UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 4:37 am

If you take a look at the majority of US airlines, AA, DL, CO, TWA, they have all bought the 747, but have all been ready to get rid of it. The only airlines it has worked for are NW and UA. If you take the EU and compare it to the US, it is roughly the same size, but almost every major carrier provides 747 service somewhere. BA, KLM, AF, LH, Olympic (for a while), Iberia, Alitalia, Swissair. They even fly a lot of these to the US, but if you look at US airlines, particularly the flights going to Europe, they are all 777's or smaller. What's the deal? Is it because the US airlines provide more direct service, thus not needing a 744-sized aircraft?

On the same page, if you look at the flights going to Asia from the US, a lot of them are being downgraded to 777's. However, all of the Asian majors are sending in their 744's to the US. But, aside from UA and NW, there isn't much direct service to Asia, i.e. point to point. So what's the deal with US airlines and the 747 not working for them, but for everyone else in the world?

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 4:40 am

You pretty much answered your own question. UA and NW are the only US airlines that have extensive Asian routes. That is the reason why both of those airlines opearte 747-400s in large amounts. While AA, CO, and DL do operate to Asia, it is not in the same frequency as UA or NW. Therefore the capacity issue does not play as large of a factor as it does for United and Northwest.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 4:51 am

Continental just opened new service from Newark to Tokyo using 777s. I do find it strange that we don't use as many 747s as Europe does. I remember going on 747s with TWA. It would be nice if US airlines would get some 747s back.
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 7:06 am

I remember several years ago, American was seriously thinking about ordering a few 747-400s if they got the ORD-NRT slot. At that time, it was awarded to United. American later got an ORD-NRT slot, but opted not to order the 744.
I think if Continental, Delta, and/or American all had extensive Asian networks, you might see some 747s in their fleets. Right now, They don't have the extensive Asian network United or Northwest has. I think American may order a few eventually because they currently have 3 asian destinations(Tokyo, Osaka, Taipei) and some unconfirmed rumours have said Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, and maybe even Hong Kong. I have just heard by mouth about Beijing, and Hong Kong by mouth, and AA has an office in Kuala Lumpur so that might say something. I think that if any US airline were to really get big in Asia, you might see some 747s with American flags by the rear wings.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 7:10 am

I hope to god AA would order the 744, probably not too likely as of now, but I agree with you Blink, that if they expanded into Asia, they will need the capacity. Also, I would almost bet that AA's next Asian destination will be Hong Kong. Looking forward to that.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
airbus380
Posts: 1575
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RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 7:13 am

All of those airlines bought -100 and -200 except for UA which bought the -400. The Classis 747s are old. Most airlines retired them when they were about to get 777 orders in. Most airlines these days are going for the widebody twins. The 747 won't be around much longer in the USA unless Boeing gets to work on the 747X design. GOD SPEED THE 747.

380
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 7:30 am

If AA were looking for an aircraft 744 size , wouldnt a 773 LR order be more likely?
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sat Aug 25, 2001 8:15 am

why the 744 when the 777-200 or 777-300 would work just as well?
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sun Aug 26, 2001 8:19 am

U.S. and Canadian airlines have increasingly turned to ETOPS twins for flights across the Atlantic due to economics and the changing nature of routes between North America and Europe.

When one compares the route maps of 20 and 10 years ago with today's, the trend toward point-to-point services that link more cities on the two continents directly, bypassing the traditional Eastern gateway cities of North America, is very apparent. Also, with the advent of long range twins and the A340, non-stop services have replaced one- or two-stop same-plane services that were common in the past. Another enhanced feature made possible by aircraft like the 757, 767, 777, 330 and 340 is daily service on routes that were once served 3-5 times weekly when 747s ruled the routes across the pond.

European airlines have increasingly followed the same trend as their U.S. and Canadian counterparts in flying more non-stop trans-Atlantic services with more ETOPS twins or A340s more often.
 
SouthRebels
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 3:31 am

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sun Aug 26, 2001 9:06 am

You said flights are being downgraded to 777's. I do not consider the 777 a downgrade. Sure, 747's are a marvelous aircraft, but actually they are less comfortable then 777's. Take UA for example, their 767's, 777's, and Airbuses have a seat width of 18", compared to their 747's whose is 17". Now, on paper an inch isnt a big deal. However, when you fly these aircraft you notice a big difference.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sun Aug 26, 2001 9:07 am

As agressive as CO is about expansion, and with Bethune's insider ties at Boeing, I don't find it out of the question to see 747-400s in CO colors within the next few years.

The question is will they be new builds or picked up on the after market...the first -400s are over ten years old now, and you gotta figure at least a few will be put up for sale once fresh A380s start chugging off the line,
 
Guest

RE: Why Doesn't The 744 Work For The U.S.?

Sun Aug 26, 2001 11:43 am

UA got their 744 work for the US domestic route.