 in one of those. And Finnair operate their MD11s (which DO have a narrower cabin) with a 3-4-3 cabin on all their international services, including the ultra-long haul sectors from Helsinki to San Francisco, Beijing, Osaka et al. You'd have to have a pretty wide butt to really notice any difference. Meanwhile more package holiday passengers to Florida can enjoy scheduled service (cos tour operators can afford the fare in their inclusive tour deals) instead of an Air 2000 or Monarch 757 which really IS too cramped for a longish trans-Atlantic haul (plus they have to stop for fuel in Bangor, and cos this the first US point of entry, everyone has to get off and clear customs there before flying domestically for another 4 hours down to Florida).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Which Would You Choose....

Wed Jun 23, 1999 4:39 am

Okay...now, with the topic of BA's new 3x4x3 seating in SELECT 777's (which is HORRIBLE), which would you prefer to have...3x3x3 seating with the regular legroom, or 3x4x3 seating with increased legroom? Remember...the 777 has almost the same fuselage width as the 747...

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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

Finnair MD11

Wed Jun 23, 1999 5:25 am

Are you absolutely sure about Finnair's md11s having 3-4-3 seating? I know
more than one person who has travelled on the FinnAir Md11, and they always
said it was 2-5-2 ... Just curious.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: Finnair MD11

Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:05 am

Finnair's MD11s OH-LGB and OH-LGC have 2-5-2 seating. In spring 2000 they will configure them into an unusual 3-4-2 configuration. I assume that the other two might have 3-4-3 as Finnair website states that their MD11 can seat up to 407 passengers.

Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am


Fri Jun 25, 1999 2:42 am

Again the importance of the 747 is shown. Why doesn't BA operate 747-400s down their? What about converting some of their older 747-100s into this type of aircraft. While there is nothing wrong with changing the seats, it is a little unethical not to notify a full fair paying passenger.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

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