englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

What Next For Bmi?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 7:56 am

As the longhaul routes grow over the next few years, what will BD do? They have a very large amount of routes that they've received permission to fly from MAN and London, but what will they do next?

Expand from MAN-
PROS:
*Many US or even Asian routes could be started up, with no competition.
*Slots are less of a problem than in London

CONS:
*Serve few European destinations from MAN, and so most pax will be O&D.
*Less demand for premium classes than from London.
*Many routes to the US have been tried in the past (by other airlines) and failed.


Start services from London Gatwick/LGW
PROS:
*bmi have right to several US destinations from LGW. These could be served as soon as new a/c arrive, as Bermuda 2 is not an issue from LGW.
*Higher number of pax/premium pax than MAN.
*BM Handling already operates at LGW.

CONS:
*bmi has NO shorthaul flights from LGW, so ALL pax would have to be O&D if they want to travel to their final destination with BD.
*No strong Star pressence.

Start non-US longhauls from London Heathrow/LHR
PROS:
*High demand to many destinations.
*Strong Star pressence.
*Pax can easily connect from a BD shorthaul flight to a longhaul BD flight (or other way round). Large number of European destinations means pax can connect with BD to many other cities.

CONS:
*Not many slots (BD could use existing shorthaul ones though).
*Feirce competition.
________________________________________

*If BD did start longhauls from London, is it likely that A332 options would be changed to A333 for flights to the US east coast from LGW or Canada from LHR, thus providing more capasity?
Or even A340s if LHR L/H began to non-US cities?

*If A340s do join the fleet, would bmi opt for second hand/new 300s or order the larger capasity 600?

Thanks for your opinions on what bmi british midland will do in the near future....

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Guest

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:45 am

What's Next for bmi?

Order more aircraft is pretty urgent to bmi, IMO.
 
crewrest
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 12:14 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:22 pm

I heard HKG from LHR
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Tue Sep 04, 2001 4:53 pm

Maybe it needs 345. And even it stays in MAN, it can serve several Asian routes like Bangkok, Singapore or Hong Kong. I think it's better to let LHR be arena where BA and VS fight each other and expand in MAN.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:00 am

i do agree. i think bmi should firstly expand MAN as a viable longhaul hub, and if bermuda II is dropped and bmi eventually is allowed to fly LHR/USA services they could give it a try, but not only with transatlantic flights.
if that would fail, they´d still have their succesful longhaul ops at MAN...

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
BA DC-10
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:40 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:14 am

Problems are that east coast services from MAn were tried by BA and were unsuccessful. SQ and Cathay both fly from MAN, so I would doubt BMI would be able to fill a 343 or 345 to SIN or HGK, especially seeing as the inflight services of these airlines are better than BMI.

Maybe BMI could start services from LHR, but, I wouldn;t hold ur breath they would ever be successful...due to the enormous amounts of competition, most of which in quality is comparable to BMI...the problem with BMI, is its inflight is nice...not fabulous or special...theres no reason why you should fly BMI as compared to anyone else...unlike BA, who can say 'fly us in Business Class, and u will get a flat bed'

Gatwick could also be ok, but remember, both BA and Virgin fly longhaul routes from here, and there are NO domestic BMI connections to Gatwick, unlike BA............

Basically, I'm not sure how much BMI, can expand, though I do think if they're gonna expand soon they need 2 order aircraft NOW! LOL!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:41 am

What's next? The EU courts to get rid of Bermuda II for bmi and Singapore Airlines!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
BA DC-10
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:40 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 12:46 am

Singapore Airlines flying from LHR to North America! LOL! Thats gonna be about as successful as highland express...why would people fly an Asian Airline from the UK to North America, thats more expensive, and offers only comparative services to airlines already serving the routes?
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:04 am

there is more chance of hell freezing over than the british government letting singapore air in and the EU courts wont be as easy as you think.

this was a topic on bmi NOT singapore airlines so i would appericate it if we didnt have to mention them again.

what about bmi flying from stansted, bA or virgin dont fly from their, its expanding, it has good transport links and only cO fly to the us from there.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
BA DC-10
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:40 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 1:14 am

Thats a great idea acually...Stansted is developing well...maybe BMI should avoid London and stick with regionals...MAN, BHX?
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 3:45 am

Why would they fly from STN? Firstly, they have only limited operations on behalf of LH from there and I hear that the STN-HAM service they operate is to be pulled. Secondly, transfer traffic from Ryanair would be non-existent as I think they don't have an interlining agreement.


bmi will take delivery of their 3rd A330 Octoberish and then the one operated by SAS by Spring next year (could be the other way round). They also have 8 options on more A330s.

They have already stated that the short-term long-haul expansion will take place at LHR (not necessarily the USA routes which they are licensed for) and that further MAN-USA routes would be in a more advantageous position once they have begun operating from LHR due to an increased profile. Notwithstanding that, they are still thought to be introducing CDG, BOH and BFS services at MAN over the next year to help feed their long-haul services.

As for MAN-LAX operations, we only have BA's word that they were unsuccessful. I believe that one day the truth will emerge about that service (and their other regional long-haul services) with them admitting that they increased the fringe benefits (such as double or triple Air Miles) for passengers outside London to fly from London.


And just for Go Canada's benefit:

Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines Singapore Airlines
If they got 5th freedom from LHR, their prices may be lower than any of the incumbants. I'm sure that Air India are the cheapest to the USA from LHR.

Actually, CX have stopped flying to MAN for the time being to due "future world recession" and that fewer passengers were travelling on the service. However, once brains are inserted in the CX directors, they will begin up to 5 weekly non-stop A340s from July 2002 and hence have a better opportunity of making money due to a perceived better product i.e non-stop is better than one-stop.

David/MAN: 324 and counting
 
fax
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 7:55 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:51 am

Allegedly bmi are looking at SFO from MAN. A West Coast service would certainly compliment Washington and Chicago.

As for BA - Londoncentric Airlines, is it any wonder LAX failed with them, any interline opertunity is just put through Heathrow. I hope that place is crippled by BA's incapacity to recognise the regions.

In addition, it cracks me up that people think us northerners are skint and won't fork out as premium punters. Give us a decent service and we will!!

For the southerners among you, check out the demographics on LHR flights and you will see that us in the north make your services viable on a good proportion of routes!
 
BA-747
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:20 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:25 am

i think bmi should expand to the north of england and scotland for instance bmi could fly transatlantic routes from man and let cx and sq to have the asian routes and is sq not pulling out of man?? anywayz they can cancentrate on u.s routes chicago washington miami l.a san francisco etc etc from man and they could even do routes to ummm south africa and routes not served by man. and from glasgow they could do an asian route ie hong kong or whatever and continue with the american theme washington L.A which could be seasonal and they could do a chicago route off season when AA stops their chicago service and they are taking over air canadas toronto service so theyll have that also. And only if their uick enough they could do a dubai service before emirates gets into glasgow bmi could have most of the market but these are jus ideas what u think and expand on my ideas.
 
BA-747
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:20 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:33 am

i think bmi should expand to the north of england and scotland for instance bmi could fly transatlantic routes from man and let cx and sq to have the asian routes and is sq not pulling out of man?? anywayz they can cancentrate on u.s routes chicago washington miami l.a san francisco etc etc from man and they could even do routes to ummm south africa and routes not served by man. and from glasgow they could do an asian route ie hong kong or whatever and continue with the american theme washington L.A which could be seasonal and they could do a chicago route off season when AA stops their chicago service and they are taking over air canadas toronto service so theyll have that also. And only if their uick enough they could do a dubai service before emirates gets into glasgow bmi could have most of the market but these are jus ideas what u think and expand on my ideas.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 5:36 am

David_itl: Great! hhahah

Anyway, it would be great to see bmi BD compete on the BA routes. However I pose you this question solemnly, why didn't they think of Business Class beds? What a waste!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:06 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 7:19 am

I think BMI should expand their ops from Manchester, introducing firstly a few more US routes, then possibly Asian route's, building Manchester into a REAL alternative to London Airports. It seems a bit strange that the UK only has London as its main entry point when half the population live north of Birmingham, plus,northern England and Scotland are what many visitors to the UK come to see. The local population would also rather use a closer airport, whist I know that it is unrealistic for all regional airports to start long haul ops, it does seem to make sense to have a Northern Hub Airport, aswell as those in London. We are always hearing of congestion at Heathrow, so why don't more airlines begin to use other airports! Manchester is the biggest airport outside London in the UK so it makes sense to start introducing a wider range of long haul flights from there. Hopefully this is what BMI has seen and will increase both its short and long haul ops at MAN in the coming years. BA has Heathrow as its main hub so I doubt they will ever expand much at Manchester.


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DEM
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 11:00 am

I agree with demoose, I think bmi has the perfect place to make an all-new hub with MAN. Maybe add SFO-MAN, YYZ-MAN, JFK-MAN, BOS-MAN, MIA-MAN, LAX-MAN, and one or two others, and then possibly add some route to London, but put the focus on MAN.
a.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:25 pm

Thanks for your interesting opinions.

David_itl
bmi will take delivery of their 3rd A330 Octoberish and then the one operated by SAS by Spring next year (could be the other way round). They also have 8 options on more A330s.

October as in next month, October? I thought it was ages away! Surely a new destination should be announced soon if the next A332 is arriving in 2001.

Cheers.


 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:38 pm

BD should start flying to Canada. I can definately see BD doing a MAN-YVR and a MAN-YYZ route.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
BA-747
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:20 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Wed Sep 05, 2001 8:40 pm

they are gonna fly to canada from manchester glasgow and edinburgh and maybe couple other airports but this is takin over air canadas service
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Thu Sep 06, 2001 1:18 am

So, does anyone know when the next A332 will be delivered, or anything more on the rumour that some of the 8 A332 options may be converted to A340s?

These are the long haul routes from LHR that BD has the rights to at the momment. Some are VERY odd, and will never be operated, but some definatly have the potential to be served one day soon....

-BOGOTA (Colombia)
-BUENOS AIRES (Argentina)
-CARACAS (Venezuela)
-GUATEMALA CITY (Guatemala)
-HAVANA (Cuba)
-PANAMA CITY (Panama)
-RIO DE JANEIRO (Brazil)
-MELBOURNE (Australia)
-SYDNEY (Australia)
-AUCKLAND (New Zealand)
-BANGKOK (Thailand)
-SINGAPORE (Singapore)
-HALIFAX (Canada)
-CALGARY (Canada)
-ST JOHNS (Canada)
-OTTAWA (Canada)

I think they might even take a stab at Australia. Since VS announced last week that they plan to serve Oz with in the next few years, I think BD might try to get in there 1st. Plus they have their Star partners Ansett in Austrailia and SIA in Singapore (a possible tech stop city). What does everyone else think? Does Oz feature in Midland's future?

Rio could also be a possibility with Brazil's growing popularity as a holiday and business destination in the United Kingdom, and with Star partner Varig there.

I think AC serves LHR from all of the Canadian cities above, and I doubt there's enough demand for 2 operators on those routes. (correct me if I'm wrong!).



 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Thu Sep 06, 2001 2:45 am

well, before bmi takes off to Rio, they go for Sao Paulo which is brazil´s biggest city and where the biggest business market is.
however, the next destinations for bmi i would guess would be SFO and YYZ...

i highly doubt bmi would venture to australia within the next years. i´m pretty sure SIA wouldn´t like as they would certainly prefer VS...

daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Thu Sep 06, 2001 7:11 am

So does anyone know when the next A332 arrives.......?!!!!
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Thu Sep 06, 2001 6:50 pm

Does ANYONE know when

a) the month that the next A332 is sheduled to be delivered in, by Airbus?

b) the month that SAS hands the leased A332 back to BD?

PLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE?!?!?!!!!!!
 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1063
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Thu Sep 06, 2001 9:46 pm

Next A330 is G-WWBA (msn 455) due, best I can recall, in Feb-02. G-WWBD is on a one year lease to Scando and is currently due back at the end of Apr-02.

Andy

I predict the next major A330 route for BMI will probably be EMA-MAN to connect the two hubs!  Acting devilish [NOT]
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: What Next For Bmi?

Fri Sep 07, 2001 12:59 am

woohoo! someone answered!

Cheers Andy.

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