SJC-Alien
Topic Author
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 1999 1:15 pm

Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 12:08 pm

Let me set the story up...and then we'll see if anybody else has noticed this about Kitty Hawk(KH) 727 take-off's...

In April of 1998, I was in Phoenix standing atop the middle garage taking photos. Kitty Hawk 727 landed, I got great photos of it taxing by the connector shoot, and the Co-Pilot was looking right at me. Didn't think much about it, and a while later, KH 727 taxi's for take off and I'm momentarily distracted by another jet as KH 727 rolls for take off. I hear a screaming noise only to turn around and see the KH 727 doing a near vertical hotdog take off after only rolling to about as far as the new America West wing at PHX(Phoenix - SkyHarbor, Arizona/USA) and damn near tail-standed the 727(for MY benefit I think....) on take-off,...off course I missed it,,as I wasn't expecting it.(I was video-taping)...they dropped the nose and powered out,,,but I've never seen a 727 take off like that.

Then, last night, at SJC(San Jose, California/USA) Kitty Hawk 727 with a white nose cone, again, in the fading twi-light of a beautiful orange/high cloudy sunset, after waiting about 20 minutes to depart...(this time, I had the video rolling...but not expecting a Hot-Dog'er) the 727 rolls about 1/3 to 1/2 the runway and again pulls a very steep rotate and again about 1 second later, pulls it back even farther(for MY benefit again...I think) into a very steep climb-out...which is never done at SJC. Most 727 from UAL or Delta or the freighters....normally use the standard take off roll. Has anybody else seen Kitty Hawk do this..? Please elaborate...!! Do you think the Pilots saw you and Hot-dogged a take for you..?

PS SFO Airline collectible show is 9/1...

I'll have the tape rolling at the show....ask for the Kitty Hawk take off and I'll show you...


SJC Alien

 
sharpnfuzzy
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 12:11 pm

Is there any chance of you putting that video online?.... i'd sure like to see it.
 
TimMSP
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 11:35 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 12:27 pm

There is a KH 727 that is comes to MSP fairly often. I've seen the same type of takeoff a couple of times. Never got a picture of it yet though.

It might be common thing with cargo pilots? I was at MSP last weekend and the NW 3 Speed Select 747 was in town - maybe for maintenance because this was the first I have seen it in person.

Anyways, 30R is about 10,000 ft long and a departure rush was going on. Somehow the pilot got permission to taxi onto 30R about 10,000 ft from the arrival end of the runway leaving only 9,000 ft. I thought this strange but what happened next was even stranger. I would say that within 6,000 ft the 747 had the main gear off the runway and was climbing out of MSP like a 757.

Was a remarkable sight.

Tim
 
AUS_Spotter
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:35 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 12:40 pm

AUS gets many Kitty Hawk cargo flights and I've never seen anything like that.

Jason
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 12:53 pm

On takeoff, they have altitudes they can't go above and speeds they can't go above. Beyond that, if you've got an empty jetliner and three throbbing Pratts not even working up a sweat, why not?!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Learjets out of PBI are notorious for it....(clearly the ones who've ALREADY disembarked their rich folk types and are going home.)

Be interesting to poll cargo jet jocks and see what other kinds of fun they have...not having to worry about Joe & Janet Airfare napping in the back with 140 other humps.
 
SJC-Alien
Topic Author
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 1999 1:15 pm

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 1:01 pm

Darn..
I have 'Zipshot' but don't know how to work it yet. So no download.....yet...

SJC has fairly normal a/c routines,,,,I've spent a lot of time at SJC over the last 30+ years...and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary like KH did.

"TIM"

Yes, a 747 IS very powerful..I've seen them do short/powerful take-off's at PAE and 777 also...just scream out of the runways at a high angle...the lucky's..

"JASON"
are you within line of sight of the pilots..? and do you have a camera...? if so,,be ready,,they may Hot-Dog it out for you...


SJC Alien

 
CactusA319
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 1:05 pm


I've seen Amerijet pilots do it in 727-100's (this was a little while back). Pocket-rocket take-offs...awesome!!!
 
AUS_Spotter
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:35 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 2:07 pm

SJC Alien:

Yes on many occasions I am within sight of the pilot and I always have my camera with me if I'm out at the airport. I'd love to see them do something like that here!

Jason
 
Guest

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 2:21 pm

Tom,

My guess is that they have a light load and are just having a little bit of fun. After all no pax on board to complain!

On a similar note, I was at OAK a couple of weeks ago and watched the US Marshall's MD87 take off in a similar manner. It departed from 27L at the north field. After a short take off roll, she pulled up into a very steep climb. It almost looked like it was going to stall and then at about 2000', she lowered the nose to a more normal climb attitude. I guess they wanted to give the prisoners in the back a little bit of a thrill.

Richard
 
SJC-Alien
Topic Author
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 1999 1:15 pm

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sat Aug 25, 2001 11:10 pm

Jason,

keep that camera ready...you may get lucky...


Richard,

are the prisioners chained in..?

Alien

 
DE727UPS
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sun Aug 26, 2001 6:22 am

When you fly a jet you rotate and initially climb at certain speeds that depend on your takeoff weight. If you are empty, which isn't all that rare in the freight business, (don't ask me how we make any money) the pitch attitude at V2 plus 10 can approach 20 degrees nose up...pretty impressive. It's fun to fly a plane that light and see what it can do....I don't think of it as "hot dogging" or whatever.

You don't see it from a spotters perspective....but a 727 coming down as fast as it can is a lot more impressive than one going up as fast as it can...he he he.....
 
doug_or
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sun Aug 26, 2001 6:49 am

i work as a kittyhawk ramp rat and PDX, (only with arrivals, not departures, so I've never seen a crazy t/o. However, A few weeks back the pilot TOTALY dicked with the nose marshaller. he was swerving all over the centerline and driving the nose marshaller insane! It wasn't untill she saw the pilot laughing that she got what was going on.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
SJC-Alien
Topic Author
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 1999 1:15 pm

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Sun Aug 26, 2001 1:57 pm

ok...good stories..


DE727UPS:

you're right..I have a video shot way back in about 1986 at SJC of a FedEx 727 dropping like a rock to 30L....then bouncing up about 20ft after nailing the runway....

the Roadway Global Air 727's and the Capitol Cargo 727's that used to land at SJC in the AM were always doing something out of the ordinary.......bouncing big time,,,and then the usual engine surge and backfire of flame out the engine...pieces of ^$#&^()..!

Doug_or:

that's a good one,,ha ha ....have they ever turned on the nose gear lamp on ya..?


SJC Alien
 
AM744
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Mon Aug 27, 2001 4:45 am

They should be careful about those take-offs. A TAESA DC-9-32 stalled a few months ago at Urapan,Mexico. 19 people were killed. The airplane was empty, bound for a short travel to MEX(40 minutes away) and it still stalled. That sure was a hotdog. You just can't pull the plane as far as you want to.
 
nikonF100
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 3:21 am

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Mon Aug 27, 2001 5:42 am

Ummmmm AM...TAESA has been shut down since 1999.
 
AM744
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Kitty Hawk 727 Hot-dogs

Mon Aug 27, 2001 1:20 pm

You're right Nikon. It has been longer since the accident, but anyway a very steep take-off caused it.