tristar4ever
Posts: 83
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Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 2:58 am

I was thinking about this, although it can aply to any other aircraft manufactuer, what have been boeings biggest mistakes, that have helped allow airbus to gain an increased market share.

Here are some of my ideas:

The 737-400 was launched too late, if it had been launched before the a320 then it could have won valuable orders that subsequently went to the a320. for example northwest, united and lufthansa.

Why where the next generation 737`s not given full `glass cockpit`s`? this would have allowed common pilot type rating between the 737 and 777. this is airbuses major selling point. perhaps it was felt that it was better to have common type rating with the existing 733/4/5 models?

Would it not have been better to develope a 787 4 engined aircraft in conjunction with the 777 in the early 90`s.
777-100 : shortened version of 200, ideal 762,763 replacement.lightened structure, reduced range.
777-200 : same as current non er model
777-300 ; same as current non er model
787-200 : same capacity of 200, but much longer ranged, ideal 742 replacement.
787-300 : same capacity of 300, but much longer range, comparable with the a345. ideal 744 replacement.


so what do people think. i`m not trying to start and AvsB war, just seeing what people think could have been done differently in the past. Of course the greatesr mistake ever made was not allowing other engine manufactuers to develope engines for the tristar, this led to the failure of the greatest aircraft of all time!


cheers,
mike
 
777-200LRpilot
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:02 am

I think the 738's, and the 739's do a fine job of assuaging any problems with the 320. I think Boeing will also counteract the 380 with the 744LR and the 777-200LR/300LR.
 
donder10
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:08 am

How can you compare the A380 to the B772LR????
 
GDB
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:08 am

A 4-engine 777 version would have undermined the sales pitch for the twin version. And why build a rival to the 747?
I do think that Boeing were a little surprised that the 737-400, an initial response to the A320, did not find more favour in the US, but it more than justified it's development in terms of sales elsewhere.
In terms of service entry, it was about comtemporary with the Airbus.
Still, all those A320 series flying for major US carriers must have been uncomfortable for Boeing.
Hence the real answer to the Airbus narrow-bodies, the 737NG.



 
Superfly
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:10 am

Maybe they shoud come out with a smaller 4 engine jet to compete with the A340 to avoid ETOPS?
I don't think Boeing has made too many mistakes. Airbus dosen't dominate the skies. I am glad to see some competition. I would also like to see more Ilyushin, Antonov, Yaks and Tupolevs giving Boeing and Airbus a run for there money.
As an enthusiest, I'd like too see more of a variety of new aircraft. Whith the exception of the 747 and A340, all the others made by Boeing & Airbus look rather ordinary.

Bring back the Concorde
 
777-200LRpilot
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:10 am

I agree with GDB-- what Boeing lost in the 734 it made up with other aircraft sales... like the 738 and 739.
 
OO-AOG
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:15 am

Tristar4Ever

Why are you so sure that Airbus sucess is just the result of Boeing's mistakes? Don't you think that, as an example, Airbus cockpit comonalty might be a valuable advantage for some operators....? I know that it's very difficult to admit for many american people on this website, but Airbus products are indeed excellent aircrafts, and therefore are selling well.
If I had to find ''mistakes'' on both side, I would say Boeing's retrieval of the VLA project and Airbus lack of replacement for the A310/A300s.
That's just my opinion anyway.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Superfly
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:25 am

OO-AOG:
I am an American and I love the A340!
I am also happy to see Airbus doing more innovative things than Boeing.
I love all plane and I don't praise one manufacture over another.
You should read my above post.
Bring back the Concorde
 
D L X
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:28 am

"I know that it's very difficult to admit for many american people on this website..."
Yup, about as difficult as it is for many a European to admit the very beneficial financing and political arm-twisting that Airbus gets to sell planes. So you should be careful when you proclaim to be holier-than-thou.

I also hope the anti-America and anti-Euro posts will end here with no need for reply.
 
tristar4ever
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:37 am

Airbus`s success if because they build great airliners, as do boeing. its just looking back seeing that if things had been done differently, either company could have the advantage.

perhaps airbus could have launched the a330 as a lighter and slightly smaller aircraft, creating a 767, a300/310 replacement. while the a340 could continue the role it plays today. this would have solved the current lack of a suitable a300/310 replacement.

If the 777 and `787` had been launched together as a joint project, much in the same way the a330/a3340 where, then it could have made each aircraft design equaly valuable.


 
slawko
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:38 am

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a westjet 737-700 FO and he was telling me that the 73NG's were designed without some of the 777 systems, becuase customers, actually southwest in particular did not want the plane to be as advanced as it could be so that they save millions in training pilots. That is also the reason that the plane has the optional feature of switching the glass display so that it shows the gauges in the -200 panel configuration. The overhead is identical to the -200 with the exception of a few switches. SO for many airlines it is cheaper to train crews on the aircraft.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
GDB
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D L X

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:53 am

While I agree with your general sentiments, both sides use arm-twisting and political pressure. A recent example being the pressure brought on to El-Al to cancel it's A330's.
 
OO-AOG
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:54 am

DLX my post wasn't anti american and definately not a launch of a A vs B war, yours is. Boeing has always been and will remain the reference in the States while Airbus has a false reputation of dangerous electronic gadget with a computer as the captain. I just wanted to underline that Airbus is making excellent and reliable planes as well and it's therefore normal that they take more or less half of the market, nothing to do we so called Boeing mistakes or government loans. If the A380 is as reliable and performant as the 747 is, then they will have done another sucessful step in the worldwide market.

Cheers
OO-AOG
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
777-200LRpilot
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:59 am

OK Folks... I am definetly biased toward one of the companies, but the thing we need to remember is the Airbus and Boeing are good for each other because it makes sure that there still is competition in the market. If Airbus wasn't there now, there wouldn't be any interesting new aircraft from Boeing... we'd still be in the 707 and the 737-100. And they would cost billions each because Boeing has a monopoly, and airlines could not afford them, and there would be an extreme lessening in the amount of air traffic in the world.
 
boeingmd82
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:08 am

OK, Back to the topic of "Boeing Mistakes".

I think Boeing was right to only offer the 777 in a twin configuration. ETOPS was not really an issue, since it was granted ETOPS right at launch. Plus the 777 was aimed at the DC-10 / L1011 market which it matched easily range wise. Now there are 777 models can fly just as far as an A340 with only two engines, cheaper for the airlines to maintain.

I think the only real "Mistake" that Boeing made was to under-estimate Airbus. They thought that airlines would be happy with the old 737 design, while United and other large carriers wanted an advanced 727 replacement and they found it in the 320. The Nextgens are selling well, but the 320 must be credited with giving Boeing a kick in the pants to let them know they just can't sit by and think airlines are going to take anything you feed to them.

Mistakes on the product side, I'd probably say the 747SP. Although it's a really cool airplane, there was just not a market for a long range DC-10, in the 70s- 80s when Hub and Spoke operations ruled, which is pretty much what it is. The seat/mile costs were higher than both the DC-10 and 747-100/200. At least we got 44, I'm not sure how many are flying now. I see a Mandarin SP here in Honolulu once in a while.

Well just my 2c.
 
eg777er
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:34 am

Boeing md82 - I agree with your sentiments. Boeing's biggest mistake was to underestimate Airbus.

And Airbus's? They still haven't produced a realistic, modern cockpit, 757/767 competitor. They're loosing a lot of market share for this - and frankly, the A300 and A310 don't cut it any more.

 
RJ_Delta
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 4:54 am

Hi:

Your are right, But now the things will change with the newest develope of the Boeing's planes like the 737 Next Generation (the next generation orders passed the A320 family orders), the 777LR and the 747-400LR. Now we have too see the new options of Boeing with the Sonic Cruiser (future 787?).


RJ_Delta.
 
777-200LRpilot
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:02 am

I agree with RJ_Delta.
 
D L X
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 6:03 am

"DLX my post wasn't anti american and definately not a launch of a A vs B war, yours is. "

Mallarkey. Before you get upset at me... you should reread your post. You single out Americans, in our pride, not being able to admit Airbus accomplishments while you conveniently forget there was more than engineering that got Airbus where they are. Evidence: the relative success of the A300 program compared to the A320 and A330/340 programs. It's not A vs. B. It's just bringing an idea to your attention to be careful about.

PS: GDB - absolutely in the El Al case. But, you and I both know it happens on a much greater scale on the Airbus side. Hell, Boeing gets the shaft from the US because they can't sell to countries like Libya.



Back on topic, I agree that the 737NG is technologically very cool, but comfort-wise, lagging behind the 320 series. I can finally say that after flying brand new US 319s and 320s and CO and AA 738s. Yes, the airline determines the configuration, but it seems that the 320 allows the airline to configure better comfort than the competitors. However, I can't go so far as to say that it was a MISTAKE to make the 737NG the same width as the previous 737s. Doing otherwise would have prevented a lot of the cost savings of fleet and manufacturing commonality. I can say that I really don't want to see a 737-1000. Hopefully, they will at least find a new way to configure the fuselage.
 
Guest

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 6:41 am

Boeing's biggest mistake is not buying out Airbus when they had the chance!  Big grin
 
GDB
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 6:44 pm

As if they'd have the chance!
The idea that Airbus's success has been built on political arm twisting is a bit exaggerated, all those sold in the US?
AF buying 767/777s?
LH still buying 747's, the cargo division taking all those MD-11Fs?
To move on, I doubt if we will see a 737-1000.
Not that I've any idea what an all-new aircraft would look like, the last attempt was the 7J7 false-start with those propfans.
Now if Boeing had pressed ahead with that, it would have been truly a mistake!



 
petertenthije
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 7:19 pm

Not continueing the MD-11F program. I can understand they didn't want to have the pax MD-11 (to much competition for existing products). But at the time they didn't have a truely popular cargo plane the size of MD-11.
Attamottamotta!
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 7:27 pm

Probably either the 757-300 or the Sonic Cruiser. Why is the sonic cruiser a mistake...

more cramped airports = more competition for slots = less but bigger aircraft are needed.

fuel will become more and more expensive so its gonna make more economic sense in the future to build bigger aircraft with better fuel economy.

What is one hour off a transatlantic flight? It will cost less to fly on a standard service, that will be an hour longer.

Whoever started to design an airplane where they don't know whats gonna power it??

Maybe the sonic cruiser is an attempt to try and replace concorde..I don;t know, but I would bet a lot of money that the Sonic Cruiser will be a disaster.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 10:42 pm

Tough!!!!!
I think it´s becouse Boeing is too conservative in their thinking.........I´m I right or I´m I right??
Wasn´t it US-pilots that screamed the most over 2-engine aircrafts over the oceans in 70´s/80´s?????
Well, Airbus proved them wrong ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!
*pardon my spelling in english*
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Philly Phlyer
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:52 pm

Solnabo:

I believe you need a history lession. It was Boeing with the 767 that pushed 2-engine flights over the oceans and pushed hard for more relaxed ETOPs guidelines. This was the market that made the 767 a success. It had been late to market as a large twin (market started by A300) and this was how Boeing "made" a market for the late entry. McDonald-Douglas fought it because relaxed ETOPs negated the need for a third engine and the eliminated the major market for the DC-10 (later MD-11). Airbus took a hit because the A300/310 wasn't designed for that market (it was more a short and medium haul aircraft) and the A330/340 was the late response.

I agree that sometimes Boeing is too conservative (at least for my taste) on what it introduces in the commercial aviation lines, but the company has one problem that Airbus doesn't have right now. Boeing has to turn a profit and has to answer to its shareholders. [Shareholders and their lawyers can get quite nasty if a company gambles its future and is wrong.] Since Airbus is a marketing and manufacturing consortium and not a real stand alone company, only its participating companies have to worry about the bottom line. As such, Airbus can take more chances right now.

Quite frankly, Airbus is doing just what Amtrak is doing in the US right now. The parallels are very similar. In the US, Amtrak is under guidelines to go off government life-support in two years. As a result, Amtrak has been spending large sums of money on items (station upgrades, track improvements, new train sets, etc) that should have a positive impact on the bottom line when it is on its own (and when it couldn't afford to do it).

Airbus is doing the same thing right now and the A380 is a the example. The A380 will be a wonderful airplane, that cannot be argued. The question is whether there is a big enough market to support it. [That is something that cannot be argued right now, only time will tell.] Anyone in business could have told you that Airbus would build the A380 two years ago for one simple reason. The funds would be made available right now to develop the airplane, but such might not be available or as easy to get in 5 to 10 years if Airbus eventually is forced to incorporate and go it alone as a stand alone company. Airbus had to build it now or, possibly, it never could.

Back to the topic of Boeing's biggest mistakes, I believe Boeing's biggest mistakes have been in customer relations and not on product development. Following is my list:

> Moving their headquarters to Chicago [A total waste of money at the wrong time.]

> Not admitting to the problem with their 737 rudder system and fixing it earlier. [Anyone who thinks their stonewalling and continually blaming the airlines and pilots didn't affect their relationships with United and US Airways is fooling themselves.]

> Being too arrogant with some of their major customers. [Strike two in their relationship with US Airways was their insistence on suing the carrier because it had cancelled 737 / 757 orders when the carrier was struggling and didn't need the capacity. The irony is that it also was at a time when Boeing couldn't keep up with production demand for it's narrowbody products and was missing delivery dates. Several years ago, I was on a SEA to PHL flight with a marketing rep from Boeing who told me that Boeing could have had the widebody order from US Airways (for 767-300s and 777s instead of A333s) if Boeing management had not insisted on keeping the lawsuit alive. He was very angry about the whole thing. This was two months before the A333 order was announced, but he said Boeing management had blown the sale by being assholes about the cancelled Boeing narrowbody orders and later A320 series orders. As he put it, "we have won a multi-million dollar settlement, but will loose a multi-billion dollar sale in the process. Some victory"]
 
gt1
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sun Sep 02, 2001 6:08 am

Making Phil Condit the CEO. Makes me realize any of us could run Boeing.

gt1
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sun Sep 02, 2001 6:34 am

I in a way agree that the 737-400 wasn't one of Boeing's better programs. For one thing, the range of the 734 was way shorter than what Airbus offered with the A320.

However, Boeing quickly made for that with the Next-Generation 737 program, which did enlarge and improve the 737 design so it effectively became a 727-200 replacement (especially the 737-800 model).

Another not-so-great success was the 747SP. The 747SP was essentially a 747 with -200 fuel capacity but shorter fuselage (e.g., lighter weight) so it could fly JFK-NRT nonstop. Unfortunately, only a few airlines bought the plane, and one potentially huge customer for the 747SP (JL) declined to buy the plane due to the smaller payload, choosing instead to modify 747-200's with extra fuel tanks so it could fly JFK-NRT nonstop.
 
Guest

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:16 pm

not utilising long beach. they bought MDD and eliminated all but 1 program. the sonic cruiser should be built there.

 
Guest

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:20 pm

Here we go again.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Sun Sep 02, 2001 10:14 pm

I think Boeing's biggest mistake was choking on its own success. A few years ago when their 737 deliveries were so delayed, airlines had the window of opportunity to check out the 'baby buses' from Airbus. The results are all around you: USAirways has A319s and A320s and now A321s; United has A319s and A320s. Northwest, America West, Air Canada and others are making the Airbus narrow-body family VERY sucessful here in North America.

Success begets success. And basically what happened is that people LIKED the baby Buses very much for a whole variety of reasons (wider cabins than Boeing; MUCH better entertainment technology, etc.). Technically speaking, they must be holding their own operationally with the carriers, or else you would not see them so frequently here.

Bottom line, Boeing's 'problems' in delivering aircraft gave Airbus the chink in the armor that they needed to make inroads here. And, boy, have they ever. Come to think of it, maybe Boeing didn't choose to move their HQ to Chicago...maybe they were ASKED to leave!  Yeah sure
 
757man
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Mon Sep 03, 2001 12:24 am

I think Boeing may have axed the MD-11 a bit too soon. They could have kept it alive in freighter form only. I'm sure they could have sold a few more if they tried to market the product. Just look at how popular the tri-jet is with the likes of FedEx.

What about the 717 (AKA MD-95)?? It seems to sit next to the rest of the Boeing product line up very uncomfortably. The capacity of the twin jet is too small to compete with the A320 family (of which the 737NG takes care of) and too large to compete with the CRJ and ERJ-145.

Perhaps Boeing should consider developing a regional jet of it's own? The CRJ has sold very, very well and there is a large market for 50 seater airliners. In many ways, the CRJ is a flawed design, and if Boeing designed something in the same category but with a slightly bigger cabin, they could be onto a winner.

However, don't assume the 757-300 is a mistake yet. It is still early days, and those of you with good memories will remember the first few years of the 757-200's life...Very poor orders until 1989.
 
GDB
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Mon Sep 03, 2001 2:44 am

Boeing are planning an RJ with the Russian aerospace industry, they must be thinking of big sales in a rejuvinated Russian economy, as the rest of the RJ market is very crowded and rivals have a big head start.
Seems risky, if they are really hoping for a lot a sales in Russia to launch the programme.

 
Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:26 am

Sorry about being a little late to the party, but I thought this sounded a little interesting, as the thread allows the oppotunity for insightful comments.

Boeing's Mistakes

1) Underestimating the A320. This cannot be stressed enough. Boeing's failure to accurately estimate the impact Airbus would have with the A320 is the greatest failure in recent memory. It wasn't until the much publicized defection of UA from the 737 Classics to the A320 that Boeing finally woke up.

2) The delay in launching the 737NG Program. As mentioned above, Boeing really missed the boat with the United order. They could have had the opportunity to make a similar arrangement with their largest customer as with the 777 Program. Instead, they decided to push the inferior 737-400, and suffered the inevitable consequences. It wasn't until Southwest asked for a better 737 that Boeing finally got its act together, and produced a competitive (and in at least one case, superior) narrow-body. This can be attributed to. . .

3) Boeing's arrogant attitude in the '80's to mid-'90's. As well explained by Philly phlyer above, Boeing's approach to their customers, particularily their U.S.-based ones, was downright attrocious. When one believes one's place is assured is when you find out it is not!

4) Certain derivatives of programs. In the long run, I would call both the 747SP (should have developed a longer-range 747-200 instead) as well as the 747-300 (should have concentrated on the -400, and brought it out sooner) if not mistakes, than at least short-sightedness. Along this same line, you could call both the original 727 (i.e. -100) and 737 (i.e. -100) as ignorant to what the market was truly asking for and needing - more capacity.

What are NOT mistakes

1) The 767-400ER and 757-300. Both these aircraft were derivatives of previous, successful programs. Especially with the 753, these are 'minimum change' derivatives that are designed to appeal to a more select customer base. In addition, one must take into account that the future of these programs are still very much undecided, and any classification is premature, at best.

2) The Sonic Cruiser. How anyone can classify a program that has yet to be launched a failure is quite frankly beyond me. Especially one that has the potential to be ranked as one of the most revolutionary commercial jetliners in history, among the select group of the Comet, the 707 and the Concorde.

Just my thoughts.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:58 pm

This may be way out there but, I feel Boeing should have pressed ahead with:
1. a wide bodied version of their venerable 727.

2. the propfan fuel saving 7J7

3. NOT ABANDONED THEIR LATEST FORAY INTO THE HYPERSONIC ARENA. I thought the sketches and pictures of this hypersonic bird for the new millenium was a looker and had the potential to be the second coming of the 707 ushering in the new jetage!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:00 pm

This may be way out there but, I feel Boeing should have pressed ahead with:
1. a wide bodied version of their venerable 727.

2. the propfan fuel saving 7J7

3. NOT ABANDONED THEIR LATEST FORAY INTO THE HYPERSONIC ARENA. I thought the sketches and pictures of this hypersonic bird for the new millenium was a looker and had the potential to be the second coming of the 707 ushering in the new jetage!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
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zippyjet
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DC-8 Information

Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:11 pm

Please help me with this: I remember the early DC-8 passenger jets flown by Eastern and Delta had a retro-cool prop like passenger cabin. What I'm referring to, is the fact that these birds had curtains on their windows instead of the standard pull down shades, gaspers, reading lights and oxygen were all mounted in front of you on the seat back and, these jets featured a vertical flourescant bright light mounted on the upper right corner of your seatback. I'd like to know what year, which series and the reasons McDonnal Douglas did away with this classic cabin layout. I'd like to see photographs of these early DC-8 passenger cabins on airliners.net. Thank you for any information you can furnish.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
teva
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 6:18 pm

Boeing's biggest mistake ????
Arrogance and ignorance in the 70s and in the 80s, when they didn't believe Airbus could be a serious competitor.
They just started to wake up at the end of the 80s, early 90s, when they realized that the 320 family was a success, and with the arrival of the 330/340 family.
Nana....
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
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hias
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 6:23 pm

Boeing's biggest mistake is that they were not aware that Airbus is/was a real competitor and have better inventions realized ? Who realized fly-by-wire first ? How about glass cockpits ?

Boeing relies on old blueprints. The blueprint of the B737 is more than 40 years now and Boeing hasn't developed any new aircraft since the B777, which is more than 10 years old now...
 
Greg
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:26 am

Looking back, the 720 and 747SP appear to be the only real sales failures. The 743 lead to the 744 and it's too early to determine the 753 or 764.
 
Guest

Hias

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:22 am

I can tell you that Airbus did not "invent" fly-by-wire. I believe it was first introduced in some military aircraft, but first became noticed in the Concorde. As for glass cockpits, the 733 was introduced with a glass cockpit before the A320. I am not sure when the first glass cockpit was introduced though?

"Boeing relies on old blueprints. The blueprint of the B737 is more than 40 years now and Boeing hasn't developed any new aircraft since the B777, which is more than 10 years old now...

Please, let's not go to this level of ignorance again....

-Tom
 
airbus380
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:29 am

Not making the 747X sooner and letting Airbus take advantage of them with the A380.
 
mandala499
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RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:11 am

The big mistake was the 767-400 !
Should have been 777-100 instead!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:22 am

Boeing's biggest mistake EVER!!!

Not having an SST. If they'd built that when they had the chance, and really forced on the American Civil Aero-scene, (a la 707 & 747), Lord only knows where we'd be now. They really had a shot with that one too. Oh well, best of luck to the soni-cruiser.
And yes, oh yes, are they waaaaaaaaaaay to conservitaive in their thinking or what? What was that new CEO's last job, funeral parlor mngmt?
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
User avatar
hias
Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2000 4:17 pm

King767

Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:35 pm

Ok, Airbus wasn't the first manufacturer that used fly-by-wire, but it was the first one using it on civil aircraft. The glass cockpit used in B737 is not better than that on the A300. The major step forward was done with the A320...

By the way the B737 has the same fuselage diameter as the B707...
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:34 pm

When I think about it, I blame Boeing for the money they wasted back in the 1960's with their SST. If they hadn't pushed the swing-wing concept they would have realized that it wouldn't have worked. I used to blame the environmentalists for their ignorance and lack of SST knowledge, but then Boeing was being funded by the government and they voted 49-47 to cancel it; very slim.

Had Boeing not gone through 3 redesigns to come up with a shape that was similar to NASA's recently cancelled HCST, may be they wouldn't have pissed congress off for wasting tax payers money. And why did they have to go M3.0? Or M2.7 or even with HCST @ M2.4? Both were obviously bigger than the Tu-144 or Concorde, it would have worked.

But, no.  Angry

I'll quote a Russian cosmonaut from a PBS special on the ISS:

"For Americans if you want to try something new, go all the way; if it doesn't work, it will never."

The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:26 pm

IMHO, underestimating Airbus, and not dealing with them adequately....whetever way you look at it, over the last 30 years, Airbus share has gone from 0 - 50%, Boeing from 100% (theoretically, obviously about 80-90%) down to 50%.....Boeing could have rode Airbus had they released the 737NG sooner, and most especially, had they proposed the 747X sooner.....Airbus had already pumped huge amounts of money into the A380 befoe th abttle began, Boeing could have drained their main buyers with a simpler 747X derivative, not A380 size, but adequate enough for airlines not to want to take a risk with the A380......
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Boeing`s Biggest Mistake?

Thu Sep 06, 2001 10:58 am

Stopping the MD-11 production.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...

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