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Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sat Sep 01, 2001 10:50 pm

I was thinking about this, although it can apply to any other aircraft manufactuer, what have been Airbus's biggest mistakes, that have helped allow Boeing to gain an increased market share.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:03 pm

Not fair at all!!!!
Boeing Comercial have been around for 70 years???
Airbus 30?
"GOOD WORK, AIRBUS and kick ass" Smile/happy/getting dizzy))))
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airbus380
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:27 pm

Airbus has made no mistakes.
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:32 pm

Well, let's see...

The A340-200 wasn't exactly a hot seller.
The A310 should have gotten a larger wing, as this is what kept it from effectively competing with the 767ER versions.

That's pretty much all I can think of.
 
flpuck6
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:36 pm

Airbus hasn't been competing against Boeing long enough to say they've made any mistakes.

Although I cannot back this up with my own techinical explanation, I have been told by reputable people that the A340 doesn't have a great climb and cruise speed relative to the 747 or the 777.

They're pretty much coming up hand in hand with Boeing, if not suprassing them. I love watching this market competition.

-Chris
Bonjour Chef!
 
L-188
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:39 pm

Yup, the original short body A340 and the A310 where lemons. The former more then the latter.

The big refuse to support any SIA A-340 that Boeing took as a trade in, also was a media nightmare for them.

As is their refusal to admit to deficencies in the flight system on their aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ptica2000
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 12:07 am

Airbus is still making a big mistake. They haven't made a real 757/767 competitor.

A380 is also under a question.
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 12:18 am

Biggest mistake Airbus made was in their A340-200/300 program putting the sluggish CFM56-5C engine instead of the 40,000lb thrust P&W 2000 or RR RB211 series used on the Boeing 757.
 
gerardo
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:31 am

A mistake was surely the A340-200, which only got 28 orders, IIRC.

In my opinion, it was also wrong to offer the A330 only with 217t MTOW. THis was of course part of the initial product strategy: A330 for medium haul, and A340 for long haul. On the other hand, the newer versions of the A330 - the -200 and the -300 with 230t MTOW - seem to be good selling products.

Another mistake could be the lack of an aicraft, which would fit between the A321 and A332.

Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
BA DC-10
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:39 am

Well...it hasn't made too many mistakes...Boeing is more than twice the age of Airbus, yet Airbus is now equalling and even suppasing the orders Boeing get.

The A340 was a bit of a mistake, but hey, Boeing did the same thing with the 747sp.

Also maybe not creating a viable replacement for the A300/A310.

I dunno how anyone could class the A380 as a mistake!??
 
EGGD
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Ptica2000

Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:57 am

Er, i think the A321 is a direct competitor to the 757, well maybe not the -300..

Regards

Dan
 
Joni
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RE: Ptica2000

Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:22 am


Not having a plane between 321 and 332 isn't a "mistake" as such, more of a choice. Airbus doesn't have the money to develop all possible planes, and they made the choice to develop the 318, 345/6 and, of course, 380 instead.

In hindsight, the 342 was probably a project that cost them more than they made from it, so that's one error to start with.
 
777-200LRpilot
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:25 am

Boeing will counteract whatever Airbus can come up with the the 744LR.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:08 am

Airbus380: Airbus has made no mistakes.

Pride goeth before a fall.

Pete

"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
767-332ER
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:10 am

The A321 was built to become a competitor with the 757, but the A321 does not come close to competing with the 757. It was just not as good an airplane as the 757.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:17 am

777-200LRpilot,

Thanks for your insightful and to the point post, which is a real contribution to this discussion.... NOT!

767-332ER,

I'm curious: What is it that makes the A321 'not as good an airplane' as the 757?
 
cba
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:27 am

The A321 does not have the performance nor range to match the 757, and seats less people. The A321's only advantage is commonality with the A319/A320, other than that, the 757 has the edge.

Airbus's big mistake is not making a good replacement for the A300/A310. The A332 is too heavy to fly the medium and shorthaul routes that the A300 is great on.
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:29 am

Juul,

I figured you would be curious to 767-332's post.

I'm curious: What is it that makes the A321 'not as good an airplane' as the 757?

Seriously Juul, THINK ABOUT IT. Look at performance, sells figures, etc. The 757 may not be a better aircraft in your opinion. But to many airlines, it is.

The A321 is Airbus's 757 competitor, needless to say, the 757 is obviously a better plane for airlines. So, I would say that the A321 is not a mistake, but a failure compared to the 757. The A300/310 were not mistakes, again, more airlines thought the 767 is a better aircraft and they failed to compete with the 767 at a good rate. I think Airbus's biggest mistake is the A380, which has a good chance of killing Airbus itself. Just my 2 cents.
 
DeanBNE
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:39 am

*LOL for a mistake the A310 sold well.

*the A321 is more comparable with the 739 than the 752

*whilst the A342/343 could have benefited from a greater range and more powerful powerplants, this aircraft was invaluable to AI in gaining experience manufacturing a quad-jet. Interestingly, the 744 sales began its sales slump around the time of the A340 first flew

If any Airbus jetliner was to be a mistake my vote would be for the A340-200 (~27 sales)

Cheers
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:51 am

Boeing747-400,

An airplane being better or not depends not solely on it being heavier, being able to fly further, or any of these things. The A321 is only partly a competitor to the 757, and clearly indeed does not compete with it for the longer segments. And, in my opinion, it was never meant to do that. Note that this kind of range for a narrowbody is mostly needed in the US domestic market. Not surprisingly, this is where the largest numbers of 757s are. The US majors operate over 500 757s, or more than half the worldwide fleet. Most of these (e.g. DL, NW, AA, UA, UPS) chose the 757 years before the A321 entered service. In fact, if you take a close look, you'll see that most of the large 757 customer chose the aircraft beore the A321 showed up.

"Look at performance, sells figures, etc",

Comparing sales figures isn't really fair is this case, as the A321 only entered service over 10 years after the 757...
Since then, sales have been roughly equal, I believe (A321 sales are currently at 407)

Greetings Big grin (BTW, long time no see...  Wink/being sarcastic )
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 3:57 am

Airbus's Biggest Mistake

A310... That plane in my opinion is too fat, too ugly, and has too many fuel leaks
 
gt1
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:02 am

I would say that Airbus hasn't made "mistakes" that have allowed Boeing to increase market share, so much as they have done alot of things right to increase market share.

Yet, like everyone, they have made some mistakes. I think the biggest current mistake is an A380 with the cockpit on the main deck, which will most likely prevent loading cargo on the freighter version through the nose, as do the 747F, C-5 and the An124.

Other mistakes include, the CFM engine on the A342/A343 , not enough range on the A310 and A300-600, and some control law issues with the fly-by-wire and auto pilot systems.

From my experience, the biggest mistake they made with my company, was support/parts. They won't let you engineer your own repairs, and the parts are expensive and they get them to you when they want to, not when you need them.

But, overall, Airbus is an impressive story with a great product line. They are real competition for Boeing. And I'm a Boeing guy.

 
SQ325
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:06 am

The sidestick is a mistake but that is the only one.

Airbus got more orders then Boeing this year.
Their products are economic, and more and more traditional Boeing carriers buy Airbus products. That says all I think
We'll see how the A380 will work.
regards SQ
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:18 am

The sidestick is liked by many pilots, the only mistake they have made is not starting sooner!
Iain
 
SQ325
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:20 am

"The sidestick is liked by many pilots"
and disliked by many!
regards SQ
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:22 am

Biggest mistake's not having a physically-varied-enough product line, to please spotters!  Big grin

But, seriously, that's not much of a mistake. Carriers are flocking in droves to that line because of the cost savings all the parts, procedure, and crew training commonality it brings. Boeing on the other hand, some terrific airplanes (are there many out there who don't like the 767 or the 717, for instance, in their respective density classes?), also great for spotters too when you throw in all the older and legacy models still serving faithfully, but.. they're in tough, right now.

Anyway the 190-270 passenger density market's hardly been the best-selling one the past several years, so it looks like Airbus isn't under much incentive to partially address it with a 330-100, as an alternative to aging 310s. Not with the 380 so much in the spotlight, and even the 318 being worked on on the side as well. Maybe in a couple years though, like when Lufthansa`s ready for their 330s.
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:26 am


I think as time goes on the sidestick will go the way of the glass cockpit. Particularly for longhaul airliners, where it`s more of an ergonomics issue for pilots in their seats all those hours.
 
GDB
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:26 am

The A321 is just a growth version of the A320, some competion with the 757 at the lower end of the market, but 757 dates back 20 years and has bigger engines. A321 is doing what Airbus built it for, expanding the appeal of the narrow-body range for little cost.
I doubt if 757 will get any really big new orders, so it would be silly for Airbus to chase that market with an all-new aircraft. Smaller orders and top-ups will keep 757 ticking over in production terms for quite a few more years.
A310 could have done with a bigger wing in growth versions, but it was conceived with the European market in mind, unlike the 767 with the US transcontinental routes pushing it's spec. ETOPS eventually gave 767 the edge over longer ranges.
Airbus might have done better to offer V2500 engines as an option on A340, not that would have really solved the climb/cruise performance.
The A340-500/600 is the definitive version.
Too early to judge A380, IMHO Boeing have mishandled 747 development in recent years, the hurried reaction to the Far-East mini recession in 1997/8 cost them a head start on the then A3XX with the 747-500/600, when that project was axed. But Boeing had production problems then.
The years of will they, won't they, with the abortive study with Airbus on the proposed Very Large Airliner was odd. If was it a spoiler operation by Boeing, to slow down the independant Airbus studies which lead to the A3XX, it looks to have backfired on Boeing.
But that's the benefit of hindsight.
Boeing have made a brave decision to cede the very large capacity market to Airbus, I know some on here won't think that, but it seems to be the case. They must really think that the market is small, too small for two designs anyway. So A380's wins over the 747X, with some big influencial airlines made Boeing's decision inevitable.
Airbus seems to have decided not to compete with the Sonic Cruiser, much too early to see if that is a bad move in the long-run, they may think the same of that market as Boeing does of the high capacity end, room for one only.
A330 is the replacement for the A300, but Airbus have been wobbly with A310 replacement plans, witness the abortive A330-500 proposal.
However, cargo versions of the A300-600 have kept that line going, the UPS order has seen to that.
So both companies have their strengths and weaknesses, Airbus has really come a long way in 30 years, the original target was 30% of the market by 2000. Boeing have their huge experience, and until the A380 enters service, an unmatched product line. They probably have a bigger R & D operation too, and appear to react faster. Worth remembering that Airbus was until recently a group of separate companies, too early to see if the integrated structure will improve on their speed of reaction to market changes.
As for 'problems with the flight-control systems' on Airbus aircraft, both manufacters have their glitches, usually fixed by experience and mods. Not a cover-up, airlines would not tolerate it and Airbuses would be falling out of the sky on a very regular basis if that was the case.
737's are not falling out of the sky all the time with that rudder problem after all.
The recent developments with the A380 and BSC, suggest that there may be a bit less direct competion between A & B in future, with them serving parts of the market in different ways that compliment each other.
But plenty of competion over the rest of the range!

 
RC Pilot
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:45 am

The sidestick

I think it would be kind of neet to use that rather than the flight yoke.

Plus you normaly only have one hand on the yoke most of the time anyway.

I dont really know what real pilots prefer, but on my comp. simulator i have a joystick and a yoke, and i do like the yoke alot better, but its a crappy joysitck

and what if your the captain and your right handed?? lol
 
cba
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:50 am

Boeing747-400, the A380 will not hurt Airbus, but don't be surprised if citizens of the EU see a large tax increase if it fails.
 
GDB
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Cba

Sun Sep 02, 2001 5:06 am

Yeah, we are really wetting ourselves over here waiting for that tax bill.
Airbus is such a drain on our economy.
All those quaint little European nations, with their castles, farms and stuff, and that huge Commie Airbus company leeching them dry.
 
donder10
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 5:10 am

HAHAHAH GDB.....Talking of commies will Bud Selig resign considering how well low payroll teams are doing?
 
donder10
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777-200LR Pilot

Sun Sep 02, 2001 5:14 am

You even admitted in one of youre previous posts that you prefer Boeing.Stop writing such overgeneralised statements with with you have no evidence to back up with.
 
Klaus
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GDB

Sun Sep 02, 2001 5:47 am

GDB: Yeah, we are really wetting ourselves over here waiting for that tax bill. Airbus is such a drain on our economy. All those quaint little European nations, with their castles, farms and stuff, and that huge Commie Airbus company leeching them dry.

Same here on the other side of the channel. Big grin


btw: Congratulations!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 6:26 am

I think Airbus' decision not to use the RB.211-535 or PW2037 engines on the A340 really cost it lots of sales.

Otherwise, the A340 could have cruised as high as Mach 0.85 economically, which could have ensured lots of sales to many airlines.

That was why when Boeing designed the 777 one design goal was the same economic cruise speed as the 747-400.
 
DatamanA340
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Sun Sep 02, 2001 6:35 pm

Airbus made no such a mistake, that made Airbus lose the market. How many years Airbus made such a great sales? It's not more than 10 years. And from that time, Airbus has been getting more and more.

Somehow, what I think Airbus's biggest mistake is no real 300/310 successor.
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 6:20 am

As with the Boeing thread, I must apologize for being late to comment. But, interesting topic none the less.

Airbus' Biggest Mistakes

1) Underestimating the advantages of ETOPS. When Airbus launched the A330/340 Program, they stated it was their belief that a 4-engined aircraft is more economical to operate over distances of 5,000+ nautical miles than a twin. As the 767-200ER/-300ER had proven, and the 777 and its own A330-200 was about to prove, this simply was not true.

2) Limiting the range of the A300/310. With the introduction of the 767-300ER, Boeing had a winner on its hands. However, Airbus already had a decent competitor in its barn, it just lacked sufficient range to truly compete. The reasons for not expanding the role of this program is unclear to me, whether it was technical or philosophical. However, Airbus not only missed a chance to create a good 767 fighter, but also to refresh an aging product line, a decision they are now paying for.

3) Not designing growth into their aircraft. While on the techincal side, Airbus and Boeing build very similar aircraft. Philosophically, however, they have had one major difference. While Boeing has built their base aircraft with the ability to easily grow in the future (737-700 to -800/-900, 757-200 to 757-300, 767-200 to -300 to -400, 777-200 to -300), Airbus had maintained a design goal of optimizing the design for that specific model. The disadvantage of this policy can be seen in the A321 and the A340NG. The A321 suffers from performance shortfalls compared to the base A320, and specifically, to the nearest Boeing competitor at the time of its (A321) launch, the 757. Meanwhile, Airbus has spent considerably more time, money and effort developing the A340NG than Boeing has had to do with the 777LR, while the end result are very comparably aircraft. This philosophy has now changed for perhaps the one aircraft that won't end up needing the growth potential - the A380.

What are NOT mistakes

1) Not designing growth into their aircraft. Can something be and not be a mistake? Absolutely. The same philosophy that stuck Airbus with the A321 and cost them the A340NG, also allowed such aircraft as the A319 and A330-200, two aircraft that are highlights of their respective families. Especially the A330-200, an aircraft that is perhaps the best aircraft Airbus has ever built. They would not enjoy the performance advantages they have now if not for Airbus' policy of designing aircraft for a very specific size, which allows any shrink of that design to be a superb performer. But have they gone too far? I fear the same fate awaits the A318 as that of its trans-Atlantic rival, the 737-600 - too much for too little.

2) Scrapping plans for the A330-500X. IMO, this aircraft would have been a disaster. In much the same way as the A318, this aicraft would have been WAY overbuilt for its intended mission, carrying so much dead weight that it would have had trouble being even marginally economical to operate.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
9V-SVA
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:46 pm

I wouldn't be suprised that the A380 would fail, it would be like the Concorde, where many airlines rushed to buy it but cancelled it later.

If the A380 flops, prepare to see Europe with a lot of debts. Airbus would not close, as the EU would continue their funding, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Airbus mistakes

The A340-200/-300

Airbus made the wrong chioce in selecting the grossly underpowered CFM 56-5 engine, instead of choosing the PW 2040, 2037 or the RB 211-535 engine. The A340-200 was not very successful due to its low payload of around 210 pax and its short fuselage length.

ETOPS

Airbus was proven wrong when they said the A340, with 4 engines was more efficient than the A330/B767 types operating under 180 minutes ETOPS.

Airbus A380

The Airbus A380 was marketed and sold to airlines, but with less than 100 orders, this has proven to be the slowest seller among all the Airbus planes. Airlines are looking for more flights between cities, not one flight a day with the largest aircraft.

9V-SVA  Big thumbs up
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
travellin'man
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:41 pm

Just curious if anyone thinks it's either Airbus' or Boeing's mistake let's say 10 years ago not to have gotten into the sub 100 seat plane market which the Embraers, CRJs and ERJs, RJ-85s, etc. have shown, are quite attractive to the airlines (Northwest, United, United Bizjet etc and others who are ordering these by the droves). Not enough r+d money to go around, not enough profit in it etc.? Or did they underestimate their market share?
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
DatamanA340
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:48 pm

9V-SVA:

Although 380 sells not well as Airbus thought, it's quite well unless several customers cancel orders. It's sold faster than 340 of 10 yrs ago.
 
cfalk
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:38 pm

Airbus' biggest mistake:

Making the floor level in their planes higher than in comparable Boeing products, in order to increase space available for cargo. The result is that if you are more than 5 feet tall, you have to be a contortionist to be able to take a piss in one of their toilets, because of the wall coming in!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
teva
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:53 pm

Nothwest, you say:
" was thinking about this, although it can apply to any other aircraft manufactuer, what have been Airbus's biggest mistakes, that have helped allow Boeing to gain an increased market share. "
You should review mathematics....
30 years ago, Airbus market share was 0. Today, they are close to 50% (they still produce less than Boeing, but this year, they are selling more planes)
Your question should have been "What have been MDD's biggest mistakes, that made them disappear"
Or even "what have been Boeing's biggest mistakes, that allowed Airbus to grow so quickly" (just their arrogance and ignorance in the 70s/80s)
Nana ....
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
 
Guest

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 6:48 pm

Regarding the A340

The A340 is not underpowered. It was ment too be as economical as possible while braking airlines free of ETOPS constraints. Unike Boeing's fuel-guzzling 747 the aircraft is still more attractive to airlines and has generated orders to prove its popularity.

As well, since its engines are smaller, they also generate less noise which make the aircraft more attractive to customers. So until there is an accident related to it allegedly being underpowered, you will actually have something to go on.

Mistakes

1. The A318, too small,too heavy
3. Possibly the A380, if the aviation industry grows at the predicted rate then it will be a sucess. However if fuel prices continue to rise and should the industry go into a depression this may be the plane that makes or breaks airbus. Personaly If I were one of the guys who make the decissions at Airbus HQ(if there is such a place) I would have voted no to the A380 program.

I think Airbus should have stuck to producing current size aircraft instead of investing billons into the development of the A380.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Tue Sep 04, 2001 11:24 pm

I think one fast way to revive A340-300 sales is to prod CFM International into building a 38,000-39,000 lb. thrust version of the CFM56 that is derived from the TECH56 program.

With the higher thrust rating, the A343 could improve its initial climb rate and possibly its economical cruise speed. This would alleviate complaints about the otherwise good airliner airlines like SQ have expressed.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:15 am

Well, hmm where to begin...

Actually most of the airbus' that I have had the privilage to have driven performed adequately, but driving them has always been like taking my Corvette out in the rain. Loads of fun, but it feels like it's always about to "let go", as it were.
Particularly the 343. Under 75% load, OAT about 72f, way under 3kt headwinds and at about sea level (RNWY 25R, LAX), between VR & PRC was one scary ride. The PIC insisted that I maintain a MAXIMUM of 750fpm(+)! At sea level! over my right shoulder, the wings were flexing quite severly. She insisted that that was "perfectly normal, don't worry about a thing, love." As well the AP (even in "full manual" mode would not allow more than 92% throttle (I would love to know why this is). Needless to say, reaching our FL (a modest 330 for that trip) took more than 50 min! Well, the dangers involved aside, being "passed" by 738s, 744s, 762s, and 772s all the way to LHR was enough to make me more than happy to return to my trusty steed the next week (an aging but quite reliable 732). Just thought I'd share that from a driver's point of view.


PS... Yes, that sidestick is a royal pain in the a** to work, no matter what hand you use. I didn't even attempt landing with that (neither did the PIC I noticed, chuckle).
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Adria
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:49 am

I think that Airbus really schould start making plans to built a new aircraft in the 250 seat category.the A330-500 didn't seem interesting by the customers.To built a whole new design isn't a good idea eighter because of the fleet commonality.The A380 is going to be a sucsses in my opinion because Airbus is now the only manufacturer to offer aircrafts from 107-600 and more seats and they still have all the commonality which is so unique and only Airbus can offer this.
 
donder10
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RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:41 am

WN700DRIVER-
you are 21-25 according to your profile.You are based in Baltimore and fly for Southwest.And yet you have flown many of the Airbus fleet. Ummmmm I don;t believe a word.
 
Guest

RE: Donder10

Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:52 am

Maybe he flew for a foreign airline and just moved to BWI with a job at WN? Or possibly he's a 13-15 y.o. pretending to be a grown man?
 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Wed Sep 05, 2001 7:14 am

Further to the comments about the A340 being underpowered, I read on another site recently that the A340 is the most powerful aircraft in the 'Aircraft with 5 APUs category'

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
D L X
Posts: 11698
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Airbus's Biggest Mistake

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:53 pm

"I doubt if 757 will get any really big new orders, so it would be silly for Airbus to chase that market with an all-new aircraft. "

Whoa there, GDB! What do you call the 380? I think there are a lot more orders for 757 class airliners on the horizon than super-747 VLA class airliners. I would also say there's more revenue in 757 class than VLA class to be earned.

This is what I think was Airbus' biggest mistake. In my opinion, the only thing that keeps airlines like US Airways and America West from going all Airbus is that there is no 752/753/762 competitor in the Airbus lineup. US had no choice but to keep the 757/767 mix because of this. Now, some of the 757s and the first 6 767 in the US fleet are beginning to show their age. But without an appropriate replacement, Boeing will probably get a repeat order from them. I understand that the 757 really is a plane for the Americas, but where are Airbus' largest customers? Who have the largest Airbus fleets? That's quite a market to simply let pass.


As for WN700Driver, I'm not totally convinced he's a pilot, but Donder's argument to the contrary doesn't float. You know, Sabenapilot is in the 21-25 age group, and iirc, he flies 330s for a living. I know of a captain for UA that had been flying since about 19. he's 25 or 26 now, and flies 320s. He used to fly 737s. A lot can happen in your life by the time you're 24.

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