krisworldB777
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 10:28 pm

Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:25 am

LAJES, Azores Islands -- Investigators were trying to figure out why an airliner with more than 300 aboard was forced to make an emergency landing without power.

The "miracle" landing by the charter jet bound from Toronto to Lisbon left 50 passengers injured. Passengers were screaming as the Air Transat plane hit the runway, bursting its tyres and spilling fuel.

The plane had glided for 18 minutes after losing engine power on Friday.

"Only the pilot's skill prevented a tragedy," Alfredo Cruz, a commander at Lajes Field, a U.S. Air Force base on the island, told the Portuguese news agency Lusa, according to The Associated Press.

Passengers put on life vests and were expecting the plane to ditch in the ocean as it descended rapidly and the pilot struggled for control.

Aviation officials speculated that the Airbus A330 may have begun leaking fuel about 65 miles off Terciera Island, one of nine islands in the Portuguese Azores chain about 900 miles from Portugal.

Portuguese aviation investigators arrived at the island airport on Saturday. Canada's Transport Ministry and Transportation Safety Board are also participating in the investigation.

Passengers described the panic that swept through the cabin during the landing.

"People panicked and screamed. We lost altitude quickly and the plane depressurised and jerked about," the AP quoted passenger Joao Gaspar as saying.

Renato Marcelino described the emergency landing as "brutal ... horrible … everything you could imagine," Reuters reported.

Marcelino said many passengers began shouting and praying as the plane lost altitude.

"We all got in position to crash, the attendants began to shout, 'Hold on' and things like that. (Then) people at the windows began to say, 'Land, we see land.' It was the base."

Daniel Rodrigues of Toronto described the flight attendants as "hysterical."

"One of them was swearing, and the one making the announcement that we had to make an emergency landing sounded very scared," Reuters quoted him as saying. "Once people heard her voice, all the old people started praying."


***
The aircraft involved was an Airbus 330-200
 
Twotterwrench
Posts: 1087
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RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:30 am

If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:32 am

Can you imagine enduring an ordeal like this, survive the impact in the ocean, only to be devoured by a shark after your raft capsizes?
 
delta-flyer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:47 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:38 am

Well, Matt, at least our relatives can sue!

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:39 am

Talk about unpreffesional(sp?) flight attendants. I think the media is blowing the whole thing out of proportion. There was nothing miraculous about the landing in my opinion, gliding for 18 minutes from 30 000 feet isin't that long.
 
DELL_dude
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 2:58 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:49 am

"If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!" - I like that quote
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 9:53 am

Oh, Come on guys, This could very well easily happen on a Boeing Aircraft (In Fact it has before on a 767) Yeah, The engine(s) were/was restarted. but still. I wish you people would stop bashing Airbus, I like Boeing too. But I also like Airbus... Two Quality Planemakers in two different worlds. I LOVE EM BOTH.
 
Mark_D.
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 9:55 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 10:03 am

CYKA aw c'mon, don't be making like "Talk about an unprofessional (sp!) CYKA", with disses like these. Anyway a lot of the news stories are interesting, Portuguese ones included. Here's one y'might want to have a quick look at

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/national/010825/666620.html
 
America West
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RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 10:06 am

Critter592,

Well said.

"One of them was swearing, and the one making the announcement that we had to make an emergency landing sounded very scared," Reuters quoted him as saying. "Once people heard her voice, all the old people started praying."

That is crazy!! Swearing? Now that is very unprofessional. Flight Attendants have the right to be scared just like everybody else, but swearing and screaming is not going to help the situation. Their job is to keep everyone calm and prepare them for what might happen next. You can't keep everyone calm if you aren't calm yourself.




 
DeltaAir
Posts: 1059
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RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 10:18 am

The incident sounds a little bit more serious from passenger accounts then what was first thought. An A330 just doesn't run out of fuel unless it was losing fuel or wasn't loaded with the correct amount in the first place. I think it is too early to tell what really happened with all the differing opinions coming out from passengers. What I don't understand is if the aircraft was gliding for only 10-35 minutes, why was there a worry about ditching? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most airplanes have a significant gliding capability, especially without fuel?
 
Sonic99
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 10:24 am

The one thing that intrigues me about this article is inconsistency in the story. I don't mean to be picky or anything, but the story is filled with holes.

Example:

The "miracle" landing by the charter jet bound from Toronto to Lisbon left 50 passengers injured. Passengers were screaming as the Air Transat plane hit the runway, bursting its tyres and spilling fuel.
-> This clearly indicates that fuel remained in the tanks...


The plane had glided for 18 minutes after losing engine power
-> Wouldn't this denote some sort of engine failure?

... the Airbus A330 ... begun leaking fuel about 65 miles off Terciera Island
-> All other reports that I've read indicated a loss of fuel and that the tanks were dry.


If the tanks were dry, then how would this a/c "spill fuel" on landing, moreover, if there was fuel in the tanks then why would there be an engine failure? Could this indicate some other problem with fuel lines or the fuel feed to the engines?

I'd be interested to know how much fuel remained onboard after the landing.


BTW: "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going".....

An Air Canada 767 completely ran dry of fuel on a flight from Montreal to Vancouver and the pilot glided the aircraft to an unused airfield near Gimli, Manitoba (north of Winnipeg - which is half way between the departure and destination). The aircraft thus became known as the "Gimli Glider" (C-GAUN). You'll find photos here on Airliners.net ... more info on that at:
http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html

Cheers,

Stephan
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Mon Aug 27, 2001 7:38 pm

Twotter and DELL,

GET A LIFE!!!!!!!
 
GOT
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 6:44 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:42 am

Unprofessional FA is the last thing you should hace onboard an airliner. It's in cases like this that they are rally needed.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:47 am

Just to clear things up, the Gimli Glider incident happened because not enough fuel was loaded (Canada was going metric at the time). In this incident, it seems an uncommanded and unstoppable fuel dump was to blame, so it was the aircraft's fault. Still, it seems Canadian pilots know how to glide, so don't worry when flying AC , AT or C3!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Sonic99
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:54 am


777,

Thanks for clearing that up. It wasn't my intention to equate the two mishaps as it may have appeared. Indeed, one ran out of fuel (AC) due to inadequate fuel load, while the AT was losing fuel. My point was that in each case the situation exacted supreme pilot skill in landing aircraft with no thrust - in essence gliding the aircraft to safety - no small feat.

Stephan
 
DLL10
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2001 3:09 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 3:37 pm

I agree with Twotterwrench "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!".

The 330 has a history of things like this happening. The newer 200s even have an overproportional occurence of braking problems too. Any airline that still orders them must be nuts.

About improfessional F/A's : The worst i have seen are on LTU (and that goes for the last few years only as tehy were a lot better in teh 80s and early 90s). Now they don't even speak english anymore. When they had to abort a takeoff due to the fact that engine number one had just sucked in two large herons, they instructed us to "remain comb". I didn't quite intend to fix my hairline at the time. Also that announcement came in a slightly scared voice, which is not very comforting, considering the fact that it was no real emergency. What would the same flight attendant act like in a really bad situation?! I have had several bad experiences with FA's on LTU. They have significantly reduced their crew training and also their aircraft maintenance.
A while ago thir newest 332 D-ALPA had troouble with the brakes in YYZ. Our pilot didn't even know where in the manual to find the exact description of the gauge that showed unusual readings for the brakes. They had to call in AC staff to reset the gauge. The D-ALPA by the way is still frequently grounded due to brake problems.

I will not fly LTU again unless they get their cabin service, their crew training and their safety strategy back to where it has been.
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 3:58 pm

777236ER:

Get you facts straight, the whole problem was set in motion due to a badly soldered fuel sensor in the 767. Read the article, its right there. Talk about sloppy worksmanship.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:05 pm

Stephan, it is possible to loose fuel after the engines run dry, depending on the construction of the fueltanks.
If the outlet from where fuel is extracted is not in the lowest part of the tank during flight, a change in pitch (such as would typically happen during landing) or a rupture in the tank or a pipe (as might happen during a particularly hard landing, especially if it were a weak joint) could cause spillage of fuel.
Another possibility is that what was described in the press as fuel was actually hydraulics fluid. During a landing hard enough to blow tires, maybe a hydraulic line in the landing gear burst, leading to liquid to end up on the runway.
I wish I were flying
 
hnl-jack
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 10:34 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:24 pm

Now I'm not a commercial pilot, but I receintly flew a major airlines B-747-400 simulator and one of the incidents I encountered was a power loss on all four engines at 37,000 ft. What amazed me was that the airplane continued to fly for many minutes with minimum altitude loss before we restarted the engines. It's my guess this airplane could have stayed aloft considerably longer, but the pilot controled the loss of altitude to land at the airport and he did. Pretty magnificant bit of flying if you ask me.
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:16 pm

Isn't it amazing? One incident of an A330, and every so called Boeing-fan is happy. Following some immature opinions here, nobody should fly B767 anymore (Lauda Air crash), B747 (TWA), MD11 (SR111) and B737 (rudder problems).

No comments  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

Gerardo

Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:33 pm

right gerardo,

i am allways astonished how biased some attitudes are. in psychology this is called motivated reasoning. that is, people recall or use only information that is suitable to bolster their self esteem. what might have hurt them so much?

r.
 
chepos
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:45 pm

Anyway it must have been extremelly scarry to be onboard that Air Transat flight that day. Thank God everything came out OK and the people got to land safely.
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3506
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Twotter

Tue Aug 28, 2001 6:07 pm

"If it's not Boeing ..."

Very smart, especially for an airplane technician.
I hope I never enter in a plane that you take care of.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 6:17 pm

With that huge wing and relatively short fuselage, the A330-200 should be a pretty good glider. I've spoken with a Swissair A330 pilot, who told me he thinks it actually has too much wing (it's the same one as on longer and heavier Airbuses), and that a level-pitch descent takes quite a while - passengers generally don't like nose-down descents. But in this case, You'd want all the wing you can get  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Thankfully, nobody was seriously hurt in this incident. I'm rather curious to find out what was the cause.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:36 pm

The Gimli incident was compunded by the fuel solenoids, true, but the root cause was miscalculations by ground crew which resulted in faulty data to the pilots.

Even without working fuel gauges, you can see how much fuel is in the tank by using a dipstick of sorts, and then calculate how much fuel is on board.

This calculation, however, went awry, and then pilots thought they had more fuel than they really did.
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:41 pm

Rabenschag

This might be a possible explanation. Another part in this puzzle is plaine and simple: maturity, or as said in german "gesunder Menschenverstand"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:45 pm

Yes! Yes! Yes! Think of all those lawsuits for trauma!!!
(search for the recent settlement for the Delta victim who was traumitized for a million dollars in an emergency landing!).
I'll start packing my bags now...

(just kidding guys...)
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:14 am

"If it's not Boeing ..."

Very smart, especially for an airplane technician.
I hope I never enter in a plane that you take care of.


I see some have yet to understand the definition of a joke.

 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:34 am

King767,

"I see some have yet to understand the definition of a joke. "

If you look into the posts made by these two idiots (Twotter and Dell) in the past, you would understand that they were very unlikely to be joking.

 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:34 am

LAUDA AIR, in a 767, 30.000 feet over land with reversin
engines!!!!!!! HALLOOOOOOOOOOOOO...........
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Twotterwrench

Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:19 pm

If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!

I second that!

Juul- Lay off..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Wed Aug 29, 2001 2:37 pm

The Gimli incident was compounded by the fact that the airplane should never have been released for flight by maintenance nor accepted by the flight crew.
Reason being that having more than one fuel quantity system inop (one tank) is a no-go item in practically every type commercial jet MEL.

On the other hand, good job by the Air Transat pilots. Smile
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
User avatar
c3000flyboy
Posts: 103
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RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Wed Aug 29, 2001 3:50 pm

Ok, now I know that quite a few of the folks on here are discussing the entire gas no gas topic whilst a few of you have taken on the bit of discussion pertaining to the flight attendants aboard this Air Transat flight. As a flight attendant for C3000 I would take the time to offer a little thanks to the flight attendants and there effective evacuation of the aircraft. In many accounts of the situation circulating throughout the media the flight attendants acted in an unprofessional manner. Whilst we (flight attendants) are trained for situations such as these to encounter it is a one in a milion chance.

While some of the passengers may not have known the severity of a ditching the majority of flight attendants know the chances are not good. We know the likelyhood of surviving a ditching is not great and, unfortunately, no one knows how one would act if faced with a similar situation. A few accounts from passengers expressed that the flight attendants were yelling at pax to help them. In the flight attendants defence they are doing as they are taught. We are taught to move people we feel would be best able to assist us, if needed, during the evacuation and seat them as close to the emergency exits as possible. At this point we do not ask politly for a passenger to move to the exit we tell them. if this means yelling at someone so be it. Yes, if they were swearing maybe that could be seen as unprofessional from a passengers point of view, and again one must put themselves in the postion, can you) I can only hope that if ever faced with this situation I would keep my composure, I think I would but I am not absolutly 100% certain.

Also, take the time to consider the flight attendants got everyone off that aircraft safely with exception to the few injuries commonly encountered during a slide evacation. They opened the doors, ensured their slides deployed effectivly and completed the evacuation in textbook terms. They did not jump out first yelling, ¨follow me!¨ That would have been unprofessional.

Good work to that cabin crew. We are all human.

C3000Flyguy
Emergency! Keep your head down, stay down!!
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:11 pm

will the plane be written off?
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

C3000flyboy

Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:49 am

Well said. In the end, the whole crew did their jobs. The pilots landed safely, and the flight attendants got everybody off safely.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Guest

RE: Air Terror For 300 Aboard A330

Thu Aug 30, 2001 2:02 am

The pilots really deserve praise for this because they DID bring the plane down in ONE piece. No one was killed or seriously injured, so I think the cockpit crew really demonstrated thier skills in this case. I don't think the aircraft type is relavant when the pilot has superior skills.

What a horrible ordeal for the passengers.

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