AlaskaMVP
Topic Author
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:41 am

Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 2:52 am

Obviously many airlines fly twins (757, 767, 737, etc) to Hawaii. But if you look at http://gc.kls2.com, which shows great circle routes, along with ETOPs restrictions, it indicates that you need 180 minute ETOPs to make it in a twin.

Is that true? I thought 180 minutes ETOPs was difficult to do, do all airlines flying twins to Hawaii meet the 180 minute ETOPS or is there a special exemption?
 
Mark_D.
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 9:55 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:25 am


Yeah I guess so AlaskaMVP, like DL flies 764s and other variants there, I think. Maybe AA and UA as well, not sure (NW and HA still stick with their DC-10s, apparently).

ETOPS-180 not such a big deal now , for the big birds (though of course more expensive). And Boeing even pushing for 207, so Midway island won't have to be supported the way it is, as a Pacific route alternate.

But that`s just for passenger ops. Check out those pics of "I'iwi", HA's new 717s with the extra ferry tanks stuck in for the trip over. I don`t think those were 180-certified, just for the trip over!
 
BBADXB
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 11:13 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:01 am

Hello all!

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's ETOPS?
...and what's O&D?

Thanks,

regards, BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:06 am

ETOPS - Extended Twin-engine OPerationS

It basically means that a two-engined plane can fly over a big mass over water. It was originally meant for trans-Atlantic flights.
 
Boeingfan
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 1:47 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:11 am

O & D

Origination point (airport) and destination (airport)
 
BBADXB
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 11:13 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:12 am


Thanks, Hypermike.

Cheers,
BBADXB  Wink/being sarcastic
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 1:55 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:04 pm

Don't forget Aloha's 737-700s that fly to Seattle and Oakland; they have 180 min ETOPS as well.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
Guest

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:35 pm

Aloha 737-700!!!  Wink/being sarcastic

'nuff said.
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 9:36 pm

NW legally could not fly their 757s to Hawaii. Not until they achieve ETOPS certification.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 9:52 pm

twin planes flown to HNL/OGG/KOA

AQ - 737-700
TW- 767-300/757-200er
AA - 767-300(er)
DL - 767-400
UA - 767/757/777
CO - 737-800 (under CO Micro.)
Air Fiji 737-800
HA - 767-300 (coming soon)
Most Asian carriers use 747-400s or DC-10s
CO/NW use DC-10s/747s(NW on Asian Routes)
UA flies 747s (again asian routes)

Just a small correction, AQ flies to Orange County (SNA), Las Vegas, and Oakland.

To answer the other question. All ETOPS operators need a certificate to fly 180 min ETOPS. AQ went through the process, and HA is currently going through the process. It's not that it cannot be done in a HA 767, it's that there must be a paper trail. HA requested to do "out of the box" 180 min ETOPS with their new 767s. That's great! the only problem is that there is no way to prove on a paper trail that HA has done ETOPS. It's really small things like parts, maintenance, and dispatch, not just crews.

Midway does have scheduled AQ 737 serivce....If you ever want a very expensive fishing trip (though you can catch some AWESOME marine life), You can fly to midway and not have to deal with the 4 million other people in Honolulu.
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 9:57 pm

Don't forget TZ's 757 service from MDW via PHX.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
hnl-jack
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 10:34 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 11:33 pm

Just a couple additions,
Korean: B-777-300
American: B-757-200
Air New Zealand: B-767-200
Air Canada: B-767-200
Canada 3000: A-330
 
AC_A340
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 11:42 pm

Sort of off topic, but what is the highest ETOPS rating an aircraft can have?
 
Buff
Posts: 1066
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:29 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:28 am

207 minutes - B777. Canada 3000 also has 180 minute ETOPS (uninterrupted for many years) for the B757, in addition to the A330's.

Best Regards,

Buff
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:16 am

ETOPS:

Engines Turn Or People Swim! lol
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
AC826
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 2:31 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:22 am

WHy do airlines have to get their ETOPS certificate themselves? Isn't it supposed to be Boeing who needs to get the cert?. I just don't get it~
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:07 am

Thanks for the additions!

Boeing builds airplanes, not airlines.

Boeing actually builds airframes. They don't build engines they install what the customer choses. They don't fly airlplanes in revenue service (just research).

All Boeing can do is build an airplane to a certain specification. Say the airline wants an ETOPS aircraft. Boeing will build the plane to that level then deliver the plane to the customer. It is now the customers responsibility to maintain that plane. Dispatch, maintenance, pilots, flight attendants.

Boeing can install an area for a liftraft in the overhead bins, but it is the airline who is responsible to make sure that life raft is in its place before each flight.

If you don't really understand, read Airframe by Michael Crichton. It gives a great account of an airframe manufacturer that parallels McDonnell Douglas (or so it is rumored).

does that help?
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:09 am

Boeing nut: That's problably the correct meaning for it, LOL

Mlsrar: Who's TZ? I live by MDW (assuming you're talking about Chicago Midway) and the only 757s I see there are ATA's and National's.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:12 am

TZ is American Trans Air's ICAO code.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:25 pm

Thanks  Big thumbs up
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
ha2vegas
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:43 pm

Someone else posted this a while ago...I got a kick out of it:

E T O P S = Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim.

 Laugh out loud
 
WillL
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 2:39 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:16 pm

also Qantas fly the 767-300 to HNL from Sydney
 
Notar520AC
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:20 pm

Ya know, Hawaiian just started a 717 route to the islands!
BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
 
WillL
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 2:39 pm

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 2:20 pm

also Qantas fly the 767-300 to HNL from Sydney
 
lahaina
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:51 am

RE: Twins Fly ETOPs To Hawaii?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 6:38 pm

Air New Zealand flies 767-300 ERs to HNL, not 767-200ERs. HA flies the B717 interisland only.